Barry Bonds indicted for perjury
The grand jury investigating Bonds came back with charges of perjury and obstruction of justice.
http://www.sfgate.com/flat/archive/2007/11/15/news/archive/2007/11/15/state/n141013S18.html
Not a great time for Mr. Bonds to become a free agent. Will any team sign him knowing the 2008 season will be filled with legal filings, courtroom theatrics, and a steady barrage of negative publicity with the words "criminal indictment" repeated over and over?

...on the other hand, maybe he'd be a cheap source of power and OBP. Until he gets sent to prison during the stretch drive.
I wonder if Magowan had an informed sense this was coming down when he announced the Giants weren't going to bring Bonds back?
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I couldn't believe folks were
Hell, he's almost my age and has knees worse than mine. The Cell fans would rip him a new one or three - not a good time or place to hole up in a Midwestern town. We're the Great Unwashed, remember? Ask Toonderstrook, now that he's Golden Gating it.
by winningugly on
Nov 15, 2007 5:24 PM CST
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Our tax dollars hard at work
by HulkSmash on
Nov 15, 2007 7:16 PM CST
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Robert Hanssen?
by winningugly on
Nov 15, 2007 7:52 PM CST
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i'm really confused about this post, too
by the way, under the terms of the immunity bonds received (just like, i believe, every other athlete asked to testify before the grand jury), the only stuff he could be charged with was perjury, obstruction of justice and the like. this numbnut had no way of getting into trouble for anything he injected/ate/snorted. unless he lied. again, granting immunity to people like bonds - who are in the position to provide evidence against the big guns (in this case, BALCO) - seems like a good idea, too. but to each his own.
by larry on
Nov 15, 2007 8:39 PM CST
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by the way
by larry on
Nov 15, 2007 8:41 PM CST
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The sun sets in the west,
Anyway, I too have a problem with perjury. But, is BALCO on my top priorities for matters to be handled by federal prosecutors? Not really. Is it a story worth the press its getting in mainstream media? I tend to disagree with that as well. I'm not going to get into a political discussion, especially with you Larry, because I can't even imagine what that would entail. Exhaustion is my best outlook.
For my tax paying buck, I'd like to see a lot better things happening with our Justice Department, other than this case. That's my stance, for myriad reasons. I regret broaching a political/legal debate on this site--not to offend anyone here, but it's not the forum.
by HulkSmash on
Nov 15, 2007 9:15 PM CST
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it amuses me
by larry on
Nov 15, 2007 9:24 PM CST
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If you didn't mean it
by HulkSmash on
Nov 15, 2007 9:41 PM CST
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Legally ignorant
And given his celebrity status, what is likely to happen?
I understand there's no way to be certain of something like this, just curious about informed opinions and best guesses.
by Hazymania on
Nov 16, 2007 12:00 AM CST
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From what I understand
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 6:18 AM CST
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It also should be noted
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 6:20 AM CST
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One more thing...
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 6:28 AM CST
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re: immunity
by Hazymania on
Nov 16, 2007 12:25 PM CST
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regarding penalties
by larry on
Nov 16, 2007 12:16 PM CST
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So no special considerations
I only ask because it seems that people in his position get out via some loophole more often then they spend any time incarcerated.
Not trying to be a smartass or anything. Just thinking this is going to be interesting to follow.
by Hazymania on
Nov 16, 2007 12:24 PM CST
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No way
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 12:27 PM CST
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yeah
by larry on
Nov 16, 2007 12:42 PM CST
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Right
by Hazymania on
Nov 16, 2007 12:44 PM CST
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frankly
also, lying to the feds or committing other federal crimes is a bit different than state crimes. some people forget that there are two legal systems in the country - state and federal. the state ones tend to be a little more fuddy-duddy, more likely to cave into political or societal pressure, have generally less resources, less competent attorneys, and so on. and then there's the issue of the "federal sentencing guidelines." judges (and prosecutors recommending to judges sentences after a plea bargain) have far less leeway and discretion in determining the punishment under those. if bonds pleas, he'll still be saying he's guily of some serious crimes. and there are strict minimum sentences for those. if he pleads guilty to any one of those crimes, he's going to spend at least a year in prison.
for comparison's sake, what bonds is accused of (in large measure, lying to a grand jury) is considered more serious than what martha stewart was accused of and she got five months, IIRC.
by larry on
Nov 16, 2007 12:37 PM CST
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As a FINRA arbitrator and old
Speaking of Capone, is that true re: all Bonds could be indicted for was perjury/obstruction? Is that why he was not charged with tax evasion for his memorabilia $ he received under the table? It was a bit surprising he wasn't charged with that, too.
by winningugly on
Nov 16, 2007 9:58 AM CST
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Yes and I don't think so.
As to the other question, I think the immunity Bonds received in connection with his grand jury testimony only applied to the subject matters of the testimony. So if the memorabilia stuff didn't come up (and I can't imagine it would have), it's still fair game.
by Toonderstrook on
Nov 16, 2007 11:10 AM CST
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Sometimes...
And this isn't so much about Bonds. Our system of justice works, but only if people tell the truth. And there have to be sticks when you don't tell the truth. Perhaps people will look at Martha Stewart and Barry Bonds and think, OH SHIT...the Feds will come after rich celebrities for lying and obstructing justice, so maybe I ought to tell the truth.
