Kenny Williams batting .750

by The Wizard on Dec 12, 2007 11:01 PM CST in Quotes

Kenny has hit 3 out of 4 targets. It's the last target that gives Kenny problems:

Williams set out to achieve four personnel goals when the White Sox offseason began, determined to not let what happened to the South Siders during the 2007 season transpire again. Three of those targets have been hit dead on, but the four misses on target No. 4 -- a new outfielder -- have caused the bulk of the public consternation.

"We wanted to upgrade at shortstop, get a setup guy for the bullpen, acquire Carlos Quentin -- and not a guy like him, but actually Carlos Quentin -- and address our center field position," Williams said. "So, we are three out of four, and generally, you feel good about three out of four. But I'm not satisfied. The bottom line is there are a couple of things we haven't gotten done, but it's still a work in progress."

...The White Sox will continue to look for a center field upgrade via the trade route, with Coco Crisp a possibility, hinging on Boston's ability to acquire Minnesota ace Johan Santana. Williams also cautioned that the White Sox are not in dire straits at this position, with Jerry Owens showing the ability to be a catalyst in the second half of last season.

Where the White Sox fans' current disdain is concerned, Williams understands the passion and frustration coming from putting your heart and soul into a team. He will accept the responsibility, even with the prevailing thought that three-fourths of his offseason plan has been accomplished, and continue trying to improve the White Sox.

"Lost in it all is the fact that we still have a nice balance with young guys combined with All-Star-type players. We still have a pretty darn good baseball team," Williams said. "If the Tigers hadn't done what they did, I don't know if we would be facing some of this."

"It's not a good day for us, obviously. But I'd say we must have done something right, built up some sort of credibility, for a long period of time to have so much passion -- even at a time that I'm largely the guy it will fall upon."

Tweet Comment 149 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

its not a good day for us?

what does that even mean?

by Jbasic89 on Dec 12, 2007 11:15 PM CST reply actions

Akino Otsuka non-tendered

angers non-tendered RHP Akinori Otsuka and outfielder Nick Gorneault.

The Rangers are setting Otsuka free even though the reports back from his rehabilitation have been positive. With the way the relief market has blown up, it would have been worth the risk to pay Otsuka $4 million, especially since they still would have had him under control for 2009. This makes C.J. Wilson the current favorite to close for the Rangers, though the team figures to consider Octavio Dotel and maybe a couple of other options.
Related: Nick Gorneault, C.J. Wilson

How is this not someone we move in on.

by southsideirish71 on Dec 12, 2007 11:45 PM CST reply actions

You know, I think it should be...

He's a "proven closer". Sign him to a 2-year deal at $3Mish a year and try to flip him or Jenks for players is he's healthy...

by hitlesswonder on Dec 12, 2007 11:56 PM CST up reply actions

Otsuka

I'd guess that if the rehab reports truly were positive, he would have been retained or traded.

by Jon @ South Side Sox on Dec 13, 2007 12:39 AM CST up reply actions

Otsuka...

I'd love to take a chance on him.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 7:17 AM CST up reply actions

KW spinnin'

It's just bugging me. The "We got Carlos Quentin!" thing in particular. Cowley says the Fukudome would have been in LF for the Sox. Which means Quentin would have been in AAA. And he still might.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM CST reply actions

Nothing like blowing Carter

For what they were considering as a 4th OF. Nice job Kenny.

Wooo

by southsideirish71 on Dec 13, 2007 12:10 AM CST up reply actions

I like that he's spinning

It's better than him coming out and saying "we've got other irons in the fire" when we all know those other irons are Juan Pierre and Coco Crisp, who aren't difference makers or worth the amount they'd cost in both in terms of talent and dollars...

Spin away, Kenny. Let BA, Jesse, and Sweeney compete for CF duties.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2007 12:18 AM CST up reply actions

Well, sure

If spinning decreases the chances of trading for Pierre or Crisp I'm all for it. I'm just not sure those two things are correlated.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 1:02 AM CST up reply actions

Honestly, I'd rather see him in AAA

than with Walker if the goal is to get him out of this injury induced slump. Well maybe not, but possibly. Didn't we just move one of our bottom level hitting coaches up to AAA or something recently?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 13, 2007 4:55 AM CST up reply actions

Kenny's quotes

nice spin - and as close to a mea culpa as you'll ever see out of him.

and listen,i know i'm just a dumb ole polack, but if he hit on "3 out of 4", yet "The bottom line is there are a couple of things we haven't gotten done", shouldn't that be 3 outta 5? and just what is the 5th? inquiring minds wanna know.....

