Pimpin' is easy, but beating the D-Rays isn't

by The Cheat on Aug 29, 2006 11:07 PM CDT in White Sox Game Recaps

The Devil Rays came into Chicago winners of just one in their last twenty on the road. Their starting pitcher didn't make it out of the first, issuing 5 walks on his way to spotting the Sox a 7 run lead. They failed to turn a double play that allowed the Sox to score 4 runs in the second inning, and BJ Upton threw another ball into CF that allowed the Sox to tack on another insurance run late in the contest. Yet they still forced the Sox to use 5 pitchers including Bobby Jenks, who recorded his league leading 37th save in 1-2-3 fashion.

The D-Rays did their best to make this a nice, easy, quick victory for the Sox, but Freddy Garcia and the back-end of the bullpen was having none of it. Freddy had himself a typical Freddy outing, steadily letting the Rays back into the game. Thankfully, Jermaine Dye and the offense had themselves a typical offensive night nullifying Freddy's attempts to give the game away.

* * * * *

The other day, I made fun of the Sox sneaking Jerry Owned onto the major league roster through a rather large loophole that I don't really understand. Putting aside my snark for a second, and given the way Ozzie lets handedness dictate how he runs his bullpen, they really need to add a second lefty to before the deadline on Thursday. Neal Cotts has gone from undervalued to lefty set-up man to unreliable to downright scary. I wasn't even comfortable when he entered the game with a 6-run lead tonight, and with good reason. About 20 pitches into his outing, he had failed to record an out, walked one, and given up a painfully predictable HR.

It's amazing how quickly things change. Months ago, I never could have imagined that I would be wishing for Boone Logan to be put on the Sox in favor of Neal Cotts, who was the second most valuable bullpen arm in the post-season last year. Cliff Politte, the most valuable bullpen arm during the regular season in '05, didn't make it much past the All-Star game. Hermanson will be back, but only as a gesture of gratitude for his effort last season and mutual respect between he and the organization. The crazy volatility of relief pitchers is part of the reason I was against giving up Tyler Lumsden for Mike MacDougal, but I struggle to imagine the Sox making the post-season without him.

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Comments

As I mentioned in the game thread,

Cotts ERA = 11.57 for August.

by southsidefan on Aug 29, 2006 11:25 PM CDT reply actions

as I mentioned in the gamethread

Freddy Garcia is the new Jeff Weaver.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Aug 29, 2006 11:26 PM CDT reply actions

I agree with your assessment.

by southsidefan on Aug 29, 2006 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Oh, but Weaver is making only

$8,325,000.

by southsidefan on Aug 29, 2006 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Clearing up some stuff

Cotts has all of his options left, so those of screaming "DFA!" can shut it.

In order for Boone to be eligible for the post season, he has to be on the roster by September 1 or the Sox have to DL one of their pitchers, opening up a spot for a K-Rod style replacement.

Cotts can be that DL, or they can use one of his options to send him to AAA, though I'm unsure if the rules would allow him to pitch in the AAA post-season. They probably consider him a ringer if he doesn't have a certain amount of time on the Knights roster.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Aug 29, 2006 11:30 PM CDT reply actions

Specifics

Be damned. I just want him off the roster so Ozzie can't use him anymore. This is a pretty reactionary post, but damn -- Cotts has fallen hard and fast. Last year his periphereals and advanced stats indicated he was in for a bit of a fall, but I don't think anyone saw anything like this.

by madvillian on Aug 29, 2006 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions

yep

CAN CORA

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Aug 30, 2006 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Unrelated

Roy Oswalt reportedly signed a 5/$73M extension with the Stros. I figured Barry Zito to get 5/75 this off-season.

Just bringing this up RE: Mark Buerhle. He'll be looking at a very similar contract in '08.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Aug 29, 2006 11:38 PM CDT reply actions

I'd try and lock him up this offseason

Do you think that, coming off of his worst season as a White Sock, the Sox can shave a million or two off of what Buehrle would have gotten if he would've put up his usual 230 IP of a 3.50 ERA?

And, what would you give him at this point? Would 5/$50 be enough? Would you hand out that type of contract to Buehrle?

by CWSKeith on Aug 30, 2006 12:07 AM CDT reply actions

I don't think it'd be enough

And I can't imagine the Sox going for 5 years.

They have a philosophy as on organization of not handing out contracts in excess of 3-years to pitchers. The lone exception is the 4/50+ offer to Colon, and I know KW had to beg Jerry for that. I believe the reason has to do with insurance costs, and obviously the fact that almost all major league pitchers have enough scar tissue in their shoulders and elbows to fail a physical.

