Houston Trades for Jennings: Columnists can now blast Kenny for being gun shy

blast?

I for one give me my deep thanks to kenny

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2006 4:55 PM CST reply actions

I'm preemptively calling them hypocrites

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 4:56 PM CST up reply actions

You can also count on

someone in the Chicago sports media will talk about how much better Taveras would be than BA. You know, cause then the Sox would have "effective speed" at the top of the order.

I heard an enlightening discussion on 670 yesterday (I changed stations as quickily as possible), in which it was explained that Anderson was very overrated defensively, has a terrible attitude, and that CF was the single most crucial position for the Sox address. I don't know if it will happen, but I'd love for the Sox to stick with BA and for him to have a good season. Ditching a number 1 pick after one year seems dumb to me...

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2006 9:02 PM CST up reply actions

To think if Jennings brings in that

We would have been ripped off sending Garland for that package.

-Jeeves Chi-Sox Blog

by jeeves on Dec 12, 2006 5:09 PM CST up reply actions

Hirsh would have been nice

But I wouldn't have enjoyed Willy T and Pods hitting 1 and 2 in the order. I think I'm happy the trade didn't happen.

Jennings is coming off a good season (better than Garland's) and he's only making $5M. So I think they might be comparably valuable.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2006 9:06 PM CST up reply actions

Non-tenders

Where can we get a list? Someone at BTF said the Braves have non-tendered Chris Reitsma and Marcus Giles. I'd try and ink Giles to a multiyear deal and flip Iguchi for a prospect or two, but that's just a wish.

by CWSKeith on Dec 12, 2006 5:06 PM CST reply actions

Here's a list that I saw a couple days ago

These or only possible non-tenders

Pitchers: Shawn Chacon, Mark Hendrickson, Josh Fogg, Victor Zambrano, Chris Reitsma, Jorge Sosa, Will Ohman, Todd Williams, Brendan Donnelly, Brandon Duckworth, Kyle Snyder, Chin-Hui Tsao, Javier Lopez, Joel Piniero

Hitters: Toby Hall, Yorvit Torrealba, Humberto Cota, Morgan Ensberg, Ben Broussard, Omar Infante, Antonio Perez, Eric Bruntlett, Brad Wilkerson, Kevin Mench, Jason Lane, Jody Gerut, Jayson Werth, Aaron Guiel, Hiram Bocachica, Rick Ankiel, Marcus Giles

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 5:30 PM CST up reply actions

List

http://www.baseballdigestdaily.com/blog/2006/12/final-non-tender-list.html

-Jeeves Chi-Sox Blog

by jeeves on Dec 13, 2006 2:02 AM CST up reply actions

any idea what will marcus giles command

now that the bravos non-tendered him?

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2006 5:07 PM CST reply actions

There's only 1 team that NEEDS a 2B

the Padres. The mets and Red Sox could maybe use one. But all the Mets need is a platoon parter for Valentin. And the Red Sox have the high-OBP no-strikeout Pedroia ready to step in at 2B.

So Giles might be a big bargain for the Padres. 3/$15-18M maybe?

He's worth more than that. Prospectus says that Iwamura who is a good comp for both Iguchi and Giles is worth about $10M in his market.

Giles will be the best deal of the off-season. Just like AJ, who was non-tendered by the Giants, was the best deal of the '04-'05 off-season.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 5:17 PM CST up reply actions

First casualties

Reitsma and Giles in Atlanta.

In my dream (XBOX) world, we would snap up Giles and use he or Iguchi everywhere. Everywhere being LF/CF/2B. Giles has the secondary skills that the Sox are lacking out of their LFer. He has a little bit of power, some good defense (though he's obviously never played LF), and a solid OBP (even in a bad year).

There's no reason to think he'd sign here with Iguchi in the fold, and the Padres (Where his brother plays) lacking a 2B. I just wish there was an outfielder with his skillset available in free agency. As it is seemingly the only comparable player available for trade is Ryan Church.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 5:13 PM CST reply actions

the rockies blog is going bananas

link

I also see, they did tender a contract to torrealba
any word on toby hall?

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2006 5:31 PM CST reply actions

hall will be non-tendered

unless they can find a trade partner.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 5:42 PM CST up reply actions

Is

that official? ....What do people think now? Are we looking at a series of minor moves to plug holes (ie back-up catcher, another platoon-type in the outfield), or are we going to do something on a bigger scale, like looking up the Mets or Rangers....as in the one that doesn't sign Zito? Or is there something else looming? I don't know what to think right now, as in I don't know what Kenny will do, or, jesus, don't even know what I'D DO!

by dantesox on Dec 12, 2006 5:58 PM CST up reply actions

Not official

but virtually assured.

I think the Sox are standing pat, unless they're overwhelmed by a deal. They'll add a back-up C (hopefully not Alomar) and call it an off-season.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 6:08 PM CST up reply actions

I

put this out there weeks ago, but will do it again....might it be worthwhile to bring in Shannon Stewert on an incentive-laden deal? If we're resigned to looking for lightning in a bottle, with no real risk to boot, wouldn't this be the kind of reach we'd take right now? We really need a relatively high OBP guy yet...I'm quite worried about the OFFENSE as a whole, quite frankly...we have the potential for big-time regression in several places...I'm not saying Stewert even comes close to addressing that, but, well, it's like I said....

by dantesox on Dec 12, 2006 6:15 PM CST up reply actions

Stewart sucks

He's worse defensively than Podsednik.

Where would he play?

He sucks. and oh yeah, he sucks. He's only good for .275/.330/.380 anymore and much of his original value was tied to the domes he played in, which eventually killed his legs.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 6:33 PM CST up reply actions

I

understand your perspective, though I think he has a higher probability to put together a quality year offensively than Pods....just watch him...he's just a better HITTER...we'd suffer with his defense in left...getting to the bigger question, though....I gotta believe Kenny fears the regression I talked about.....which is why I don't think he'll give up totally on making a Rocco Baldelli acquisition as a start to protect himself...

by dantesox on Dec 12, 2006 6:39 PM CST up reply actions

Well that would totally suck...

because if they're entering the season with this bullpen, I won't be buying any Sox tickets and I won't have to worry about needing any playoff tickets.

by White Sox Randy on Dec 13, 2006 9:14 AM CST up reply actions

tigers non-tender alexis gomez

non-tender - his stats

is he better than pods?

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2006 6:09 PM CST reply actions

Come on, man

What would be the pointing Alexis Gomez? We have three players who for 2006 would be pretty much the same player as Gomez -- Owens, Sweeney, and Pods. You could probably stretch it and add a fourth in Casey Rogowski.

Think a little bit. Adding Gomez would be so freaking redundant.

by CWSKeith on Dec 12, 2006 6:50 PM CST reply actions

I wasn't familiar at all with gomez

that's why I asked...

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2006 7:04 PM CST up reply actions

Geez Keith

Give the guy a break...he's just looking at any and all possible ways to replace Pods. It's a noble quest.

That said, I'd prefer a team without Alexis Gomez as well.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2006 9:08 PM CST up reply actions

stewart

isn't that bad of an idea, if he's healthy he's really good defensively (even though he's older), and a great hitter. practically carried minnesota two years ago after dealine.

I also agree alexis gomex is no better then the talent we have, but I'm not putting much value on the backup catcher, as long as he learns how to call a good game and bunt

by tubesox on Dec 12, 2006 9:37 PM CST reply actions

When it comes to the Twins

I trust the views of Aaron Gleeman implicitly. He's been ragging on Stewart's defense for 3 years now, calling him a DH for the past two years. That's all I need to know there. I know it' difficult to fathom, but he's worse than Pods defensively. He'd rank as about the 6th best defensive outfielder we have behind Dye, Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, Mack (on the corner) and Pods.

On offense, I can't see the upgrade. He's .287/.347/.405 the last three years. But he's never on the field and has slipped to .279/.329/.383 the last two years. Sure his slugging is higher than Pods .275/.340/.351, but the added offense is offset by his terrible defense and time spent in the trainers room.

All a move for stewart would accomplish is make the Sox older, slower, worse defensively, and more injury prone all for an upgrade of 30 points of slugging. Talk about a pointless move.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 10:04 PM CST up reply actions

Padres sign Jose Cruz Jr.

Padres signed outfielder Jose Cruz Jr. to a one-year, $650,000 contract.
Cruz was dropped by the Dodgers after hitting .233/.353/.381 in 223 at-bats last season and didn't find work elsewhere. The Padres will probably end up with him in a reserve role, but at the moment, he's set to compete with Terrmel Sledge for a starting job in left field. He's likely the superior player, but neither would be all that interesting for fantasy purposes with Petco working its magic.

The Padres got a better LF'er than Podsednik for 25% the price of Pods.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2006 9:57 PM CST reply actions

With the Rockies resigning Yorvit Torrealba...

Toby Hall is practically sitting in Kenny's lap waiting to be picked up. The Dodgers have Russell Martin and recent signee Mike Lieberthal.

If Kenny doesn't get Hall and elects to stay with the rotting corpse of Sandy Alomar for one more season, I will lose a lot of respect for him.

I'm actually happy that the Rockies resigned Torrealba. I know that it's one less option for Kenny but Toby Hall is the guy I want.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2006 10:02 PM CST reply actions

Official

Hall and Werth not offered arbitration by the Dodgers.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 10:11 PM CST reply actions

Dodgers non-tender Toby Hall... GET HIM NOW, KW!

Dodgers cut loose Werth, Hall

LOS ANGELES -- On the day Eric Gagne became a former Dodger, so did outfielder Jayson Werth, catcher Toby Hall and reliever Franquelis Osoria.

Hall, 31, was acquired with Hendrickson from Tampa Bay on June 27 in exchange for catcher Dioner Navarro and Minor League outfielder Justin Ruggiano. Hall hit .368 (21-for-57) as the unhappy backup to Russell Martin. The Dodgers tried to trade him, but interested clubs apparently were convinced the Dodgers would non-tender Hall and they could get him without giving up a player. The signing of Mike Lieberthal as backup catcher made Hall expendable, as did a likely raise from his $2.25 million salary if he went through the arbitration process.

Kenny, if you blow this you suck.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2006 10:16 PM CST reply actions

Toby Hall...

We will likely have to compete with the Phillies for his services.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2006 10:34 PM CST up reply actions

I think Merkin's article is right...

...and the Sox will use the Man Who Should Be Bench Coach (Alomar) as the backup catcher. Sierra was just dropped from the 40-man roster, I assume as a prelude to adding Alomar in the next day or two.

Clearly, that would be a terrible move. Hall would be a great addition, but I've sort of given up hope that Williams will improve the Sox this offseason.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2006 10:48 PM CST up reply actions

I actually heard,,,

Williams number 1 goal was to make the 07 worse, to piss the fans off. Odd, but it's what I have heard.

Give me a break.

by Tony82087 on Dec 12, 2006 11:20 PM CST up reply actions

All I'm saying...

...is that the 2007 Sox don't look like a better team than the 2006 Sox. That's hardly going overboard on negativity. I think Williams is a good GM. Obviously he's trying to improve the team.

But, I think Cheat's right that they are basically going to stand pat at this point. I didn't think a lot of changes were needed, but the two things I thought were important to address were LF and C. And those look to be filled by Pods and Alomar. Color me unimpressed.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2006 12:24 AM CST up reply actions

Phillies

drafted 2 catchers in the rule 5. Apparently, they're looking for a good defensive backstop to be their backup. It would be a crowded cap with Coste, their own minor league C, the two Rule 5ers, and Hall in tow.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 10:49 PM CST up reply actions

Carlos Ruiz...

I didn't realize that the Phillies already had a decent, fairly young catcher. I doubt they will be too interested in Hall then.

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2006 11:00 PM CST up reply actions

Ughhh...

Dodgers non-tendered catcher Toby Hall.
Mark Hendrickson keeps his roster spot. The Dodgers tried to trade Hall, but what chance there was of that happening disappeared when Mike Lieberthal was signed, taking away the team's leverage. Hall could be an option for the Phillies, who are looking for someone to split time with Chris Coste. The Red Sox and Yankees could also look at him as a backup.

After rethinking the situation, the only thing that Kenny can offer Toby Hall is more money than the Phillies. Chris Coste? Hall could start for the Phillies. ;(

by SSH2005 on Dec 12, 2006 10:56 PM CST up reply actions

again

Yankees said they will fill backup C from within. And Boston will be Mirabelli, unless they enjoy the sight of Toby Hall running to the backstop to pick up a Wakefield flutterball.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 12, 2006 11:03 PM CST up reply actions

So if Kenny fails to sign Toby Hall...

will most people think he has failed this offseason?

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 8:11 AM CST up reply actions

Doesn't have to be Toby Hall...

but if he goes with Sandman Alomar as the backup catcher and Podsednik in LF, he will have failed on two of three changes that needed to be made in my opinion.

