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All I feel is relief

I haven't been nearly as relentless as Jim has been about the Sox need to fill the backup catcher spot, but as each day ticked by this off-season, I've felt increasingly uneasy about the prospects of another year of Alomar behind the plate. Thankfully, we can all breathe a little bit easier today.

It's hard to get excited about signing a backup catcher -- He'll only get, what, 200 at bats? -- Yet, in many ways, I feel the much same way about the Hall signing as I did back in early '05 when the Sox signed El Duque. After two consecutive seasons (one and a half, anyway) without any production from the backup catcher spot, I was ready for the Sox to overpay for a warm body that should fit nicely on the backend of the roster.

The Sox were in an tough situation with Hall. He could have gone to Philly, where he would have received much more playing time, or maybe even NY to play in pinstripes. From the sound of Kenny's statements, he used the high number of lefties in the Sox division as a major selling point to Hall, which is exactly what I said he should do when I first brought up his name.

The money and years probably helped too.

* * * * *

Reports out of Toronto seem to indicate, thanks to Vernon Wells' new contract, Alex Rios is now on the block. The Jays are looking for a starter to toss into the middle of their rotation.

I'd love to have Rios, and have often brought up his name when preaching patience in the development of Ryan Sweeney. Rios experienced a bit of a breakout last season that was interrupted by the staph infection running through the Jays locker room. I expect him to continue to blossom, much like Jermaine Dye and Magglio Ordonez did after they posted breakout seasons in their age 25 seasons. Rios has so much untapped power in his swing, it just hasn't  fully fleshed itself out yet. I have absolute faith that it will be coming very soon.

While I'd love for that power potential to fully be realized in a White Sox uniform, I don't think the Sox can afford to pay the price it would take to get Rios. There are plenty of other smart people around baseball who see that same potential. One of them will be bold enough to part with a major league pitcher for Rios' peak years.

The Jays may also be shopping Reed Johnson, who played in the same outfield as Aaron Rowand back at Cal State Fullerton. Johnson turned 30 about a week ago, and doesn't have nearly the upside that Rios does, but he also figures to come at a much cheaper price than Rios. If the Jays balk at trading the young, burgeoning slugger, they might be willing to make a low-ceilinged outfielder for low-ceilinged starter swap. Phillips or Haeger, perhaps?

Johnson, for those who don't already know, has some pretty good on base skills against lefties (.301/.371/.435 the last three seasons and .323/.422/.445 last year), and can play all three outfield positions. He's better than our current left-fielder, and would be a nice player to have around in case Anderson flops or as a platoon partner for the aforementioned left fielder in '07 (I don't think he's going anywhere) and Sweeney in '08.

* * * * *

Even Phil Rogers liked the Toby Hall deal. Of course, that was a day after he took a backhanded swipe at the Sox by saying "Rather than moan about the market, the Blue Jays worked hard to re-sign center fielder Vernon Wells, who was a year away from free agency." I guess he didn't get the memo that the Jays were shopping a soon-to-be perennial .900 OPS outfielder.

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"Phillips or Haeger, perhaps?"
I don't consider Heath Phillips to have anywhere near the trade value of Charlie Haeger.  Am I wrong in thinking this?

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2006 1:27 AM CST reply actions  

Haeger >> Phillips
Haeger has way more trade value than Phillips.

by RME JICO on Dec 18, 2006 4:44 AM CST reply actions  

I
agree with ssh and rme. Haeger has some potential.

by beautox on Dec 18, 2006 6:54 AM CST reply actions  

Believe me, from experience
You do NOT want Toby Hall. And I used to be his biggest fan until earlier this week. I formerly could tolerate the fact that he does not produce offensively, at all. I could tolerate the fact that he isn't a good defensive catcher, at all. And I could tolerate him being both of those things and starting for the Rays for five years. Why? Because he was a fan-friendly guy. He was nice with the fans, worked with local charities, and generally seemed to be a good guy.

