Reds make terrible trade

by Bull Pain on Jul 13, 2006 2:51 PM CDT

Cincinnati gets:

Bill Bray
Gary Majewski
Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

Washington gets:

Austin Kearns
Felipe Lopez
Ryan Wagner

This is insane by Cincy. Two solid starters for nobody of consequence. Hell, adding Clayton makes them instantly worse. Even worse, it makes Jim Bowden look intelligent.

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wow

I can't figure this one out.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Jul 13, 2006 3:06 PM CDT reply actions

Wow...

Even more laughable is that some people on Reds Reporter are actually DEFENDING the trade -- "In Wayne We Trust", they say.

If Kenny made a move like this, I'd be on my way to 35th and Shields with a hammer.

by CWSKeith on Jul 13, 2006 3:17 PM CDT reply actions

Krivsky.....

has done an excellent job, but this one is a "head scratcher."

by stanchar on Jul 13, 2006 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions

I mean come on

Majewski has terrible peripherals and should blow up moving from RFK to Cincy. Bray is ok, but young and unproven (which sounds a lot like Wagner, execpt Wagner has better stuff). Clayton is utter crap as we all know and Harris is junk as the Cubs fans know. Thompson is a decent prospect, but not too special. Funny thing is, the Nats just became the 2nd best team in the NL East and maybe one of the top 5 or 6 in the whole NL.

by Bull Pain on Jul 13, 2006 3:27 PM CDT reply actions

Krivsky

At first I thought he wanted to get as many reject Twins as possible. Now I realize he is just insane.

by Tdogg on Jul 13, 2006 4:22 PM CDT reply actions

i'm not going to slam this deal

everyone has been saying it's a seller's market. the reds needed bullpen help. they got it.

i personally like majewski. maybe because i remember when he was in the sox organization and was traded away and i was pissed. then we got him back. then we lost him again. and i wouldn't say his numbers at RFK have been markedly different than they were away, certainly not to suggest he's going to "blow up."

by larry on Jul 13, 2006 6:16 PM CDT reply actions

Majewski

Actually has a better road split this year. His perirepheals are TERRIBLE. I cannot say that any louder. He is well below league averages in K/9 and K/BB. The only thing he does marginal is not walk guys.

His G/F ratio is way up this year and his BABIB is way down. His HR/F is also freakishly low.

He's relatively young at 26 and I guess he has some upside, but he's certainly nothing special.

by madvillian on Jul 13, 2006 10:00 PM CDT reply actions

the reds pen

is last in the NL in ERA. something like 5.25 or so. on the other hand, they're tops in offense (OPS). they play in a division with two of the worst pitching teams in the league (brewers and pirates) and the rest of the teams are nothing to be scared of pitching-wise. it seems to me (and probably the reds management) that they could give up a little offense to get that bullpen's ERA down. even if these guys' peripherals go up in cincy, the three guys they've added (including everyday eddie) are going to do that. the reds obviously see an opportunity to make the playoffs this year. they gave up a whole lot to do so but, if they make it in, it will be worth it.

another thing in their mind was how they're 2-8 in their last ten games. they had to make a move now or else they could have been out of it by the end of the month. i think things will be even more of a seller's market in a couple weeks so it was probably good to strike now.

by larry on Jul 13, 2006 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't get this White Flag Trade crap

The White Flag really improved our team, but in this case WTF?!!?!

They gave up a ton to get relief pitching for this year, and that might be fine, but they somehow managed to decimate their current lineup at the same time.

It's a White Flag trade that sells out the future to try to win in the not now.

?!!!?!?

by xian on Jul 13, 2006 10:30 PM CDT reply actions

Yep

They should have just stood pat. This smacks of a desperation move and I don't see why they trade their best offensive pieces, essentially forgetting that run production is half the battle.

It's like the saved their arm to cut their nose off, or however the hell it goes.

by madvillian on Jul 13, 2006 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions

their best offensive pieces?

you sure value those guys pretty highly, huh. i think they've got plenty of offense left. you know, griffey, freel, and dunn. kearns was good this year but lopez wasn't.

you're all acting like trades should be about getting something for nothing. or only give up prospects. but not too good of prospects, of course, because that's giving up the future. can't have your cake and eat it, too.

by larry on Jul 13, 2006 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions

disagree

Kearns is posting a line of:
AVG .274 | HR 16 | RBI 50 | OBP .351 | SLG .492
He plays right, but could probably play center. Also, he is only 26.

Felipe Lopez is posting a line of:
AVG .268 | HR 9 | RBI 30 | OBP .355 | SLG .394
I've heard his defense at short isn't very good, but he does get on base and last year he posted the following:
AVG .291 | HR 23 | RBI 85 | OBP .352 | SLG .486
Oh, and he is also only 26.

Perhaps an equivalent could be Crede & Uribe for those 4 from the Nationals. Kearns & Crede are both guys who underachieved and now are putting up identical OPSs. Lopez is better with the bat then Uribe, but Uribe has a better glove. Also, Lopez & Kearns are younger, so I think all in all, it evens out and becomes a decent analogy.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Jul 14, 2006 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions

Hehe that's funny

i think they've got plenty of offense left. you know, griffey, freel, and dunn.

Funny when one of your best offensive players doesn't even have an everyday spot... Clayton is taking over at short (barf), and Denorfia is taking over in right.

Oh, yeah, and I'll repeat again -- Royce Clayton is taking over at SS (hee hee hee).

Really, a bad, bad trade from Cincy.

by CWSKeith on Jul 14, 2006 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions

those were

two of the nationals better prospects (bray and thompson) that they received. i wouldn't say they sold out the future at all. they didn't give up any prospects of note. wagner seems like a bust. they might have sold out the present, though. we'll see if the reds GM got the formula right in his addition and subtraction. it's a bold move.

by larry on Jul 13, 2006 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions

true

Bray and Thompson were both probably top 15 prospects in that organization...although the Nationals have arguably the worst farm system in the league.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Jul 14, 2006 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions

i saw them rated

as being between 5-10 in their organization. not great prospects but probably will be major leaguers.

BA rated the Nats as 24th; probably pertinent here is that the Reds were dead last and what little talent they did have is in A. this obviously suggests that if the Reds wanted to get some pitching, they were going to be hard-pressed to do it with anything other than guys already on their major league roster. also, by getting some of the Nats prospects, they helped their near major league level talent pool. i don't think this deal is as bad as first blush suggests. but the Reds better be in the hunt for the rest of the year or this GM is going to be in a world of trouble. acquiring arroyo and phillips will only protect this guy so much in the eyes of reds fans.

by larry on Jul 14, 2006 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions

BA

Does BA's list include Zimmerman on the prospect list?

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Jul 14, 2006 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions

oh yeah

number 1. every list i've seen for the Nats has him there.

by larry on Jul 14, 2006 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions

BA pre-seaspn

Bray was #7. Thompson was #9. The general BA response to this trade was of the "holy crap Jim Bowden just won one" variety.

by Bull Pain on Jul 14, 2006 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions

what's crazy

is he might actually 'win' the Sori deal too. He should have never included sledge, or the prospect, but he'll probably be able to spin Sori into more value now with all the bidders he's reportedly getting.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 14, 2006 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions

alright

The reason I ask is that the Nationals were ranked with the 24th best farm system with one of the top 5 prospects in all of baseball. My point is that now that Zimmerman is a full time Major Leaguer, that farm system is really, really bad.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Jul 14, 2006 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions