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11 Free Agents Named in Mitchell Probe

[Boston Globe]

Player agents who attended yesterday's union meeting in New York were told that 11 current free agent players are named in the George Mitchell report on the use of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball, which could come out sometime around the first of the year, and that all 11 players have been notified by the commissioner's office. Two agents who were there confirmed this today.
Is it wrong for me to hope that Hunter and/or Rowand are included?
*****
And in other news, (wiz)

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You won't like this article then, Cheat...
"Hunter, White Sox share mutual interest
Free agent outfielder to meet with GM on Sunday"

I know it's mostly fluff and that Hunter has said that he would love to play for every team in the MLB, but a 5-year, $15 million dollar contract might get it done if the Sox add a sixth year team option with a decent buyout.

by SSH2005 on Nov 8, 2007 8:23 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is Hunter really that bad?
I know what the Twins blogger said, but I don't think he's as bad as myself and others are making him out to be.  Mind you I'm not saying he's a star, but he's still an average defensive centerfielder (perhaps a little bit better when healthy) who's posted two pretty good offensive years in a row (OPS+' of 112 and 122).  I think a bhoov breakdown is in order (I'd do one myself if I didn't have an Accounting test tomorrow.  Okay, so I probably wouldn't do one even if I didn't have the test).

I also didn't realize how much of a pitcher's park the HHH Metradome has played at.  BB-ref has it at a park-factor of 96 for the past three years.

by CWSKeith on Nov 8, 2007 8:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no he's not bad
the problem is that he is bad in three years. and you're signing him for five.

by larry on Nov 8, 2007 8:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's the big reason....
But there's also the nagging fear, for me, that Hunter in CF means Owens or Shannon Stewart in LF. And also then Fields in AAA.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 8, 2007 8:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Stewart could magically repeat his 2007 season
in 2008, he would be far from the worst option in LF and as a leadoff man.  I'm sure Kenny could do worse, considering he already has (Podthetic, Erstad, Owens).  Obviously, I would first aim higher for a LF option.

The main problem I have with giving Torii Hunter that kind of deal is that I would rather give it to Andruw Jones.  He is younger and a better hitter.  I don't care about one flukishly awful season for Jones and a flukishly great season for Hunter.  Jones >>> Hunter.

by SSH2005 on Nov 8, 2007 9:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

definitely.. I see your point,
but I think they'll trade crede and get something of value for him.. probably as part of a package. Garland plus crede for someone with plus obp (I would hope).

Fields is in the majors in 2008 for sure.. He showed a ton of power and somewhat athletic who has shown some ability to adjust and improve in the second half..
Im not opposed to owens winning the spot in spring training with improvement.. He's shown decent numbers in the minors when healthy, I think you may be able to squeeze lance johnson type numbers from this guy for a few years.. so long as he's cheap, I dont mind him and hunter out there in center. They'll just be looking for a center fielder in a couple of years anyway with whomever they would sign...

It's all about the SOX baby! www.myspace.com/eternalkonflict

by Eternalkonflict on Nov 8, 2007 9:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There is NO WAY,
(Repeat emphatically) NO WAY that Josh Fields is in AAA (or on the bench) to start 2008.

by ballyb on Nov 9, 2007 8:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You actually beleive Williams????
When he says Fields will go back down to AAA? Wow.

by Tony82087 on Nov 9, 2007 8:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know this is a running joke...
but honestly, you could blame Anderson for a few things.  Making the Vazquez trade look worse than it is, having to see Jerry Owens roam CF, and spending a ton of dough on an aging CF'er (in the near future).

by SSH2005 on Nov 8, 2007 9:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He really was pivotal
If he was solidly in CF now, we could move JD to LF (where he belongs now anyway) and sign Fukudome for RF for less than $10mm.  Instead they have to buy a CF for $15mm/yr, and then you still have a ? in LF if you trade Crede.
"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 9, 2007 6:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What
was so bad about the Vazquez trade? There is no pitching in the national league! Why do you think Young is the next Micky Mantle??? What the hell would Young do against A.L. pitching? Nothing.
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 10, 2007 2:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Use your brain...
Kenny was banking on Brian Anderson being a productive major league center fielder.  This is why he traded the more highly touted Chris Young for Javier Vazquez.  The trade would have looked way better right now if Anderson was patrolling CF for us.  What is so hard to understand about that?

