Random thoughts from a disappointed fan

by thekever on Sep 19, 2006 11:47 AM CDT

>When was the last time Konerko (or Thome or Crede) had a clutch hit?

>How is it that the White Sox, since August 15, made the following pitchers look like Cy Young candidates (WS runs scored in parentheses)?

Runelvys Hernandez, KC (2 runs)
Adam Bernero, KC (4 runs)
Pat Neshek, MN (3 runs)
Jesse Crain, MN (4 runs)
Ruddy Lugo, TB (3 runs)
Runelvys Hernandez (again), KC (5 runs)
Mark Redman, KC (3 runs)
Mike Timlin, BOS (2 runs)
Kason Gabbard, BOS (ZERO RUNS)
Hector Carrasco, LAA (3 runs)
Joe Blanton, OAK (4 runs)

[editor's note, by thekever] (Some of the pitchers listed above are relievers that won the game. None are household names that should have earned a victory against the Sox).

If the Sox win five of these eleven games (against MARGINAL pitchers), they are still in the thick of the playoff race. And everyone still says Greg Walker is a good hitting coach.

>Does anyone still think Brandon McCarthy is "untouchable"?

>Podsednik...GONE

>Uribe...GONE

>Cotts...???

>Buehrle...???

>Vazquez...GONE

>Garcia...???

>Logan...GONE

>Riske...GONE

>Hermanson...GONE

>Alomar...GONE

>Mackowiak...???

>In 2007, Ozzie will have a much tighter leash.

>As of today, Brian Anderson deserves the starting position in CF.

>Kenny Williams deserves a lot of credit for assembling a team that should have taken it all...

Thome for Rowand was a great trade.
Frank Thomas was a pariah in Chicago and needed to go.
Thornton was a great pickup.
McDougall was a great pickup.
Cintron was a great pickup.
Mackowiak was a good pickup.

In almost every position, the 2006 WS were better than the 2005 WS.

>I think I owe each of you an apology. It seems that all of my prayers during the 2005 playoff run are now coming due.

>Maybe it is now time to stop believing. Sorry, Joe Perry.

Poll

What are the WS needs for 2007?

Second

0 votes

Short

2 votes

Third

0 votes

Left

14 votes

Center

0 votes

Right

0 votes

Starting pitching

16 votes

Long relief

6 votes

Closer

0 votes

First

0 votes

38 votes | Poll has closed

SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.

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Comments

I'm sure Joe Perry doesn't mind

He's busy with Aerosmith, and a solo album and such.

Steve Perry, on the other hand...

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Sep 19, 2006 11:52 AM CDT reply actions

My bad...

Thanks for the correction...

by thekever on Sep 19, 2006 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions

The numbers are almost all off

The relievers you listed above did not allow that run total against the Sox. And even if they did, that would be a pretty good showing by the Sox hitters.

The Sox only scored 2 runs against Blanton a few days ago, but that was in 5 innings, hardly a Cy Young performance.

Totally agree re: KW. He did a fine job assembling this team. On paper, we're the 3rd best team in baseball (after the NY teams) at worst.

Uribe and Logan aren't going anywhere.

by Bull Pain on Sep 19, 2006 12:55 PM CDT reply actions

wait a minute, captain

>Does anyone still think Brandon McCarthy is "untouchable"?

I do

>Podsednik...GONE

Yes

>Uribe...GONE

No. No way you can find a better SS.

>Cotts...???

Keep

>Buehrle...???
>Vazquez...GONE
>Garcia...???

Keep, unless you get a good offer

>Logan...GONE

>Riske...GONE
>Hermanson...GONE
>Alomar...GONE

Probably

>Mackowiak...???

Gone so ozzie can't stick him in CF.
Not his fault, Mack's OK

>In 2007, Ozzie will have a much tighter leash.

I don't see it

>As of today, Brian Anderson deserves the starting position in CF.

Yes

>Kenny Williams deserves a lot of credit for assembling a team that should have taken it all...

