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South Side Sox Officially Sanctioned Off-Season Plan

Nobody likes being second guessed. So with the GM meetings beginning a few hours after this piece is posted, and the free agent frenzy due to start in a week, it's time to do some first-guessing.

First of all, there is one large caveat to my off-season plan. Given my own way, I would have started in May. Back then, I was banging the drum for Pods and Erstad to be released (in one form or another), Dye to be traded, and Buehrle re-signed. The last of which seemed a bit of pipe dream at the time, but 6 weeks later became reality.

...The White Sox will have to buy time as much as talent on the open market... If the Sox have the budget to field competitive teams between now and '10, they should do so.
In truth, my plan still hasn't changed much; they've only been delayed. I'd feel better if Kenny had been able to put a more athletic, more youthful team on the field last year through a more proactive trade deadline, and I wouldn't have handed out new contracts to Jermaine Dye and AJ Pierzynski, but the moving parts should remain pretty much the same. It's the circumstances which have changed.

The Pierzynski and Dye extensions have dictated the Sox moves in '08 (and even '09). They've backed themselves into a position where they must spend (ridiculous amounts of) money through the free agent market in order to put a competitive team on the field the next two seasons.

Back in May, I said the Sox couldn't stand a full-fledged rebuilding effort, and the same still holds true today. So while I might want the Sox to get younger, and fast, first they may have to get older.

As we've written a number of times over the last two seasons, the Sox minor league system is in a sorry state. There are a precious few impact players in the entire system, and only one can be (realistically) projected to make the '09 team. This lack of organizational talent has cost a number of people their jobs, and further forces the hand of the front office.

Doing this exercise, I've come around to the notion that the White Sox will have to buy time as much as talent on the open market. My mid-season plan to dump Dye and others for youth would have dumped payroll and made the Sox more financially nimble, but the reality is that they still would have been bad in '08, and '09, and probably '10 too. If the Sox have the budget to field competitive teams between now and '10, they should do so as long as they don't sacrifice the key minor league talent that will push them to their next playoff contender in '11.

For the purposes of this post, I'm going to use a budget of about $115M (I could see them going as high as $125M under the right circumstances). There's no way to know exactly what the White Sox '08 budget will be, but attendance remained strong, which for the White Sox almost always correlates to money spent the following season. And there have been whispers of MLBAM, mainly the MLB.TV revenue, seeing another large increase this season, which should make all teams flush with cash and push free agent salaries even higher than last year.

The Sox already have $90M committed to 12 players in '08, and that's without a 3B (Crede's arbitration award not included), a SS (Uribe's buyout exercised), or a CFer (Erstad has been bought out). Filling just those 3 holes on the free agent market would push them to the $115M very quickly. $90M + $13M (Rowand w/ discount) + $7M (Eckstein) + $5-10M (for a LFer in a Crede trade) puts the Sox at $115-120M even before adding in the low-salary guys. As such, I forsee the Sox needing to trade off some salary.

Crede and one of Contreras/Garland are still the main trade pieces, but instead of flipping them for young, multi-tooled players they should be turned into veterans who provide a better fit to the club and/or have the chance to be Type A free agents in '08. Crede has zero chance of becoming a Type A thanks to his '07 and Garland's win total in '07 also limits his compensation value. If these two could be flipped for departing probable Type A free agents, the Sox could quickly infuse high quality new talent into the organization while remaining competitive in the interim.

Two players who fill these requirements and are likely to be available are Rafael Furcal and Pat Burrell. Furcal carries a $13M salary and is blocking Chin-lung Hu, or even A-Rod. Philly has been looking to unload Burrell and his $14M contract for much of the last 3 seasons. Philly and LA would probably eat up to half of each contract for the addition of B prospect to the deal, but the Sox need to hold on to almost all of their prospects at this point. I imagine the Sox can get them for $10M a piece without having to give up a prospect of significant consequence.

If both Burrell and Furcal have good seasons and are offered arbitration following the season, the Sox could be looking at 5 picks in the first 60. To put that in perspective, in the last three drafts the Sox have had a total of 6 picks in the top 100. Such an infusion of talent can not be discounted. (Fields and Gio are both products of the 2004 draft which saw the Sox take 5 of the first 59 players drafted.) The teams which have used this strategy most effectively recently are the Yankees and Red Sox, who have combined to take Jacoby Ellsbury, Craig Hansen, Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden, Ian Kennedy, and Joba Chamberlain in the first or supplemental rounds since '05.

In this scenario, I would look to add Mike Cameron, who remains a plus defensive CFer and one of the best baserunners in the game, won't need a long-term commitment, and might come at a bit of a discount thanks to his impending 25-game suspension. I would look to avoid the two Type A CFers (Rowand, Hunter), signing whom will cost the Sox their '08 2nd rounder. I wouldn't be against giving Furcal an extension, but would prefer him to turn into draft picks, and revisit this scenario next season.

In the bullpen, the Sox need one "veteran arm," and I'm going to suggest a familiar one; Kerry Wood. Because he was hurt again for the first half of last season, he might not get the multi-year deal that he covets. I doubt he'd sign anywhere other than the Cubs on a 1-year deal, but 2 years might not be a bad investment. I wouldn't spend more than $8M over the 2-year contract, and am unsure about whether he could receive more. (This one's just thrown at the wall. I can't accurately predict reliever value.)

There are glaring weaknesses to this proposed club, but I'm just looking to be competitive (80-85 wins) in '08, not win a title. The Sox would need every star in the sky to align to achieve that goal.

I'm not going to go on a rant when the Sox don't follow the South Side Sox Officially Sanctioned Plan™ to the letter. I know they won't. I'll be looking for them to follow the following edicts:

  • No contracts longer than 2 years (I could be persuaded to 3) to 30-and-over players.
  • Do not sign any Type A Free Agents not named A-Rod.
  • Practice restraint on the open market.
  • Hold onto the following 3 minor leaguers in any trade (in order): DLS, Gio, Carter.
As long as the Sox follow those guidelines, they'll remain flexible enough to be competitive in the near future, and return to 90-win territory in 3-4 years.

Salary charts with projected probable rosters after the jump

Star-divide

Current Roster obligations (no Crede)

Pos   Name                   2008     2009     2010    2011
P     Buehrle, Mark        $14.00   $14.00   $14.00  $14.00
P     Contreras, Jose      $10.00   $10.00
OF    Dye, Jermaine         $9.50   $11.50    $1.00
OF    Erstad, Darin         $0.25
P     Garland, Jon         $12.00
C     Hall, Toby            $1.75    $0.15* 
1B    Konerko, Paul        $12.00   $12.00   $12.00
P     MacDougal, Mike       $1.95    $2.65    $0.35*
UTL   Ozuna, Pablo          $1.05    $0.20*  
C     Pierzynski, A.J.      $5.85    $6.25    $6.25
1B    Thome, Jim           $14.00    $3.00
P     Thornton, Matt        $0.875   $1.325   $0.25*
SS    Uribe, Juan           $0.30
P     Vazquez, Javier      $11.50   $11.50   $11.50 
============================================================
                           $95.025  $72.575  $45.35   $14.00
============================================================
      Cash (Thome)         ($5.00)
============================================================
                           $90.025  $72.575  $45.35   $14.00

South Side Sox Officailly Sanctioned Off-Season Plan

Pos   Name                   2008     2009     2010    2011
P     Buehrle, Mark        $14.00   $14.00   $14.00  $14.00
OF    Burrell, Pat         $14.00
P     Contreras, Jose      $10.00   $10.00
OF    Cameron, Mike        $11.50   $11.50
OF    Dye, Jermaine         $9.50   $11.50    $1.00
OF    Erstad, Darin         $0.25
SS    Furcal, Rafael       $13.00
C     Hall, Toby            $1.75    $0.15* 
1B    Konerko, Paul        $12.00   $12.00   $12.00
P     MacDougal, Mike       $1.95    $2.65    $0.35*
UTL   Ozuna, Pablo          $1.05    $0.20*  
C     Pierzynski, A.J.      $5.85    $6.25    $6.25
1B    Thome, Jim           $14.00    $3.00
P     Thornton, Matt        $0.875   $1.325   $0.25*
SS    Uribe, Juan           $0.30
P     Vazquez, Javier      $11.50   $11.50   $11.50 
============================================================
                          $121.525  $84.075  $45.35   $14.00
============================================================
      Cash (Thome)         ($5.00)
      Cash (Burrell)       ($4.00)
      Cash (Furcal)        ($3.00)
============================================================
                          $109.525  $84.075  $45.35   $14.00

Iceberg, what iceberg?

Pos   Name                   2008     2009     2010    2011
P     Buehrle, Mark        $14.00   $14.00   $14.00  $14.00
P     Contreras, Jose      $10.00   $10.00
OF    Dye, Jermaine         $9.50   $11.50    $1.00
OF    Damon, Johnny        $13.00   $13.00
SS    Eckstein, David       $6.00    $7.00    $8.00
OF    Erstad, Darin         $0.25
P     Garland, Jon         $12.00
C     Hall, Toby            $1.75    $0.15* 
1B    Konerko, Paul        $12.00   $12.00   $12.00
P     MacDougal, Mike       $1.95    $2.65    $0.35*
UTL   Ozuna, Pablo          $1.05    $0.20*  
C     Pierzynski, A.J.      $5.85    $6.25    $6.25
OF    Rowand, Aaron        $13.00   $13.00   $14.00   $14.00
1B    Thome, Jim           $14.00    $3.00
P     Thornton, Matt        $0.875   $1.325   $0.25*
SS    Uribe, Juan           $0.30
P     Vazquez, Javier      $11.50   $11.50   $11.50 
============================================================
                          $127.025  105.575  $67.35   $28.00
============================================================
      Cash (Thome)         ($5.00)
      Cash (Damon)         ($3.00)   (3.00)
============================================================
                          $119.025  102.575  $67.35   $28.00

0 recs | Comment 136 comments

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Pull quotes
New feature in the backend system?  Pretty nifty, either way.

by Sox Machine on Nov 5, 2007 2:00 AM CST   0 recs

Nah
I hacked the CSS myself
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 2:01 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I spent an hour
trying to Show/Hide the payrolls within the post tonight. Something wasn't quite working right within the posts so I gave up. (It works in the sidebar, but not the posts.)
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 2:05 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Those edicts are basically part of every plan
that's been posted that makes sense to me.  So hopefully KW's with you on that.

Also: the Iceberg plan is scary.  

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Nov 5, 2007 6:01 AM CST   0 recs

Iceberg
funny
"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Nov 5, 2007 6:33 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I've come around on this Furcal thing..
The more I hear on it, the more I like it. Good plan. And realistic. You put a team out that would keep the masses happy and with a lot of luck compete.

As long as attendance stays strong, in 3 or 4 years you can be highly competitive.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Nov 5, 2007 6:33 AM CST   0 recs

For PR purposes
they've got to make at least one splashy move this offseason as a gesture of apology for the brutal punishment inflicted on the fans last year, so I think either Rowand or Hunter are coming here.  Flip a coin.  And again for PR purposes, that'll distract people when they trade Garland. You can't trade Garland without signing a big FA.  Plus either of them brings that grind & edge that KW & Ozzie lust after.

I just can't see Eckstein coming here, it makes no sense.  When (not if) he gets injured, there's no one else in the org who can play SS. I think they learned their lesson last year about relying on china dolls like Erstad to fill a key role for you.  Uribe sucks but at least he's been durable, so I think he's coming back for one more maddening year unless they swing your deal for a Furcal or Bill Hall.  I'd be ecstatic if we could somehow get Furcal for a package including Contreras.

So I'm on board with you, the MB, JD and AJ extensions pretty much assure that KW is going the veteran route.  My first guess is we avoid the direct hit and just glance off your iceberg - we sign Rowand/Hunter, but no Eckstein. At this point, just about any changes they make will please me.  After suffering though Pods, a crippled Joe Crede, Angel Gonzalez, Erstad, Fat Toby & Co. anything will look good in comparison.  Christ, just their roster cuts to date have me dancing a jig.  80-85 wins would feel like a pennant compared to last year.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 6:36 AM CST   0 recs

Burrell has a no trade and won't waive it.
Now, the Sox need vets in the bullpen ? I'm glad you  finally came around on that. Although, I really think that Wood will have better offers than that and probably to start, which is what he prefers to do.
Who's the second baseman ? Richar ?

I like your idea about the compensation picks aas well as holding onto the minor league talent they currently have.

Are you suggesting the Sox trade for Damon ? I hope not because they already have Jerry Owens for free.

by White Sox Randy on Nov 5, 2007 8:40 AM CST   0 recs

I know that Damon is old and expensive...
but comparing him to Jerry Owens is just plain awful.  Jerry Owens won't sniff the career that Damon has had.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 9:23 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Damon's no JO:
Better power.  Better OBP.  A better basestealer.  Damon used to have a decent glove (never an arm) but is probably less rangy than Owens.

I still don't want either one.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 10:05 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Damon is simply NOT a better base stealer than
Owens and at this stage is Owens inferior defensively. About the only thing better about Damon now is that he has more power.

Owens might get better but Damon will only get slower and worse.

by White Sox Randy on Nov 5, 2007 10:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Who would you feel more comfortable with...
leading off for your 2008 Chicago White Sox -- Jerry Owens or Johnny Damon?

C'mon, the proof is in the pudding.

The jury is still out on whether or not Jerry Owens will ever be a quality leadoff hitter.  All we know right now is that he looks like a fourth or fifth outfielder at best after last season.  A .324 OBP and a .636 OPS doesn't look good at any spot in a Major League lineup.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:02 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Please, don't mention that name
Jerry Owens is another poster boy for 2007, I'm trying to erase him from memory.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Are you high?
And, remember, I don't want Damon because of his age and cost, but please don't tell me JO only lacks power compared to JD ('07 stats):

.351 vs. 324 OBP
.396 vs. .312(!) SLG
27 SB/3 CS vs. 33 SB/8 CS
66BB/79K vs. 27 BB/65K (!)

He's more patient, at the plate and on the basepaths.  He has more pop (who doesn't?) and isn't intimidated in the least by pressure, uit appears (in Boston and NY he's done just fine).

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 11:37 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

wow
so when players get within about 30 OPS+ points they're comparable, huh. saying those two aren't "as different as they used to be" doesn't really mean anything.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 10:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

as long as we agree
Peperony and chease

by colintj on Nov 5, 2007 10:12 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

And look at Damon's OPS+'s the past few years...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/damonjo01.shtml

I will bank on Damon hitting 100+ OPS+ in 2008 before Owens even gets close.  Hell, you could probably put a -30 point handicap on Damon and he would still win.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:08 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Are some posters here really buying...
what Hawk the Homer is selling about Jerry Owens potential talent?  Hawk fluffed Erstad up and where is he now?

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:09 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Please, don't mention that name any more
and no more Johnie Damon either.  Thank you.  Do we really want to see the declining years of an oft-injured 34yr old noodle-armed corner OF who'll give us little power and can't run anymore?  This isn't 2004, he's done as a good ballplayer.  Think Erstad (sorry), don't make the mistake of buying Damon's reputation.  Let the Yankees chew on that mistake.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:18 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I will chew on the mistake...
if the Yankees pay a lot of Damon's salary.  What good is one year of Crede coming off of back surgery anyways?  Do we hope that he repeats his fluke 2006 season?  People seem to forget about Crede's awesome career line (.259/.305/.446/.751).  I know his defense is great but a 92 career OPS+ coming off of back surgery doesn't scream trade value.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:32 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

His numbers look decent
as a CF, but he can't play CF anymore.  He's a mediocre LF at best with the bat he'll probably be around .750 - .800 OPS, and his defense and arm are bad.  I guess he's an upgrade over Pods or JO, but his .350 OBP isn't that thrilling at leadoff.

But on the plus side his contract is up in two years, so if the Yankees eat a big chunk of his salary he's not the end of the world.  And he grinds I guess.  The biggest plus is that his wife has an ungodly body:

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:50 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Good ethics, too
He threw over his former wife/mother of his children for the stripper pictured.

Nice.  Paulie/Thomer will love it. Gotta have at least one wife who will get naked at the drop of a hat...

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 11:56 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Someone needs to replace Mrs. Pods!
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 12:01 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

first we compare damon to owens
and now to erstad. are you guys serious? i'm not enamored by any means enamored by damon but jeez. these are ridiculous comps to make. oft-injured?  can't run? little power?