I think they should try a rich 4-year contract in the area of the Colon offer (Remember you're going to have to beat his $9.5M option that the Sox hold next year, so even averaging 10M a year won't be enough) I obviously wouldn't do anything right now, but if Buehrle proves healthy down the stretch, you've got to try to get him locked up at less than he would make on the FA market, and hope that you can get it done with just a 4-year deal.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Aug 30, 2006 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions

...dotdotdot

You struggle to imagine the post-season period, don't you? ;)

I felt the same chill when Neal entered the game as you did, now that I've said the first part.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 12:21 AM CDT reply actions

I don't struggle to imagine the post-season

but when I imagine it, there aren't any starts by pitchers named Freddy Garcia or relief appearances by Neal Cotts. I still have a hard time picturing #56 on the hill for Sox too.

It's all Garland, McCarthy, Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal in my dreams.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Aug 30, 2006 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Thornton

I bet you never thought you would be having dreams of Matt Thornton, more likely nightmares. But I digress its great to see him turning his career around and being under the sox control until '09.

by beautox on Aug 30, 2006 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Tombstone Piledriver!

Didn't you just embalm the Sox' playoff hopes and parade their tomb for all to see? ;)

My post-season involves Jose Contreras, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland and Freddy Garcia. I don't give up on my pitchers after bad outings. Javier, on the other hand, I don't trust because he's proven horseshit in his career. Freddy I don't particularly trust, either, because he's got no fastball anymore and his junk isn't trashy enough, but you've got to have four starters.

Still, I have faith in this team. They're a good team of top pitchers (even if their ERAs don't show it) with a strong bullpen and a strong offense.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 12:33 AM CDT reply actions

You have to have 4 starters indeed

And one of them should be McCarthy. Bmac over Garcia is about as obvious an upgrade as you can make.

by illinikrush on Aug 30, 2006 2:06 AM CDT up reply actions

"He's not fucking Cy Young!"

They said the same thing about El Duque last year.

In this year, at this time, Garcia deserves to start, and Brandon be a reliever. That's just 2006 for you and your boy. Get over it.

Brandon can wait in long relief.

But, honestly, I don't have the faith in him that everyone else does. Even when he's on in his career, he's going to be a gopher-ball machine. He was in the minors, he is as a reliever, and he will be in the Major Leagues, too. Brandon McCarthy is not a number one starter.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions

"Garcia deserves to start"

Why, exactly?

Oh, right, because he's going to decide when the games are "big", flip a switch, and vua-la, we'll have Game 4 of the World Series-type starts from Freddy the rest of the way.

I appreciate that there's some more optimism on the board, but your posts, for the most part, are boardering fanboy. Which is okay, I guess, but that's not a lot of people's way, so it's going to be tough to force it upon them, like you are seemingly trying to do.

by CWSKeith on Aug 30, 2006 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Blah blah

I'm not being a fanboy. I'm with Ozzie all the way on this. There's a difference.

You guys are being fanboys from the other direction, in favor of Brandon while I am a fan of Ozzie and, yeah, Garcia.

I've been as critical of anyone of Garcia on SoxTalk, for what it's worth. I'm on record as saying that I wish someone would punch him in the face and teach him a lesson. Like those Hepatitis C ads on Chicago buses. "If Hep. C. were attacking your face instead of your liver, you'd fight back."

But still. I think everyone who loves Brandon so much should take a step back and say, "Well, he's been in the bullpen a year, and has been stretched out. He obviously has no consistent feel for his pitches, judging by his appearances this year. Why should he be starting?"

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions

i don't understand

it is a discussion of:

Freddy Garcia, who has been bad all year, and obviously doesn't have the same "stuff" he had last year.

Versus

Brandon McCarthy, who at his worst this year, has been Freddy Garcia. At his best, which has been recently, he has had #2 stuff. Ohh, and he still has potential.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Aug 30, 2006 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions

Have you seen Garcia and McCarthy pitch lately?

Here you go: McCarthy will never be a number 1 starter. The Sox will be lucky if he turns out to be a starter who can consistently put up a 4.5 ERA in the AL.

That being said, he's a better starting pitcher than Freddy right now. And he could certainly match what Vazquez and Contreras have done over the last month as well. The Sox would have a better chance to make the playoffs with him in the rotation.

McCarthy has a WHIP of 1.16, best on the staff. Since early July he has a 2.57 ERA, 7 K/9 and 1.3 HR/9. The HR numbers are bad, but Garcia's at 1.4 HR/9 (5.6 ERA) over that same span. So whatever.

by hitlesswonder on Aug 30, 2006 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions

By the way...

McCarthy has better numbers across the board (except HR/9) than Santana did at a comparable point in his career when he was being used mostly in relief. Better minor league numbers too.

