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South Side Sox Officially Sanctioned Off-Season Plan

Nobody likes being second guessed. So with the GM meetings beginning a few hours after this piece is posted, and the free agent frenzy due to start in a week, it's time to do some first-guessing.

First of all, there is one large caveat to my off-season plan. Given my own way, I would have started in May. Back then, I was banging the drum for Pods and Erstad to be released (in one form or another), Dye to be traded, and Buehrle re-signed. The last of which seemed a bit of pipe dream at the time, but 6 weeks later became reality.

...The White Sox will have to buy time as much as talent on the open market... If the Sox have the budget to field competitive teams between now and '10, they should do so.
In truth, my plan still hasn't changed much; they've only been delayed. I'd feel better if Kenny had been able to put a more athletic, more youthful team on the field last year through a more proactive trade deadline, and I wouldn't have handed out new contracts to Jermaine Dye and AJ Pierzynski, but the moving parts should remain pretty much the same. It's the circumstances which have changed.

The Pierzynski and Dye extensions have dictated the Sox moves in '08 (and even '09). They've backed themselves into a position where they must spend (ridiculous amounts of) money through the free agent market in order to put a competitive team on the field the next two seasons.

Back in May, I said the Sox couldn't stand a full-fledged rebuilding effort, and the same still holds true today. So while I might want the Sox to get younger, and fast, first they may have to get older.

As we've written a number of times over the last two seasons, the Sox minor league system is in a sorry state. There are a precious few impact players in the entire system, and only one can be (realistically) projected to make the '09 team. This lack of organizational talent has cost a number of people their jobs, and further forces the hand of the front office.

Doing this exercise, I've come around to the notion that the White Sox will have to buy time as much as talent on the open market. My mid-season plan to dump Dye and others for youth would have dumped payroll and made the Sox more financially nimble, but the reality is that they still would have been bad in '08, and '09, and probably '10 too. If the Sox have the budget to field competitive teams between now and '10, they should do so as long as they don't sacrifice the key minor league talent that will push them to their next playoff contender in '11.

For the purposes of this post, I'm going to use a budget of about $115M (I could see them going as high as $125M under the right circumstances). There's no way to know exactly what the White Sox '08 budget will be, but attendance remained strong, which for the White Sox almost always correlates to money spent the following season. And there have been whispers of MLBAM, mainly the MLB.TV revenue, seeing another large increase this season, which should make all teams flush with cash and push free agent salaries even higher than last year.

The Sox already have $90M committed to 12 players in '08, and that's without a 3B (Crede's arbitration award not included), a SS (Uribe's buyout exercised), or a CFer (Erstad has been bought out). Filling just those 3 holes on the free agent market would push them to the $115M very quickly. $90M + $13M (Rowand w/ discount) + $7M (Eckstein) + $5-10M (for a LFer in a Crede trade) puts the Sox at $115-120M even before adding in the low-salary guys. As such, I forsee the Sox needing to trade off some salary.

Crede and one of Contreras/Garland are still the main trade pieces, but instead of flipping them for young, multi-tooled players they should be turned into veterans who provide a better fit to the club and/or have the chance to be Type A free agents in '08. Crede has zero chance of becoming a Type A thanks to his '07 and Garland's win total in '07 also limits his compensation value. If these two could be flipped for departing probable Type A free agents, the Sox could quickly infuse high quality new talent into the organization while remaining competitive in the interim.

Two players who fill these requirements and are likely to be available are Rafael Furcal and Pat Burrell. Furcal carries a $13M salary and is blocking Chin-lung Hu, or even A-Rod. Philly has been looking to unload Burrell and his $14M contract for much of the last 3 seasons. Philly and LA would probably eat up to half of each contract for the addition of B prospect to the deal, but the Sox need to hold on to almost all of their prospects at this point. I imagine the Sox can get them for $10M a piece without having to give up a prospect of significant consequence.

If both Burrell and Furcal have good seasons and are offered arbitration following the season, the Sox could be looking at 5 picks in the first 60. To put that in perspective, in the last three drafts the Sox have had a total of 6 picks in the top 100. Such an infusion of talent can not be discounted. (Fields and Gio are both products of the 2004 draft which saw the Sox take 5 of the first 59 players drafted.) The teams which have used this strategy most effectively recently are the Yankees and Red Sox, who have combined to take Jacoby Ellsbury, Craig Hansen, Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden, Ian Kennedy, and Joba Chamberlain in the first or supplemental rounds since '05.

In this scenario, I would look to add Mike Cameron, who remains a plus defensive CFer and one of the best baserunners in the game, won't need a long-term commitment, and might come at a bit of a discount thanks to his impending 25-game suspension. I would look to avoid the two Type A CFers (Rowand, Hunter), signing whom will cost the Sox their '08 2nd rounder. I wouldn't be against giving Furcal an extension, but would prefer him to turn into draft picks, and revisit this scenario next season.

In the bullpen, the Sox need one "veteran arm," and I'm going to suggest a familiar one; Kerry Wood. Because he was hurt again for the first half of last season, he might not get the multi-year deal that he covets. I doubt he'd sign anywhere other than the Cubs on a 1-year deal, but 2 years might not be a bad investment. I wouldn't spend more than $8M over the 2-year contract, and am unsure about whether he could receive more. (This one's just thrown at the wall. I can't accurately predict reliever value.)

There are glaring weaknesses to this proposed club, but I'm just looking to be competitive (80-85 wins) in '08, not win a title. The Sox would need every star in the sky to align to achieve that goal.

I'm not going to go on a rant when the Sox don't follow the South Side Sox Officially Sanctioned Plan™ to the letter. I know they won't. I'll be looking for them to follow the following edicts:

  • No contracts longer than 2 years (I could be persuaded to 3) to 30-and-over players.
  • Do not sign any Type A Free Agents not named A-Rod.
  • Practice restraint on the open market.
  • Hold onto the following 3 minor leaguers in any trade (in order): DLS, Gio, Carter.
As long as the Sox follow those guidelines, they'll remain flexible enough to be competitive in the near future, and return to 90-win territory in 3-4 years.

Salary charts with projected probable rosters after the jump

Star-divide

Current Roster obligations (no Crede)

Pos   Name                   2008     2009     2010    2011
P     Buehrle, Mark        $14.00   $14.00   $14.00  $14.00
P     Contreras, Jose      $10.00   $10.00
OF    Dye, Jermaine         $9.50   $11.50    $1.00
OF    Erstad, Darin         $0.25
P     Garland, Jon         $12.00
C     Hall, Toby            $1.75    $0.15* 
1B    Konerko, Paul        $12.00   $12.00   $12.00
P     MacDougal, Mike       $1.95    $2.65    $0.35*
UTL   Ozuna, Pablo          $1.05    $0.20*  
C     Pierzynski, A.J.      $5.85    $6.25    $6.25
1B    Thome, Jim           $14.00    $3.00
P     Thornton, Matt        $0.875   $1.325   $0.25*
SS    Uribe, Juan           $0.30
P     Vazquez, Javier      $11.50   $11.50   $11.50 
============================================================
                           $95.025  $72.575  $45.35   $14.00
============================================================
      Cash (Thome)         ($5.00)
============================================================
                           $90.025  $72.575  $45.35   $14.00

South Side Sox Officailly Sanctioned Off-Season Plan

Pos   Name                   2008     2009     2010    2011
P     Buehrle, Mark        $14.00   $14.00   $14.00  $14.00
OF    Burrell, Pat         $14.00
P     Contreras, Jose      $10.00   $10.00
OF    Cameron, Mike        $11.50   $11.50
OF    Dye, Jermaine         $9.50   $11.50    $1.00
OF    Erstad, Darin         $0.25
SS    Furcal, Rafael       $13.00
C     Hall, Toby            $1.75    $0.15* 
1B    Konerko, Paul        $12.00   $12.00   $12.00
P     MacDougal, Mike       $1.95    $2.65    $0.35*
UTL   Ozuna, Pablo          $1.05    $0.20*  
C     Pierzynski, A.J.      $5.85    $6.25    $6.25
1B    Thome, Jim           $14.00    $3.00
P     Thornton, Matt        $0.875   $1.325   $0.25*
SS    Uribe, Juan           $0.30
P     Vazquez, Javier      $11.50   $11.50   $11.50 
============================================================
                          $121.525  $84.075  $45.35   $14.00
============================================================
      Cash (Thome)         ($5.00)
      Cash (Burrell)       ($4.00)
      Cash (Furcal)        ($3.00)
============================================================
                          $109.525  $84.075  $45.35   $14.00

Iceberg, what iceberg?

Pos   Name                   2008     2009     2010    2011
P     Buehrle, Mark        $14.00   $14.00   $14.00  $14.00
P     Contreras, Jose      $10.00   $10.00
OF    Dye, Jermaine         $9.50   $11.50    $1.00
OF    Damon, Johnny        $13.00   $13.00
SS    Eckstein, David       $6.00    $7.00    $8.00
OF    Erstad, Darin         $0.25
P     Garland, Jon         $12.00
C     Hall, Toby            $1.75    $0.15* 
1B    Konerko, Paul        $12.00   $12.00   $12.00
P     MacDougal, Mike       $1.95    $2.65    $0.35*
UTL   Ozuna, Pablo          $1.05    $0.20*  
C     Pierzynski, A.J.      $5.85    $6.25    $6.25
OF    Rowand, Aaron        $13.00   $13.00   $14.00   $14.00
1B    Thome, Jim           $14.00    $3.00
P     Thornton, Matt        $0.875   $1.325   $0.25*
SS    Uribe, Juan           $0.30
P     Vazquez, Javier      $11.50   $11.50   $11.50 
============================================================
                          $127.025  105.575  $67.35   $28.00
============================================================
      Cash (Thome)         ($5.00)
      Cash (Damon)         ($3.00)   (3.00)
============================================================
                          $119.025  102.575  $67.35   $28.00

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New feature in the backend system?  Pretty nifty, either way.

by Sox Machine on Nov 5, 2007 2:00 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nah
I hacked the CSS myself
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 2:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I spent an hour
trying to Show/Hide the payrolls within the post tonight. Something wasn't quite working right within the posts so I gave up. (It works in the sidebar, but not the posts.)
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 2:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Those edicts are basically part of every plan
that's been posted that makes sense to me.  So hopefully KW's with you on that.

Also: the Iceberg plan is scary.  

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Nov 5, 2007 6:01 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Iceberg
funny
"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Nov 5, 2007 6:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I've come around on this Furcal thing..
The more I hear on it, the more I like it. Good plan. And realistic. You put a team out that would keep the masses happy and with a lot of luck compete.

As long as attendance stays strong, in 3 or 4 years you can be highly competitive.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Nov 5, 2007 6:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

For PR purposes
they've got to make at least one splashy move this offseason as a gesture of apology for the brutal punishment inflicted on the fans last year, so I think either Rowand or Hunter are coming here.  Flip a coin.  And again for PR purposes, that'll distract people when they trade Garland. You can't trade Garland without signing a big FA.  Plus either of them brings that grind & edge that KW & Ozzie lust after.

I just can't see Eckstein coming here, it makes no sense.  When (not if) he gets injured, there's no one else in the org who can play SS. I think they learned their lesson last year about relying on china dolls like Erstad to fill a key role for you.  Uribe sucks but at least he's been durable, so I think he's coming back for one more maddening year unless they swing your deal for a Furcal or Bill Hall.  I'd be ecstatic if we could somehow get Furcal for a package including Contreras.