by SSH2005 on Nov 10, 2007 8:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The question is
Would Ozzie have been different with Young? He would have been in the same situation as Brian last year - and if not last year, were would he have been situated over Owens...
The fact is he is gone - went to a team that put him out there and left him out there to learn and adjust - I just don't believe that would have happened on the Sox. Remember, we are in a win now mode and our core just needs a little assistance to get back to the top. (Sorry, just tired of hearing about Young)

by Brush Back on Nov 10, 2007 9:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So...
I guess the trade was BA's idea?  Come on, now.  You could say that it was Kenny's fault for trading Chris Young, and you can blame it on the scouts if you wish.  But Brian Anderson himself?  Prob. not.

Just sayin'.

by joeforthree on Nov 11, 2007 9:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It was a joke...
you know...sort of. I wish Anderson had panned out. It would have saved the Sox from what seems likely to be a bad signing this winter.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 11, 2007 9:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I realize that..
on your part.  But some people take it too seriously.  ;)

by joeforthree on Nov 11, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

re
But some people take it too seriously.  ;)

like me! [who just realized BA was blamed]

by The Wizard on Nov 11, 2007 9:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

really?
hmmm, he outplayed erstad in ST, nevertheless ozzie benched him

no matter what BA had done, ozzie would've benched him...

by The Wizard on Nov 11, 2007 9:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BA anagram:
A Brand Risen... No
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Nov 9, 2007 10:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The obvious offseason...
1.)  We will sign a free agent CF'er.  This is looking more and more like a lock.  It's looking like Torii Hunter because he is apparently Kenny's man-love.  I would rather have Andruw Jones but what are ya gonna do?  Beggars can't be choosers.

2.)  Garland must be traded.  I don't know what to expect in return but Garland is not worth the contract he will be expecting.  The value he could return in a trade is worth more than a year of his flaky ass.

3.)  Kenny either has to keep Crede at 3B and stick Fields in LF or trade Crede and acquire a LF'er.  I would prefer the latter since getting something for Crede is better than watching him put up another .750 OPS season and/or go down with a bad back again.

4.)  Kenny needs to sign one or two relievers.  Kenny is on the right track going the Japanese route.  They will be cheap and could be real boom value players (see Okajima).

5.)  We needed an upgrade at SS but Kenny decided to go with the status quo.  He didn't have too many options but the Tigers were able to make something happen.  Because of the lack of an upgrade at SS, upgrading LF as well as CF is pretty much mandatory now.

Thankfully, Kenny failed at the least important offseason need.  He can still redeem himself with big upgrades to CF and LF though.  We shall see what happens...

by SSH2005 on Nov 8, 2007 9:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

My hope
is that Kenny misses out on both Rowand and Hunter while Boras is busy trying to convince teams to pony up for A-Rod leaving Jones hanging in the wind.

I can envision Boras holding Jones until towards the end of the free agent period, saying he's only going to talk to team willing to go $6/125. When no market materializes, he works out a mutually beneficial deal that gives Jones an incentive-laden deal that allows him to opt out after, say, 2 or 3 years. Maybe a deal that guarantees him the ability to make 5/75, but also gives hit the possibility to make 3/60 and walk away -- a JD Drew special.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 8, 2007 9:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

CF
My hope is that Kenny trades a pitcher to the Mets and gets Lastings.

by The Wizard on Nov 8, 2007 9:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

according to club sources
he'd have to be "particularly high" to make that trade
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 8, 2007 9:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

*PUKES*
We already have Lastings... His name is Ryan Sweeney. Again why do you want to trade for a player that couldn't hit national league pitching???
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 10, 2007 2:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I must have missed where Ryan Sweeney...
posted a .272/.341/.446/.787 line in the majors.  Sweeney couldn't even post that line at Charlotte last year.

by SSH2005 on Nov 10, 2007 8:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trust me
The Met's are not happy with where he is right now. Neither am I. Why else would he be on the block? If I am not mistaken he got sent down towards the end of the year. Conformation on that? I would much rather see Crawford or Reyes as trade options.
If you die with your eyes open you deserved it.

by Soulja Boy on Nov 10, 2007 9:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

damon not a fan of chicago
"Besides the fact that the Damon-for-Joe Crede trade never made sense, Damon has a no-trade to the White Sox."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/11/08/scoop.thursday/1.html

by larry on Nov 8, 2007 10:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

First annual meeting of the MLB Liars Club
I loved this article in the Sun Times, GM MEETINGS | New format enables discussion.  Boy, I can just imagine the BS, you'd need to put on hip boots before you walk into this conference room:

"Hi, my name is Kenny Williams.  I really, really like my club as is right now.  I mean, I love these guys from 2005 so much I've been handing out extensions like candy.  I don't need anything..really.  But if you totally blow me away with an offer, I might consider trading let's say Crede or Contreras or Garland or Uribe or Konerko or just about anyone on my roster for just about anything."

"We've missed a little bit of that grind and edge and we've got to get that back." - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Nov 9, 2007 9:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is this new, or was I asleep
when it became "decided" that Fields was NOT allowed to play LF next year?

"With Josh Fields waiting in the wings and no longer considered a possibility in left field, Williams seems ready to make a decision.

''Something is going to have to give, one way or the other,'' he told reporters Wednesday in Orlando, Fla. ''Either via trade or if we bring them both to spring training.

''If Joe ends up winning the job, then Josh may have to go back to Triple-A. And I don't know about that after what he came up and accomplished, if that is a very fair, realistic or beneficial thing for the organization -- short-term and long- term -- to do.''

I know it's Cowley, but still...
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/642972,CST-SPT-sox09.article

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Nov 9, 2007 10:09 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This quote --
"And I don't know about that after what he came up and accomplished, if that is a very fair, realistic or beneficial thing for the organization -- short-term and long- term -- to do.'' -- gives me a relative amount of confidence that Fields won't see AAA next season.  Williams isn't stupid -- he's not going to send a guy who currently projects to be the fourth best hitter on the roster back to AAA.

So I apologize to anyone who read my rant the other day saying how pissed I'd be if Fields was sent to Charlotte.

by CWSKeith on Nov 9, 2007 11:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Keith, my real question is:
Why is LF ruled out for Josh?
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Nov 9, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure
but I can give my best guesses.
  • His value at third is greater than his value in LF -- even if his glove remains below average.
  • They're optimistic that Fields wasn't as bad with the glove -- or that he can improve -- as he showed this past season.
  • They're not quite ready to give up on him yet (at third), even if he may never get any better.  You can always move him to left-field in a year or two, but if you move him off of third-base for a whole season, that's a lot of development time lost for a 24 (25?) year old.
At this point I'd be very surprised if Crede was with the Sox next season.  Even with Crede's injuries woes, he still looks like he'd be an upgrade at a couple of places (Philly, maybe Houston).

by CWSKeith on Nov 9, 2007 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

even if his glove remains below average.
  1. I'm not sure that's true.
  2. Also he's got a cannon of an arm. If he can adjust to the outfield, put him in right field.

by ballyb on Nov 9, 2007 12:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's all talk
who knows if it reflects their thinking or not. i'm sure we could come up with all sorts of reasons for it, probably revolving largely around trade posturing or free agent posturing.

frankly, playing him at third makes the most sense. left fielders are easy to find. 3B, not so much (though we sorta have two, both with questions, of course). if, for whatever reason, crede is still here come april, there is no question that fields will be playing left (or somewhere). the whole fields in AAA is utter rubbish and everyone knows it.

i think the most obvious conclusion to draw from this talk (if you like drawing conclusions from november blusterings) is that a CF will be signed, owens or sweeney or some stopgap will be in left, crede will be traded or non-tendered, and fields will play third.

by larry on Nov 9, 2007 11:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's "The Plan"
I think "The Plan" is a free agent CF (Hunter or Rowand), but neither of those guys can be the leadoff hitter for Ozzie. So LF is once again the official position of the leadoff hitter. I'm guessing that's Owens. In fact, I'd be shocked if it wasn't given the amount of money the Sox will pour into CF.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 9, 2007 11:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Dad will spring for a new
1 and 2 hole for the Kid to play with.
Yech.
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Nov 9, 2007 10:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

After reading "Bend It..."
I realize I don't know dookie about the finer physical points of baseball.  Jesus, I used to be a 99th-percentile math person and I am contunually amazed at the metrics you guys have come up with to continue to analyze what previously was relativley unexplainable.

