All I feel is relief
I haven't been nearly as relentless as Jim has been about the Sox need to fill the backup catcher spot, but as each day ticked by this off-season, I've felt increasingly uneasy about the prospects of another year of Alomar behind the plate. Thankfully, we can all breathe a little bit easier today.
It's hard to get excited about signing a backup catcher -- He'll only get, what, 200 at bats? -- Yet, in many ways, I feel the much same way about the Hall signing as I did back in early '05 when the Sox signed El Duque. After two consecutive seasons (one and a half, anyway) without any production from the backup catcher spot, I was ready for the Sox to overpay for a warm body that should fit nicely on the backend of the roster.
The Sox were in an tough situation with Hall. He could have gone to Philly, where he would have received much more playing time, or maybe even NY to play in pinstripes. From the sound of Kenny's statements, he used the high number of lefties in the Sox division as a major selling point to Hall, which is exactly what I said he should do when I first brought up his name.
The money and years probably helped too.
Reports out of Toronto seem to indicate, thanks to Vernon Wells' new contract, Alex Rios is now on the block. The Jays are looking for a starter to toss into the middle of their rotation.
I'd love to have Rios, and have often brought up his name when preaching patience in the development of Ryan Sweeney. Rios experienced a bit of a breakout last season that was interrupted by the staph infection running through the Jays locker room. I expect him to continue to blossom, much like Jermaine Dye and Magglio Ordonez did after they posted breakout seasons in their age 25 seasons. Rios has so much untapped power in his swing, it just hasn't fully fleshed itself out yet. I have absolute faith that it will be coming very soon.
While I'd love for that power potential to fully be realized in a White Sox uniform, I don't think the Sox can afford to pay the price it would take to get Rios. There are plenty of other smart people around baseball who see that same potential. One of them will be bold enough to part with a major league pitcher for Rios' peak years.
The Jays may also be shopping Reed Johnson, who played in the same outfield as Aaron Rowand back at Cal State Fullerton. Johnson turned 30 about a week ago, and doesn't have nearly the upside that Rios does, but he also figures to come at a much cheaper price than Rios. If the Jays balk at trading the young, burgeoning slugger, they might be willing to make a low-ceilinged outfielder for low-ceilinged starter swap. Phillips or Haeger, perhaps?
Johnson, for those who don't already know, has some pretty good on base skills against lefties (.301/.371/.435 the last three seasons and .323/.422/.445 last year), and can play all three outfield positions. He's better than our current left-fielder, and would be a nice player to have around in case Anderson flops or as a platoon partner for the aforementioned left fielder in '07 (I don't think he's going anywhere) and Sweeney in '08.
Even Phil Rogers liked the Toby Hall deal. Of course, that was a day after he took a backhanded swipe at the Sox by saying "Rather than moan about the market, the Blue Jays worked hard to re-sign center fielder Vernon Wells, who was a year away from free agency." I guess he didn't get the memo that the Jays were shopping a soon-to-be perennial .900 OPS outfielder.
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"Phillips or Haeger, perhaps?"
Believe me, from experience
However he has just turned into a complete ass. He keeps taking swipes at the Devil Rays organization that employed him and his horrible play for five years, calling them a "minor league team" after they offered him a contract and making similarly testy remarks earlier this offseason. He has been just a complete classless asshole, and it honestly pains me because he used to be one of my favorite Rays. However his utter lack of class combined with his poor production make me wonder how he keeps a major league job.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 18, 2006 7:51 AM CST reply actions
This comment
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 18, 2006 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
name the 60 catchers who are better
since when do major-leaguers have a 700 OPS?
anyway, he'll be facing lefties almost exclusively, and against lefties I think he has a higher OPS
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER
Toby Hall's OPS...
303 AB | .297 AVG | .334 OBP | .436 SLG | .770 OPS
It was a great signing by Kenny Williams. Toby Hall got 2-years, $3.65 million while Henry Blanco got 2-years, $5.25 million and Hall is the better player. Give it a rest, you aren't swaying anyone's opinion. Listen to Toby and go worry about your "minor league team."
You coincidentally leave out
Oh, and before you take a shot at my "minor league team", just remember that the White Sox have won exactly one more World Series over the last 89 years and if it hadn't been for some midnight jockeying by the Illinois Legislature, you'd be referring to the Tampa Bay White Sox.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, BTW
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
And boy was that one World Series sweet.
by Toonderstrook on Dec 20, 2006 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
no
no, it's 'the historically bad play of your backup catchers last year'
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER
You are correct
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
I guess the best you can do is
by Toonderstrook on Dec 20, 2006 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
I am not trying to argue that the Rays are better
My point was more or less that I resent cracks at my team that are either unprovoked, or unrelated to the actual point, and are put in a comment just to be an ass and to compensate for anything useful to say. It isn't original, it isn't relevant, and every team has been there at one point, and will eventually be there again.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
Nice way to lose all credibility
Also, if you can't stand the Socratic dialogue and defend your position without the "so's your Mother" argument stay the hell off the site, Douchebag.
By the way, the Bucs are having a fantastic year. Congrats on giving us a game Sunday and making it interesting. At least you beat the spread, Poindexter.
Just when I thought you
by Toonderstrook on Dec 20, 2006 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
NEVER soft on the Sox
Have a great holiday, Toonder.
stop feeding the trolls
I did?
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
here
amusingly, you posted this on your site roughly ten minutes before you came back on here posting about how terrible of a deal this was for the sox. obvious troll.
Funny
How a team could possibly actually plan on giving Hall the amount of playing time proportionate to the backup catcher position. Not only based on his production, but also what he has done to the two previous organizations he has been with.
Please tell me how that sentiment differs in the slightest from what I have said in this thread.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 5:59 PM CST up reply actions
you're doing a really good job, troll
He actually fits in well with platoons.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 03:51:03 PM EST
i am now officially against trading for any d-rays player - or, in fact, signing any player/coach/announcer/ballboy ever affiliated with your organization for the sole reason of preventing you from posting here ever again.
I quite honestly do not see that remark
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 24, 2006 10:58 PM CST up reply actions
You must have extraordinarily
by Toonderstrook on Dec 25, 2006 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
re: trop field
how the rays justify playing in a dome (which traps IN humidity, especially up in those rings) in an endless summer environment is beyond me. the ray tank in CF is cool, though. the bleachers only in the nosebleeds -- which have a blocked view of the field -- are not.
aaa team playing in a craptacular park. blegh. [link]
by thatshortkid on Dec 21, 2006 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
Simple
Personally, I agree. I don't really like the dome, and I wish for a retractable roof stadium the next time stadium talks come up. This allows the team to take advantage of beautiful Florida days, but keep out the typical Florida summer day. Hopefully this will become a reality.
The ray tank was a new addition last year, they did a good job with it to replace a kids play area that no one ever used.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
Classy
My point was not intended to be a cheap shot, and I see that it has come off as such. I do regret this, as it is not my intention to come onto an opposing team's site and attack its fans. Please do understand this, and I apologize if my statement was misconstrued that way.
The way my comment was intended to be taken was as a comparison. Chicago's lack of success over almost 90 years and the period in which they almost lost their team is intended to be a point of comparison. And that is that every team goes through rough stretches of play in which they could easily be criticized as "a minor league team". You wouldn't like being taunted as such, and obviously I don't either. Every team sucks at one point or another, some of them in their infancy, and some for extended periods of time, like the Rays. However this cyclical pattern is no reason to levy personal attacks against fans of that team. It doesn't accomplish anything but indicate the person speaking's level of class, and I have come to a pretty good evaluation of you based on this method of judgement.
I believe that, if anything, my argument is better articulated than that of a person who uses the phrases "douchebag", "shut the hell up", "stay the hell off this site", and "pointdexter". Gee, you sure got me on sophistication there.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and as for the Bucs comment
Again, that was not intended to be a cheap shot, rather a point of comparison. I have nothing against the Bears, they are no longer a division rival, and I wish them luck in the playoffs.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
You realize AJ starts for the Sox?
Actually Phil Rogers' wrote that the Sox now have the best catching tandem in the AL. Which is completely wrong. I guess he could have said the Sox now have the least classy tandem though :)
Seriously, if the worst thing Hall has done is rip on a former employer, well that's nothing. Have you read the stories about Tank Johnson?
by hitlesswonder on Dec 18, 2006 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
Well, he'll fit right in
I do like his #'s against LHP, and AJ is another year older, so to be able to spell him with a decent backup is a good thing.
And, really, he IS a backup.
I do take issue that, other than LF, we're done and it's been a successful offseason. We have more young arms, sure, but all are projects, yes? Thus, I'm less than comfy with our pitchers right now, we still need an answer in CF (same projects), and there's ther nagging Crede issue. Color me skeptical right now, though we have done a couple of good things that will affect our '07 positively (though much is addition by subtraction).
Obvioulsy Hall was irritated by what happened..
There was probably some residual anguish from getting traded from the D-Rays in the first place.
On Defense, he actually throws out a pretty good rate of base stealers (better than AJ), and hits LHP pretty good. He is actually a perfect compliment to AJ, and it is the first real backup the Sox have had in a couple of years.
So in 2007, there will be less of a drop off in production when AJ is not playing, and with AJ getting a few more games off, I am sure he will have better second half numbers. Very few available Catchers fit the requirements as close as Hall did.