So I'm on board with you, the MB, JD and AJ extensions pretty much assure that KW is going the veteran route.  My first guess is we avoid the direct hit and just glance off your iceberg - we sign Rowand/Hunter, but no Eckstein. At this point, just about any changes they make will please me.  After suffering though Pods, a crippled Joe Crede, Angel Gonzalez, Erstad, Fat Toby & Co. anything will look good in comparison.  Christ, just their roster cuts to date have me dancing a jig.  80-85 wins would feel like a pennant compared to last year.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 6:36 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Burrell has a no trade and won't waive it.
Now, the Sox need vets in the bullpen ? I'm glad you  finally came around on that. Although, I really think that Wood will have better offers than that and probably to start, which is what he prefers to do.
Who's the second baseman ? Richar ?

I like your idea about the compensation picks aas well as holding onto the minor league talent they currently have.

Are you suggesting the Sox trade for Damon ? I hope not because they already have Jerry Owens for free.

by White Sox Randy on Nov 5, 2007 8:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I know that Damon is old and expensive...
but comparing him to Jerry Owens is just plain awful.  Jerry Owens won't sniff the career that Damon has had.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Damon's no JO:
Better power.  Better OBP.  A better basestealer.  Damon used to have a decent glove (never an arm) but is probably less rangy than Owens.

I still don't want either one.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 10:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Damon is simply NOT a better base stealer than
Owens and at this stage is Owens inferior defensively. About the only thing better about Damon now is that he has more power.

Owens might get better but Damon will only get slower and worse.

by White Sox Randy on Nov 5, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who would you feel more comfortable with...
leading off for your 2008 Chicago White Sox -- Jerry Owens or Johnny Damon?

C'mon, the proof is in the pudding.

The jury is still out on whether or not Jerry Owens will ever be a quality leadoff hitter.  All we know right now is that he looks like a fourth or fifth outfielder at best after last season.  A .324 OBP and a .636 OPS doesn't look good at any spot in a Major League lineup.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Please, don't mention that name
Jerry Owens is another poster boy for 2007, I'm trying to erase him from memory.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you high?
And, remember, I don't want Damon because of his age and cost, but please don't tell me JO only lacks power compared to JD ('07 stats):

.351 vs. 324 OBP
.396 vs. .312(!) SLG
27 SB/3 CS vs. 33 SB/8 CS
66BB/79K vs. 27 BB/65K (!)

He's more patient, at the plate and on the basepaths.  He has more pop (who doesn't?) and isn't intimidated in the least by pressure, uit appears (in Boston and NY he's done just fine).

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wow
so when players get within about 30 OPS+ points they're comparable, huh. saying those two aren't "as different as they used to be" doesn't really mean anything.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 10:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And look at Damon's OPS+'s the past few years...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/damonjo01.shtml

I will bank on Damon hitting 100+ OPS+ in 2008 before Owens even gets close.  Hell, you could probably put a -30 point handicap on Damon and he would still win.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Are some posters here really buying...
what Hawk the Homer is selling about Jerry Owens potential talent?  Hawk fluffed Erstad up and where is he now?

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:09 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Please, don't mention that name any more
and no more Johnie Damon either.  Thank you.  Do we really want to see the declining years of an oft-injured 34yr old noodle-armed corner OF who'll give us little power and can't run anymore?  This isn't 2004, he's done as a good ballplayer.  Think Erstad (sorry), don't make the mistake of buying Damon's reputation.  Let the Yankees chew on that mistake.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I will chew on the mistake...
if the Yankees pay a lot of Damon's salary.  What good is one year of Crede coming off of back surgery anyways?  Do we hope that he repeats his fluke 2006 season?  People seem to forget about Crede's awesome career line (.259/.305/.446/.751).  I know his defense is great but a 92 career OPS+ coming off of back surgery doesn't scream trade value.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 11:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

His numbers look decent
as a CF, but he can't play CF anymore.  He's a mediocre LF at best with the bat he'll probably be around .750 - .800 OPS, and his defense and arm are bad.  I guess he's an upgrade over Pods or JO, but his .350 OBP isn't that thrilling at leadoff.

But on the plus side his contract is up in two years, so if the Yankees eat a big chunk of his salary he's not the end of the world.  And he grinds I guess.  The biggest plus is that his wife has an ungodly body:

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good ethics, too
He threw over his former wife/mother of his children for the stripper pictured.

Nice.  Paulie/Thomer will love it. Gotta have at least one wife who will get naked at the drop of a hat...

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 11:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Someone needs to replace Mrs. Pods!
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

first we compare damon to owens
and now to erstad. are you guys serious? i'm not enamored by any means enamored by damon but jeez. these are ridiculous comps to make. oft-injured?  can't run? little power?

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How about "a bulked up Pods"?
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

again
i'm not getting any of these comps. quit trying to compare him to players on the white sox. he's far superior to all of these players. he gets on base. he can actually hit for decent power. he's never been on the DL. when he has had nagging injuries, they haven't been to his legs. he actually knows how to steal bases and doesn't rely on just speed to do it. neither owens nor pods nor erstad are remotely like him.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 12:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Watching him play LF in the playoffs
vs. Cleveland made me ill.  Same queasy feeling I have watching Pods or Jesse, that's my comp.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 12:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

evaluating outfield defense
by watching on tv is folly. fine, he's got a shitty arm. that's about 10% of what makes a good defensive outfielder. an overrated attribute beyond belief.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

spare me the TV remarks
So what are you doing Mr. Baseball Expert, you're out there in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium watching him, studying that first step before the pitch is thrown, watching his break at the crack of the bat?  Guys were taking extra bases off of him at will that entire ALDS.  All that was missing was a fly ball popping him in the noggin.  I'm assuming that you think he's a good OF, so how are you coming to your conclusion?  Other than watching TV, of course.

Since fielding stats are notoriously unreliable, would you agree that tangotiger scouting reports are useful?  If so, please note that Damon is ranked with Jerry Owens, Jacques Jones, Jason Kendall and David Eckstein as his most similar peers.  Defensive wizards all.  So yeah, I'd say that not only is his arm pathetic (a ZERO rating) he also sucks as an overall OF.  I've seen it with my own eyes on TV, he's bad.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think he's an above average outfielder
i'm just not sure he's as bad as you imply. i certainly wouldn't base anything off of one series, let alone one series that i watched just on tv. i can't see what he's doing and where he's starting on tv. personally, i don't care if he gets hit on the head like pods did on a ball that he couldn't have caught. that's window dressing. it's certainly a cute thing to bring up in arguments about a player and to have a laugh about - i know i did - but it's pretty irrelevant to someone's overall fielding ability.

damon's arm sucks. that's always been a failing. but i think arm is something that gets overplayed on defense. failing to catch balls, taking unnecessary risks, or failing to prevent balls from going to the wall is where an outfielder gives up the most bases, not stopping guys from taking an extra base with their arm. when i watched damon play, i thought he was excellent at positioning himself and in his first step. he also is helped a bit by having some makeup speed. i haven't watched him in left. i would bet he's hurt somewhat by the fact that he didn't have as good of a sense of what pitch was coming and so on, as that is usual for a guy moving from center to left. that probably hurts his first step.

i'd note that the fielding bible has jerry owens ranked as the 8th best centerfielder in plus/minus. i'd also note that scotty is their top ranked LFer between 2005-2007. there are different ways to measure defense. i would say, however, that watching on tv is amongst the worst measures for outfielders. so is worrying about style points. pods doesn't "look good" when he's out there. guys like derek jeter and grady sizemore do. i wouldn't necessarily draw the conclusion from that perception that jeter or sizemore is a better defender than pods.

http://www.fieldingbible.com/

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 5:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees DH'd him 47 times in 2007
Which means a third of the time that Torre had him in the lineup he couldn't stomach seeing him in the OF.  Matsui played 980 innings in LF to Damon's 271.  Cabrera 1072 in CF to his 377.  He didn't play an inning in RF.  

Matsui has 12 SB in five years, so even with Damon's acknowledged huge advantage in speed Torre felt he had better defense with a plodding Godzilla out there.  Damon is not a good OF, in fact he's BAD.  Offensively he's been putting up OPS+'s of around 110 in CF, adjusting for LF that'll be under 95 - plus he's declining.  For $13mm/yr he's a huge waste of money any way you cut it.

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 6:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's more due to the fact that...
Matsui has a better arm than Damon.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 6:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not according to Mr. Baseball Expert
.../fine, he's got a shitty arm. that's about 10% of what makes a good defensive outfielder. an overrated attribute beyond belief. /
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

u want defense?
play brian anderson

by Jbasic89 on Nov 5, 2007 6:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pete
do you really need to be such an ass to me?

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 7:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

don't like it do you?
Your people skills leave a lot to be desired, it's not fun being on the other end is it now?  You're not the only one allowed to make assertions, and you don't need to call everyone a dumbass and other personal stuff when they state an opinion.  You certainly know your stuff, you can share it in a more pleasant manner.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 7:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

could you point out where i called
someone a dumbass or any other personal stuff?

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 7:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The fact is that outfield defense is great and all
and it's nice to have a power arm out there but that doesn't mean I am going to start Brian Anderson and Jerry Owens over Johnny Damon.  Who is going to help a team win more games when combining their offensive and defensive qualities?

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 7:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you guys are adorable
bristly.

but adorable.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Nov 5, 2007 8:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just
fucking with him, I didn't mean to make him cry.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think it will take a little more than that
i'm just wondering why an intelligent and educated person chooses to stoop to name-calling and other lowbrow rhetorical tactics. seems quite unnecessary, especially for someone like you.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 8:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry
I offended you Larry, please accept my apologies.  Here, use my handkerchief you sensitive little brute you.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here at the University of Michigan, we teach
our boys that, really, formal education is overrated and that, ultimately, knowing exactly how to use the word "fuck" will get you a lot farther in life.  Being cultured and well-rounded probably has a lot going for it, but we of the maize-and-blue like to do things a little differently.  We want you to take that Frat Boy Douche Bag that you only bring out when you're really hammered and give it some room to breath.  Try it when you're only kinda drunk.  Or even sober!

That's the Michigan difference.

Peperony and chease

by colintj on Nov 6, 2007 7:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

very true
UM is not a place for the faint of heart, they're usually long gone by sophomore year.  And the administrators made sure they gave you a nice swift kick in the ass on the way out the door.  I worked construction during summers, and most of my college buddies were in the auto factories - our poker games during reunions are, shall we say, interesting.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 6, 2007 8:10 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is this Bruce Springsteen?
"I got a job workin' construction...."

;)

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 6, 2007 8:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Make good money
Five dollar a day"
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 6, 2007 8:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yup
i place the fascination with arm strength in an outfielder right below the fascination with speed in a leadoff hitter - both are biases that are often detrimental to their teams. as was pointed out in this year's bill james handbook, ozzie often replaced pods with mackowiak late in games for defensive purposes, obviously based on rob's superior arm. however, pods was above average in preventing baserunners from taking an extra base due to his ability to get to balls quickly. you'd obviously need to delve deeper into the numbers but such moves look like, at best, a wash.

and damon did play in rightfield.  