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 11:41 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

How about "a bulked up Pods"?
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:54 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

again
i'm not getting any of these comps. quit trying to compare him to players on the white sox. he's far superior to all of these players. he gets on base. he can actually hit for decent power. he's never been on the DL. when he has had nagging injuries, they haven't been to his legs. he actually knows how to steal bases and doesn't rely on just speed to do it. neither owens nor pods nor erstad are remotely like him.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 12:00 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Watching him play LF in the playoffs
vs. Cleveland made me ill.  Same queasy feeling I have watching Pods or Jesse, that's my comp.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 12:05 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

evaluating outfield defense
by watching on tv is folly. fine, he's got a shitty arm. that's about 10% of what makes a good defensive outfielder. an overrated attribute beyond belief.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 12:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

spare me the TV remarks
So what are you doing Mr. Baseball Expert, you're out there in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium watching him, studying that first step before the pitch is thrown, watching his break at the crack of the bat?  Guys were taking extra bases off of him at will that entire ALDS.  All that was missing was a fly ball popping him in the noggin.  I'm assuming that you think he's a good OF, so how are you coming to your conclusion?  Other than watching TV, of course.

Since fielding stats are notoriously unreliable, would you agree that tangotiger scouting reports are useful?  If so, please note that Damon is ranked with Jerry Owens, Jacques Jones, Jason Kendall and David Eckstein as his most similar peers.  Defensive wizards all.  So yeah, I'd say that not only is his arm pathetic (a ZERO rating) he also sucks as an overall OF.  I've seen it with my own eyes on TV, he's bad.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 4:39 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

i don't think he's an above average outfielder
i'm just not sure he's as bad as you imply. i certainly wouldn't base anything off of one series, let alone one series that i watched just on tv. i can't see what he's doing and where he's starting on tv. personally, i don't care if he gets hit on the head like pods did on a ball that he couldn't have caught. that's window dressing. it's certainly a cute thing to bring up in arguments about a player and to have a laugh about - i know i did - but it's pretty irrelevant to someone's overall fielding ability.

damon's arm sucks. that's always been a failing. but i think arm is something that gets overplayed on defense. failing to catch balls, taking unnecessary risks, or failing to prevent balls from going to the wall is where an outfielder gives up the most bases, not stopping guys from taking an extra base with their arm. when i watched damon play, i thought he was excellent at positioning himself and in his first step. he also is helped a bit by having some makeup speed. i haven't watched him in left. i would bet he's hurt somewhat by the fact that he didn't have as good of a sense of what pitch was coming and so on, as that is usual for a guy moving from center to left. that probably hurts his first step.

i'd note that the fielding bible has jerry owens ranked as the 8th best centerfielder in plus/minus. i'd also note that scotty is their top ranked LFer between 2005-2007. there are different ways to measure defense. i would say, however, that watching on tv is amongst the worst measures for outfielders. so is worrying about style points. pods doesn't "look good" when he's out there. guys like derek jeter and grady sizemore do. i wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion from that perception that jeter or sizemore is a better defender than pods.

http://www.fieldingbible.com/

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 5:07 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The Yankees DH'd him 47 times in 2007
Which means a third of the time that Torre had him in the lineup he couldn't stomach seeing him in the OF.  Matsui played 980 innings in LF to Damon's 271.  Cabrera 1072 in CF to his 377.  He didn't play an inning in RF.  

Matsui has 12 SB in five years, so even with Damon's acknowledged huge advantage in speed Torre felt he had better defense with a plodding Godzilla out there.  Damon is not a good OF, in fact he's BAD.  Offensively he's been putting up OPS+'s of around 110 in CF, adjusting for LF that'll be under 95 - plus he's declining.  For $13mm/yr he's a huge waste of money any way you cut it.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 6:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

That's more due to the fact that...
Matsui has a better arm than Damon.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 6:32 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Not according to Mr. Baseball Expert
.../fine, he's got a shitty arm. that's about 10% of what makes a good defensive outfielder. an overrated attribute beyond belief. /
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 6:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

u want defense?
play brian anderson

by Jbasic89 on Nov 5, 2007 6:50 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

pete
do you really need to be such an ass to me?