I'm counting trading Garcia as the lone accomplishment.

GO SOX!

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2006 1:27 PM CST up reply actions

Jettisoning Cotts, too

to say nothing of locking up the Mighty Gload and Ozuna team!

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

We set an ALL-TIME attendance record with....

nearly 3 million people and Kenny won't spend more than $ 3 mil. ON THE ENTIRE BULLPEN - especially after he caught with his pants down last year by neglecting the bullpen.

I'm losing respect for Kenny. And, if Alomar is on this team, I won't be attending any Sox games.

That's a $%&*ing disgrace after the way fans have supported this team !

by White Sox Randy on Dec 13, 2006 9:20 AM CST reply actions

We get it - you won't be attending

any games, yadda, yadda. It's your right to boycott the team with your dollars if the philosophies don't match up - just don't hop on the bandwagon if KW's strategy (still unknown to all except Kreskin and KW) works and the Sox are in 1st.

No fair weather fans do we need. So sayeth Yoda.

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 9:23 AM CST up reply actions

Bullpen?

I think KW has done a great job with the bullpen this year. The 2 poorest performers have been jettisoned (Cotts, Politte). He has put together a bullpen with 4 flame throwers (MacDougal, Thornton, Jenks, Aardsma). He still has Floyd, Gonzalez, Haeger, Oneli Perez, and Boone Logan to fill out the back of the bullpen. And he's done it all for minimal amount of money. All in all a great job.

I think KW's plan is stand pat, but have the money to make a big move at the trading deadline or in '08 when a big crop of excellent free agents will be available (V Wells, A Jones just to name a few). This will give KW some time to see if BA or Sweeney is the answer in CF.

Oh yes, I agree that our hitters will have some regression to their mean (Dye and Crede in particular), but htis will be balanced out by our pitcher's regression to their mean (particularly Buerhle and Vazquez).

by bhoov on Dec 13, 2006 10:04 AM CST up reply actions

money does not equal competence

...the reason the bullpen is so cheap is it has a lot of young, talented arms in it. Williams could decide to pay Jenks $5 million a year to equal Gagne's guaranteed money -- he's certainly been more productive than Gagne the past two years and I would bet he will be more productive in 2007. I would much rather have this bullpen than Texas's or Baltimore's, both of which have much higher payrolls. What do you want, Scott Eyre?

My one concern for next year is left field, though I suppose it is possible the team will go north with an informal LF/CF platoon of Podsednik, Anderson, and Sweeney. That would be better than starting Podsednik every day, but less preferable than having, say, Kenny Lofton in left on a one-year deal.

by asinwreck on Dec 13, 2006 10:22 AM CST up reply actions

Why would Hall come here?

He was miserable in LA not being the starter. I have a hard time seeing him signing with the Sox to play C twice a week, and pinch hit twice more.

by BridgeportJoe on Dec 13, 2006 10:09 AM CST reply actions

Hall...

would come here if he got a decent contract with the understanding that he would get XXX amount of ABs. The Sox actually face quite a few LHP, so he would see a lot of action.

Also, he would be on a World Series caliber team.

by RME JICO on Dec 13, 2006 10:37 AM CST up reply actions

are there any teams looking for a starter?

can't say i'm that familiar with the catcher market but i don't get the sense a lot of teams are looking for a starting catcher.

by larry on Dec 13, 2006 10:53 AM CST up reply actions

KW is Bluffing Again

Are you telling me Houston wouldn't have done this same trade with the Sox, substituting Garland for Jennings? KW obviously is the one who put the brakes on that deal. I think he's just trying to put the FOG into Buehrle and show him he's willing to trade ANYONE, even Garland.

I'll go by my initial guess that KW will use the Fredo money to extend Buehrle. They're not going into 07 with two inexperienced starters, starters and pen will stay as is.

My guess is that MB will sign soon. He seems happy here and doesn't strike me as someone who's dying to go FA and squeeze every penny he can out of the market.

by ChicagoPete on Dec 13, 2006 10:48 AM CST reply actions

On a lighter note

My brother-in-law and Sox mentor (who converted me from being a Cubs fan in 1973) was kind enough to present me with a pre-Christmas gift of "Total White Sox," basically everything you ever wanted to know about the history of the Sox, stats, etc. (Riddled with errors, by the way - for example, a photo of Tad Iguchi identified as Robby Alomar)

Included amongst the all-time players list was an outfielder who played in 1944 and 1945 by the name of...I swear to God...Johnny Dickshot - there is even a picture of Johnny sliding into home. When I read this late one night, I laughed out loud nearly waking my children.