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 7:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So now you know OF defense better than Torre?
I think I'll trust his judgement more than yours if you don't mind.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 7:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i find it interesting
that you cite to tangotiger for defensive ratings and tell me they're useful, which they certainly are. i then post something that is supported by your useful source and you tell me that joe torre has better judgment than both me and tangotiger.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 8:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

since when
do lawyers fight fair?
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever happened to
"So's your Mom" in ending a discussion?  Man up, men!
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 8:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, we need to hone our arguing skills
before the big FA signing period next week.  Nothing like a good old fashioned "I'm right and you're an idiot" argument to get the juices flowing.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 8:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey pete
Im not the only one that thinks you are full of *hit!
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 6, 2007 3:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cheat
I don't see "be involved in Carl Crawford trade rumors" anywhere in the offseason plan.
Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Nov 5, 2007 11:28 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I LOVE Carl Crawford!
But what about Rocco Baldelli?????
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 5, 2007 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What about him???
??????????????????????????????????????????????.
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you must be new here...
old running joke/common thread.

for the new guys, we have SSS intro seminars on the second thursday of every month. and just to make sure people attend, there will be punch and pie.

by thatshortkid on Nov 5, 2007 4:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Love that movie!
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Nov 5, 2007 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL, short one
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 6:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that boner Bruce Levine
is reporting the Cubs and Sox are both pursuing a trade for him. Of course this comes with absolutely no details. I'm hoping Friedman tells Hendry and Kenny he will cut Crawford in half, and Kenny knows his King Solomon.
Dubee and Danks and pray for Taco Bell

by hscs on Nov 5, 2007 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I still think we need to trade Paulie
I'd hate to do it but the long term of the success may depend on it.

We've said goodbye to many other Sox favorites for the better of the team:
Frank Thomas
Robin Ventura
Alex Fernandez
Wilson Alvarez
Jack McDowell

We could get alot of talent back, particularly from the Angels. Figgins, Willits, Wood, Aybar, Kotchman, and Santana are all possiblities. That would free up ~$10-12mil too that could be spent elsewhere.

It would be a scary PR move though.

by striker on Nov 5, 2007 11:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I have resisted the idea of trading
our 2005 MVP for sentimental reasons but based upon the poll next to this post it seems like no one would notice if he was gone.

Poor Paulie - being a solid, predictable producer, good husband/father/employee doesn't make for excitement.  Now if he comes up positive for HGH, well, sign him to an extension!

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 11:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't Mr. Konerko have a limited
no trade clause that goes into full effect this year?  Similar to the one that Buerhle got. I don't think Konerko can be traded unless he wants to.  

by coffeepac on Nov 5, 2007 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heres something to chew on.
Go through my comments and you will find that many of "your ideas" were exactly what I said to do with this team. Trading for a disgruntled Furcal to shore up our lead off spot. I hate Pat Burell dont ever say that name on here again. Signing Kerry Wood was a thought that I threw out there along with the possibility of signing Prior to a one or two year deal. As much as I hate having ex-cubs on our team, I think nothing would be sweeter than having coop work mechanics with these guys and it comes back to bite the cubs in the ass. As for Crede we need to keep him. We don't have THAT many clutch hitters on the team and we need his glove at 3rd. I like Fields but his defense was pretty atrocious while playing 3rd. Maybe he could get better but I believe you can't teach a guy to make plays it has to come naturally. He looks too mechanical at 3rd compared to Crede. We could sign Rowand or Hunter, don't complain about how old they are because they will add a much needed spark to the team/clubhouse. Miggy Cabrerra will be available in a trade this winter. I guess Ozzie could get Miguel Cabrerra to walk in a straight line... maybe he would respect Ozzie because they are both hispanic. We would be able to trade Fields and Crede plus some starting pitching to fix some other holes depending on how much the Marlins want in return. This is by no means a need but it might be nice to get a premiere player in the game if we decide we can't count on Crede. I think that Kenny has alot of options and will be able to field a team that can compete in the a.l. central.
Supaman that ho!

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 12:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Mike Cameron
I've really latched onto the idea of going after Cameron.  I'd be very pleased with the roster listed above, but have some questions about it.  Is Burrell acquired by trading Garland and/or Crede?  These moves seem realistic:
  • Crede for Damon + cash
  • Sign Cameron.
  • Furcal for ____ (???).
  • Garland for prospects.
That's a pretty good lineup.  The outfield defense is improved but the left side of the infield is going to take a hit.  

I'll still be hoping for Konerko and Contreras trades, though.

LF Damon
SS Furcal
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
CF Cameron
C Pierzynski
3B Fields
2B Richar

That looks like a slightly above average offensive group that could compete into September (probably not win the Central, but take 83-88 games).

by CWSKeith on Nov 5, 2007 12:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i'm on board with cameron
i'd be on board with crede for damon plus cash but i question the realism of that deal. damon is worth more than crede, in my opinion. and even though it's the yankees i'd certainly say he's worth more than crede and cash. there'd have to be something else included in that deal from the sox side and i don't know if i'd pay it.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

NO NO NO
Why would we trade for 2 lead off hitters? It's going to either be Damon OR Furcal. We don't need nor want both of those guys. If we can grab furcal then we could pursue Hunter/Jones/Rowand/ or other cf trade candidate. The sox are going to do anything they can to bring excitement to this offseason. I think last years off season was a warning of what we were going to see in 07. Kenny had to break his streak of trading for veterans because of our lack luster farm system. I believe our farm system is better than what people give it credit for. I know we don't have those 5 tool major league ready players but who does? Ask the cub's about 5 tool players. Plus how many of these highly touted players make it to the bigs? I remember when Willy Mo Pena was a 5 tool player and now he is irrelevant. That Marte kid that cleveland got from boston... where is he? Was Justin Mornoeu highly touted? I never heard of him until he broke out in the bigs. Sometimes you have to get lucky and find players who can perform at the big league level. Also I am not that impressed with Chris Young... we got one of the games best pitchers for him. we have alot of pitching in the minors which we could trade for better position players down there. I don't think the sox are as bad off as people think.
Supaman that ho!