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call........... the Kenny Zone.

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Dec 13, 2007 3:50 AM CST reply actions

I can count too...

and something smells fishy here. And it's not these stinky Sox. That's a different funk altogether.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 7:21 AM CST up reply actions

Gonzales

Crede, who can become a free agent after 2008, makes the most sense for the Sox to trade for an outfielder. But the Sox could listen to offers for first baseman Paul Konerko, who might bring the most value.

Konerko, a staple of the Sox offense, will receive full no-trade rights in May by virtue of playing in the majors for at least 10 seasons, including the last five with the Sox.

It shouldn't come down to that, but the failure to sign an outfielder, lack of depth in the farm system and a plethora of limited and full no-trade clauses limits flexibility to upgrade the roster.

link

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Dec 13, 2007 4:10 AM CST reply actions

Whoa

"It shouldn't come down to that, but the failure to sign an outfielder, lack of depth in the farm system and a plethora of limited and full no-trade clauses limits flexibility to upgrade the roster."

It almost sounds like Gonzalez gets it.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 AM CST up reply actions

Cowley

The original plan was to stun the baseball world this offseason by trading for Orlando Cabrera and Miguel Cabrera and signing free agents Torii Hunter and Scott Linebrink, all by Thanksgiving.

Through all the carnage, the Sox still don't have a proven center or left fielder, have two third basemen and lack a veteran leadoff hitter.

The hope now is that the Boston Red Sox don't trade Coco Crisp to the Minnesota Twins for Johan Santana and that the Sox can make a deal for the speedy center fielder. Angels speedster Chone Figgins also might be on the radar, but Williams won't make a deal just to make one -- no matter how bruised he's feeling these days.

link

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Dec 13, 2007 4:25 AM CST reply actions

Interesting that the Real Plan A

is made public the same day as the Mitchell Report is released.

Both carry approximately the same mass. Or, in the physical world:

mass x spin = moot

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2007 6:03 AM CST up reply actions

Yes!

Chone Figgins! ~.840 OPS. Get. Him. Here.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 7:19 AM CST up reply actions

I like this...

"If the Tigers hadn't done what they did, I don't know if we would be facing some of this"

....

Hey, would it be possible to send $15 million to the Devil Rays, along with some prospects for Carl Crawford? What's the max amount of money you can send in a trade?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 7:22 AM CST reply actions

1 million I think?

After that it requires approval from the commissioner's office. So, as much as you want. Hell, Texas sent 7 a year for 4 years? Sox just got 4 from Anaheim.

by coffeepac on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM CST up reply actions

Mitchell

what former sox do you think will be on the list? any thought to pods being on there since once HGH and steroids became a topic, he couldnt even stay remotely healthy?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 7:25 AM CST reply actions

I sure hope...

the Big Hurt ain't on it. I would be devastated.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 7:29 AM CST up reply actions

me too

he was my favorite player when i was growing up (what sox fan didnt love him?). I'm just hoping that he was that massive because of his huge frame and not becasue of juice.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 7:32 AM CST up reply actions

Spin

If he really accomplished 3 of the 4 things he set out to accomplish, he wouldn't say, "it's not a good day for us." And if you believe his plan, he wanted Carlos Quentin more than Miguel Cabrera. I think he needs a new plan.

by cachhubguy on Dec 13, 2007 7:26 AM CST reply actions

sure he would

isn't it obvious that one of those four things was slightly bigger than the others?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 9:05 AM CST up reply actions

apples and oranges

quentin strikes me as a quy who's been on KW's radar and he wanted to get him for some time.

cabrerra-- who'd have known the Marlins wanted to unload him anyway? You can't plan for that-- it's like driving along the road and seeing something at a garage sale-- albeit a very expensive garage sale.

I actually agree w/ the sentiment here-- KW addressed 3 of 4 areas. And I think Owens or Anderson (c'mon Ozzie, quit dissin' the guy) could do as well as Crisp or some other slappy guy. The only slappy type I'd think would be an improvement is Taveras. He can actually make things happen, unlike Pierre or Crisp.

I think it would be sweet if Anderson turned into the 20 hr, .270-.290-ish hitter w/ solid cf defense that was expected. It's not too late.