However he has just turned into a complete ass. He keeps taking swipes at the Devil Rays organization that employed him and his horrible play for five years, calling them a "minor league team" after they offered him a contract and making similarly testy remarks earlier this offseason. He has been just a complete classless asshole, and it honestly pains me because he used to be one of my favorite Rays. However his utter lack of class combined with his poor production make me wonder how he keeps a major league job.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 18, 2006 7:51 AM CST reply actions  

you leave out the part
about it being a minor league contract. i'd be insulted by that, too.

by larry on Dec 18, 2006 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

This comment
Seems to make the assumption that Hall is worth more than a minor league contract, which he is not. He has never posted an OPS over .700 in any full major league season, and has been generally poor on defense.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 18, 2006 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

since when do major-leaguers have a 700 OPS?
our backup catchers posted a .515 OPS last year

anyway, he'll be facing lefties almost exclusively, and against lefties I think he has a higher OPS

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 18, 2006 3:11 PM CST up reply actions  

much higher OPS
well above our friend's appointed line of demarcation, in fact.

by larry on Dec 18, 2006 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Toby Hall's OPS...
Don't you understand that we only care about Hall's stats versus lefties, barring an injury to Pierzynski?  Pierzynski is going to start against most righties.  Hall will start against most lefties we face and his stats versus lefties over the past 3 years are as follows...

303 AB  |  .297 AVG  |  .334 OBP  |  .436 SLG  |  .770 OPS

It was a great signing by Kenny Williams.  Toby Hall got 2-years, $3.65 million while Henry Blanco got 2-years, $5.25 million and Hall is the better player.  Give it a rest, you aren't swaying anyone's opinion.  Listen to Toby and go worry about your "minor league team."

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2006 5:10 PM CST up reply actions  

You coincidentally leave out
The bulk of the playing time he has against lefties, which would encompass the 2002-2003 seasons, in which he was terrible. Hell, he wasn't even good in 2005 against lefties. But if you want to believe skewed numbers that ignore the larger precedent, you go right ahead. I am not going to vouch for the competence of Jim Hendry, and I really don't care if I sway your opinion, but as someone who watched this guy take up a starting position for five seasons, I have my idea of how you'll do. I understand the poor play of your backups, but the gain that Toby Hall brings will merely be an improvement to mediocrity, if that, and this improvement will only appear as such because of the historically bad play of your catchers last year.

Oh, and before you take a shot at my "minor league team", just remember that the White Sox have won exactly one more World Series over the last 89 years and if it hadn't been for some midnight jockeying by the Illinois Legislature, you'd be referring to the Tampa Bay White Sox.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, BTW
Dave Wills is a great announcer. Does an excellent job.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:16 PM CST up reply actions  

On the same note...
...if my aunt had testicles, she'd be my uncle.

by Sox Machine on Dec 20, 2006 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

And boy was that one World Series sweet.
Even seasons with winning records are sweet, aren't they? Oh, well, I guess you don't really know that yet...but someday you will...maybe.
Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 20, 2006 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

no
the historically bad play of your catchers last year

no, it's 'the historically bad play of your backup catchers last year'

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 20, 2006 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess the best you can do is
reminisce about 2004 and how 70 wins kept the Rays out of last place for the only time in franchise history.
Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 20, 2006 5:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I am not trying to argue that the Rays are better
I realize they are not. I cannot make that argument against any major league baseball team. However, my point was, based on the degree of success at Comiskey Park over most of the last nine decades, to attack my team as minor league is simply classless. The White Sox have had their string of losing seasons in a poor ballpark, when this occured (or if it occured, if you are a more recent fan) would you like some Yankee fan calling your team minor league? Of course you wouldn't. It isn't my fault that my hometown team has had no success over the first nine years of its existance, I support them anyways because doing otherwise would destroy any credibility I have as a sports fan. I am also a Vanderbilt athletics fan, thus surely satisfying my masochistic virtues.

My point was more or less that I resent cracks at my team that are either unprovoked, or unrelated to the actual point, and are put in a comment just to be an ass and to compensate for anything useful to say. It isn't original, it isn't relevant, and every team has been there at one point, and will eventually be there again.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice way to lose all credibility
by cheap-shotting the Sox staying in Chicago.  Wow, I bet all kinds of folks are upset by that - perhaps the 2000 fans that generally show up in the worst major league park in all of sports for the Sox-Rays games.  I had just moved to Orlando in 1987 from Oak Park and was PRAYING someone like Bill Veeck would save the day and do what was right - and it happened.  And I would've benefitted greatly, though having to see the Sox in a masoleum for the rest of eternity is similar to listening to your house of cards dialogue that passes for a debate.  So shut the hell up in comparing the Devil Rays alleged major league history with the 1st team chartered in the American League.  How many major league teams have relocated?  Even storied franchises like the Dodgers and Giants have taken the money and run.

Also, if you can't stand the Socratic dialogue and defend your position without the "so's your Mother" argument stay the hell off the site, Douchebag.  

By the way, the Bucs are having a fantastic year.  Congrats on giving us a game Sunday and making it interesting.  At least you beat the spread, Poindexter.

by winningugly on Dec 20, 2006 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Just when I thought you
were getting all soft on us during the holiday season, you go and do something like that...and TOTALLY REDEEM yourself!
Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 20, 2006 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

NEVER soft on the Sox
Can't respect cheap shots unless they are creative/humorous/accurate!

Have a great holiday, Toonder.

by winningugly on Dec 20, 2006 7:37 PM CST up reply actions  

stop feeding the trolls
days ago, this guy posted on his blog that toby hall "actually fits in well with platoons." he's just trying to stir up trouble. ignore him.

by larry on Dec 21, 2006 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

I did?
Please enlighten me as to where I said this, I would be delighted to know about something I wrote, but I am not aware of.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 12:06 AM CST up reply actions  

here
http://www.draysbay.com/story/2006/12/17/14480/305#commenttop

amusingly, you posted this on your site roughly ten minutes before you came back on here posting about how terrible of a deal this was for the sox. obvious troll.

by larry on Dec 23, 2006 12:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Funny
I don't see any comment remotely like what you describe. In fact, I made exactly one comment in that thread, saying.....
I can't understand

How a team could possibly actually plan on giving Hall the amount of playing time proportionate to the backup catcher position. Not only based on his production, but also what he has done to the two previous organizations he has been with.

Please tell me how that sentiment differs in the slightest from what I have said in this thread.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 5:59 PM CST up reply actions  

you're doing a really good job, troll
check down a little further where you make exactly your second comment.
Good point

He actually fits in well with platoons.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Mon Dec 18, 2006 at 03:51:03 PM EST

i am now officially against trading for any d-rays player - or, in fact, signing any player/coach/announcer/ballboy ever affiliated with your organization for the sole reason of preventing you from posting here ever again.

by larry on Dec 23, 2006 6:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I quite honestly do not see that remark
I am staring at the comments of the post, and I just don't see it, logged in.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 24, 2006 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

You must have extraordinarily
selective eyesight, Patty Cake.
Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Dec 25, 2006 12:51 AM CST up reply actions  

re: trop field
i graffiti'd a "GO WHITE SOX" in a hidden, workers-only spot inside that mausoleum (with pics to prove it!), hoping to break some juju.

how the rays justify playing in a dome (which traps IN humidity, especially up in those rings) in an endless summer environment is beyond me. the ray tank in CF is cool, though. the bleachers only in the nosebleeds -- which have a blocked view of the field -- are not.

aaa team playing in a craptacular park. blegh. [link]

by thatshortkid on Dec 21, 2006 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Simple
The air conditioning in the stadium regulates the temperature at a 72 degree high. There has only been one time in which the air conditioning has actually been broken within the stadium, to my recollection, and coincidentally, that came during a series against the White Sox. The reason they play in a dome is simple. Florida summers are death on baseball games. Staying outside the hummidity for three hours to watch a team like the Rays (there, I said it) is not a prospect that most people envy, and the thundershowers that spring up over the Bay every summer afternoon would make rainouts an almost daily occurance, like they are in South Florida.

Personally, I agree. I don't really like the dome, and I wish for a retractable roof stadium the next time stadium talks come up. This allows the team to take advantage of beautiful Florida days, but keep out the typical Florida summer day. Hopefully this will become a reality.

The ray tank was a new addition last year, they did a good job with it to replace a kids play area that no one ever used.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 12:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Classy
Worst major league park? I assume you have not been to the Metrodome, Shea, Joe Robbie Stadium, or the Oakland Coliseum.