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you mean the guy who hit .400 in rookie ball
and then OPSed over 1000 in A and AA in the ensuing years? yeah, i'd say he was kinda highly touted.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 1:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How high was he drafted?
I don't know that much about Justin.I never heard of him until like you said he hit the cover off of the ball. Did He made the bigs fairly quickly? I remember one day they had no first baseman next day they had an mvp caliber player.Sometimes you get lucky. Maybe he's not the player we thought he was... maybe Matt Holiday will fall off next year much like JM did this past year. With the crappy drug testing procedures we could stuff Brian Anderson full of hgh to make him the player we thought he could be.    
Supaman that ho!

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

3rd round
but that was largely because he was canadian. probably closer to a first round talent, if only scouts would have watched. and he made the bigs pretty quickly.

at any rate, draft position is somewhat irrelevant past the top ten or so. generally, players shouldn't really be "touted" until they have a couple years in the minors under their belt. that's when you know what you really have.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 1:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right...
It does seem that a lot of these superstars come out of nowhere. Remember when Hawk thought Terrero was the next Vladamir? I wish the sox could bring someone up that could at the very least produce. I am tired of seeing all these other teams bring up young players and they do great. Do you think there is something fundamentally wrong with our player development compared to other teams or do we (the fans)place too many expectations on our kids?
Supaman that ho!

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes
there is something fundamentally wrong with both the player development and, more importantly, player scouting.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 1:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Our scouting did find MB
They have been ok with scouting in my opinion. I guess we could do more psychological testing on our players before we draft them (B.A.) (J.B.). It seems like we get these studs in the farm system and as soon as they come up they have absolutely no confidence. I know some of the guys on here think Ozzie doesn't like to be showed up by rookies but I highly disagree. Bobby Jenks did excellent for us the 2nd half of 05. Josh Fields and Jerry Owens didn't seem to have any problems confidence wise. Granted Jerry is not the most talented guy on the field, I think Ozzie got him to over achieve. I know you guys dont like him but he helped us win some games down the stretch and seemed to be pretty confident in CF. We need Rock back to teach him how to get good jumps now.
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Stop Posting on here
and go practice the Soulja Boy some more...

by BoKnows on Nov 5, 2007 1:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha OK
You're a moron. I will superman your wife.
Supaman that ho!

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know you're not.....
How did I somehow know that before I even wrote it? "It's good to get married... it lets people know your not gay." - Departed
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 1:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Keith
If you dont like me dont read anything I write. Ignore me. I usually ignore you.
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 2:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well
you responded to a post further in the thread, so apparently you don't ignore me.  Good effort, though.

That's fine.  Your 8th grade rhetoric won't last too long, I'm confident in that.

by CWSKeith on Nov 5, 2007 8:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

8th grade rhetoric???
Hah! Do you want to have a spelling bee challenge??? Or we can have a read-a-thon with a comprehension test right after. GET pwned! P.S. If you ever get a reply from me, it's probably telling you that your full of *hit.
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 6, 2007 3:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Payroll
I hope it's wrong but I read the payroll for 2008 will be $105 million. This would be a crime with the money they bring in on MLB.com and future money for the new MLB channel on directv.

by cachhubguy on Nov 5, 2007 12:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

if that's the case
They're in a load of trouble.

Add Uribe and Crede to the current obligations, and you're at 100M, leaving you 5M to improve the team. Two starters would have to be traded in order to have the funds to overhaul the lineup, meaning the rotation would be Buehrle, one of Contreras/Garland/Vazquez, and 3 unrealiable/unpredicable arms from Danks/Floyd/Gio/Egbert/Broadway.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed, they're in a load of trouble
if they pay Uribe $5 million and expect him to actually "produce" rather than half-ass his way through another season.

I heard a sound bite from KW on The Score today and while non-convincingly saying Juan is a "quality player," he also said they are looking to "get better at all positions."

So, perhaps Juan will be packing his bags after all.

"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 5, 2007 12:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

tea leaves
chicken bones. crystal balls. you know, the usual sources.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 12:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Santoria, bro
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 12:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Santeria
Not to be confused with:
  1. Santa Clause
  2. Edgar Renteria
  3. Diarrhea (a.k.a. "Brian Anderson Winter Ball Apple Splatter Two-Step")
"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 5, 2007 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oops
I am standing corrected, 'gater.  Too Catholic for mine own good.
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Catholic as well,
but I enjoy a good voodoo ritual every now and then. Nothing like slaughtering a few chickens to appease the spirit world.
"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 5, 2007 2:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Best way to make the playoffs
Looking at it from Kenny's perspective, I'm pretty sure he sees next season as a year with playoff aspirations.  With that in mind, I'd say the best way to do that would be to improve two areas where the Sox were bad to atrocious in last year, defense and the bullpen.

So with that in mind, I'd revise my plan (I apologize for any redundancy -- this next week-and-a-half before anything goes down is probably my favorite time as a baseball fan, being completely honest).  Keep Crede at third, if only for his defense, and hope the bat could -- at the very least -- return to his career levels of a slightly below average hitter.  Put Fields in LF.  That means you're going to need a strong defender in CF -- Cameron still makes sense, and it allows you to have strong defense for the first 25 games he's out with an Owens + Anderson platoon (or if Anderson is done, just Owens is okay too).  Trading for Crisp would also make sense.  Rowand and Hunter?  Bleh, still too much money and I don't know you can still say Hunter is even average in CF anymore (he's probably right around average but isn't going to get any better with age).

That leaves SS.  You need to upgrade your offense still but defense needs to remain strong at SS.  Furcal still makes sense here, unless his defense has fallen off the table (anyone?).