In 3 yrs, the Angels and Giants will be stuck with contracts for CF's they don't want, and we won't. And I still think the Tigers don't have age on their side either. Rogers? Mags? Sheff? I wouldn't be handing over the central div to them just yet.

by ruffster on Dec 13, 2007 9:16 AM CST up reply actions

not to argue the point, but

"cabrerra-- who'd have known the Marlins wanted to unload him anyway? You can't plan for that--"

well, obviously Kenny knew, since in Cowley's words "The original plan was to stun the baseball world this offseason by trading for Orlando Cabrera and Miguel Cabrera and signing free agents Torii Hunter and Scott Linebrink, all by Thanksgiving."

by Air Raid Siren Stan on Dec 13, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions

hilariously...

The angel's already regret a CF contract. Hello Sarge Jr.

by coffeepac on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM CST up reply actions

Chone Figgins

When the Cubs inquired about Chone Figgins, the Angels wanted Aramis Ramirez. It might take Konerko to get him.

by cachhubguy on Dec 13, 2007 7:28 AM CST reply actions

Let's do it.

Done deal.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 7:30 AM CST up reply actions

PK

i dont even think they would do it for konerko because what would they do with kotchman? they'd deal figgins for aramis because they have no 3B.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 7:33 AM CST up reply actions

hahahah

look at brett boone's stats, i wonder if hes gonna be on the mitchell....... =\
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/boonebr01.shtml

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 7:35 AM CST reply actions

let's name some more names

luis gonzales, brady anderson, clemens, sosa, jose valentin, ...

by ruffster on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM CST up reply actions

Another thing

why do chicago sports writers get hard ons for theriot, and then puke when they talk about JO?? look at their stats, they are almost the exact same.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 7:38 AM CST reply actions

I can think of...

...one very unfortunate reason this may be so.

by JasonC23 on Dec 13, 2007 8:26 AM CST up reply actions

because...

you can make funny use of Theriot's name... like... The Riot?

or... because Theriot is white and Owens is black? There, I said it.

Or... because Owens plays CF and Theriot plays 2B/SS?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 8:47 AM CST up reply actions

names, names, names

they're trickling out now. roger clemens is our first winner.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 9:10 AM CST reply actions

i dont think

anyone is shocked by that one.... hes a linebacker now with a size 28 neck.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 9:11 AM CST up reply actions

honestly

are we going to be shocked by more than a few names? even that's a maybe. there are already at least 40 or 50 names out there in various other reports. anyone else who gets named is likely to be a "yeah, could have guessed that one."

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM CST up reply actions

i bet

there will be only a couple shocking names. but you're right larry, most of the guys reported will pass the "looks" test or we have heard them before, so the majority wont be shocking.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 9:15 AM CST up reply actions

All

I WANT is for Clemens and Sosa to get nailed....how in the hell hasn't Sosa been formally nailed yet? He's not that smart. That just irritates the livin' piss out of me.

by dantesox on Dec 13, 2007 9:49 AM CST up reply actions

no speakie english

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 10:17 AM CST up reply actions

Gee, you think he's spinning ?

So, after he signs Cabrera, he says that he'll be batting second. Then, he planned to add Hunter and Quentin ? So, who was going to leadoff ? Richar ?

I thought he and Ozzie wanted the prototypical leadoff man ?

And, wasn't Miggy going to be the LFer ? And, Hunter in CF and Crede at 3B because Fields would be traded. Miggy wasn't part of 3/4 ? This was a diferent plan ?

Would Fukudome even be considered if Hunter signed ? No. So, where would this leadoff hitter come from ? Oh, my mistake it wasn't even part of the 4-part plan. Right.

Somebody missed out on a lot of plans and that somebody is doing a lot of lying, too.

by White Sox Randy on Dec 13, 2007 9:27 AM CST reply actions

How

often do I have to say this? You do what you can when you can given the.....just look at my stuff from the past posts, not that you should care enough to. For all you people who live to nitpick at these "plans," get a life. Williams, like everyone else, gets temporarily derailed when someone like Cabrera becomes suddenly available....would you prefer he didn't look into it and proceed as if it didn't happen?...Christ. He's done what he can with a plan that has to be flexible given how quickly the market can change. It never goes exactly the way you want it. IF he gets an outfielder for a reasonable sum, another arm or two....etc, he'll have done just fine.

by dantesox on Dec 13, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions

Konerko

I think the writing is on the wall for Konerko. He becomes a 5 and 10 year guy in May. Williams will not want to be handcuffed by Konerko. I think........he gone!

by cachhubguy on Dec 13, 2007 9:32 AM CST reply actions

sure

but who is in need of a 1B that actually has something to give up in return?
Giants- have a bunch of crap
Marlins- wouldnt take the salary
Rangers- doubt it, they just got broussard and Shelton
Mariners- cant get rid of sexson.
Orioles- not in the plans for the way they are moving vets
Jays- possibility if they can move overbay.
i dont see any other teams with openings.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 9:36 AM CST up reply actions

Konerko

I'm not sure i agree with this konerko idea. Will any team give fair value for him?

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/13/rumor-white-sox-may-place-konerko-on-trade-block/

by em3 on Dec 13, 2007 9:35 AM CST reply actions

Wow....

That blog was full of dumb statements.
Fields is a natrual (sic) 3B. He might play the position, but I would call him a natural.
Trade Konerko and move Crede to first. Way to big of a risk there, and Fields seems like the more logical guy to make a long-term move to a new position.
Why not just grab Corey Patterson on a short term deal instead? Because he sucks.

by BoKnows on Dec 13, 2007 9:50 AM CST up reply actions

would not call him a natural

by BoKnows on Dec 13, 2007 9:51 AM CST up reply actions

Let me see if I understand this right

"We wanted to upgrade at shortstop...

Agreed, we needed to upgrade at SS. But at what price? You gave up Garland, and are essentially replacing him with Floyd. For what we gain with OC > Uribe, we probably lose it back with Garland > Floyd.

get a setup guy for the bullpen...

Anything is an improvement in the bullpen, ok we'll be charitable and give you that.

acquire Carlos Quentin -- and not a guy like him, but actually Carlos Quentin...

I guess he's an improvement over Pods & Mackozuna, but he's essentially unproven.

-- and address our center field position," ...

Uh, no. Right now Jerry Owens is your CF, that's a pretty gaping hole. In addition, you have Richar as your opening day 2B. You'd have to be very optimistic to say that Richar > Iguchi.

So how is this team better than last year? Starting pitching will be weaker, and the bullpen can't get worse (can it?), so it'll improve. Let's say pitching's a wash, so no help there.

Offensively:

C= same
1B= same
2B= same/worse
SS= better
3B= same
LF= same
CF= worse
RF= same
DH= same

This is being charitable and assuming the old guys don't get injured or have significant declines. Even with that big assumption, I don't see where we made any huge improvement offensively. In fact, odds are that at least one of the youngsters Fields, Richar, Quentin or Owens will struggle (Fields has an unholy 40% K rate). I guess we can stick Crede at 3B to better assure consistent performance.

I dunno. Sorry Kenny, I ain't buying what you're selling.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 13, 2007 9:51 AM CST reply actions

Ozuna...

I predict he will be the opening day 2nd baseman (unless he re-injures himself prior to that).

by Brush Back on Dec 13, 2007 9:59 AM CST up reply actions

We're just putting bandaids on this thing

This is how the Cubbies used to do things. Pretend everything is hunky dory to keep the fans numb.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 13, 2007 10:14 AM CST up reply actions

It's all about a lot of flexibility.

Where would we be without Jerry? Not a pretty thought.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 13, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

How can CF be worse than ErstaDL?

I can see your point overall, but what the hell is KW supposed to say? He wanted to sign some of the free agents and it didn't pan out. BFD.

I also think that some of us are looking at either the roster make up or the financial situation of the Sox (as well as other teams) and not both of them together as KW is required to do. I'm not going to waste time defending KW because I can level plenty of criticism with the way things have been handled over the past 2 years, but I don't think he deserves to be hated on like he has been the last few weeks on this blog.

And to add my 2 cents on the recent free agent CF signings, I agree with larry that Cubs and Angels made smart additions because of their window of competitive opportunity. The Giants just set themselves up to be "Baltimore West", as some posters like to call it, even more so than the Sox because they've spent a bunch of money on a veteran that could have been better used on scouting, draft signings, schrewd FA signings, etc.

That being said, I will enjoy watching the Legend when visiting Old Navy Park in SF (esp in May when the Sox are in town), and be glad the Sox didn't sign him when he repeatedly grounds out to ss or flies out to left.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM CST up reply actions

What's worse than ErstaDL?

A full year of Jerry Owens instead of half a year of Jerry Owens.

I can never hate Kenny, he gave us a WS. He's done some really clever things that I really liked. But now? I think there's a lot of PR/attendance things beyond his control that have him completely boxed into this corner. But still, a lot of this is his own doing. I can see why he wants out of the AL, his life would be much easier in the NL.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 AM CST up reply actions

owens was better than erstad last year

and i'd say it's safe to assume owens will be better than he was last year, as well.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM CST up reply actions

haha

Pride of ownership.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 13, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions

i'd call it fact

i'm not saying owens is particularly good. but a full year of him in center v. the erstad/owens split we basically saw last year is probably worth somewhere in the neighborhood of a win. it has more to do with how bad erstad was.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 3:43 PM CST up reply actions

It hasn't happened yet,

so how can it be called "fact"? A reasonable projection, perhaps, but "fact"?

Someone is reading his own press clippings....

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions

i was referring

to owens being better than erstad last year. i think the numbers are pretty clear on that.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 4:13 PM CST up reply actions

That's a fact

'08 is anyone's guess, obviously, and I would concur with your assessment.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2007 4:15 PM CST up reply actions

lets assume Konerko gets traded

which I'd be fine with (depending on the haul), but who plays first in 08?

a) Permanent move for Dye?
b) Permanent move for Fields?
c) Someone else who comes along in that deal.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Dec 13, 2007 9:55 AM CST reply actions

Dallas MacPherson

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 10:02 AM CST up reply actions

I'm all about this now...

It's obvious that Kenny has failed in what he was trying to accomplish when Cameron, Patterson, Coco, and Pierre are the remaining options in CF.

Trade Konerko, Crede, and Uribe for prospects. Sign Dallas McPherson. Start Anderson/Sweeney/Owens in CF.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 10:10 AM CST up reply actions

again

where could you ship konerko to for value? i dont see a place.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions

just to point out

things aren't quite as limited as you made them out in your "what teams are looking for a 1B" post. expand to teams that have DH issues, too. you could throw teams like seattle or texas onto the list, off the top of my head. not a huge expansion of teams but a team looking to add offense will usually find a way to make the lineup work so there may be others.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions

damn you

larry, you're always right! hahaha.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 10:28 AM CST up reply actions

i'm not always right

but, when thinking about trades, you gotta think creatively while still being realistic. i harp on this but one has to consider what a team wants. if a team wants offense - i could see the mariners being such a team - they'll try to make a fit. there may be other teams that can move a 1B around on the field to make it work. PK is a relatively attractive bat to add.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

mariners

what does wlads balantein project to be like?? i know he used to be a big name, but has he cooled off in his major league projections??

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 10:35 AM CST up reply actions

Konerko for Balentien and Clement? Deal.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 11:02 AM CST up reply actions

That would be sweet!

BP's Kevin Goldstein on Clement

by The Wizard on Dec 13, 2007 1:56 PM CST up reply actions

2008 ZiPS

Wladimir Balentien rf 23 .247 .319 .430

Not too bad for a 23 year old in Safeco, I think.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 11:03 AM CST up reply actions

The Giants need a 1B too.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions

Unfortunately...

the Giants don't have anyone that they'd be willing to trade that the White Sox could use. They have a couple of extremely valuable young pitchers and a bunch of crap.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 13, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

Kenny won't admit

that he goofed for 2008. So no way he dumps Konerko. He already signed Cabrera and Linebrink to compete in 2008.

What I do see happening is a cleaning up during the trading deadline next year.

Kenny can save face a little if he trades some of these guys at the deadline. I could see him trading Dye, Cabrera, Vazquez, Jenks, Konerko, Crede, etc. at that time. He will say that the team tried to compete in 2008 but fell low of expectations, etc.

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 13, 2007 10:19 AM CST up reply actions

I agree

He can't fold now, he's got to play this hand until July at least. But who can we trade at the deadline? Konerko gets vested full 10/5 NTC in May. MB has full NTC in 2008, same with JD and Linebrink (?). Phillies are eating half of Thome's salary as long as he's with the CWS - for us he's a huge bargain at $7mm/yr in 2008 and $6.5mm club option in 2009 so it would be silly to trade him. OCab, Crede and Uribe are one year wonders so they're not worth anything in trade.