My point was not intended to be a cheap shot, and I see that it has come off as such. I do regret this, as it is not my intention to come onto an opposing team's site and attack its fans. Please do understand this, and I apologize if my statement was misconstrued that way.

The way my comment was intended to be taken was as a comparison. Chicago's lack of success over almost 90 years and the period in which they almost lost their team is intended to be a point of comparison. And that is that every team goes through rough stretches of play in which they could easily be criticized as "a minor league team". You wouldn't like being taunted as such, and obviously I don't either. Every team sucks at one point or another, some of them in their infancy, and some for extended periods of time, like the Rays. However this cyclical pattern is no reason to levy personal attacks against fans of that team. It doesn't accomplish anything but indicate the person speaking's level of class, and I have come to a pretty good evaluation of you based on this method of judgement.

I believe that, if anything, my argument is better articulated than that of a person who uses the phrases "douchebag", "shut the hell up", "stay the hell off this site", and "pointdexter". Gee, you sure got me on sophistication there.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh, and as for the Bucs comment
You wanna talk cheap shots? Again, I don't like to engage in them, especially on the host city's website. But I assume you know that the team you are referring to has won a Super Bowl title in the last five years, has six playoff appearances over the last 10, and has actually won a playoff game since the 1994 season.

Again, that was not intended to be a cheap shot, rather a point of comparison. I have nothing against the Bears, they are no longer a division rival, and I wish them luck in the playoffs.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 12:05 AM CST up reply actions  

You realize AJ starts for the Sox?
So it's not like classiness has been big concern for Sox management when they bring in catchers.

Actually Phil Rogers' wrote that the Sox now have the best catching tandem in the AL. Which is completely wrong. I guess he could have said the Sox now have the least classy tandem though :)

Seriously, if the worst thing Hall has done is rip on a former employer, well that's nothing. Have you read the stories about Tank Johnson?

by hitlesswonder on Dec 18, 2006 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, he'll fit right in
since we have the biggest starting C ass in the majors!  Thus, no "ass-dropoff" with Hall behind (no pun intended) the plate.

I do like his #'s against LHP, and AJ is another year older, so to be able to spell him with a decent backup is a good thing.

And, really, he IS a backup.  

I do take issue that, other than LF, we're done and it's been a successful offseason.  We have more young arms, sure, but all are projects, yes?  Thus, I'm less than comfy with our pitchers right now, we still need an answer in CF (same projects), and there's ther nagging Crede issue.  Color me skeptical right now, though we have done a couple of good things that will affect our '07 positively (though much is addition by subtraction).

by winningugly on Dec 18, 2006 9:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Obvioulsy Hall was irritated by what happened..
but give the guy a break.  He made one stupid remark that he probably shouldn't have made.  It happens all the time.  But if the guy was a fan favorite, and a nice guy who worked with charities; making one comment after he felt like he was wronged doesn't make him a classless 4sshole.

There was probably some residual anguish from getting traded from the D-Rays in the first place.

On Defense, he actually throws out a pretty good rate of base stealers (better than AJ), and hits LHP pretty good.  He is actually a perfect compliment to AJ, and it is the first real backup the Sox have had in a couple of years.

So in 2007, there will be less of a drop off in production when AJ is not playing, and with AJ getting a few more games off, I am sure he will have better second half numbers.  Very few available Catchers fit the requirements as close as Hall did.

by RME JICO on Dec 18, 2006 11:30 AM CST reply actions  

But it wasn't one comment
He made multiple comments to that effect. He made his first one when Los Angeles clinched the division title, saying that the Rays "shouldn't even exist". He made similar remarks when the Rays withdrew their support for his charity function (which they were still willing to sponsor despite him not being on the team), and then made the minor league remark last week. He bitched continually about playing time in Los Angeles and the Dodgers organization.