That leaves your lineup as:

SS Furcal
CF Cameron/Crisp/Owens
DH Thome
1B Konerko
RF Dye
C Pierzynski
3B Crede
LF Fields
2B Richar

Defensively the infield is pretty good.  Fields should be average in left, Dye is a black hole but hopefully the new CFer can make up a bit for that.  The big improvements are having Crede at third for a whole year, Fields' arm in left and the new CFer is probably equal to or better than the people that played center last season (Owens/Erstad).

Now onto the bullpen.  This is tough -- if the Sox have a dynamite bullpen, I'd say that's the BEST way to improve upon their win total from last season, but with the volatility of relievers, it's tough to build a great bullpen.  As I've said many times, Jenks, Wasserman and Logan should have their guaranteed spots -- they're all strong in their roles (closer, ROOGY, LOOGY).  I'd leave one or two spots open for guys free agents or Japanese imports.  I think the latter -- bringing in an Okajima, a Shingo, a Saito -- should be a mandate for the winter.  I also like Jim's idea of bringing back Luis Vizcaino -- he's a solid (if unspectacular) middle reliever.

If that goes through, that leaves you with Jenks, Wasserman, Logan, Vizcaino and Japanese Reliever X.  That leaves two spots that I'm leaving to guys already in the organization -- Thorton, MacDougal, Aardsma, Haeger and Perez strike me as the main contestants although I'm sure I'm leaving out a guy or two.

My apologies for the length.

by CWSKeith on Nov 5, 2007 12:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Keith
I admit I was a little perplexed when I saw that you wanted both damon and furcal... You can take a flier on one of those guys but not both. I like the idea of Fields in LF I think the outfield is easier learn than 3rd base. If we could live with pod's defense during a world series run Fields would be just fine. They should send him to winter ball to work on his LF defense. Im sure HE wouldn't bitch and moan as to why he has to go.
Supaman that ho!

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 1:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I love Jim's smaller deal of...
a reliever like David Aardsma to the Devil Rays for SS Ben Zobrist.  I think that would be a great move.  Zobrist is a hard worker and an OBP machine.  He has been crappy in the majors so far but I think he will pan out.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 1:07 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Do you think...
that the Sox could get Zobrist for Aardsma?  Aardsma doesn't really have any trade value, does he?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 5, 2007 1:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Zobrist's trade value can't be that high...
considering he has done squat in the majors and was benched for Brendan Harris and Josh Wilson.  The Devil Rays are always looking for relievers.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 1:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just thinking...
that a pre-arb position player with some upside (even a fringy one like Zobrist) would be worth more than a reliever like Aardsma.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 5, 2007 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah.
I didn't realise he was that old.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 5, 2007 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"That old" - Thanks
You just made me feel a lot more like an old geezer...which I am...I just don't like to think about it.
"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 5, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we're talking about
two players who did well at the minor league level but haven't really produced at the major league level (at least consistently in the case of aardsma). i wouldn't say either has much trade value at this point, so it's a good match that way. zobrist is certainly expendable for the rays. aardsma and a smaller piece could get it done. it all depends upon what the rays think of aardsma (i'm still confident he can be good enough) and whether they can get someone better for zobrist.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Did someone say richar?
Or was that just a cough?
Supaman that ho!

by Soulja Boy on Nov 5, 2007 1:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And will they
ever change his D-Backs photo on MLB.com Gameday?
"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 5, 2007 1:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Brian Anderson for Bill Hall?
Scott Merkin wrote:
I really don't believe Anderson will be with the White Sox in 2008, and a change of scenery might be good for all involved. Both Anderson and Milwaukee center fielder/shortstop Bill Hall are represented by Terry Bross, so maybe there's the seed for a trade right there.

Does Scott Merkin know something we don't?  I doubt it but it's a nice thought.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 2:25 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

i doubt he's suggesting straight-up
garland + anderson, though...

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 2:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would do that trade.
Garland + Anderson seems much more palatable to me than Garland + De Los Santos.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 5, 2007 2:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or...
anyone + De Los Santos, really.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 5, 2007 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Since Anderson is never going to play for Ozzie...
it's like we are just giving up Garland for Hall.  Anderson is a non-entity with the White Sox.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much.
And he has very little trade value.  He's an interesting throw-in, someone who the Brewers would take a flyer on, as long as they got something else of more value.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 5, 2007 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There are a number of these guys
Masset and Aardsma have no options remaining.

MacDougal is in Ozzie's doghouse as well.

Moving this fringy parts is something that Kenny has excelled at in the past. The Masset/Aardsma trade as well as the possible MacDougal trade could pay surprising dividends.

At this point, however, it would be nearly impossible to speculate for whom they would be traded.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 2:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

macdougal
wouldn't that be selling very very low?

I don't see how he can get any worse,
but he can easily improve, no?

by The Wizard on Nov 5, 2007 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

for the last time
no one ever suggested garland + DLS for hall. unless it was the brewers' equivalent of paul from las vegas.

by larry on Nov 5, 2007 2:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Right.
I forgot, it was Crede + de los Santos for Hall, which I wouldn't do, either.  I would do Garland + Anderson, though.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 5, 2007 2:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Done and done!
Addition by subtraction (sorry, BA, or shall we call you RA?) and filling a gaping hole.  

Plus, all the West Coast 'tude gone in 60 seconds.  Much grindier team and more soulful.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and paul from las vegas is back!
How about this scenario: Jon Garland for Hunter Pence ...
-- Jeremy, Sugar Grove, Ill.

by The Wizard on Nov 5, 2007 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BWAHAHAHA!
Jeremy spoke in class today.....
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 5, 2007 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

here's some stuff
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20071105_Theres_a_lot_to_discuss_at_general_managers_me eting.html
"We're looking for pitching. Starting, setup or relief," Gillick said.