Yes

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2006 1:15 PM CDT reply actions

What he said :)

GO SOX!

by rhythm on Sep 19, 2006 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Is it just me...

or did anyone else notice that the defense hasn't been quite as good as last year (multiple DPs that have not been turned and resulted in runs scored) and the rotation, hailed as the best in baseball to begin the season, has underachieved. Hitters are streaky, firing Walker wouldn't do any good at this point and it seems like a lot of guys are banged up. Coaches can only do so much and then it's up to the millionaires to make it happen.

As far as your list, I think Pods, Riske, Alomar and Hermanson are the only people that need to go. And Hermie may be able to put himself back together by the Spring. We all know that one of the starters is gone, but honestly, the rotation can't be as bad as this year if you kept it together. Despite the twinkerbells, ligers, and the (Cleveland) steamers looking great for next year, I think the Sox have a good team in place with some minor adjustments to be made. They should be able to make some noise next year despite missing a great opportunity this year. Maybe I'm delusional?

At any rate, they won the world series last year and all the championship t-shirts are soon to be on sale. Sweet!

GO SOX!

by rhythm on Sep 19, 2006 1:17 PM CDT reply actions

Approx. salaries

Here are some approx salaries for selected WS players. This may impact your thoughts on whether they stay or not...

(in millions)
Buehrle, 8.0
Contreras, 9.5
Garcia, 9.0
Garland, 7.0
Vazquez, 12.0

Cotts, 0.4
Hermanson, 3.1
Jenks, 0.34
Logan, 0.32
McCarthy, 0.33
Riske, 1.8
Thornton, 0.35

Alomar, 0.65
AJ, 4.0

Cintron, 1.6
Crede, 2.6
Gload, 0.35
Gooch, 2.4
Konerko, 12.0
Uribe, 3.1

Anderson, 0.33
JD, 5.0
Mackowiak, 2.2
Ozuna, 0.5
Pods, 2.1

Thome, 14.1

Obviously, there are some bargains. There are also some busts.

by thekever on Sep 19, 2006 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions

maybe i'm off here

but it seems like javy is fixed. ever since coop fixed his release point problems, he's been fantastic. i know most people on here were all over him this season, but it could be that coop has worked his magic. even if he isn't fixed, i don't think it's possible to move him.

for me, our problems began when we decided to rely on hermanson being healthy this year. a bullpen of jenks, thornton, hermanson, and mccarthy doing long/mop up work would have been relatively solid. problem with that line of thinking was that hermanson apparently never had the chance to be healthy. the loss of hermanson caused us to go to other guys in the righty set-up role (politte, nelson, mccarthy, etc) who weren't up to it for a variety of reasons. i can't help but think if KW knew going into the season that hermy wouldn't be available, he would have filled that role in the offseason with someone competent. instead, we've been scrambling the whole year.

adding macdougal obviously helped but, as i mentioned early this season (and got yelled down by others on here), we were using bobby a whole lot this season to paper over our bullpen problems - a guy who hadn't pitched a full season at this level and had injury probs in the past - and i was concerned about him wearing down. i think that occurred.

by larry on Sep 19, 2006 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions

here's joe cowley's take

[Joe Cowley]

"Make no mistake, however, that if the Sox do fall short of the postseason, the best route would be blowing up the current roster while players still have high market value. That means shopping starting pitchers Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez and even Buehrle for new arms. That means a new left fielder, two new relievers and more speed on the basepaths."

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2006 2:17 PM CDT reply actions

those players have high market value?

i'm not opposed to making trades by any means, but suggesting you'll get high value for those mentioned (perhaps excepting buehrle) is silly. you'd probably get your best return on garcia (because he looks to be, at best, average and in decline but still probably attractive to an NL team as a reliable inning eater). i think buerhle will rebound so, unless you can't resign him, trading him seems like a bad idea. and i don't think anyone is going to take javy without us paying a significant portion of his salary - which seems pretty stupid business on our part (and, as i mentioned on that diary, i think coop may have "fixed" javy so i think he should be a pretty decent pitcher for us next year).

by larry on Sep 19, 2006 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Blow up the team?

I don't understand these writers.

This team, despite it's horrible second half, is going to win at least 90 games. I'd say that 70% of the time, 90 wins is enough to get you into the playoffs. Hell, there's a chance that we finish with the sixth best record in baseball.

