Konerko returns to Sox

by The Cheat on Nov 30, 2005 3:19 PM CST in White Sox News

A week ago, the Sox traded for Jim Thome, and I felt more confident than ever that the Sox would resign Konerko.

Last weekend, with news on the Konerko front coming in at merely a trickle, Kenny Williams issued a deadline for Konerko's signing.

Last night, Konerko rejected a 5yr/$65M offer from the Orioles, and I said he would be signing by the end of the week.

Today, Konerko signed a 5yr/$60M deal with the White Sox.

* * * * *

My initial reaction is that I'm happy Pauly is back. I may not like Konerko's Kontract at the end of the deal, but for the next Kouple of years he's going to be worth every penny to the White Sox.

What are your thoughts?

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Well

I kouldn't komment better myself.

by the wolf on Nov 30, 2005 3:27 PM CST reply actions

Tolerable (re-posted from below)

I'm ok with this but only just. Most of the guys comparable to Konerko (Hrbek, Jason Thompson, Kluszewski, etc.) were useless by the time they were 35 and I don't see Pauley having the late career that guys like McGriff or Delgado have had. In 2009-10, this is likely going to be a very bad contract that will probably kill our chances of competing. But, with the Thome deal and the way our payroll explodes in 2007, 2006 is the best chance we have in the forseeable future anyway so we're paying a premium in the future to maximize our chances of hitting our window now. That's defensible. Hell, maybe MLB will just continue to grow profitability and we'll see salaries rise dramatically so that even a deteriorated, $12 mm, 34-year old Konerko will be tolerable.

FWIW, a few days ago I wrote "Assuming I'm reading all this correctly, it comes down to Konerko's gut desire to stay here. I think his agent is probably correct that he can maximize his money by waiting and letting teams drive up the bidding. (It worked brilliantly for Ordonez last year.) But I think Konerko would like to stay here if he thinks he's getting comparable value. So, in early December, he's going to have to decide whether he wants to be comfortable and rich or less comfortable and more rich." If you read between the lines of the agent's comments in the ESPN story, he's pretty clearly saying that Konerko could have held out for more money but decided not to because he's happy here.

Well, I hope it works out. Pauley is one of our guys and I'll be happy to see him back. Of course, I'll be happier if it turns out he holds value until he's 35.

by Landfill on Nov 30, 2005 3:43 PM CST reply actions

Player Value

[Baseball Musings]

Paul Konerko turned down an offer from the Orioles of 5 years, $65 million dollars. That's pretty good money for a first baseman with a .349 career OBA and a .488 career slugging percentage. Just to show you how much salaries have risen, the article points out the following:

The Orioles' initial offer to Konerko - made earlier this month - was four years for $50 million, before they countered with the five-year deal for $65 million yesterday. Coincidentally, those are the exact terms of Albert Belle's contract when he signed with the Orioles before the 1999 season.

At the time, Albert had a career .368 OBA and a .571 slugging percentage.

It's certainly not out of the question that you could move Konerko at the end of his contract (maybe eating part of it ala Thome) and be able to dump him on a low budget franchise.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 30, 2005 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

I am so glad this went down.

I have heard some rumors that the Sox might/Kould sign CF Johnny Damon. This would be a geat pick-up IMO. I know he will be pricey, but honestly, wouldn't that be the last thing we really need to do for the next 5 months? If we kould get Johnny Damon, it would bring us a speedy #2 hitter, and a great player. We kould then send Brian Anderson to the bench. He kould play off the bench whenever we may need a pinch-hitter or if a guy needs a break. He would be the Everett type role when Thomas was healthy.

AIM: JoeCoolMan24 www.2ksports.com/forums Thats where i spend most of my day

by JoeCoolMan24 on Nov 30, 2005 3:59 PM CST reply actions

I don't think that will happen...

The Sox avoid Boras (Damon's agent) whenever possible. And I think that's a good thing here. Damon wants a 7 year deal, and even if he dropped his demand to 4 I don't think it would be a great signing. He looked not good at the end of last year (bad shoulder?) and he'd want more money than Konerko.

I'd really rather see Anderson than either Damon or Pierre. Playing one rookie shouldn't kill their chances of competing.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 30, 2005 4:10 PM CST up reply actions

it is important to point out

that both World Series teams last year had rookies as starters for the majority of the year.

AIM: shaftr01

blog

by shaftr on Nov 30, 2005 4:18 PM CST up reply actions

Mixed reaction

It's not what I would have done as GM, but then again I've never won a WS. Or even had a roto team...Mostly, it's just sad that Frank Thomas is done as a White Sox.

Anyway, if Konerko can keep a .900 OPS the next couple of years, the money probably isn't terrible. Who knows what the MLB economy will be like in 3 years -- predicting is very hard, esepecially about the future. But it's conceivable it will still go up, making the money more tolerable. And I think we've seen that bad contracts can be moved if the team swallows some money. The last few years of the contract are a negative, but shouldn't be crippling.

Bottom line is that the 3/5 of the Sox starting pitching will be gone pretty soon, next year may be their best chance to compete into October for a while. It's not a bad signing

by hitlesswonder on Nov 30, 2005 4:03 PM CST reply actions

You're right

predicitng the past is a lot easier.

AIM: ozspengler

by spengler on Nov 30, 2005 4:49 PM CST up reply actions

"Prediction is very difficult..."

I thought Yogi Berra had said it, but it turns out it was actually Niels Bohr:

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/n/nielsbohr130288.html

Well, who knows, maybe he played ball, too.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 30, 2005 5:30 PM CST up reply actions

funny

sounds like yogi

AIM: ozspengler

by spengler on Nov 30, 2005 9:57 PM CST up reply actions

Payroll

The team you see now is essentially the final team. Payroll dictates that. The Sox are presently at about $75 million in committed salary for next year (assuming Paulie is getting $12 million in '06).

This doesn't include the salaries that Garland, Crede and AJ will get in arb or the 1 mill we're gonna waste on TIMO. It also doesn't include Cotts, Jenks, McCarthy and Anderson's salary. I would estimate those contracts will be anywhere from $12-$15 million total (depending on whether we sign Garland and AJ to long term deals). That puts us at $87-90 million for '06. I think we're maxed out gentlemen.

'07 should be interesting. We will have Jermaine, Iguchi, Contreras, Pods, Politte, Hermanson coming off the books. Maybe Garland and AJ too depending on what we do now. I'm in favor of signing Garland to one of those 3/21 contracts now.

by bhoov on Nov 30, 2005 4:44 PM CST reply actions

Well...

... i would expect us to pick up dye's 2007 option if he repeats what he did last year or better. It is team option for 2007 worth 6 million or a 1.15 million buyout. Iguchi will have an option for three million and podsednik will be arbitration eligible.

by QWERTwithaY on Nov 30, 2005 5:31 PM CST up reply actions

Re: Payroll

I think you're about right. Here's the roster as of now with estimates in brackets:

Konerko    12.0
Garcia    10.0
Contreras 8.0
Thome    8.0
Buehrle    7.75
Garland    (7.0)
Dye    5.0
Hernandez 4.5
Pierzynski (4.5)
Uribe    3.15
Hermanson 3.0
Iguchi    2.4
Marte    2.25
Crede    (2.0)
Vizcaino (1.5)
Politte    1.2
Widger    0.5
Ozuna    0.5
Cotts    0.4
Harris    (0.5)
Jenks    0.33
McCarthy 0.33
Anderson 0.33
Gload?    0.4
Perez? (1.0)
Buyouts    4.0
TOTAL    90.5

If you assume Timo as the waste-of-space back-up OF for $1 mm, we're at $90.5 mm which is more than I would have ever expect the Sox to spend.

Note that this particular roster doesn't make much sense since we're carrying 12 pitchers. El Duque, for all his heroics, really doesn't belong on this team. We don't need a long reliever or swing starter and, even if we did, $4.5 mm is too much for us to pay. I'd like to see Williams trade Hernandez and Vizcaino. In a market where Scott Eyre becomes a millionaire, those guys should have some value. Replace Vizcaino with Bajenaru. Use Borchard to replace Timo as the back-up OF (what does Timo do better than Joe other than make weak contact and speak Spanish?). If/when Borchard fails, maybe Owens is ready. That would take our payroll down to about $85 mm. Sign a utility infielder who can really play 3B. Someone like Geoff Blum but without that annoying tendency to hit extra-inning homeruns.

Finally, while I wouldn't mind locking up Garland for three years, what I really want is to extend Buehrle right now. Of all the Sox pitchers, he is the one who is going to have the best career and he's the one I want wearing the black pinstripes for his entire career. Strike the deal with Buehrle now. Trade Garland or Garcia later.

by Landfill on Nov 30, 2005 5:34 PM CST up reply actions

Timo?

you seem to be forgetting the "veteran presence" timo brings to the team.

by larry on Nov 30, 2005 5:46 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah

did you know that Timo was the only Sox position player not to record a Run or RBI in the playoffs? At least he's clutch.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 30, 2005 5:56 PM CST up reply actions

yeah

he was also present for all the playoff games, as far as i can tell. that seems to be what he was paid for. remember, it's the intangibles.

by larry on Nov 30, 2005 6:15 PM CST up reply actions

Just heard Rick Hahn on the radio

during lunch. The Sox payroll is presently in the upper 60's, and they expect it to rise into the upper 80's once all is said and done.

by chrome on Dec 1, 2005 1:13 PM CST up reply actions

Glad to have Paulie back

If for no other reason than I got his bobblehead at a game a couple of years ago <g>. Seriously, the money makes my stomach tighten, but hopefully it gives us a strong and balanced lineup, at least as lefty/rightie goes.