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 7:06 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

don't like it do you?
Your people skills leave a lot to be desired, it's not fun being on the other end is it now?  You're not the only one allowed to make assertions, and you don't need to call everyone a dumbass and other personal stuff when they state an opinion.  You certainly know your stuff, you can share it in a more pleasant manner.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 7:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

could you point out where i called
someone a dumbass or any other personal stuff?

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 7:41 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

The fact is that outfield defense is great and all
and it's nice to have a power arm out there but that doesn't mean I am going to start Brian Anderson and Jerry Owens over Johnny Damon.  Who is going to help a team win more games when combining their offensive and defensive qualities?

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 7:46 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

you guys are adorable
bristly.

but adorable.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Nov 5, 2007 8:04 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'm just
fucking with him, I didn't mean to make him cry.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

i think it will take a little more than that
i'm just wondering why an intelligent and educated person chooses to stoop to name-calling and other lowbrow rhetorical tactics. seems quite unnecessary, especially for someone like you.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 8:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

I'm sorry
I offended you Larry, please accept my apologies.  Here, use my handkerchief you sensitive little brute you.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:26 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Here at the University of Michigan, we teach
our boys that, really, formal education is overrated and that, ultimately, knowing exactly how to use the word "fuck" will get you a lot farther in life.  Being cultured and well-rounded probably has a lot going for it, but we of the maize-and-blue like to do things a little differently.  We want you to take that Frat Boy Douche Bag that you only bring out when you're really hammered and give it some room to breath.  Try it when you're only kinda drunk.  Or even sober!

That's the Michigan difference.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Nov 6, 2007 7:48 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

very true
UM is not a place for the faint of heart, they're usually long gone by sophomore year.  And the administrators made sure they gave you a nice swift kick in the ass on the way out the door.  I worked construction during summers, and most of my college buddies were in the auto factories - our poker games during reunions are, shall we say, interesting.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 6, 2007 8:10 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Is this Bruce Springsteen?
"I got a job workin' construction...."

;)

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 6, 2007 8:18 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

"Make good money
Five dollar a day"
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 6, 2007 8:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

yup
i place the fascination with arm strength in an outfielder right below the fascination with speed in a leadoff hitter - both are biases that are often detrimental to their teams. as was pointed out in this year's bill james handbook, ozzie often replaced pods with mackowiak late in games for defensive purposes, obviously based on rob's superior arm. however, pods was above average in preventing baserunners from taking an extra base due to his ability to get to balls quickly. you'd obviously need to delve deeper into the numbers but such moves look like, at best, a wash.

and damon did play in rightfield.  

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 7:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

So now you know OF defense better than Torre?
I think I'll trust his judgement more than yours if you don't mind.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 7:20 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

i find it interesting
that you cite to tangotiger for defensive ratings and tell me they're useful, which they certainly are. i then post something that is supported by your useful source and you tell me that joe torre has better judgment than both me and tangotiger.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 8:08 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

since when
do lawyers fight fair?
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:13 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Whatever happened to
"So's your Mom" in ending a discussion?  Man up, men!
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 8:40 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hey, we need to hone our arguing skills
before the big FA signing period next week.  Nothing like a good old fashioned "I'm right and you're an idiot" argument to get the juices flowing.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:55 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Hey pete
Im not the only one that thinks you are full of *hit!
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 6, 2007 3:01 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Cheat
I don't see "be involved in Carl Crawford trade rumors" anywhere in the offseason plan.
Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Nov 5, 2007 11:28 AM CST   0 recs

I LOVE Carl Crawford!
But what about Rocco Baldelli?????
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:38 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

What about him???
??????????????????????????????????????????????.
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 2:24 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

you must be new here...
old running joke/common thread.

for the new guys, we have SSS intro seminars on the second thursday of every month. and just to make sure people attend, there will be punch and pie.

by thatshortkid on Nov 5, 2007 4:35 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Love that movie!
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Nov 5, 2007 6:10 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

LOL, short one
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 6:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

that boner Bruce Levine
is reporting the Cubs and Sox are both pursuing a trade for him. Of course this comes with absolutely no details. I'm hoping Friedman tells Hendry and Kenny he will cut Crawford in half, and Kenny knows his King Solomon.
Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Nov 5, 2007 12:19 PM CST to parent up   0 recs