It is one thing to put up with an ass who happens to be a half-decent baseball player. Except Hall isn't half-decent, he is a pretty bad baseball player.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 18, 2006 3:05 PM CST up reply actions  

Toby
I was working for Durham in 2002 when the Rays sent down Hall for a brief period after an awful start to the season.  He was a nice guy and quite approachable, although not the sharpest tool in the box.  He kind of reminded me of the hick catcher in Major League 2 that couldn't throw the ball.  This was a big change from other guys who were sent back down (Huff and Sandberg come to mind) that were nothing but pricks to everybody involved.

However, there was a time where I ran into Hall out in a Chapel Hill bar and with a few drinks under his belt, he remarked to me that he hated everything about being in Tampa.  He said he would gladly play a season for nothing if it meant getting traded to a team that cared about anything and that he was actually happy to be in Durham and didn't care if he got called back up or not.  He was called up 2 days later.

by Bull Pain on Dec 18, 2006 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd be surprised if Reed Johnson is available...
Being in Canada I've seen a lot of Alex Rios and Reed Johnson.  I believe J.P. Riccardi is more likely to trade Rios than Johnson as on numerous occasions during the season Riccardi spoke some great love for Reed. And what's not to love, a hard nosed player like Rowand, without the injury issues, very flexible both in where he can play in the field and where he can bat in the lineup, does everything well, include hit a whole bunch better than his nearest match (Rowand).

Your assessment that Rios has a much bigger upside, he's basically a young Jermaine Dye, but you just get the feeling that the Jays brain does not have the same level of man love for him as they do Johnson.

As trades involving pitchers for fielders are becoming increasingly rare I have the feeling that Vasquez and a decent prospect would be enough to get Rios.

Canada's finest

by MarkD on Dec 18, 2006 1:43 PM CST reply actions  

There's the issue
Even though I think Rios would be an excellent addition to the Sox, I don't think I could pull the trigger and force one of Haeger/Floyd/Phillips/Broadway into the rotation in April. Haeger might be able to win 10 games on his own, but he'll probably lose 12 all by himself too.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 18, 2006 2:09 PM CST up reply actions  

That's how I feel..
There is no way the Sox go from 5+ BMAC in 2006 to 3+ BMAC and Floyd/Haeger/Phillips/Broadway in 2007.

I would be utterly shocked if that happened.

I can see them squeezing one new arm into the rotation each year.

If the Sox are interested in Rios, they are going to move some young arms.  Maybe Phillips, Tracey, and someone like Rogo or Valido.

by RME JICO on Dec 18, 2006 2:24 PM CST up reply actions  

The Jays want major league talent
All reports all that they are thinking of trading Rios becuase they desperately want another quality starting pitcher. An offer of fringey AAA pitchers and Rogo/Valido (neither of whom is likely to do anything in the bigs) will not get anything done. That's also why I don't think a lesser offer will get Reed Johnson; the Jays are trying to fill a specific need. They have enough AAAA players of their own.

I really dislike the idea of going back to finding a fifth starter in spring training, so I'm completely torn. But if Rios could be had straight-up for Buehrle, Vazquez, or Garland, I think the Sox should strongly consider doing it. It's a huge gamble, but the Sox outfield is in pretty dismal shape both for 2007 and especially in 2008. On the other hand, pitching was the weakest part of the club last season and this will only weaken it further. Arrrrgh. Suppan, Weaver, and Mulder are still available as FAs, but they seem to be way overpriced, not good, and hurt respectively.

If the Sox could gotten Rios (or Reed Johnson) for Garcia, I really wish they would've waited that out.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 18, 2006 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Well
said. No way we'll get Rios for anything less than you mentioned. We may have to take that chance...that is, deal one of the starters you mentioned...think about it...Rios will be under control for four years and has a ceiling as high or higher than...well, than Chris Young...Garland is the guy I'd deal...than it is mandatory to extend Buehrle. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it is something they cannot pass up.

by dantesox on Dec 18, 2006 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I
forgot to add...I'd then sign Joel Piniero to a two year deal, but only if that can be done for 10 million total, or less....this accomplishes two things: 1) gives us insurance as an experienced no.5 starter with some upside  2)if he goes to the pen, he is a start at getting some balance in there, as we are looking at a pen that overall is potentially one lacking in command=high BB/IP ratios. Piniero, though very hittable of late, shows decent control and a better possibility for command vs. the others.

by dantesox on Dec 18, 2006 3:54 PM CST up reply actions  

PinierNO
The guys at LL and USSMariner have ostensibly classified Piniero's only decent seasons as PED influenced apparitions.

He wasn't very highly regarded until he hit the big leagues in '01 with some extra life on his fastball. With the introduction of steroid testing, that live arm disappeared and has never been back even in flashes in any of the last 3 seasons. He's gotten worse for 5 straight seasons. There's no trend in there that is remotely interesting.

Phillips or Haeger could have easily bested his 6.36 ERA in Safeco last year.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 18, 2006 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I
guess what I wanted to get to was the rationale for such a signing....I'm not that invested in Piniero himself, but a veteran who may give you what I alluded to as missing before.

by dantesox on Dec 18, 2006 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

i don't like the balancing act
this team has been built to win championships in 2005-2007 - the construction is obvious. while this move probably would be a good move long-term, i don't think it's a good one overall. let's face reality, unless we splurge some serious money or something else magically changes, i don't really see us competing for a championship in '08 and probably '09. trading another of our starters would be a pretty big gamble and one that i believe would sink our chances to win in '07. i'm not willing to accept that.

we're pretty much in a win now mode. that doesn't necessarily mean we're trading away young talent to bring in rentals; but that should mean we don't trade away essential pieces of the '07 team for players who aren't likely to provide a similar or better payoff in '07.

by larry on Dec 18, 2006 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Phillips, Tracey, Rogowski, and Valido...
Throw all that crap together for Rios and expect to hear hysterical laughter from the Blue Jays.

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2006 5:15 PM CST up reply actions  

The more patrick protests
the more convinced I am (and it didn't take any convincing to begin with) that this a great signing.

Pierzynski - non-tendered -- Jerkwad that nobody wanted.
Garcia - almost non-tendered in '04 for percieved underproduction and too much nightlife.
Jenks - waiver claim -- million dollar arm coming off injury, less than 10 cent brain.
Thornton - days from being DFA'd -- Couldn't find the strikezone before age 29, useless.

Soon we'll be able to add a couple more of Vazquez, Floyd, Sisco to the list.

Patrick is just doing what so many fans and organizations do... He's only focused on what Hall can't do, not what he can do, which is putting the ball in play, hitting lefties, and playing competently behind the plate for 45 starts a year.

Hall badmouthed the D-Rays? so what. I'd be more worried if he had something good to say about an organization seemingly adverse to winning.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 18, 2006 4:06 PM CST reply actions  

Cheat,
The problem is, I am focusing on what Hall can't do because that's the majority of things you can say about his play on the diamond! I can understand how a .515 OPS can set the threshold pretty low for "competence" in the South Side. If you want to believe a cherry picked sample size of at bats, you may go right ahead. And while it may seem prudent for someone to badmouth the Rays organization, you must remember that the Devil Rays gave Hall five years of practically nonstop starting experience, so if the Rays are a "minor league team" then Hall is a "minor league player"!

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Cherry Picking...
WTF are you talking about?  What, do you want us to look at his numbers vs righties?  What would be the point of that?  He's coming here to play against lefties.  I understand that there will be times where he will, in fact, see righties.  I'm not at all blinded by that.

But you don't seem to be understanding that Toby Hall was the best available option for the White Sox, given their needs and salary/playing time figures.  I don't know what's so hard to understand.  We're not trying to paint Toby Hall into some five-time All Star who will be a five win improvement for the team.  But you can't deny that he's an upgrade over a.)last year's group of backups and b.)this years other available options to the Sox.

by CWSKeith on Dec 20, 2006 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

No, I propose that you look at the actual numbers
And the actual numbers I cite indicate a .722 career OPS against lefties and .685 career OPS. Those may be an improvement over free agent/trade options and those in your minor league system, and certainly an improvement over the options of last year for your ballclub, but it is hardly acceptable as compared to league average.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I'll take the minor league player
who posted Hall's line against LHP, which just so happens to be against major league competition.