Of course, most teams are looking for the same thing. As Diamondbacks general manager Josh Byrnes said recently, "It is prudent that we try to get as much pitching as we can. We have to plan as if you can never have enough pitching."

One of the few teams with starting pitching available is the White Sox. They're believed to be trying to move Jose Contreras, but probably would be willing to trade Jon Garland (1 year left on his contract at $12 million) instead.

Since Gillick came to Philadelphia, he's been able to deal with Chicago counterpart Kenny Williams. The two engineered the Jim Thome-Aaron Rowand trade 2 years ago, the Freddy Garcia-Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez swap last December, and the Tadahito Iguchi-Michael Dubee deal last July.

However, it's believed that the Sox would want a shortstop, an outfielder and/or setup relief for Garland. It remains to be seen if the Phillies are compatible.

[...]

The environment should become a little clearer in the next few days. For example, if the Phillies are interested in testing the market for Pat Burrell, they will pay close attention to teams that might be interested in Seattle's Richie Sexson. Both are righthanded power hitters with 1 year, at $14 million, left on their contracts.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 2:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nice of him to
still talk to Kenny after he stuck him with Freddy Garcia. Bwaahaa!
"I give Ozzie an 'A'... This team has never packed it in and I give Ozzie the credit." - Jerry Reinsdorf

by tailgater on Nov 5, 2007 3:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and
news journal:
There will be pitchers available via trades. The White Sox are dangling Jon Garland, who is signed for one more year at $12 million and was scouted by the Phillies in September. Dontrelle Willis and Johan Santana would require more sizable returns, and the Phillies don't have much to trade. If the Phillies re-sign Rowand, they can deal an outfielder, likely Shane Victorino. But they don't have major league-ready talent in their farm system, and they're reluctant to move pitching prospects Carlos Carrasco, Josh Outman, Andrew Carpenter or Joe Savery or top second-base prospect Adrian Cardenas. "We have to try to be creative with regard to acquiring players," assistant GM Ruben Amaro Jr. said. "You have to keep your mind open."

by The Wizard on Nov 5, 2007 5:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Damon? Why not Jenkins in LF?
Baseball Analysts:

Make me a General Manager and so long as I could use a left-handed stick with a steady corner outfield glove, I probably would not hesitate to offer Jenkins a two-year deal in the $12 million range or so.

And they back up the thought here:

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2007/11/know_your_free.php

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Nov 5, 2007 3:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

This was the same thinking...
on the Trot Nixon signing by the Indians last offseason.  It's either hit (Dye) or miss (Nixon).  Usually, it's dependent on whether the old man can stay healthy.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 3:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cheats Plan
Ok Cheat, all thought out and well presented. But...I think it is Konerko who shuld go to clear up salary. PK plus Garland or Jose C. Let Fields try first base.

Over all I like some of the ideas and the over all philosophy of geting better from within. However, some organizational changes aside, Does the White Sox track record of drafting offer much hope in that area? I say no. How many fireballing 20 year olds can we stock pile?

Mike Cameron?  If you loved Juan Uribies BA wait til you see this guy. 35 year old center fielders that hit .240 aren't worth much.

I still can't believe we gave Dye all that money. But we can not be a team that needs 4 singles to score a run. Must get faster.

Williams has always liked Miquel Tejada at short
we'll see if he chases him down. At todays maeket prices he's a bargain. Of course can he play in the post steroid era?? Any way let him play short, sign a CF, Hunter or Rowand, let Owens and Sweeny fight it out for LF. And, last, keep Crede, esp if he shows he can run alittle bit. He plays defense and offense, isn't that what we want?

by spadog on Nov 5, 2007 7:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I forgot
I wouldn't offer all the mustard in New York for Damon. Past his prime and expensive. Jenkins is just hurt too much. And please don't tell me Herm Schneider would take care of that.

by spadog on Nov 5, 2007 7:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Cheat's Lineup...
This isn't really important but I'm just curious how you would arrange your lineup.  Like this?

SS  Furcal
CF  Cameron
DH  Thome
1B  Konerko
LF  Burrell
RF  Dye
C   Pierzynski
3B  Fields
2B  Richar / Uribe

I think that's how Ozzie would make the lineup.

That's a pretty good offensive and defensive lineup and it definitely meets your short-term contracts goal.

by SSH2005 on Nov 5, 2007 7:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

damn
If you guys need to continue your pissing match start again at the bottom. You messed up my screen. I gotta scroll now. Pain in my ass.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 5, 2007 11:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Lotta testosterone - or is it estrogen? -
flowing on this site.  You guys have money on these musings?  I pick Pete over larry, because I don't think Pete quits until everyone is dead (larry is the death of a thousand cuts, but you might crawl away), and Soulja boy over Keith, because I think Soulja has no conscience and Keith is still in college learning to lose his.

Anyway, that's my handicapping of the fight card.

Round II today!

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 6, 2007 5:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow! I didn't expect such a heated Owens/Damon...
debate ! But, I just want to add that I'm hoping that Owens is the Sox 4th OFer next year. It's not that I'm so high on Jerry Owens although I think it's possible that he could develop into a pretty good leadoff hitter/center fielder/stolen base king one day.

But, primarily, I'm very much against trading for Damon. That is a HUGE waste of money and resources. He's been overrated most of his career  and now his skills have clearly declined. Now, he's nothing special at all and not worth trading for or a salary greater than $ 5 mil. at the most.

But, the point is, why trade for a couple of his last decent seasons anyway ? So, the Sox can finish 3rd or 4th in the AL Central and we can read headlines about Jesus growing his beard back or his stripper wife ?

The Sox aren't going to win anything next year so why add even more expensive aging veterans to this team ? It doesn't make any sense.

by White Sox Randy on Nov 6, 2007 9:51 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

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