But it wasn't one comment
It is one thing to put up with an ass who happens to be a half-decent baseball player. Except Hall isn't half-decent, he is a pretty bad baseball player.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 18, 2006 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Toby
However, there was a time where I ran into Hall out in a Chapel Hill bar and with a few drinks under his belt, he remarked to me that he hated everything about being in Tampa. He said he would gladly play a season for nothing if it meant getting traded to a team that cared about anything and that he was actually happy to be in Durham and didn't care if he got called back up or not. He was called up 2 days later.
I'd be surprised if Reed Johnson is available...
Your assessment that Rios has a much bigger upside, he's basically a young Jermaine Dye, but you just get the feeling that the Jays brain does not have the same level of man love for him as they do Johnson.
As trades involving pitchers for fielders are becoming increasingly rare I have the feeling that Vasquez and a decent prospect would be enough to get Rios.
by MarkD on Dec 18, 2006 1:43 PM CST reply actions
There's the issue
That's how I feel..
I would be utterly shocked if that happened.
I can see them squeezing one new arm into the rotation each year.
If the Sox are interested in Rios, they are going to move some young arms. Maybe Phillips, Tracey, and someone like Rogo or Valido.
The Jays want major league talent
I really dislike the idea of going back to finding a fifth starter in spring training, so I'm completely torn. But if Rios could be had straight-up for Buehrle, Vazquez, or Garland, I think the Sox should strongly consider doing it. It's a huge gamble, but the Sox outfield is in pretty dismal shape both for 2007 and especially in 2008. On the other hand, pitching was the weakest part of the club last season and this will only weaken it further. Arrrrgh. Suppan, Weaver, and Mulder are still available as FAs, but they seem to be way overpriced, not good, and hurt respectively.
If the Sox could gotten Rios (or Reed Johnson) for Garcia, I really wish they would've waited that out.
by hitlesswonder on Dec 18, 2006 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
Well
I
PinierNO
He wasn't very highly regarded until he hit the big leagues in '01 with some extra life on his fastball. With the introduction of steroid testing, that live arm disappeared and has never been back even in flashes in any of the last 3 seasons. He's gotten worse for 5 straight seasons. There's no trend in there that is remotely interesting.
Phillips or Haeger could have easily bested his 6.36 ERA in Safeco last year.
i don't like the balancing act
we're pretty much in a win now mode. that doesn't necessarily mean we're trading away young talent to bring in rentals; but that should mean we don't trade away essential pieces of the '07 team for players who aren't likely to provide a similar or better payoff in '07.
Phillips, Tracey, Rogowski, and Valido...
The more patrick protests
Pierzynski - non-tendered -- Jerkwad that nobody wanted.
Garcia - almost non-tendered in '04 for percieved underproduction and too much nightlife.
Jenks - waiver claim -- million dollar arm coming off injury, less than 10 cent brain.
Thornton - days from being DFA'd -- Couldn't find the strikezone before age 29, useless.
Soon we'll be able to add a couple more of Vazquez, Floyd, Sisco to the list.
Patrick is just doing what so many fans and organizations do... He's only focused on what Hall can't do, not what he can do, which is putting the ball in play, hitting lefties, and playing competently behind the plate for 45 starts a year.
Hall badmouthed the D-Rays? so what. I'd be more worried if he had something good to say about an organization seemingly adverse to winning.
Cheat,
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Cherry Picking...
But you don't seem to be understanding that Toby Hall was the best available option for the White Sox, given their needs and salary/playing time figures. I don't know what's so hard to understand. We're not trying to paint Toby Hall into some five-time All Star who will be a five win improvement for the team. But you can't deny that he's an upgrade over a.)last year's group of backups and b.)this years other available options to the Sox.
No, I propose that you look at the actual numbers
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
I'll take the minor league player
After all, we didn't have one of those.
Lefty Ray King gets minor-league deal from Nats...
I would have been all over the fat man at that price.
who's # 3?
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER
santa jenks!
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER
Not to be anal, but...
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml
I'm not jumping for joy
I'm with whoever posted about the real issues concerning CF, LF, bullpen, Crede...AGH!
Hey...does anyone know if the Sox Spring Training site has been moved to Glendale, AZ? Their Web site still has Tucson as the site...so just wondering.
I would be that pain in the ass/gadfly/
To me, this week before Christmas can be best summed up in one word:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Nothing to get wood over. Tweaks are for engineers. I want a Braveheart broadsword to get my blood going!
Merry Christmas to all.
The best thing about the Toby Hall signing...
Hall >>> Alomar / Stewart
'Nuff said.
Yes, clearly I am jaded
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
But you haven't seen
Point Taken
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:35 PM CST up reply actions
Are there no Rays fans for you to banter with?
by Toonderstrook on Dec 23, 2006 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
Sir
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
I was thinking
by JohnGor0 on Dec 21, 2006 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
Back problems in 82 & 83 ended his career
Kevin Millar's his nephew
lollar
by evilcookie on Dec 21, 2006 4:25 PM CST reply actions

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