Hopefully this leaves Brian N. Anderson as the starter in center--I'll take him hands down over Damon.

You will find me on the berm at Tucson Electric Park, soaking up the sun and drinking an ice cold refreshment, on March 1 at 1:05 MST to see the Sox kick off what I think will really be a fun ride.

by swsox on Nov 30, 2005 6:45 PM CST reply actions

While it seems like thin ice...

...a 5-year deal is what it took to keep Paulie here for his prime. In the next 3 years he will be the best 1B in the AL and the Sox could win a couple more pennants and maybe another World Series. In years 4-5 we'll no longer be the "small market" team just trying to survive. We'd own this town outright and be a destination for future free agents. Rather than envisioning this franchise turned on it head from this contract, let's try to envision the baseball world turned on its head as the Sox become the team of the decade, and land a sorely needed spot in the psyche of our national pastime.

Turning the Chicago Baseball Tide - One Championship at a Time

by WestSideSoxFan on Nov 30, 2005 8:32 PM CST reply actions

Mark Teixeira

says hello.

AIM: i2ockbotm

by 3E8 on Nov 30, 2005 8:40 PM CST up reply actions

was worth 5 mil

not to have to sit next to sammy.

by fredde on Nov 30, 2005 9:07 PM CST reply actions

Zero sum game?

I am not convinced by some of the analyses of the meaning of the contract that I see here.

It's not that I know better--I don't.

It's just that, in baseball, payrolls are not zero sum games. It's not like the NFL.

If you look at Paulie's contract in comparison with the Sox payrolls of the last couple of decades, it sure tightens things up.

But remember that, for the last couple of decades, the Sox have drawn poorly and commanded poor broadcasting ratings.

Those things are variables. They are not static numbers.

Now, the Sox play in a major media market and a huge city. They have played second fiddle to the Cubs, but that COULD change.

Will it?

Well, the conventional wisdom is that one World Series won't make Chicago a Sox town. I don't live there any more and, though I remember when the two teams were much more level, I will accept that CW as true. Let's assume that the Sox attendance will climb some next year but they still won't own the baseball revenue stream in the city.

Yet.

And let's assume that, if they fade away after one title their attendance and broadcasting revenues won't be all that much greater than what they are used to.

But what if they play deep into October for the next 3 years? Then what?

If they do that, then, as a major market team, they could see substantial increases in attendance and broadcasting revenue. They are, after all, shown on a nation-wide cable TV system!

3 straight years of playoffs and playoff success will change the town and the income stream.

And if that happens, then the Sox would enter the zone maintained by NY, Boston, and Atl, a zone in which you rebuild on the fly by making aggressive deals. In that zone, one contract like Paulie's will be far from a crippling set of numbers.

So, to me, the question is simple: can we keep this going, consolidate what we have built, and play consistently on those levels?

If we can't, if we slip back, Paulie's contract may constrict us for a couple of years.

But if we keep playing it like a top-level club, I think the Sox economic situation in Chicago has enough potential upside to keep up with the rules of the game played at that level.

Which is what Kenny is thinking. He is playing not only for the window that we have for 1-2 years, but for the chance to extend the push for continued excellence well beyond that.

To which I say ...

Cool.

A last point.

As a post written a few weeks back observes, Reinsdorf does seem to reinvest in the club. Clearly, he has invested most of next year's added revenues back into the team in Paulie and Thome. You have to like that.

If we keep being successful and the financial pie keeps growing, there is every reason to suspect that he will raise the payroll to keep up.

To which I say ...

Very cool. Nice to have an owner who will reinvest rather than instantly holding a fire sale.

All in all, this White Sox fan is pretty dang happy!

by HFSox on Nov 30, 2005 9:25 PM CST reply actions

Swimming Upstream

Amen, HFSox! The upside here is unlike anything Sox fans can imagine. Winning cures a lot, but even more important is that this team is FUN to watch and has a face (Ozzie) that is now instantly recognizable. Toss in the (forgive me)upward mobility of the South Loop/Bronzeville/Bridgeport areas, and all of a sudden Sox Park becomes a real destination for players and fans alike. That doesn't necessarily mean it becomes "yuppie" (although that's always a risk of success), it just means there's a buzz there that previously didn't exist. Anybody afraid of that? Not me!