I'm not saying that McCarthy will end up being anything more than a decent innings-eater, but going by his stats to date (fantastic minor league numbers, very good major league numbers posted mostly in relief), he's got the pedigree to be an absolute stud.

by BridgeportJoe on Aug 30, 2006 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions

How can anyone make steadfast predictions about

Bmac, a young pitcher who has yet to play a full season as a starter? Yes, we have some indications of his ability and tendencies, but he has many years ahead of him to learn and grow. He may be below average, average, or above average: that is what is exciting about new players.

Relatedly, sticking with "veterans" who continually perform poorly such that they can work their way out of their funk has been frustrating to watch this year. The problem is, as you point out, we don't have real options as to how to deal with this problem and we are forced to go with our 5 starters regardless of their lack of consistent, quality starts. That is 2006 for you.

by southsidefan on Aug 30, 2006 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions

you're right

about BMac not being a #1 starter. but we don't need him to be. he'd be great as a 4 or a 5.

by Senator Konerko on Aug 30, 2006 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions

I could care less

What the starting pitcher's name is, or what he's done in the past (i.e. starting in the majors vs been in long relief and will start next year).

I'm all for who's the better pitcher...who will give us a better chance to win a game. And what the hell is this #1 starter stuff? That's irrelevant.

Look at the numbers. Plus, have you watched them pitch lately?

I can't believe this is a conversation, especially after last night.

by illinikrush on Aug 30, 2006 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Whatever

Orlando Hernandez + the Playoffs. 2005. Brandon. That's all I have to look at.

I'm with Ozzie.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Um

Orlando Hernandez is not on the White Sox.

You haven't backed Freddy once, only tried to knock Brandon. Pretty telling.

by illinikrush on Aug 30, 2006 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Remember last season?

It was hard to trust El Duque, he seemed finished. And he was, as a starter, at the time. But given how dominant Vasquez seems to start games, I think he could be an impact arm out of the pen in the post-season. If we fight the Yankees with Garcia vs. some random baddie yankee starter, it could be for a quick trip to the bullpen in a 8-5 game in the 4th. Vasquez could be the man for 3-4 innings.

by Pander on Aug 30, 2006 2:56 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree entirely :)

Mmmhm hmmm.

I'm glad Ozzie didn't give in to the Lynch Mob insisting on McCarthy.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions

The Yankees thought the same thing

Except replace "Garcia" with "Kevin Brown."

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Aug 30, 2006 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah, well

Even without his fastball, Freddy's better than Brown.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions

Wasn't Tombstone Piledriver

a 70s band?

by southsidefan on Aug 30, 2006 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions

Maybe

But I was referring the Wrestling move.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Minor correction

Fossum went 1 2/3 innings.

by GhostOfRooney on Aug 30, 2006 2:25 AM CDT reply actions

just curious....

Garland has been fantastic but doesn't this have an end to it ?

What if his hot streak ends in a week or two ? Then, do we even have one good starter right now ?

That's why I say....get McCarthy in the rotation now.

by White Sox Randy on Aug 30, 2006 6:57 AM CDT reply actions

You say wrong

I had to say it.

And you're right: Garland's awesome streak of Aceness is going to end. He's not a long-term ace. When he's got a feel for his pitches, he's marvelous, but when he doesn't, he's April-to-late-June-of-2006.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions

Depressing win

Garcia, Cotts, and Riske looked like garbage the same night that Matt Garza looked like an ace while losing to KC. It's depressing that right now, Garza would be the best starter on the Sox staff. So, despite the win, I'm even less hopeful of the Sox sneaking into wild card.

The Sox really need a starter besides Garland to step up. Unfortunately, I think the only pitcher capable of doing that is going to be sitting in the bullpen, waiting till after Contereras or Vazquez give 6 runs to come into the game.

by hitlesswonder on Aug 30, 2006 9:13 AM CDT reply actions

Overreacting

Do you cut yourself, too? Jesus Christ, man, get a grip. You lost more hope after a win? Whatever, man.

I know this much: if it had been the White Sox losing to Kansas City last night, you'd be leaping off the ledge. "THEY CAN'T BEAT THE FUCKING ROYALS :((((((((((((((((((("

And, what the hell do you call Buehrle's last three starts? They don't count as stepping it up? He's got a 3.00 (just above, I think) ERA in them. Mark's back.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions

Overreaction?!

What post did you read? All I said was that I was more doubtful of the Sox making the playoffs. I'm not on any ledge or sharpening any razors - are you projecting?

Anyway, the letter 'W' next to game doesn't mean it was all roses...wakeup and look at the box score. They should have been able to rest the bullpen last night, but instead they had to use Jenks to close. As Ozzie said, if the Sox don't get some #^$*#! pitching they aren't going to make the playoffs.

You are right that Buehrle has been pitching better: 3.38 ERA over his last 3 games with a 1.6 WHIP, 5 SO per game and 1.5 or something HR/9. He's still giving up a bunch of hits, so I'm not sure how much of a corner he's turned.

