Would you get rid of Ozzie this offseason?

by chrome on Sep 5, 2006 2:01 PM CDT Comment 9 comments

Here's a diary I never thought I'd write last year, but after a season in which our pitching could no longer hide Ozzie Guillen's glaring managerial weaknesses, the question should be asked. Could this team improve with a smarter manager guiding this team?

Ozzie's errors are well known on this site, with his misuse of Mackowiak/Anderson, Podsednik, McCarthy, his free passes given to our starting pitchers, his use of Politte and Cotts in critical situations long after they showed they weren't performing, his 3+ sub lineups, etc.

I believe this team would be at least 5 games better at this point if we had a manager who optimized this teams talents, or at the very least, could explain some of his personnel decisions.

I know some will argue that Ozzie's record should preclude him from this discussion, but the same thing could have been said about Grady Little in 2003.

Poll

If the Sox fail to make the playoffs, would you fire Ozzie

Yes

31 votes

No

49 votes

Unsure

13 votes

93 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I would like to say yes,

however I can't really think of an available replacement who would be better. There are a lot of terrible managers out there. So I guess I am unsure until I see some reasonable replacements thrown around.

by the wimperoo on Sep 5, 2006 2:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

For those of you who are voting no

what is your main reasoning for voting that way?

by chrome on Sep 5, 2006 2:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it's the pitching

starters, namely. a 4.75 ERA for them isn't gettting it done. every coach has his idiosyncracies. even the great ones make decisions or stick with players who aren't performing, seemingly with no logic behind it. i don't really think the reason we're having so much trouble is because of outfield personnel decisions. it's the pitchers not performing to the level which we should expect. and i don't really see how pulling them earlier would necessarily help. i don't think our bullpen would have done much better.

by larry on Sep 5, 2006 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with Larry

The thing is, all managers make mistakes. Torre trotted Bernie Williams out to the OF way too much last year. I've never seen any manager I thought was a genius. Look at Leyland: Todd Jones closes while Zumaya seems underused, and his lineups are "unconventional". It's worked this year, but I'm not sure those were good decisions.

I still don't think Guillen is any worse than an average manager. The pitching and leadoff situation have been so bad, I'm not sure the McCarthy or McGraw would have gotten this team to the playoffs either.

by hitlesswonder on Sep 5, 2006 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with that as well.

I'd personally place myself right in the middle of "Fire him" and "Unsure". I suppose its tough to fire the manager when 3/5 of our starting pitchers are having career worst years. But you know even with that, I think most people assumed McCarthy would be getting 8-10 spot starts this year as our "6th starter". He's had one.

Even while acknowledging that he's not fucking Cy Young, I have a hard time believing he wouldn't be better than Freddy Garcia, or Post-DL Contreras. With the way our starters performed this year, he deserved a chance. If he wasn't "stretched out", it's because Ozzie never allowed him to get there.

Then when you throw in all the pointless feuds Ozzie got himself in with opposing players and managers, and the way he chewed out his best starting pitcher in the midst of one of his strongest games of the year, he's just been so disappointing on so many levels this year.

by chrome on Sep 5, 2006 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i am completely fine

with the handling of mccarthy. with the rotation we had, i never thought he'd see more than a couple starts, if that. i see no reason to hurry a 22/23 year old pitcher, who should be a staple of our rotation for years to come. i agree that he probably would have been better than garcia or vasquez or post- DL contreras or post all-star mark but i think waiting on him will benefit the team more down the road.

by larry on Sep 5, 2006 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Easy answer: No.

He pushed all the right buttons last year. He's missed some this year. That stuff happens with every manager.

Jerry Manuel got six years for chrissakes, and he peaked in year No. 3.

I can't name one managerial candidate who might be bettter. Bobby Valentine would come closest, but he alienates people worse than Ozzie does.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Sep 5, 2006 3:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Managers

The most important thing a manager can do is get his players to play hard and play up to their potential. In game decisions pale in comparison to this skill. I think Ozzie does this very well. Of course on any given team no matter who the manager is some players will play above their estimated potential (JD, Crede), some at and some below.

Now, some players aren't going to play up to their potential in any given year secondary to physical (see Garcia, Freddy) or mental issues.

And when you do something that hasn't been done in 88 years then you deserve the benefit of the doubt. We are not world champs without Ozzie. Every year isn't your year. Oh and by the way the grady little comparisons are way off base because he NEVER WON THE WORLD SERIES.

by bhoov on Sep 5, 2006 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what's his record?

I am just fine with Ozzie Guillen as manager. He wins a lot more than he loses, he deflects attention from his players, and his good pitching decisions outweigh his bad ones. His most annoying trait is playing Mackowiak in center, but I place some of that blame on Williams's roster construction. (Getting Mackowiak as a supersub made sense when he was going to understudy for Crede and his herniated discs; once Cintron was added and Borchard dealt there was no CF on the bench...so in goes the supersub.)

Guillen's managing is not this team's main problem. The inconsistent-to-poor performances from the rotation kill this team. I held my breath last year when it looked like Buehrle was going to miss the first six weeks with an injury because his starts were hard to replace. This year he has pitched like he was injured, as has Garcia, as has Contreras (lately). If I'm managing, I switch McCarthy and Vazquez's roles, but that would be a band-aid on the team's problems. Should the team get to the postseason, how many reliable pitchers are available? Garland? MacDougal? Jenks? Guillen hasn't burned the pitchers out, but the pitchers just aren't producing. It just ain't the Sox' year.

by asinwreck on Sep 5, 2006 6:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs