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Around SBN: Kentucky Basketball: Where the Wildcats Stand as of Today

Sox Diary Posted at Gaslamp Ball Blog

Other than they typo re the White Flag Trade ('87 vs '97), this is a pretty good commentary by a former Chicagoan.  He's obviously older than some of you (not me) and there may be a nugget or two in here that you didn't know.
Ah... 1977!  That was a fun year!
More below the fold:

Star-divide

Don't worry Padres fans -- unlike Cubs fans, White Sox fans won't be flooding Petco.

The thing is though, you might see some of the same Cubs fans you saw last weekend -- except they will be rooting for the Padres. Yeah, there will be a few White Sox fans....after all, there are  probably a few. (Perhaps there are more in So Cal than in Chicago, because they sure aren't flocking to US Cellular Field, even with the best team in the AL)
A little background here: I grew up as a Chicago baseball fan -- I rooted for both the Cubs and the White Sox in the 60s and 70s....seemed like the proper thing to do. You live there -- you grow up with the teams...they are on TV almost every day -- even sharing the same TV broadcaster for many years (Jack Brickhouse on WGN-TV) Most of my peers felt as I did -- the Cubs, the White Sox, the Bears, the Black Hawks, the Bulls. Our teams.

All of this changed with a number of events:

The demise of the old Comiskey Park

Jerry Reinsdorf's ownership

Sports Talk Radio

The old Comiskey was -- well, an outdoor beer garden. It was rowdy, beery, boisterous -- kind of like a carnival midway, with one-legged Bill Veeck as the ringmaster. Harry Caray arrived in the 70s as the voice of the White Sox, with Jimmy Piersall beside him. I'd even watch more White Sox games on TV in that era, because of the devil-may-care attitude of the 2 broadcasters. Only a few of the teams were competitive (1977) but still, people enjoyed the atmosphere (or was it the smell?) of Comiskey Park.
Enter Jerry Reinsdorf -- he made sure Comiskey would soon be history, as under his ownership threatening to move the team to Florida. Well, he induced the State of Illinois and City of Chicago to build him his own stadium. (The current Tropicana Field was the possible destination of the White Sox)

That's strike 1.

The White Sox drew well the first years of the new Comiskey -- but the word got out -- this is a not a good place to watch a ball game -- "sterile" was the most apt description. Reinsdorf turned down a Camden Yards-esque design, for his new play pen, FYI, and, instead got the 80s' version of Dodger Stadium...but lacking any of the beauty of that venue. That stadium should NEVER have been built next to the old park -- another mistake. It should have been built in the South Loop -- which, at that time was beginning to 'gentrify'-- and another Wrigleyville/Gaslamp situation could have been created. Instead, you have a situation where the team keeps (in vain) trying to improve the park -- but nobody's buyin' the fixes. (Don't you love the view of the tenements just past the park's border?)

Strike 2 -- Jerry R. takes the White Sox off WGN. He creates his own cable network -- the problem is, cable penetration in Chicago in 1982 is -- well, near....ZERO. (Exit Harry Caray, and the legend is created on the Northside)

Strike 3 -- The 1987 'fire sale" in which Jerry R. started to sell off players, with the team 3 games out of the AL Central lead.

Strike 4 -- Jerry R. is credited with holding the MLB line, keeping undecided owners in line -- leading to a strike -- and no World Series in 1994.

Strike 5 -- In the mid to late 90's Jerry R. ran the team as if they were in a small market. You would have thought they were the Montreal Expos. Low payrolls....how can a team in the 3rd market be run as if they were in Kansas City? More people are turned off.

Strike 6 -- The rise of Sportstalk radio in Chicago. I work in radio -- conflict sells. Conflict gets ratings. So, the hosts play up conflict between the team's fans rises....it gets heated...it gets nasty...and now, the hatred is at a heated pitch.

It's very New York-like now. (Or, kinda like the Padres fans hatred of the Dodgers.) There's no such hatred between Giants & A's Fans....if memory serves me correctly, split Caps were produced for the 1989 World Series in both colors and logs. Dodgers Fans and Angels fans don't seem to be at war.

All of those events became the "Perfect Storm" to erode the fan base of the White Sox even further.

So now, the atmosphere between White Sox fans that are left (to their credit, they are very passionate) and Cubs fans has become toxic -- and, in reality -- it's the White Sox fans who hate the Cubs. I, as a Cubs fan don't hate the White Sox. I just don't care. And, by the crowd count -- most of Chicago is ignoring the White Sox. And, boy is that making the die-hard White Sox fan angry...and bitter...and angry...and bitter.....and angry...and bitter....After all, the White Sox haven't won a World Series since 1918 -- and all you would hear about was the drought that the RED Sox and the Cubs endured. (More angry, bitterness -- any reason why their fans sometimes charge the field and tackle coaches? OK, that's a cheap shot)

Yeah, the White Sox will sell out some games -- when the Cubs, Red Sox and Yankees come to town. But that's about it.

And did I mention the miserable PBP of "Hawk" Harrelson? "Grab Some Bench?" "He Gone?" "Put It On The Board -- yes!"  Just miserable work -- bad TV.

All right -- that being said the White Sox have had quite a run so far -- and might win the division. However, make them EARN it. Go Padres.
Edited to add link to original: http://www.gaslampball.com/story/2005/6/10/24715/3148

SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.

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Interesting
I actually got in a pretty heated discussion with a girl who works for the cubs last night.  I was slightly intoxicated at the time, but we kind of hijacked the groups discourse for a good 10 to 15 minutes as we conversated on sox vs. cubs.  The strange thing about it was how angry she got. I calmly explained what I like about the white sox, and what I don't like about the cubs and their fans.

I've been a white sox fan my entire life, and have debated the merits of chicago's baseball teams on many of occasions, but last night was definitly one of the weirdest.  I raised a bunch of different examples (frat party in the bleachers, bartmen, ubiquitous cell phone usage during the game) to illustrate my main point, which was that most cub fans aren't baseball fans, rather they're just fans of the wrigley field experience.

I tried to explain to her that this is not the worst thing in the world, but it's a big part of the reason I don't like the cubs. I like the game itself, and all the ancillary stuff is just a side show, that while occasionaly entertaining, is not the reason I go to games or care about a team.  She kept screaming at me, "Don't generalize!" and I suppose she's right, but during the entire conversation I felt more calm then I ever have before in one of these situations. The reason for that has to do with 4 simple words....

Best Record in Baseball

I was maimed by rock and roll... jeff tweedy

by simplesinger on Jun 10, 2005 10:12 AM CDT reply actions  

Bartman Distinction....
In regards to Bartman I always make a classic distinction that I'm not sure a whole lot of people noticed at the time.

During the 2003 playoffs, a few days before the Bartman debacle, a very similar play happened in the Red Sox Yankees series.  A fly ball was hit out towards right field at Fennway, drifting towards the stands.  Trot Nixon ran the ball down, the fans got out of the way as he reached into the stands and caught the ball for the last out of the inning.

I remember thinking at the time, wow I'm kind of surprised that a fan didn't get in the way and try and catch it themselves, but it's good to see real baseball fans who know how to react to a situation and help the team.

Then a few days later Mr. Bartman did his part, and the rest is history.

I was maimed by rock and roll... jeff tweedy

by simplesinger on Jun 10, 2005 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice stories, DoubleS...
I know exactly what you mean when talking about the "calm" of this year's Cubs vs Sox.  The perfect day was a Cub's loss and a Sox win, and now I couldn't care less what they do.  Amazing how a competitive team will do that...

Re the foul balls...
My daughters were taught at a very young age:

  1. Never lean over the rail to interfere with a ball.
  2. A ball hit into the stands is fair game BUT:
Only if a Sox player hit it!  If the opponent hit it, they were to back away and keep other fans from interfering with OUR player.  Pretty simple concept, heh?
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 10, 2005 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

a little unrelated...
Did you catch this link to one of the moderators at Gas Lamp Ball falling onto the field in pursuit of a foul ball?  Pretty darn hilarious.  Those guys seem to have a good sense of humor over there, not to mention some terrific graphical editing skills.

In the comments for that post, one of their guys asked the cheat if he had a NL team to root for, and if not, how about the Padres?  I'd be up for it, except for maybe these next few games.  Kahlil Greene is good stuff.  They could be our NL brothers or something like that....

I mean, that Rally Unicorn could come in handy someday. Imagine Juan Urive up on that thing.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -Rogers Hornsby

by simplesinger on Jun 10, 2005 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uribe not Urive
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." -Rogers Hornsby

by simplesinger on Jun 10, 2005 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

nice catch burb
interesting post, i didn't know some of this.
Testicular Virility.

by Tom in NJ on Jun 12, 2005 11:54 PM CDT reply actions  

simply not true
This is nonsense. I grew up on the South Side and followed the Sox in the 60s and the 70s and we always hated the Cubs. And so did the generation before me.

by Patrick Sheehan on Jun 18, 2005 12:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Well, Patrick....
I guess growing up on the West side -- Westchester, to be exact and attending Proviso West High School we might have been a bit less parochial as to who we favored....we rooted for everybody. That, apparently is hard for you South Siders to believe, isn't it?

You might find it hard to believe, but I was born a South Sider. My very first years were spent in the Clearing District. (I can still remember the stench of the damn corn starch plant to this day)

But for YOU to describe my childhood experiences as "simply not true" is....crap. How dare you!

Everybody -- and I mean EVERYBODY in my peer group were CHICAGO sports fans. If the uniform said "Chicago" it was ours. Live and die with it. The WHA? Yeah, I was there watching the Chicago Cougars play the Winnipeg Jets in the musty International Ampitheater. I saw my first Bulls games there, too.

And you know what, Patrick -- I probably went to more White Sox games than Cubs games. Simply put, I could always find free tickets to Comiskey. (You could find freebees everywhere, for obvious historical reasons, from 1968 to 1974) I was there for one game when there were less than a thousand people in Comiskey.  (If memory serves me correctly -- that would have been 1969 when they lost nearly 100 games.) I, apparently was a better Sox fan than -- millions of Chicagoans. (Probably a better one than you, Patrick. The team sucked, but I went anyway)  I can remember when you couldn't get the damn games on the radio! And you think you have problems now? (In that era, the team was on 3 lowpower suburban radio stations. The team was so bad, the games were literally radioactive to major Chicago radio stations)  You seem to portray yourself as a typical South sider. Apparently, that must mean you hate everything north of the Stevenson Expressway. And that's classless.

You sound like the Padres fans here in San Diego  -- they are so obsessed with hating the Dodgers, it's comical. I'm a Bears fan -- I hate the  Packers but I don't walk around wearing T-shirts that say "Packers Suck." I would hope I'm a bit more.....classier than that. Just check out the cheesehead Packers fans...they have a wonderful time bashing Chicago and the Bears. They are idiots.  And, on a similar basis -- you and your peers have a wonderful time dumping on the Cubs. Woo-hoo, there's some good times! What an inferiority complex!

I repeat -- there were only a handful of White Sox fans attending games here in San Diego. Where were the Sox fans, Patrick?  Can YOU explain? Don't they travel? Or, as I have stated...there just aren't very many any more. Nobody really cares.

Look -- I hope the White Sox win the division and advance as far as possible. But I won't lose any sleep over it if they don't. Chicago needs a winner -- no matter what team it is. I would prefer it to be the Cubs. But if I was a White Sox partisian, I wouldn't waste my time obsessing about "those damn Cubs and all the attention they get." Fill your damn ball park and shut up. Then you'll get the respect you seem to crave.  Respect needs to be earned, not begged for. I don't see you rebutting any of the historical facts illustrated in the diary -- because that's what happened to the team.
Your owner gutted the fan base, it's that damn simple.

You just decided to take a cheap shot at me.
"Simply not true."  The opinions expressed were DAMN true.  That's the way it was. If your peer group hated the Cubs -- I have no doubt, that's for sure. But grow up -- try to bring your fandom to an adult level.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jun 19, 2005 3:07 AM CDT reply actions  

Nice riff, Jazz Man...n/t
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 19, 2005 11:27 AM CDT reply actions  

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