Contreras would like to stay; No offer yet

by The Cheat on Dec 17, 2005 3:24 PM CST in White Sox News

I appears as if Jose Contreras will sign a long-term deal with the White Sox in the near future.

"Jose has found a place where he's very happy and successful," agent Jaime Torres said Friday.

[...]

Torres said he spoke "a few days ago" with the Sox and was awaiting an offer.

"It's up to (general manager) Kenny Williams," Torres said. "We're very willing to listen."

With Garland rejecting a 3-year deal, the Sox will almost assuredly sign Contreras for about the same.

From the same article:

The Sox also face a Tuesday night deadline for tendering contracts to their arbitration-eligible players. They are expected to do so to Garland, catcher A.J. Pierzynski, third baseman Joe Crede and utility player Rob Mackowiak.

The Sox may try to trade infielder Willie Harris and outfielder Timo Perez, both eligible for arbitration, before the deadline.

I can't see there being much market for either Harris or Perez. Willie is a useful player, but nobody is going to pay much for a backup/platoon second baseman. The Cardinals would be a good destination here. Timo, well, he's bad and every team in baseball knows it. Good thing he can speak Japanese.

Finally, I don't know whether this is true or not. Buried in a Tracy Ringolsby column in the Rocky Mountain News was this tidbit of info:

Not only is Vazquez younger than Hernandez, but by demanding a trade from Arizona, he cannot become a free agent for five years.

This is probably just a misprint, but I'm honestly not sure. Is it possible that we have three consecutive years where, like the reserve clause, Vazquez can not become a free agent and is arbitration eligible? If so, wow. That's a valuable chip to have. Of course, when he's already making $12M at the end of the contract, if he has a decent season, his arbitration reward is going to be even higher, so they wouldn't be saving much money, if any.

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List of likely non-tenders

RHP Joe Borowski. Even though Borowski was arguably the MVP of the Devil Rays' second half in 2005, he may be the odd man out if the Rays sign Japanese setup man Shinji Mori.
RHP Gil Meche. He'll probably make around $4 million and hasn't improved the way the Mariners hoped.
RHP Ryan Franklin. Two rough years in a row for Seattle.
RHP Dan Kolb. The Brewers traded for Kolb at the Winter Meetings and would like to give him a chance to return to 2004 form, but only if he agrees to be non-tendered and re-signed at a significantly reduced price than the $3.4 million he made last year from Atlanta.
3B Russell Branyan. The Brewers plan to start Bill Hall at third base and decided to re-sign veteran Jeff Cirillo as a backup. Prospect Corey Hart played third base in the Arizona Fall League and could serve as a utility man, potentially leaving Branyan without a job. Branyan missed a month last season with a broken middle finger, but more troublingly he struggled all season with a mysterious shoulder injury. He could offer the team a power left-handed bat off the bench, and the Brewers talked at times last season about using him as a backup in the outfield.
1B Hee Seop Choi. Deemed expendable by the Dodgers.
CF Corey Patterson. Cubs are trying to deal him now that they have Juan Pierre.
RHP Jim Brower. The Braves could likely sign him for around $1 million. But management made it known at the end of the 2005 season that they likely wouldn't bring him back. The veteran right-hander never showed consistency after being claimed off waivers in June.

Others possibly joining the non-tender ranks include catchers Jason Phillips (Dodgers) and Geronimo Gil (Orioles); infielders Junior Spivey (Nationals), Willie Harris (White Sox), Willie Bloomquist (Mariners) and Henry Mateo (Nationals); and pitchers Ramon Ortiz (Reds) and Kyle Lohse (Twins).

Ramon Ortiz was good out of the bullpen in '04, but seems like a malcontent.
Kyle Lohse would look pretty good as a 6th starter/swingman when Garland is traded.
Choi can still play, but he's not really a fit here.
Meche is still young enough to improve. Bullpen/6th starter role a possibilty.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 17, 2005 3:53 PM CST reply actions

non-tenders

Lohse is probably destined for the bullpen at some point, though he'd look good as the 6th SP in case of an injury. Look at his splits from innings 1-3 and 4-6---his walk rate climbs, his K's diminish, and his avg, OBP and SLG all increase in the 4-6th innings compared to the first time around the lineup.

My only concern is how much money some team would likely offer him as a 5th SP if he becomes a FA. Would he take similar cash for a bullpen role? Maybe AJ could convince him to come to the south side

by cfisk72 on Dec 18, 2005 1:22 PM CST up reply actions

If Garland/Count gets moved....

Meche/Franklin/Lohse/Ortiz is almost a must sign IMO . Cant go into the season with 5 starters and no backup plan.

by Tony82087 on Dec 17, 2005 4:07 PM CST reply actions

Harris

I would still like to keep him for his glove.

AIM: shaftr01

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by shaftr on Dec 17, 2005 5:59 PM CST reply actions

Yeah

I think he's a good bench player. Great glove, can get on base, great speed (was actually able to steal bases last year). Helped win WS game 4.

I understand the Sox management isn't happy with him not playing SS in winter ball, but it seems like a waste to just jettison him.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 17, 2005 8:38 PM CST up reply actions

Was he really that bad in CF in 2004?

I didn't understand why Ozzie didn't let Harris get in at CF at all in 2005. With the way Ozzie likes guys who can play multiple positions, it seems like Harris' value takes a big hit if he only lets Willie play 2B...

by CWSKeith on Dec 18, 2005 12:13 PM CST reply actions

I also saw this w/r/t Vazquez' contract

From a BP chat transcript:

Sean (Raleigh, NC): I saw something today about the Javier Vasquez trade that I haven't heard before: "The White Sox will actually control Vazquez beyond 2007. When he invoked the trade demand, Vazquez made himself ineligible for free agency for three years." Is this part of the CBA or his contract, and what do you think the Sox are planning to do with him next winter?

Jonah Keri: Tom Gorman has written a series of excellent articles for BP that detail many of MLB's most arcane rules, contract rules included. He recently discussed the Vazquez situation in an article on the site: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4614

Basically, as Tom said in a recent message:

"If you invoke your trade demand and it goes through you can't be a FA for three years. Vazquez has two years left on his deal, so after the third deal the team can take him to arbitration and he has to accept. Of course, they can chose NOT to take him to arb, if they don't want him anymore. In a sense he becomes a 5+ arb eligible player with no FA rights. The only difference is that his deadline dates are a little different (they have to make the decision no Vazquez very early in the calendar)."

by CWSKeith on Dec 18, 2005 6:05 PM CST reply actions

I still don't know what that means

5+ arb?

Does that mean that he, in essense, signed a 4-year deal with the Yankees, and since he demanded a trade, there's a 5th year of arbitration?

Or...

Does that mean, that after he demanded the trade, he can not become a FA for 5 years?

I suspect the former.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 18, 2005 7:12 PM CST up reply actions

I read it as...

We get him for two years at his 'normal' contract, and then three years after that we can take him to arbitration.

But, I'm still not 100% sure on it either.

by CWSKeith on Dec 18, 2005 10:19 PM CST reply actions

This is what XX(c) says

Any player whose contract is assigned(traded as a result of his demand) persuent to this section C, until he has completed 3 years of Major League service, shall not subsequently be eligible to exercise his right to (i) require the assignment of his contract(demand another trade) or (ii) become a free agent, subject to subparagraphs (a) through (c) below. (I'm not typing them) What they say is that once the traded player's contract expires the 'owning club' goes through the normal motions of offering arbitration or loses their rights to the player.

I'll give you my interpretation here - a 5 year player is traded. He has at least a year remaining on his contract. He has the right to demand a trade. The owning team either trades him or he becomes a free agent. If he's trades he then loses the right to free agency for 3 years as well as the right to demand a trade.

So since he has a two year contract the third year entitles the Sox to offer arbitration rather than immediately losing him to free agency..

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Dec 19, 2005 6:51 PM CST up reply actions

Pierzynski

PER: Rotoworld
White Sox agreed to terms with catcher A.J. Pierzynski on a three-year contract.
Pierzynski had one year of arbitration remaining before being eligible for free agency next winter. No terms yet, but we're guessing that the deal is worth $15 milion-$18 million. If so, it's not a bad signing. Pierzynski actually had a disappointing 728 OPS while hitting a career-high 18 homers last season, but he'll be a reliable regular for at least three more years

AIM: shaftr01

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by shaftr on Dec 19, 2005 1:26 PM CST reply actions