And if the allegations are true, isn't this such typical Bonds hubris?
by Toonderstrook on
Nov 16, 2007 11:17 AM CST
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Well, Toonder,
As for our system of justice working, maybe you need to do some looking around to see how efficient said system really is. My questions raise on how much people are incited over Bonds regarding legal issues, and how many are incited over moral issues. All I keep hearing about is Bonds and his hubris, Bonds is a cheater, Bonds deserves his punishment. But what about Selig, who allowed rampant steroids to infultrate baseball while turning the other cheek, so long as profits were good? Do you thnk that if Selig were invesitaged in the manner in which Bonds was, four years of federal scrutinty and grand jury testimonies, he would walk away clean as the preacher's sheets? Do you really think if the feds wanted Selig, they wouldn't be able to get him under perjury or obstructing of justice charges? People don't want Selig because many want to believe that this steroids issue is a Bonds problem, not a baseball problem.
Bonds is one of hundreds who are all guilty of the exact same thing. Only difference is they didn't break a sacred record, and therefor, for whatever reason, it's unecesssary to hold them up to the same standards, investigation, and scrutiny Bonds has faced.
Am I defending Bonds? No. But keep in mind he was also doing something that at the time was not against the rules of MLB. But then Congress stepped in, where baseball and Selig wouldn't, and suddenly things changed.
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 11:44 AM CST
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As for the Marhta
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 11:56 AM CST
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Again...
by Toonderstrook on
Nov 16, 2007 12:01 PM CST
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Is "Marhta" Martha Stewart's
Well, by God, they should've dragged her through the streets like Mussolini! Perhaps they had a very weak-assed case and insider trading is awfully difficult to prove.
Yes, life (and law) are eventually meaningless, in that we all end up dead, so what's the point, eh? Unless you are Nietzche you realize we have to have a system of laws by the people and for the people and not only abide by them but hold them dear.
Else we have anarchy - like the Web, where even Soulja Boy has a voice!
by winningugly on
Nov 16, 2007 12:05 PM CST
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And his dad!
by Toonderstrook on
Nov 16, 2007 12:07 PM CST
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You're right.
It wasn't against the rules of baseball. And Bonds and his lawyers knew that going into the grand jury. And although it was still a Federal crime, he had immunity from being charged for it. So why didn't Big Bad Barry Bonds stick it to them and say, yeah, I did, but it wasn't against the rules?
They weren't after Bonds from the beginning...they wanted the Contes and the Andersons and others. But then he lied and obstructed the case.
And the argument that this is all because he broke the record...well, the investigation started LONG before, and Mr. Anderson spent jail time for contempt before he broke the record.
by Toonderstrook on
Nov 16, 2007 12:01 PM CST
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OK, it's 10 AM PST, Toonder
by winningugly on
Nov 16, 2007 12:08 PM CST
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Silly WU
by Toonderstrook on
Nov 16, 2007 12:16 PM CST
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Oh, so it's MY tax dollars
GET TO WORK!
by winningugly on
Nov 16, 2007 1:03 PM CST
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Why didn't Bonds say it?
You're right, this has been going on for a long time, but that still doesn't explain why Bonds is the bad guy in all this, and others have gotten a free pass. Should he be punished for perjury? Of course.
And Winning, as for Marhta... she's a women from the old Eastern European bloc I knew some time back. Loooong story.
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 12:24 PM CST
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As for "lots of ins, lots of outs"
Just askin'.
by winningugly on
Nov 16, 2007 1:04 PM CST
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i understand your point
and whether congress or whoever stepped in or not, i'm fairly certain the DOJ would still be charging bonds. the feds don't take kindly to lies, whether they're a news item du jour or not.
by larry on
Nov 16, 2007 3:18 PM CST
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That, Larry,
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 5:44 PM CST
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now
i can tell you the salient differences: primarily congress doesn't generally care too much when people lie to them about not really all that important stuff (which this was) and congress would need to refer such an investigation to the DOJ (i think that's the procedure) and they obviously haven't done that; also, the question of proof of such lying is probably far more difficult to prove up. the DOJ had pretty ready access to evidence from the balco investigation that bonds was probably lying. with raffy, it would be a pretty big undertaking to start an investigation into whether he took steroids and do all that legwork - and one that would likely be pretty flimsy or wholly without merit. probably another reason congress isn't interested in pursuing it.
you don't have to buy these differences; however, i have no doubt that if raffy or any other witness in balco (and i think there have been other witnesses charged with obstruction, certainly with contempt) had lied to the grand jury, they'd be facing the same consequences as bonds. it was just a really arrogant and stupid thing to do. i mean, everyone "knew" he was using. and it wasn't against the rules in baseball. and he had immunity. there would have been some media outcry but, really, would it have been much different than it was? absolutely ridiculous.
by larry on
Nov 16, 2007 6:18 PM CST
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No, that sounds right....
As for Bonds lying to the grand jury: just plain dumb. I'm curious, though, what information other players gave up. Maybe as these proceedings get rolling, some of the information will come to light, but that's doubtful.
by HulkSmash on
Nov 16, 2007 9:21 PM CST
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Palmeiro
by jackie hayes on
Nov 17, 2007 11:22 AM CST
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true
by larry on
Nov 17, 2007 11:25 AM CST
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No doubt
by jackie hayes on
Nov 17, 2007 8:26 PM CST
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for anyone who still cares
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/barry-bonds-a-guide-to-help-you-cut-through-the-noise/
by larry on
Nov 21, 2007 2:30 PM CST
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