The only players who'll bring anything in trade at the deadline are AJ, Vazquez and Jenks. And you can't trade AJ unless we get a C in return. Nope, KW had his chance to change this team around through trading vets last summer and this winter. That time has passed.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 13, 2007 11:04 AM CST up reply actions

Well said

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2007 11:15 AM CST up reply actions

Williams could trade Pierzynski...

pretty easy. The team has Toby Hall and Donny Lucy on the roster, and there's always fringy backup catchers floating around to pick up on the cheap.

The question is, would anyone give up anything for him? He has very little defensive value, and he isn't hitting anymore.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 13, 2007 11:19 AM CST up reply actions

Fits right into our scheme.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 13, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions

Call me blasphemous

but what would Jenks bring in trade? A cheap,dominant closer seems to be quite the luxury on this team. I'd think he'd bring in a nice haul of prospects from a contender - too bad the Tigers and Indians are in our division.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 13, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions

It's not blasphemous

He'd be the best Sox player to trade. He's cheap, good, and under control for several more years. And he plays a position that is glamorous, but overvalued.

I think Jenks could bring in multiple good prospects from the right team, like an A prospect and a B prospect.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

Well

if we're 10 games out at the break and KW goees to JD and says "hey things haven't worked out how I thought" we're rebuilding now. Do you want me to trade you to a contender? I think JD would be like sure as long as I'm guaranteed to play (which wasn't the case in Boston last year).

by bhoov on Dec 13, 2007 1:11 PM CST up reply actions

Don't

EVER MENTION JENKS IN TRADE RUMORS EVER AGAIN... DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN WE HAD SHINGO?!?!? SOME OF YOU GUYS ARE BRAIN DEAD!

"Because I'm Chevy Chase and you're not."

by Soulja Boy on Dec 13, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions

i remember

when we had a healthy dustin hermanson that saved us 30 games too.... hitless is right, the position is glamorous and over-valued. you can find many guys to close games as long as they get acclimated and comfortable.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 12:00 PM CST up reply actions

OH YEAH????

AND WE HAVE THE STABILITY IN OUR BULL PEN TO TRADE JENKS DEACON? C'MON EVEN YOU ARE SMARTER THAN THAT! HERMANSON SAVED 30 GAMES WITH SMOKE AND MIRRORS, JENKS SAVES GAMES WITH OVERWHELMING STUFF. ASK THE CUBS IF THE CLOSER ROLE IS OVER RATED....

"Because I'm Chevy Chase and you're not."

by Soulja Boy on Dec 14, 2007 5:47 PM CST up reply actions

The flames are singeing

the computer. Soulja, assume your rightful place! At the right hand of the Dark One. (According to Carl, that's Bud Selig.)

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 7:12 PM CST up reply actions

quoting Brick Tamland:

LOUD NOISES!!!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 13, 2007 2:01 PM CST up reply actions

This is the second time

the name has come up in two threads, yet no one seems to have broached the elephant in the room....

McPherson sucks. Oh sure he's got some great minor league totals, but he's got a .342 OBP in and 203/45 K/BB ratio in 521 AAA at-bats. And that's in the PCL.

A guy with his kind of contact skills is, at best, a low-OBP slugger.

A low-OBP slugger with a back problem that held him out for last season, where have I heard that one before?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2007 12:33 PM CST up reply actions

He's always had injury problems

Ever since he was called up.

He had great potential, and was one of my next favorite players growing up so close to me, but he really fell apart.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 12:42 PM CST up reply actions

Well, in my defense

I was only semi-serious about McPherson. He was the only 1B-type name I saw on the non-tender list so I just threw it out there.

But isn't a tenet of sabremetric faith that .800 OPS 1B/DHs are just laying around in the street waiting to be picked up? Who is this year's Carlos Pena or Jack Cust? The Sox need to trade Konerko and get that guy...

The thing about trading Konerko is that I don't know if freeing up money is all that useful to the Sox right now.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 12:46 PM CST up reply actions

I was pretty sure

you were being funny/throwing shit at the wall...

but the post was met with some non-mocking enthusiasm.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2007 12:59 PM CST up reply actions

What would it take for KW to be canned?

Or is JR so in love with him it won't happen?

by LVSoxFan on Dec 13, 2007 10:14 AM CST reply actions

What would it take for KW to get canned?

Wearing an authentic Luke Appling jersey taken from the White Sox Hall of Pride display case, then cleaning his strawberry-stained hands on it.
"Streaking" through a White Sox-Orioles game in a flesh-colored bodysuit.
Tying the World Series trophy to the back of a car and dragging it around the Cell parking lot, yelling, though a bullhorn: "Attention, Reinsdorf and board of director morons! Your triumphs mean nothing. You all stink. You can sit on it, and rotate! This is Kenny Williams. I fear no reprisal. Extension 5-1-7-0."

