Jermaine Dye- MVP?

by Betterhalf @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 12:15 AM CDT

One of the columnists at Baseball For Thought certainly thinks so. You can find the story here.

Pretty interesting. Aside from what we already know with the gaudy numbers he's putting up this year, the writer mentions the .649 SLG (first in the AL), and the hitting .362 with runners in scoring position, among other reasons.

He also goes into why four other candidates won't get it- Ortiz, Manny, Jeter and Hafner.

Let's hope!

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Comments

I like the column.

That's basically what I was saying at the game last night. There just isn't anyone that is head-and-shoulders above the rest. With a strong September and a playoff run he should be right there at the top. Hopefully he can start to get a little more media (east coast, specifically) attention.

by defensive indifference on Aug 30, 2006 11:49 AM CDT reply actions

unless someone has a monster season

i can't see giving the MVP to a player who doesn't get his team to the playoffs. as it stands right now, JD has the best numbers of anyone on a playoff bound team.

by larry on Aug 30, 2006 11:54 AM CDT reply actions

Blah blah

I love Dye, but is he better than Ortiz this year? I'm not so sure, and I'm inclined to say no. Dye looks like number two to me.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 1:07 PM CDT reply actions

ortiz doesn't play in the field

end of story. the voters won't give it to a DH.

by larry on Aug 30, 2006 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions

Wrong answer

I wasn't talking about the voters. I was asking, "Are his numbers better" and the answer is no.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Seriously

You didn't say anything about his numbers in your original post, you made the statement that Ortiz is better. He disagreed with you because David Ortiz does not play in the field.

Get over yourself.

by mjthor on Aug 30, 2006 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions

I didn't say anything about numbers?

I may not have explicitly said it, but let me ask you, I said this:

"I love Dye, but is he better than Ortiz this year? I'm not so sure, and I'm inclined to say no. Dye looks like number two to me."

What on Earth could I have been referencing with "he looks like number two to me"? Jesus Christ, I was clearly talking about statistics and performance.

And, hell, I'll say it again: Dye is behind Ortiz in RBI and Homeruns. Ortiz has been phenomenal this year, and Dye has been slightly less so IMO.

Excuse me for being a baseball fan before being a blind Sox fan.

Now, anything can happen by the end of the year. You know, Ryan Howard is dominating the NL and looks like the MVP to me over Pujols, and who could've predicted that Howard would be better than Pujols this year? It may be that Dye winds up with better numbers at the finish line, but not yet, not now.

Fuck you if you're going to assemble a lynch mob about me asking a simple question and saying something relatively mild.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Relax there, killer.

"Fuck you if you're going to assemble a lynch mob about me asking a simple question and saying something relatively mild."

Wow, real mature.

Like I said before, get over yourself. Just because someone says something contrary to what you have to say doesn't make them any less wrong or right than you, nor does it give you the right to say "fuck you" to them.

Cheat: Can we make it a requirement to graduate high school before posting on here? I think it'd be a great idea.

by mjthor on Aug 30, 2006 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Another thing

Maybe if you explained your basis for ranking Dye #2 before throwing a hissy fit and swearing at everyone on this thread, you wouldn't be in the position you're in now.

How the hell was anyone supposed to know that by saying "Dye looks like number two" you really meant "He has less homers and RBIs than Ortiz?" Are homers and RBIs the only stats that matter? That's news to me.

My advice to you: Take a deep breath. Go for a walk outside or something.

by mjthor on Aug 30, 2006 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Actually

You can very easily make a case for Dye. Save for the dramatic walk-off HRs, Dye's numbers are very comparable to Ortiz' and in some cases better. Dye is hitting 37 points higher than Ortiz. He has a better SLG. Given their number of at-bats, Dye produces at a similar or better rate than Ortiz in other categories, including RBI. So don't be too quick to dismiss Dye out of hand. The biggest object Dye has to surpass is the media love of the Red Sawx.