Happy Holidays White Sox Nation!

by tailgater on Dec 13, 2006 11:13 AM CST reply actions

you gave me an idea for a diary

thanks.

by larry on Dec 13, 2006 11:14 AM CST up reply actions

You'd never heard of Johnny Dickshot?

His nickname was "Ugly," which is pretty much the definition of insult to injury.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 13, 2006 11:37 AM CST up reply actions

Over the summer

I recall a post where many were contributing "unusual" baseball player names...I don't recall Johnny Dickshot...although I think I've seen a couple of his movies. Maybe that's someone else.

by tailgater on Dec 13, 2006 11:40 AM CST up reply actions

Perhaps in certain circles,

Johnny Dickshot is not considered "unusual". Like at Vivid Video...

More to the point, 'gater, where does one get the "Total White Sox" as a stocking stuffer for oneself?

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 12:57 PM CST up reply actions

Ok, enough is enough.

You cannot put the words Johnny Dickshot and "stocking stuffer" in the same post without warning people first.

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 13, 2006 12:59 PM CST up reply actions

LOL

Damn it, Toonder, I erased the double entendre thinking I was being too obvious.

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 1:18 PM CST up reply actions

I do believe Costco

so it will probably be a bargain.

It is fun to play "spot the errors," but most of the info is great. Like the stats on 40 GAME WINNER (yes, 40) Ed Walsh pitching 464 innings (yes, 464) in 1908. With a LIFETIME ERA of 1.82!

Fun stuff.

by tailgater on Dec 14, 2006 9:57 AM CST up reply actions

Although Johnny is long gone

I believe he is survived by his daughter, Connie Lingus. (I can't help myself, sorry).

by tailgater on Dec 13, 2006 11:42 AM CST up reply actions

johnny dickshot!!!

John Oscar Dickshot (Ugly)

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 13, 2006 5:52 PM CST up reply actions

Garcia per Rotoworld

Freddy Garcia said he did have some shoulder pain during a 2006 season in which his velocity was consistently down.

He believes his heavy workload through 2005 and the postseason took a toll. "My shoulder hurt a little bit. I couldn't let it go," Garcia said. "I'm getting a lot of rest."

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Dec 13, 2006 12:24 PM CST reply actions

Worried about the low salaried bullpen.

If any folks are worried that the low salaries of the bullpen staff equate to " a crappy bullpen", then KW can simply give each member of the bullpen a $2million annual raise a voila, all our bullpen troubles are solved!

That was easy....

Canada's finest

by MarkD on Dec 13, 2006 12:29 PM CST reply actions

According to Olney, Jays have offered

Wells 7 years/$126 million. Further, he's ging to sit on it and wait until he can shop himself. Yeah, pretty sure ol' Vern ain't gonna be patrolling CF for the Sox anytime soon.

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 13, 2006 1:47 PM CST reply actions

You don't think JR will pony

$18MM/year for 7 years, or Kevin Garnett/Derek Jeter $? For a position player not named A-Rod?

O ye of little faith! One more year of 3MM fans through the turnstiles and we're THERE!

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 1:52 PM CST up reply actions

Well, with all that money

we're saving by having THE CHEAPEST BULLPEN IN BASEBALL, you never know. ;-)

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 13, 2006 2:14 PM CST up reply actions

Actually....

Trading to get 1 year of Wells at his current salary before he leaves in free agency is something I could see the Sox doing. It would be similar to Bartolo Colon. Unfortunately, I would imagine the price for even just 1 year of Wells is steep.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2006 2:17 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, just like Richie Zisk/Eric Soderholm

Greg Luzinski Bill Veeck (asinwreck) days! Rent-a-player! Great for the team chemistry (which we all know has no empirical basis as measuring performance).

Yeah, I think the price is too steep, and we faithful (who PAY for the cheapest bullpen in the big leagues) would get spoiled seeing the best CF the Sox have had since, I don't know, Chet Lemon, Rudy Law, Ron LeFlore, or Walt "No Neck" Williams.

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 2:48 PM CST up reply actions

Ummm...

By "too steep" I meant that Toronto would probably want a starting pitcher plus Anderson. If the Sox could get him in a trade for, say, Josh Fields, Heath Phillips and Gavin Floyd, then I would do it. Rent-a-player or not, Vernon can have his salary-drive year in a Sox uniform as far as I'm concerned.

But I'm sure Toronto would want major league talent back in return, and I don't think the Sox have the depth to deal major league talent right now.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2006 3:04 PM CST up reply actions

Wells is a significant upgrade

and might even overshadow the current semi-hole in LF. I agree that they probably want too much -it seems like the talent pool is like the real estate market in FL after the cooling-off period this last year - overpriced, average talent (location), but the money is there from folks willing to spend.

Thus, I can't see a trade where we do much more than break even for immediate impact players. Too much money is out there, and GM's would rather open their checkbooks (Sox excluded, so far) than part with a proven commodity (Sox excluded, again).

The rent-a-player thing just brought back bad adolescent memories of the early-mid-70s's: Fun for a year, crushed the following year as the new fave player walks for more dough.

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 3:18 PM CST up reply actions

Walter played RF

I remember him crashing into the fence just below me.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Dec 13, 2006 10:26 PM CST up reply actions

I remember primarily CF

I got his autograph at a father/son Lions Club dinner one year. My Dad, who's 6' 4", towered over him. I remember him taking 3 silver dollars (?!), placing them in a line on his right forearm, and snapping all of them into his right hand. Kind of like the Robert Vaugh moment in "The Magnificent Seven" when he catches the flies. (Of course, he only catches one of the 3 -No Neck caught all 3.)

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2006 6:16 AM CST up reply actions

well -

According to baseball reference no-neck played a grand total of 13 games in center (3 with the Sox). It shows him pretty much splitting time between left and right but mostly playing right during his Sox stint. My only memories of him were in right. Maybe I'm just reading BR wrong.

Pat Kelly is the only Sox player I met as a kid. I don't have a cool story to go with it.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Dec 14, 2006 10:36 AM CST up reply actions

I will bow to the accuracy of the

BR. I just remember going to a game or two and seeing him in CF. Here's my HOF OF:

LF: Stan Musial/Ted Williams
CF: No Neck Williams

Runner up - Willie Mays/Ty Cobb
3. RF: Hank Aaron/Roberto Clemente/Babe Ruth

I remember Pat Kelly, #18, right? Lefty? I remember the red/white uni he wore.

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2006 2:53 PM CST up reply actions

Yep

Your choices are hard to argue with. Although No Neck's error to chance ratio in CF was by far his worse I'm thinking he and the official scorer were not getting along. Its a shame there were so few chances to witness his play in CF.

All I remember about Pat Kelly is the early 70's teams he played on.

BTW look up Red Faber in that Sox stats book.

Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!

by zokmaad on Dec 15, 2006 11:31 AM CST up reply actions

Cheat was right...

Red Sox sign Doug Mirabelli to a one-year contract.

One less interested team for Toby Hall. I think our main competition is the Phillies if the Yankees truly are intent on filling their backup catcher position from within their own organization.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 2:29 PM CST reply actions

money issue

the two mvp's salary times two was less then pods, money doesn' equal anything in baseball

by tubesox on Dec 13, 2006 4:55 PM CST reply actions

Big difference...

Neither Ryan Howard nor Justin Morneau were available. Jose Cruz Jr. is better than Podsednik and he was available to every team as a free agent.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 6:38 PM CST up reply actions

Omg...

Sportscenter quoted Baseball Prospectus' Projection System!

Brian Kenny is the r0xerz.

by CWSKeith on Dec 13, 2006 5:10 PM CST reply actions

M's trade Snelling & Fruto to Nats for Vidro

Nationals to Trade Vidro for Prospects

Ummm, don't the Mariners already have Jose Lopez starting at 2B? Are they going to use Vidro as a DH?

Bill Bavasi is awful. He signed Carl Everett, traded Matt Thornton for Joe Borchard, and now he trades two good prospects for an old, declining (especially power), injury-prone 2B to play DH.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 7:31 PM CST reply actions

So maybe we can get Beltre

for a song, or at least an opera?

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2006 7:37 PM CST up reply actions

Not unless they want to stick Bloomquist at 3B

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 7:51 PM CST up reply actions

Bavasi might

by wite on Dec 13, 2006 9:39 PM CST up reply actions

Hope and a prayer

That Kenny could somehow work out a deal for Lopez. If Crede's value is perceived to be better than Beltre's, how about Crede/Iguchi for Lopez/Beltre. Then again, that'd only be if Lopez is deemed 'expendable' by the Vidro trade, which would make trading for Iguchi seem kind of redundant.

But at this point, who knows how much lower Bavasi could go.

by CWSKeith on Dec 13, 2006 8:11 PM CST up reply actions

Lopez is gonna be a damn good player

but he'd only fill the Cintron'06 role on the Chisox in '07.

I can't see any way we land him. Of course, I couldn't see any way a team would choose to acquire Vidro when Giles hit the market yesterday, and figures to be the free agent steal of the off-season.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2006 10:04 PM CST up reply actions

Exactly what I was going to post...

How can you give up two pretty good prospects for an old, washed-up, injury-prone second baseman when a younger and better one is available and will only cost money? Just awful.

If Kenny elects to bring back Sandy Alomar instead of signing Toby Hall, I will feel the same way.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 10:11 PM CST up reply actions

Ryan Church still available...

Chris Snelling's imminent arrival in Washington will likely further increase the chances that Ryan Church is dealt this winter.
Snelling and Church are both left-handed hitters who fit best in left field, though they do have some experience in center. It's unlikely that the Nationals will need both, and Church appeared to be on the way out anyway. We're guessing the starting job will be Snelling's to lose in spring training. Michael Restovich could act as his platoon partner.

Come on Kenny, throw a decent pitching prospect at Bowden for Church. He is the perfect fit for LF.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 8:01 PM CST reply actions

ANYONE BUT PODS...

and Church looks like he could be a good player given a full-time starting gig.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 8:02 PM CST up reply actions

Haha, and it gets worse...

Not only are the Mariners taking on $12 million of Jose Vidro's $16 million salary for the next two years, they're also going to give him a vesting option for 2009 to make up for him waiving his no-trade clause.
It just keeps getting better. At least the Mariners didn't give up talent when they brought in Carl Everett to DH last season. The trade sending Vidro to Seattle for Chris Snelling and Emiliano Fruto is set to be officially announced on Thursday.

Source: Nationals.mlb.com

Bavasi must want to steal the "Worst Executive in baseball" title from Peter Angelos.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 8:22 PM CST up reply actions

One reason I'd like Church

The one thing the Sox clubhouse doesn't have, as far as I know, is a hyper-Christian.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 13, 2006 10:43 PM CST up reply actions

I've always pictured Uribe

as Pedro Cerrano playing SS. Does that count?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2006 10:48 PM CST up reply actions

Take it one step further

And you'd have to picture Juan Uribe as president of the United States.

Chew on that one.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 13, 2006 11:25 PM CST up reply actions

Ryan Church...

I don't care if he's in a satanic cult... he's light years better than Scottie Pods.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2006 10:56 PM CST up reply actions

I forgot Ozzie

He practices Santeria. That's gotta count for something.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2006 11:55 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, well, look what happened

to the lead singer of Sublime after singing about Santeria - DEAD!

So scoff at the voodoo at your peril....

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2006 2:55 PM CST up reply actions

I do marvel

at your ability to cut across generations so nimbly. In the past 24 hours, you've been everywhere from No Neck to Dickshot to Brad Newell from Sublime. My dad would have no idea who Brad Newell or Sublime is. Bravo.

Reminds me...you planning to make it up for any games at the Cell next year?

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2006 3:36 PM CST up reply actions

My niece is getting her

1st communion in May, so I might bring my daughter to her first game when we come up. (I love the Chicago-ese, ending sentences with preopsitions.) Otherwise (probably) not until October - am running the marathon, so hopefully THE PLAYOFFS!

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2006 3:46 PM CST up reply actions

If it's just going to be you and your daughter,

let me know and I'm sure I could fork over my seats to you for the day if you're interested.

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2006 3:50 PM CST up reply actions

You are the

Freaking Man, Toonder. Thanks for the offer - I'll touch base w/ you long before then. (Though I'm afraid I might have to live up to the Viking reputation you probably have carved out amongst your seatmates. Not shave for a week? Wear an Odin helmet? Whip out an interoggatory?)

:)

Thanks again, bro.

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2006 3:56 PM CST up reply actions

Not a problem.

Before you decide if you actually want to attend a game next season, though, remember that unless we spend a bunch of $$$ on the 'pen, you're not going to be seeing Randy around the ol' ballpark.

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2006 3:58 PM CST up reply actions