Turning the Chicago Baseball Tide - One Championship at a Time

by WestSideSoxFan on Dec 1, 2005 11:29 AM CST reply actions

Consider this quotation.

WSSF, here is a relevant quotation from a Tribune article on the signing:

======

The signing of Konerko, 29, makes it likely the Sox will have a payroll well above the $75 million they spent in 2005.

That's thanks to increased income "that will take us to another level," Williams said. "We took a major step forward in winning the World Series, but to cement ourselves in the Chicago market and the national market, we have to keep pushing. We won it, and we want to win it again."

========

This is what I was referring to, and I love it.

Look, not every team in every city can do this. I live in the Twin Cities, and the Twins simply cannot ever find an income stream to let them duel with the big market teams over salaries. They have no choice but to constantly develop young talent and sell off enough of that talent to try to remain competitive.

By contrast, so far as I know, there is no structural reason why the White Sox can't do what the Red Sox have done in recent years and lift their brand name to a place where they have one of those large market income streams. If they do that, then by the time 2010 rolls around they are likely to be able to afford a 5th year for Konerko, even he has started to fade. Boston and NY have dead money on their salaries and they still get things done.

Obviuously, there is a lot of risk in all of this. You can waste a ton of money. And knowledgable fans might have debates on the wisdom of the Thome trade and the Konerko signing on the merits. I am not knowledgable enough to say much about that one way or another.

But I think Ken Williams--and Jerry Reinsdorf!--made the right STRUCTURAL decision. They are committing to a course of trying to step up into the big leagues of the big leagues. I absolutely love the fact that they chose to do that.

And look at the confirmation we get immediately. Paulie says that the signing of Thome was itself a recruitment strategy. He as a player INSTANTLY knew what that signing meant. The Sox were committed to seeking more championships!

I think Konerko's recognition of that fact should tell us a lot about how we should see this thing.

These guys are doing PRECISELY what any fan wants his team's management to do!

And I love it.

by HFSox on Dec 1, 2005 1:44 PM CST up reply actions

Just wanted to say

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments you have expressed in these posts. There'a real opporunity here, and it looks like everyone is on the same page in terms of turning that into a reality.

Before last season I was excited about the team, but the way things are going, I think they're going to be even better next year. As a fan that's all you can really ask for.

Great players make great plays.

my blog

by simplesinger on Dec 1, 2005 2:01 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, that's it.

Actually, I would adjust things slightly.

You say, "I think they're going to be even better next year. As a fan that's all you can really ask for."

I would put it like this:

Kenny (with Jerry's support) has made aggressive, good faith efforts to make them even better next year.

They may or may not work. But KENNY IS MAKING AGGRESSIVE AND ESSENTIALLY PLAUSIBLE MOVES TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP!

And that, indisputably, is all a fan can ask for!

by HFSox on Dec 1, 2005 2:16 PM CST up reply actions

Right

Basically I was just saying that the simple fact of me(being a fan) thinking that this team is going to be even better next year, is all I can really hope for.

I think they have a good plan, and they're following it with what you put as, "making aggressive and essentialy plausible moves to take the next step". Who knows if they will pan out, but it's obvious that they actually care about the team, and about what they're doing, as evidenced by the increased revenue going right back into the team.

To me it's even more of a reason to root for these guys.

Great players make great plays.

my blog

by simplesinger on Dec 1, 2005 4:58 PM CST up reply actions

And Take THAT, King George!

I don't want to turn this into a "We Are The World" piece, but isn't it just a tad more beautiful that the Sox are doing all this without having the stereotypical stodgy old white guys in management? When you look at the success that such an ethnicly diverse group is having (both on field and front office), it is the very admirable essence of Chicago and it is going to turn the baseball establishment on its head. When you peel back the onion, the Sox are the coolest, most ecclectic team in the game. Ram it down their throats, guys, and milk it for all its worth!

Turning the Chicago Baseball Tide - One Championship at a Time

by WestSideSoxFan on Dec 1, 2005 4:05 PM CST reply actions

Yep

It seems that Kenny, Ozzie, and the Sox are sort of creating their own style that is at odds with the rest of the league. Like you said, it does seem to embody the essence of Chicago in many ways. Here's to hoping they keep it up.

Great players make great plays.

my blog

by simplesinger on Dec 1, 2005 5:00 PM CST up reply actions