For comparison, Garza over his last 3 games:
2.41 ERA, 1.0 WHIP,6 SO per game 0 HR/9

I'd like to see a starter besides Garland match Garza'a numbers, I'd call that stepping it up.

by hitlesswonder on Aug 30, 2006 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Blah blah

Blah blah blah.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Greg

Either value and respect the opinions of others here, or you give me no choice but to devalue yours by discontinuing your ability to post your "blah blah blah" to every rational response on the board.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Aug 30, 2006 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions

As Jim Pagliaruno used to say in Ball Four,

Get him the f out of here!

by winningugly on Aug 30, 2006 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions

go back from whence you came!

soxtalk.

by longdrive on Aug 30, 2006 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions

hmm

Gregory Pratt = Joe Morgan

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Aug 30, 2006 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions

gold

by longdrive on Aug 30, 2006 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions

minus the HOF

career

by spengler on Aug 30, 2006 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Too much hand-wringing

and gnashing of teeth. What other rotation (or lineup, for that matter) is holding up right now? Everyone is beating the crap out of each other, except the Spanks pulled off the best trade at deadline and thus are sitting prettiest (though I'm not enamoured of their rotation, either).

Red Sux are done, Garza's a rookie and is inconsistent, so the Twinks are in transition, Tiggers are tiring/staggering home. We ALWAYS have trouble with the Rays, Garland is lights out (why the hell worry about when he might NOT be???), Buehrle actually pitched a good game in a must win situation (and if you are looking for trend reversal in Garland, how about acknowledging the same in a positive direction for Mark?), and, ah, um, well, Javy pitched a good five innings. And the REAL back end (as opposed to the "ass" end) of the bullpen is magnificent. As is -Mac in long relief (and I'd bet he's part of the playoff roster, as opposed to last year - remember everyone was HOWLING for Ozzie's head, what an idiot, leave El Duque off teh roster, etc., and by the way, he knew what he was doing).

Plus, goddammit, we are STILL WORLD CHAMPS!! And as much as I don't like Steve Phillips-head-screwdriver on ESPN, at least he mentioned last night the Sox DO have the distinction of all other contenders to have ACTUALLY WON THE SERIES last year and thus have that experience. (Does the new NY K-Rod? Not a positive Series...)

So enjoy the ugly win. We're in the playoffs if a comet hits the Earth today. It's better than an ugly loss. And we've won 2 in a row while Minny's lost 2.

by winningugly on Aug 30, 2006 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions

Yup...it's called parity

As has become obvious, no one in the Central is going to run away with this thing. Even those bad ass Tigers have a losing record in August...which just delights me.

The Sox still have the 4th best winning percentage in all of baseball which is nothing to sneeze at. Sure I had knots in my stomach as the "Rays" kept climbing back yesterday, but what the hell, if the Sox do make it in - and their current chances are about as good as anyone's - we'll all be doing a happy dance and no longer caring about how they did vs. KC.

If they don't make it, it will be because another team is hungrier. I still think the Sox mashers can "flip a switch" and start pounding the ball. It's the bullpen we need to worry about.

by tailgater on Aug 30, 2006 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions

Last night, I noticed for the first time that it

looks like Cotts was not using the stutter step in his delivery that, according to nearly everybody, was an integral part of his deception and ultimate success when he was going good.

I couldn't see it all that well from left field, but wondered if anybody noticed the same thing on TV.

Also, I think it might be time for him to be able to get some sort of off-speed pitch somewhere near the strike zone. That at-bat with Cantu was like a disaster waiting to happen when all you're throwing up there are 88-89 mph fastballs and a guy gets to see that many of them in one at-bat.

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Aug 30, 2006 9:41 AM CDT reply actions

I also noticed

Cotts wasn't using "speed" or "movement" on the ball which also may have contributed to his early departure.

When he comes into a game, I now get that same feeling of dread I used to get when Marte would get the call.

by tailgater on Aug 30, 2006 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions

His departure wasn't early enough...

Viking God, Bears Fan

by Toonderstrook on Aug 30, 2006 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions

Macdougal vs. Lumsden

I don't know much about Lumsden, but Macdougal has been pretty effective so far for you guys. 1.84 ERA since the A-S break leads the pack for your staff (albeit in only 14.67 innings). His 263/288/368 is nothing to sneer at. 6.75 K/9 is not great, but he's shown good control.

And he's only had two "rough" outings in the last month: 4 hits in 1 2/3 against KC (5 ground balls) for one run; 3 hits in one inning against Minny (6 ground balls) for one run. Given the other problems with your bullpen, it seems that you should be thankful for Macdougal.

Twins fan

by brianS on Aug 30, 2006 4:55 PM CDT reply actions