Which is why Joe Torre is writing a book, due for publishing.  I believe he says the purpose of the book is to discuss how much these metrics have changed the game of baseball forever, and why there will never again be a dynasty like the Yankees.

I can't wait.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 11:02 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The only Math really worth knowing,
excepting engineers, is Statistics.

by ballyb on Nov 9, 2007 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another Hot stove Item from Gammons
The White Sox tried to interest Houston in a Ryan Sweeney-Chad Qualls deal before the 'Stros got Michael Bourn.

by indianguy30 on Nov 9, 2007 11:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Damn
that's selling really low on Sweeney.  Seriously -- as little as a year-and-a-half ago everybody (in the organization, not necessarily here) was touting Sweeney as the next Garret Anderson and now we're trying to peddle him off when his value is lowest for a reliever?  Those are the trades that can absolutely kill a franchise.

by CWSKeith on Nov 9, 2007 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What has Sweeney really shown so far?
The answer is not much.  No power, mediocre OBP, he isn't even hitting for average.  The only thing that he has shown so far is a sexy swing and that he can play a decent CF defensively.  Otherwise, he isn't any better than a myriad of OF prospects on other teams.  I'm not saying that I would make a Sweeney for Qualls trade but Sweeney has to start putting up the numbers instead of simply living off of his own hype.

by SSH2005 on Nov 9, 2007 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Has KW jumped the shark?
I don't even like Sweeney as a prospect that much, but trading their best OF prospect for a reliever?

I think the Sox front office philosophy has officially moved beyond my comprehension.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 9, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's at least
base our criticism of KW on trades that actually happen as opposed to wild rumors from notoriously bad sources (Gammons has reported more false rumors than anybody).

by bhoov on Nov 9, 2007 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When was the last time Gammons was right?
Seriously, in the roughly 6 years that I paid attention to Gammons (99-04?), I cannot remember him being correct on any of his rumors and supposed deals.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Nov 9, 2007 12:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not sure this is so bad
i wouldn't make that deal knowing what i know about him and how i'd like the franchise to be run over the next few years. but sweeney is looking more and more like a 4th outfielder. and qualls is under control until 2011. it obviously depends upon what you think of sweeney - and, from the rankings people are giving him (and gave him in the past) on here, it's clear he's a favorite of SSS posters. i don't know if i'm such a fan anymore. this could be selling low on him. of course, if he keeps playing next year the way he played this year, "low" will be "released."

by larry on Nov 9, 2007 12:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, it could be good
Obviously, any trade is good or bad depending on the specific players -- maybe Sweeney is a bust and Qualls a cheap lock-down set up man.

It's just if Sweeney has any value left and the Sox want to move him I'd rather see him traded for another prospect or part of a package for a position player. It seems like trading a prospect for a reliever is inefficient.

I do agree that Sweeney hasn't done much more than be young and mediocre in the minors.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 9, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

packaging him is fine
a jeremy reed style deal is probably good at this point. but i don't think you get another prospect of any worth for him. seriously, he's given no indication to anyone that he's worth more than a pretty good set-up man. after another year like the last couple, he's basically joe borchard and then worth a failed reliever like thornton. he looks like another scouting and development fuck-up.

by larry on Nov 9, 2007 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on, Larry.
Tell us what you REALLY think of Sweeney.

by ballyb on Nov 9, 2007 12:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's only the best OF propsect
because Kenny traded Cunningham for a formerly well regarded toolsy 2B
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 9, 2007 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Formerly well-regarded?
I got the impression that Richar only recently emerged as a prospect. And I thought Richar did OK in the bigs (although his glove was disappointing).

Anyway, I like the strategy of trading an OF prospect for a middle-infield prospect much better than trading for a reliever. Even if that was't a good trade based on the specific players.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 9, 2007 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he was quite highly regarded
in the dback system a few years ago. they thought he was their SS of the future. and then he repeated high A three times and sort of fell off that pedestal.

by larry on Nov 9, 2007 12:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Richar
I wonder if there's going to be another large difference between projection systems in Richar.  I was very surprised when Larry posted Richar's 2008 projection -- wasn't it something like .270/.330/.440?  That's very good -- he'd basically be a league average hitter and although that OBP isn't great, I wouldn't mind him leading off as he'll be in scoring position a little more because of the .170 IsO.  

I'm cautiously optimistic that Williams has found something in Richar.  As a 20 and 21 year old in high-A he held his own but at the same time didn't improve.  His third year there -- as a 22 year old, so not terribly old for the league -- he put up a .885 OPS.  He followed that up with a decent year in AA, although he lost a lot of power that year (injury?).  And obviously last season, he had his best year as a pro -- I didn't realize just how much he killed the ball at Charlotte (albeit in 133 at-bats, posting a .346/.400/.556 line.

Maybe Richar doesn't become Robinson Cano but at the very least, I think we've found a player who can give us average production for a second baseman for a good number of years.  

by CWSKeith on Nov 9, 2007 1:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All of the James projections
are available on the player pages at Fangraphs.com
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 9, 2007 2:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yup.
If folks got down on BA because of his performance in '06 how can you talk up Sweeney after his call-up performance in '07?  He started out great, pitchers figured him out, and he was sent down after he had every (and I mean every) opportunity to stay in the lineup because he sucked HARD - it was embarassing to watch how overmatched he was.

And don't tell me it was all the wrist injury - he looked like hell before he was injured.  So why the love affair?  At least Josh "Killing" Fields has power and USED IT enough to be given a legit shot to start in '08.  Sweeney seems to be an even bigger ? than BA, and his attitude (as evidenced by his quote a week or tow ago) doesn't sound that much different than BA's.

Sweeney - no affection here.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 1:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
I had hope for him when he initially came up - once word got out he has trouble with select pitches, he went down hill. Look at his current AFL numbers, they are not impressive. Unless he starts to turn it around I can't even see him as a 4th outfielder.

by Brush Back on Nov 9, 2007 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Holy Hyperbole, Batman!
Sweeney played in a total of 15 major league games this season. After 9 games (all starts) he was hitting .276/.364/.483. That doesn't say overmatched to me. And yet, He started only 4 more games, plus a couple of late-inning pinch hit opportunities, closing 1-for-16 in his final 6 games.

If that's the definition of "every (and I mean every) opportunity," what the heck did Scott Podsednik get? What about Erstad? After 16 games, he was hitting .169/.231/.220. Jerry Owens, who held a .172/.226/.207 line after 18 games, went a modern (last 50 years) White Sox record for an outfielder in between extra-base hits during which he hit .229/.283/.229.

Let's try to put Sweeney's overmatchedness (it's a word, dammit!) into a more accurate perspective. Through a similar number of at-bats last year, Anderson was hitting .146/.234/.195...

You're talking about 4 games, plus 2 pinch hit appearances. I think you're overreacting just a tad.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 9, 2007 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
i'm not basing my lukewarm attitude towards sweeney on 49 major league PAs. i'm basing it on what he did in the minors, where it seems like he took a pretty significant step back (and has continued it in the AFL). he really has to develop that power for which we've all been waiting/hoping to appear. and it's looking more and more like he won't. i'm not willing to give up on him yet. if all he's worth is a set-up man right now it's certainly worth holding onto him to see if he improves enough. i don't consider a set-up man a big opppirtunity lost and a cheap, decent fringy 3rd outfielder - which is what his upside is beginning to look like - is worth another year of wait and see.

by larry on Nov 9, 2007 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

larry, as usual, is a bit more eloquent
than me.  I should've said that he DID have every opportunity to stick and did not, regardless of how many games he played.  Pods/Erstad were injured, and Owens was still not being utilized as much as the end of the year (he was one of the only healthy guys who could run), so I think the big boys saw that he was not the answer.  And as larry said, Sweeney continued to tank in the minors when ANY sign of a recovery would've brought him north (IMO - we were scratching for guys for awhile, and he wasn't it).  