Make the changes that need to be made. A new LFer is the obvious one. Getting McCarthy into the rotation an trading Garcia is another (to me) obvious move.

I still like the core of this team for next year, but over the next two years, I'd like to see Kenny start to infuse some younger talent into the lineup. LF is the obvious spot to do that, with 2nd base a close second (no pun intended).

After that, it'd just be too much speculation. Obviously in two years, you're going to have to look at possibly revamping the whole middle of the lineup, with Dye/Konerko/Thome all into their mid-30s, but, as I said, that's just too much speculation for now.

by CWSKeith on Sep 19, 2006 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

KABOOOM!!!

Just kidding...

90 wins is enough (90-72)? Sorry, not when you go 14-4 against the weak National League.

Take that record away and the White Sox are 76-68. Not exactly intimidating. And the Sox are merely 36-32 against the AL Central. It's tough to win the division when you can't beat up the other teams.

The reality is that the Sox were expected to do much more. An excellent team was assembled. There were no significant, long term injuries.

As Hawk said, they are underachievers...

by thekever on Sep 19, 2006 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions

which NL division is the one that isn't weak?

we'd have to play one of them, just like everyone else in our league.

your point about the AL central is far more salient. i said a couple months ago that this division - pretty much like all divisions - is won or lost within the division. we beat up on the central last year and we failed to do that this year. detroit succeeded. the twinkies have a similar record as us right now but, from the look of things, will probably end up 5 or so games. there's your difference.

by larry on Sep 19, 2006 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions

Next year

Personally I would to see Garcia and Buehrle gone. The market for Buehrle would be very good. Everyone "thinks" they can fix everyone and Im convinced the Central at least has figured him out.

Uribe is tough because if his head is in the game hes damn good defensively. A heart to heart is probably needed with him.

Anderson in center. No brainer and leave him the hell alone. Ozzie is probable gone after next year. If Brian can maintain for 1 more year we will have an avg hitter with a top notch glove in center for years. Im beginning to think many of the stories and quotes about Brian's closed door meeting with Oz and Kenny really rubbed Ozzie the wrong way. I remember thinking they were funny and a show of confidence in self..... wrong.

by Tdogg on Sep 19, 2006 3:23 PM CDT reply actions

kenny

[Mark Gonzales]

"I have a plan. I haven't shared it with anyone yet. ... It's not so much get younger, as not get aged," Williams said. "If you turn around one day and you have allowed your roster to become so veteran-oriented and aging, and then when you decide this isn't working--and it happens--it comes crashing down. Then you have to play too many young guys, and you're going to be losing. We're going to try to stay consistent in our competitiveness. ... The plan is outlined two, sometimes three years ahead. And obviously certain things have to develop. You want to be consistent with putting the product on the field that focuses first on pitching. And that means complementing all the veteran guys you have around with up-and-coming younger guys, so you don't become an aging team quickly."

HEY THIS IS JI
JIM THOME
THE PEORIA POUNDER

by The Wizard on Sep 19, 2006 4:32 PM CDT reply actions

crede

My guess is that we've probably just witnessed the best season of Joe Crede's career. Not that he'll drop off dramatically in the next couple years, but that it's unlikely he'll be this good again and even more unlikely that he'll get any better.

So, despite that fact that I love having Joe on the team, I think it would be a good idea to explore the trade market for him, especially given his dodgy back and the Sox's chilly relationship with Scott Boras.

However, I absolutely wouldn't make the rumored trade for Chone Figgins (who is really just Pods part 2). I would see what kind of prospects (especially pitchers) Crede could bring in return and then weigh them against his likely production and cost over the next 4 years, while keeping in mind that the Sox want to be a playoff-caliber team every year and can't afford to downgrade the major-league club too much.

Presumably, Fields would take Crede's place, which would obviously be a defensive downgrade and, at least at first, an offensive downgrade as well. It looks like Fields's ceiling would be Troy Glaus-esque, which would be just fine, but if he doesn't pan out, losing Crede could be disastrous. But I think it's still worth at least looking into it.

by Ryno on Sep 19, 2006 6:55 PM CDT reply actions