After all, we didn't have one of those.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 20, 2006 8:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Lefty Ray King gets minor-league deal from Nats...
King gets minor-league deal from Nats
Left-handed reliever Ray King has reached agreement on a minor-league contract with the Washington Nationals with an invitation to big-league camp. He will earn a base salary of $850,000 if he makes the Nationals' Opening Day roster.

I would have been all over the fat man at that price.

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2006 6:14 PM CST reply actions  

yeah
but i'm not sure he would have been all over the AL. his WHIP has been nasty bad the past couple years.

by larry on Dec 18, 2006 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

who's # 3?
[Phil Rogers]
Carrying three catchers is unlikely, but Pierzynski and Hall could get some at-bats as the designated hitter or as pinch-hitters if Guillen is willing to identify somebody as an emergency catcher. Sounds like another job for Pablo Ozuna.
HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 18, 2006 7:21 PM CST reply actions  

santa jenks!
[Scott Merkin]
"It's unbelievable," said Christine O'Reilly, the White Sox director of community relations, with a smile when talking about the players' involvement with this holiday celebration. "I was watching Bobby Jenks having fun with the kids and firing hot dogs at them -- not at 103 mph, thank goodness.
HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Dec 18, 2006 10:02 PM CST reply actions  

Not to be anal, but...
The hardest Jenks has ever thrown was 102.0 MPH on 8/27/2005 against the Mariners at Safeco Field.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2006 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Being anal
Can't help it, can you?  Fot one freaking mph, the joke is destroyed.

Buzz.  Kill.

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2006 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not jumping for joy
but he's better than Grandpa Alomar...I hope.

I'm with whoever posted about the real issues concerning CF, LF, bullpen, Crede...AGH!

Hey...does anyone know if the Sox Spring Training site has been moved to Glendale, AZ? Their Web site still has Tucson as the site...so just wondering.

by tailgater on Dec 19, 2006 3:54 PM CST reply actions  

2007 is in Tucson
It won't be until '08 at the earliest.

by Sox Machine on Dec 19, 2006 4:12 PM CST up reply actions  

I would be that pain in the ass/gadfly/
turd in the punch bowl.

To me, this week before Christmas can be best summed up in one word:

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Nothing to get wood over.  Tweaks are for engineers.  I want a Braveheart broadsword to get my blood going!

Merry Christmas to all.

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2006 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

The best thing about the Toby Hall signing...
is that everyone knew it was a good one, except for one jaded Devil Rays fan.

Hall >>> Alomar / Stewart

'Nuff said.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2006 8:02 PM CST reply actions  

Yes, clearly I am jaded
What would I know, having watched the man play every day for the last five years.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 20, 2006 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

But you haven't seen
Stewart or the corpse of Sandy Alomar like we have.    Hall is just fine as a backup catcher for a lefty hitting starter.  Stewart is good defensively, but couldn't hit at all in Charlotte, an extreme hitters park.  The reality is that if AJ gets hurt, at the very least Hall provides replacement level production on an every day basis.  Stewart probably can't and Alomar certainly can't.  AJ crashed and burned last year after they picked up Sandy.  Some extra time off is a good thing.

by Bull Pain on Dec 21, 2006 11:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Point Taken
I am not doubting the improvement Hall poses over the options you had last year, I am confident he will be an improvement on those players. Whether that means an improvement to league average, I very much doubt that.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 22, 2006 11:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Sir
There are many Rays fans that I banter with, and I am doing in multiple places in multiple threads, on several different websites. I just happen to be bantering here as well.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Dec 23, 2006 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Can we coax
Steve Christmas or Jim Essian out of retirement?

by tailgater on Dec 20, 2006 1:35 PM CST reply actions  

I was thinking
Tom Egan, or Wayne Nordhagen.

by JohnGor0 on Dec 21, 2006 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Back problems in 82 & 83 ended his career
I was bummed when Hemond sent him to Toronto for Aurelio Rodriguez, but the timing was perfect.

by asinwreck on Dec 21, 2006 11:15 PM CST up reply actions  

lollar
now that would really be a corpse, not just a slow-moving, poor-hitting 40-somtething year old man; although he's probably better defensively then alomar too ...
It isn't a low ceiling...it's a high floor

by evilcookie on Dec 21, 2006 4:25 PM CST reply actions  

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