I agree with you, Cheat, that the limited cup of coffee should hang him for good, but I don't like how he acted when adversity visited his doorstep -I would like to have seen hunger when he was sent down instead of a continual exhibition of poor performance.  Not confidence-inspiring to me.

Sure, give him a shot in ST, but I disagree with the folks who have him our 2nd-4th best prospect.  I truly hope I am talking out my ass and encourage you to remind me when he is competing for the '08 ROY title.  I just don't see it right now.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 3:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So when are you guys going to put
your Sweeney rating up for all to see?

by bhoov on Nov 9, 2007 3:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if by you guys
you mean me and by rating you mean my top 11 prospects, i hope to do it this weekend. i'm a perfectionist and i need to delve into the numbers to get the bottom half right.

by larry on Nov 9, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And I'm an asshat when it comes
to rating people I have not seen.  I am just commenting on the folks I've seen in the Show - have no clue about the rest and don't delve into the draft/minors with nearly the depth of you who are well informed.

So I'd be even more of an asshat than usual.  Pass.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If I read your post
correctly, WU, I think what you were referring to in Sweeney's chances was based on the scenario surrounding him. If ever there was a chance to play outfield for the White Sox, it was 2007. I mean, they were an injury away from 'wanna play left field?' night.

I'd like to have hope for Sweeney, but he's doing nearly everything to dash said hopes. He's getting too old and spending too many seasons in AAA to keep hearing the 'we're waiting for him to develop [   ]' line. When he went back down to Charlotte last season, it seems like he faded away. And now with his current performance, it's hard to be optimistic about what the Sox can get from/for him. I hope to hell that I'm wrong, but Sweeney, to me, is a guy with a lot to prove, and not a lot of time to do it.

by HulkSmash on Nov 9, 2007 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure about the clock ticking
thing because guys like Jack Cust get stuck in the minors for a long while and, when finally given a decent shot, make the most of it older than most guys.  My concern is that he did not seize the moment when you could drive a truck through the holes in our lineup (i.e. the whole '07 season).  Even Jerry Freakin' Owens made the most of his shot (bastardthat he is, prolonging the pain), but Sweeney, he of the nice swing and perfect baseball name, didn't necesarily flame out - he was not even average, and continued/continues to perform below average at every new opportunity.

Thus, IMO, I don't expect much.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 3:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree
with those putting him 2-4 on the list as well. I was going to say something in that thread, but I didn't want to pollute it with my own opinion (since I'm aware that my opinion could sway that of the community in general, and want a true representation of the community instead of my own)

I also disagree with Hitless, who listed Sweeney 10th with a guy like Gerst and Martinez well ahead of him. (now it may be a relative toss up in his mind, but he was making a statement by putting those names ahead of Sweeney)

I don't think Sweeney took a big step back this year. Stagnated, yes, but he was showing improvement in his batting eye, while maintaining his passable power (until that late July slump, and early August DL trip). That stagnation moves him down to 5-7, but he's still a more advanced prospect with more likelihood of making an impact at the bigs than say John Shelby.

I wouldn't really be letting him compete for a job with the big club either. He hasn't earned it. And if there's not significant improvement in Charlotte this year, he becomes another cautionary
tale in the stats vs. scouts debate.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 9, 2007 3:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I
can't help but feel similarly about Sweeney. Rationally, however, I don't think we can give up until he gets another full year of at-bats, be it at AAA or a combo AAA/majors. He's just too young to call him a bust. I still think there's a 1 in 3 chance he'll be what most of us thought he might be....like 280/350/450 for a number of years and capable of playing centerfield at times.

by dantesox on Nov 9, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not that it matters, but
I'm already second-guessing putting Gerst on the list at all & I think I should have flip-fopped Sweeney and Martinez. Honestly I haven't had time to look at anyone's numbers below AA and so I'm mostly going by what I've read here & elsewhere. At least I truthfully labeled my list as being uninformed...

I'm pretty pessimistic about Sweeney just because he's never excelled at any level. But I certainly don't think the Sox should give up on him at all. In fact, given the Sox outfield (right now ? ? and an injury-prone Dye) I would expect the Sox will need to call up an OF from AAA this season. If he's in the organization, I would expect Sweeney to get significant big-league at-bats in 2008.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 9, 2007 4:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It'll work out in the end.
In general, I think assigning a number to a prospect is a stupid thing to do. 4 is better than 6, but what does that tell us?