Much will depend on the last half of the season. With the Carmines fading into oblivion the case for Dye gets much better. It also depends on team success. If the Twins manage to wrap up a playoff spot, a lot of people will be lobbying for Mauer too.

by the wolf on Aug 30, 2006 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions

Shut up.

And go away. Please.

by defensive indifference on Aug 30, 2006 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions

Fuck your mother

I asked a very reasonable question and made a very reasonable point. I get criticised as a fanboy, and when I point out that, hey, Ortiz has quite a few more homers and more RBIs, you're going to go nuts on me?

Fuck you.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions

probably because you're acting

like an immature jackass on every thread/diary/response. grow up. by the way, your poetry is trite.

Cheat, please get rid of this guy.

by larry on Aug 30, 2006 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Your make my heart go pitter-pat

when you talk to me like that.

I haven't done anything immature but point out things I think here and there. What a crime!

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions

yeah, lashing out with ad hominem attacks

and vulgarities are the paradigm for maturity. seriously. grow up.

by larry on Aug 30, 2006 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Seems like the treatment I've been getting

I don't think I made an ad hominem attack, but I didn't intend to. All I did was say "Ortiz looks like he's got better numbers to me." Jesus Christ.

by Gregory Pratt @ South Side Sox on Aug 30, 2006 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Where's Morneau?

Certainly seems like a glaring ommission from consideration.

by kaskomm09 on Aug 30, 2006 1:26 PM CDT reply actions

Yeah no kidding...

if the voters are in love with Jeter's fielding theatrics... wait 'til they get a load of a first baseman who does the splits!!

Seriously though... I would put Morneau up there, and if Ortiz misses enough time I would put him at #2 or #3 (whichever Jeter isn't).

Dye is of course my #1... I am homer, and I am ok with that.

by CatBrains on Aug 30, 2006 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions

Defense & MVP

I think in a close race, defense/dh/etc should be considered. For example, last years A Rod vs Ortiz. All else equal, I give it to A Rod.

I know a lot of people are claiming that Mauer & Jeter are more deserving than Dye because they play C & SS, but I disagree. The fact that Dye is clearly better offensively then them makes me think that he should be the frontrunner.

AIM: shaftr01

XBL: TheMattressMan

by shaftr on Aug 30, 2006 2:37 PM CDT reply actions

plus you have to be the

most valuable on your own team. i think morneau is arguably more valuable than mauer.

dye has been the glue that has held this team together, providing monster production when thome has had injuries, at times carrying the team.

by spengler on Aug 30, 2006 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Hell, I'll vote for Dye

how huge has he been down the stretch?

by asinwreck on Aug 30, 2006 10:14 PM CDT reply actions

Nothing personal

...but "Ortiz has more RBI and HRs" is not a reasonable argument.

Catching the ball is worth runs too, and Dye is even with Ortiz in most team independent stats.

WARP2 has Dye in solid lead: 8.1 to 7.5 (or 6.9 to 6.6 in WARP1--that's how good the AL is this year...)

Being an average RF is worth a win or two more than being a DH.

by xian on Aug 30, 2006 10:42 PM CDT reply actions

that throw today to first by dye

was ridiculous. falling away from where he was throwing, just about on the warning track, and it was a strike to konerko. obviously dye's above average arm was a factor in the baserunning error, resulting in an out.

by larry on Aug 30, 2006 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions

According to Baseball Prospectus

David Ortiz has had 457 Runners On Base to Dye's 381.

He has also had 222 Runners on 2nd or third when he's come up to bat. Jermaine Dye? 171.

There's a lot of good stats on that page if you want to check it out. I think Jermaine has proved himself more valuable to the White Sox than Ortiz to the Red Sox.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=99965

by hawksview on Aug 31, 2006 12:39 AM CDT reply actions

i love going inside the numbers

by larry on Aug 31, 2006 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions

Great stat

That's a great stat to look at, although I don't expect the National Media at large to pay attention to the fact that Jermiane's number are lower than they COULD be considering he was hitting behing Thome and Paulie

-Jeeves Chi-Sox Blog

by jeeves on Aug 31, 2006 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions