Cranberry Sauce

by The Cheat on Nov 24, 2005 9:29 PM CST in News Comment 15 comments

The universal reaction to the Thome trade in Chicago has overwhelming positive. It appears that Kenny Williams is now the unquestioned god of baseball GMs, or at least he is to Chicago's baseball scribes.

[Phil Arvia -- Daily Southtown]

Williams, no doubt, is gambling the returns will be higher. After last season, who are we to bet against him?

[Barry Rozner -- Daily Herald]

Eleven months ago, we told you to have a good cry over Carlos Lee and then get over it, because the Sox were trying to win, not make friends.

Today, we offer you the same advice.

Remember fondly Aaron Rowand for his solid contributions to a World Series-winning team, wish him well and then move on, because Kenny Williams isn't going to bring back the same team.

[Phil Rogers -- Chicago Tribune]

Jim Thome's a risk, you're darn right he is. But he's also a player with tremendous integrity and a guy with enough brute strength to hit home runs through the early-season (or even October) cold at U.S. Cellular Field.

[...]

The biggest compliment of all for Rowand should be that he will be missed.

[Mike Downey -- Chicago Tribune]

I don't know about you, but I admire guts.

And guts is what it took for the White Sox to part ways Wednesday with one of their most valuable players, Aaron Rowand, 28 days after the World Series.

Even Chicago's favorite Windsock (You know where to find him.) was complimentary of the deal. * * * * *

On the rumor front, The Sox just can't seem to shake the name Juan Pierre. [Daily SouthTown]
The Sox are also one of several teams who have contacted Tampa Bay in regards to speedy outfielder Joey Gathright. [St. Petersburg Times]
The Twins are said to be in talks with former White Sox DH Carl Everett and former Red Sox 3B Bill Mueller [USA Today]
The Brewers have no intentions to trade Lyle Overbay this off-season. [USA Today]

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I didn't read all

of them but the ones I read did not say word one about the prospects given up. Not a peep. Rowand, Thome, money. Great deal. KW's not sitting on his hands. Blah blah blah. I also think KW wanted to swap Rowand's 3 mill salary for Anderson's much smaller one or he's going to go after Pierre.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Nov 24, 2005 11:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I still regret...

Losing Gio Gonzalez. If the Sox offered Rowand/Haigwood/Gonzalez to Florida, isn't that a similar to better offer than the Mets one? Or, was Kenny more interested in Delgado, caught (to an extent) "napping", and then had to make sure he got one of them by pulling the trigger ASAP?

Thoughts?

by CWSKeith on Nov 25, 2005 12:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Mets just included

a third prospect in their deal...

and Boston just added 2 more prospects for Guillermo Mota

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 25, 2005 12:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

as i commented under another post

i think this might be something that gave KW some pause:

Delgado will have the contractual right to demand a trade after the 2006 season. If the club is unable to fulfill that request, Delgado automatically becomes a free agent again in 2007. While the Mets find it hard to believe the slugger would walk away from the $32 million he'd be owed in 2007 and 2008, one Mets official planned to speak directly to Delgado by the end of the day.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=klapisch_bob&id=2235021

we know thome wants to play in chicago - he waived his no trade. maybe delgado doesn't feel the same way. i wouldn't want a guy on my team who has the ability to demand a trade if he's unhappy, that's huge leverage. could be damn unsettling to our clubhouse. we know thome is a quality clubhouse guy.

by larry on Nov 25, 2005 1:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

payroll flexibility

Keep in mind that Delgado will cost the Mets almost twice as much as the Sox will pay Thome.

Raises to the arbitration-eligible players and almost $14 million per year for Delgado would have put the Sox current payroll over $80 million. That makes it tougher to re-sign Konerko (or acquire another 1B/DH bat), sign Garland long-term, or make any other upgrades.

by Jon on Nov 25, 2005 2:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trib explains why no Delgado

Today's trib commented that Kenny Williams refuses to deal with Delgado due to some incident in the past. It seems he refused to come to Chicago before.

by jimgstl on Nov 25, 2005 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pierre

I love Juan Pierre, but I just don't understand why we would trade for him. Defensively he is average at best. Sometimes you have to trust in you young guys, and that is what Williams is going to have to do with Anderson.

AIM: shaftr01

blog

by shaftr on Nov 25, 2005 12:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

becasue

1) No way is Florida eating Delgado's salary. Getting
Thome at 8-9 mill is really what KW was after.