I do, however, believe in the wisdom of (some) crowds. And a list based on the cumulative averages of our select group has produced a couple of fine lists. No reason to mess with success.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 9, 2007 4:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

PS
"since I'm aware that my opinion could sway that of the community in general"

Man, a guy goes 3-0 with a 72-90 club and he's all about hisself...

;)

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nah
I was full of myself before the hot start...

I've done the same thing the last two years... The biggest disagreement in our past two lists was probably Valido, and the crowd here got that one way more right than I did.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Nov 9, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

*should NOT hang him for good*
Can't type.
2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said.
Also of note is Sweeney's wrist injury.  I say this all the time, but wrist injuries linger for up to a year and his was relatively recent.  We're not going to start knowing things for sure until June/July, imo.  The bare fact of him being definitely healthy has to help his trade value and it may prove that he's worth holding onto.  That rumor really surprises/disappoints me.
OK, bring on the Craigslist chick! Bathe her and bring her to my tent! And keep the Valtrex coming!

by colintj on Nov 9, 2007 7:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Torri Hunter & Aaron Rowand
SI guesses at FA contracts

Hunter gets 6 years $90M
Rowand 4 years $56M

I know which one I'd take at those prices.

by hitlesswonder on Nov 9, 2007 11:44 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

yea
torii hunter

by Jbasic89 on Nov 9, 2007 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So do I
Jones at 5/$80M.

His defense is better than Rowand's, and his peripherals are far more promising.  Put him at a launching pad like Comiskey in a pro-hitter division like the AL Central and I bet he puts up a .260/.360/.580 line -- and that's assuming he did permanently lose some bat speed last year.  Otherwise, there are a lot of long flyballs at Turner Field, RFK and Shea that end up three rows deep in Chicago or KC or Cleveland, and a .285/.380/.620 line isn't out of the question.

by BridgeportJoe on Nov 9, 2007 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In fact...
Looking at Jones's numbers last year, I kind of agree with Cheat -- I think he will be amenable to take a deal in a hitters' park that guarantees him 5 years at OK money (say $75M or so), provided that there is an opt-out after 2-3 years.  So if he has a monster 2008-09 (say in the .285/.380/.600 neighborhood), he can sign a 5 year deal after that to take him through retirement.

by BridgeportJoe on Nov 9, 2007 1:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

common kenny
[ken.davidoff@newsday.com]:
The Mets departed the general managers' meetings yesterday cautiously optimistic that they'll have a chance to pursue their greatest offseason desire.

No, not Alex Rodriguez. A frontline starting pitcher.

"I think there's potential out there," general manager Omar Minaya said of the availability of top starting pitchers.

offer a pitcher ang get lastings

btw, how many more years is milledge under club control? 4 or 5?
I see 185 PAs in 2006 and 208 PAs in 2007 in the majors

by The Wizard on Nov 9, 2007 1:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

// counts fingers
2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 5
5 more years!

common oscar!

by The Wizard on Nov 9, 2007 1:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wiz, you got me
WTF is common oscar other than a fish?  And how does it relate?

Tutor me, por favor.

2010 - the waiting is the hardest part.

by winningugly on Nov 9, 2007 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my mistake
replace oscar with omar [minaya]...

by The Wizard on Nov 9, 2007 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is common oscar
better deep fried in beer batter or baked?

by ballyb on Nov 9, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Stone's Blog - take on some AFL players
Here's Steve's take on the AFL

LINK

Take it for how you value Steve's opinion

by Brush Back on Nov 9, 2007 2:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Funny.
He obviously dictated his thoughts and a person who doesn't understand  baseball typed and posted to blog.

by ballyb on Nov 9, 2007 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No kidding
Egbert walked 7 in 10 in the 3rd innings? That is a serious problem! How many 3rd innings are they playing in that league?

by JasonC23 on Nov 9, 2007 3:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I can confirm
that Stone attended at least one AFL game. I saw him there last Saturday during the Desert Dogs/Javelinas game. For anyone who hasn't made it to an AFL game ("and judging by the attendance you haven't"), I'd highly recommend it. Perfect weather, $5 tickets, and about 200 people/scouts at the game.

by BustedFlush on Nov 9, 2007 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bartolo
17. Bartolo Colon- White Sox. Injury issues are a problem, but Chicago needs some help for the rotation. Look out in Seattle for him too.

From the top 50 FA's link

Does anybody think this will happen?

by tbone328 on Nov 9, 2007 11:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I
advocated to take a flyer on him or Freddy. I really would like to see us pick up one of these kind of guys. Matt Clement is another I'd consider. Low risk, potential high reward presuming you're signing them to a 1 or 2 year, incentive-laden or low base salary contract.

by dantesox on Nov 10, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Notice
Egbert's start today....good to see everything we need to see from him was there today....good strike/ball ratio, good gb/fb ratio....come on Jack, be this year's surprise rookie.

by dantesox on Nov 10, 2007 3:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see it
in the pitching dept. we have some in-house options

by The Wizard on Nov 10, 2007 4:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chicago has one quality team
and that's the Hawks.  Everybody that has the chance should check out the Hawks tomorrow night vs Detroit, home game in high-def.  Can't wait.

by CWSKeith on Nov 10, 2007 10:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Biggest Rosenthal cock-tease ever...
"Guillen-Cabrera reunion a possibility"
The White Sox will be outbid for Miguel Cabrera if a prospect-rich team such as the Angels or Dodgers is willing to meet the Marlins' price.

Still, the Sox are in the mix for Cabrera, according to major-league sources, with the intent of playing him in left field.

And, considering general manager Ken Williams' history of bold risk-taking, the team stands at least a puncher's chance of completing a trade.

For the White Sox to acquire Cabrera, they probably would need the Red Sox to re-sign third baseman Mike Lowell, the Angels to balk at moving second baseman Howie Kendrick and the Dodgers and Yankees to focus on pitching instead.

In the admittedly unlikely event that all of that took place, the White Sox then would need the Marlins to accept a package of, say, left-hander Gio Gonzalez, third baseman Josh Fields and center fielder Jerry Owens.

Such an offer probably would be too light, but perhaps the Sox could acquire additional prospects for right-hander Jon Garland in another deal. Then again, parting with Garland on top of Gonzalez -- one year after trading Brandon McCarthy -- might not be such a good idea.

The White Sox almost certainly would include Fields in any trade for Cabrera, leaving them with one more year of Joe Crede at third base. The Sox then would move Cabrera from third to left, a position where he played 248 games from 2003 to '05.

Cabrera's increasing weight and off-field habits remain concerns for every interested club, but he might benefit from moving to a larger market, where he would need to be more accountable than he's had to be in Florida.

White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, a fellow Venezuelan, could serve as Cabrera's mentor, just as he did as a Marlins coach when Cabrera was a rookie in '03.

Guillen has said that Cabrera "is like my own son" and lectured him at least twice about his weight gain in the past year.

"I'm a little upset with him," Guillen said last June. "You're still young. You're going to keep getting bigger. He knows he's got a problem. We talked about it ... When you're young and good, you can get away with a lot of stuff. When you're getting older and you go down, they say you're fat."

For the record, Cabrera is 24.

by SSH2005 on Nov 11, 2007 1:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Where can I sign for that one
If thats what it takes, again I volunteer to drive them to the airport.  Cabrera in LF is > those 3.  

by southsideirish71 on Nov 11, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would also tell Cabrera that he could...
stay on the Uribe diet if he wants to.

by SSH2005 on Nov 11, 2007 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't buy that
two years of cabrera isn't worth more than fields and gio. and owens, i guess. perhaps if we looked like a team that only needed a player like cabrera to be in contention in those two years, the deal could be defended. but, in 2008, you're only gaining about 8 wins by adding miggy and subtracting fields (not even considering owens and gio).

we'd have to make a few other moves (hunter could get you another 4 wins or so, for example) before this starts to make sense short-term. and long-term it's pretty much an obvious loser.

by larry on Nov 11, 2007 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
No reason to make this trade since it hurts the team in the long term and the Sox aren't good enough to make it pay off in the short term.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Nov 12, 2007 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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