I firmly believe Rowand was traded to lower the payroll at that postion.
Pierre can be had for prospects and cash and represents the #2 hiter with speed Ozzie asked for.

4)The Sox have the young gloves to use in the late innings when defence is important.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Nov 25, 2005 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thome Comps

Here are the Top 5 comparable comps to Thome through age 34 and their next 3 years.

1.
Age 35: 98 games / .252/.377/.444/ 107 OPS+ / 15 hrs
Age 36: 76 games / .258/.366/.477/ 118 OPS+ / 16 hrs
Age 37: Out of the League

2.
Age 35: 158 games .277.375/.532/ 149 OPS+ / 33 hrs
Age 36: 160 games / .290/.390/.547/ 152 OPS+ / 37 hrs >MVP
Age 37: 147 games / .293/.388/.548/ 142 OPS+ / 35 hrs

3.
Age 35: 147 games / .254/.386/.464/ 138 OPS+ / 28 hrs
Age 36: 139 games / .231/.367/.450/ 138 OPS+ / 26 hrs
Age 37: 69 games / .242/.352/.347/ 95 OPS+ / 5 hrs

4.
Age 35: 94 games .237.330/.428/ 119 OPS+ / 15 hrs
Age 36: 153 games .275.375/.532/ 147 OPS+ / 39 hrs
Age 37: 116 games .194.290/.340/ 74 OPS+ / 14 hrs

5.
Age 35: 1 game / .000/.000/.000/-100 OPS+/0 hrs
Age 36-37: ?

The above players:

Juan Gonzalez
Mike Schmidt
Harmon Killebrew
Reggie Jackson
Juan Gonzalez (if you hadn't guessed)

AIM: shaftr01

blog

by shaftr on Nov 25, 2005 1:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

FUCK

1. Jose Conseco
not Juan Gonzalez.

AIM: shaftr01

blog

by shaftr on Nov 25, 2005 1:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's hope...

He's Mike Schmidt reincarnated. We could use two years of a 140 (or more) OPS+ from Thome. Primarily, though, he needs to produce in '06.

Will it help that Thome won't be relied upon as such an important defensive position? I assume he'll be switching off between first and DH.

I brought this up over at BTF, so I'll throw it out here. A clever idea for the Sox would be to sign Eduardo Perez to platoon at 1B with Ross Gload.

Was Thome brought here to be our everyday firstbaseman or our DH? Or, is that question to be determined yet?

by CWSKeith on Nov 25, 2005 2:07 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You know Kenny's made it...

...when he trades a high-character, high-effort, big-chemistry guy and gets lauded for it.

In every other city, he would be chastised for such a move. In Los Angeles, he'd be burned at the stake.

by Sox Machine on Nov 25, 2005 11:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

USA Today wrong?

Reports are that Milwaukee offered Lyle Overbay to the Blue Jays for Dustin McGowan. Jays turned it down.

The trade doesn't seem sensible, but if I see Overbay flipped in some deal like this, I will be angry.

AIM: i2ockbotm

by 3E8 on Nov 27, 2005 1:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Comparables?

SHAFTR, those comparables are from baseball-reference, correct? Some would prefer looking at the PECOTA comparables from baseballprospectus (see the hard copy of 2002 BPro for an explanation of these, and how they differ from Bill James' Similarity Scores, which are aped at baseball-reference).

For Thome entering 2005, his comps were Willie McCovey 1972, Mark McGwire 1998, Harmon Killebrew 1971, Boog Powell 1976, and Reggie Jackson 1981.

I will be interested to see who his 2006 comparables are, when next year's data are released in a few weeks. Keep in mind that Thome's "similarity index" is only 19, which means that a player of his type isn't very common in baseball history. Contrast this to someone like Crede, who is a 63 -- guys like him are a dime a dozen (and thus, easier to project).

-Tybor

by Tybor on Nov 27, 2005 8:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

El Duque's Value

All the talk so far has been that any team trading with us will want young pitching, i.e. Brandon McCarthy. Where does that leave El Duque's value, espcially at his price? Are we gonna be stuck with him next year?

Turning the Chicago Baseball Tide - One Championship at a Time

by WestSideSoxFan on Nov 30, 2005 10:38 AM CST reply actions 0 recs