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 10:21 AM CST up reply actions

lol. i think that made my day

"Streaking" through a White Sox-Orioles game in a flesh-colored bodysuit

nice.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 13, 2007 10:28 AM CST up reply actions

Credit where it's due...

Those were George's attempt to get Steinbrenner to can him on Seinfeld.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, but it didn't work!

Wasn't he promoted after doing those things?

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 13, 2007 11:03 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah...he couldn't get fired

Quotes:
Jerry: How could they not fire you?
George: I never thought I'd fail at failing.
Jerry: Aw, come on there, now.
George: I feel like I can't do anything wrong.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 11:07 AM CST up reply actions

George...

is my hero. Oh by the way, Happy Festivus everyone.

www.fratdaddy.blogspot.com

by Raf on Dec 13, 2007 10:35 AM CST reply actions

Twins sign SS Adam Everett to 1-year deal...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7559454

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 11:07 AM CST reply actions

I was actually thinking...

that that was a good match. Good signing by the Twins.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 13, 2007 11:13 AM CST up reply actions

Don't think it will help their offense, though

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions

ugh

I'm sure it won't be long before someone calls him a pirahna...

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 13, 2007 8:52 PM CST up reply actions

here's the list!

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22243678

by LVSoxFan on Dec 13, 2007 11:10 AM CST reply actions

not really

look at the misspellings, and "pudge rodriguez".
troy glaus must have taken a ton because hes on that list twice, same with juan gonzalez.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 11:12 AM CST up reply actions

Remember Prior bad-mouthing Kittle after Kittle

alluded to him using steroids?

by LVSoxFan on Dec 13, 2007 11:15 AM CST up reply actions

Black Jack outed Prior

IIRC

by Big Daddy Kool on Dec 13, 2007 11:54 AM CST up reply actions

pulled the story

if you go to cnbc.com, you cant find that story anymore.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

Blue Jays sign David Eckstein...

"Jays get Eckstein for $4.5 million.

I wonder if this helps or hurts Uribe's trade value? I would think it would help since he is under the same contract for 2008 as Eckstein now.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM CST reply actions

i remember when jerry and bhoov

stated this guy was going to get 2 or 3 years at $7MM per. i didn't think he'd get that much but certainly something better than this. i take this as a sign that not everybody is crazy.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 13, 2007 8:55 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed...

I thought that the 3-year, $21 million dollar deals that people here were talking about were ridiculous. But I thought that Eckstein would surely get more than a Juan Uribe deal.

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 8:59 PM CST up reply actions

My recollection

is that I was saying 2-3 years at 5 mill a pop. And that I'd sign him for that, but not for 7 mill. Of course that was before the advanced defensive metrics came out.

In the past those metrics indicated that despite his arm Eckstein was an average fielding SS. Once those metrics showed he had declined in the field I was against signing Eck.

by bhoov on Dec 13, 2007 9:48 PM CST up reply actions

i'd recommend counting on my memory

over yours.

http://www.southsidesox.com/comments/2007/8/31/134631/125/48#48

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 14, 2007 9:13 AM CST up reply actions

wow

set the hook, and reel 'em in

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 14, 2007 9:56 AM CST up reply actions

i should disclose

my thinking on this was fluid. bhoov's and jerry's probably was, too. in the summer, i thought eckstein would get something in that range. then he got hurt (again) and didn't perform well after, though he did pick it up over the last month of the season. and when i saw what uribe got, well, that made me think he wouldn't get all that much more. but, jeez, i don't think there was anyone who thought eckstein would get a one year deal for so little, especially when there weren't any other SS FAs of note. my point with the post was more that everyone - eckstein included - really overestimated the market for him. those two just stuck in my mind because i recalled those posts.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 14, 2007 10:22 AM CST up reply actions

In which the northsiders get outed

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/12/reports-wood-pr.html

by Big Daddy Kool on Dec 13, 2007 11:53 AM CST reply actions

I don't believe that KW will ever embrace.......

a rebuilding process/phase. Secondly, does anyone have any confidence that he could do it really well even if he decided to go in that direction ?

Kenny loves to package up a bunch of players to try to get a superstar(he's good at that) but when have I seen him move an established star player at the right time for a big return in young players ? Never.

Who's confident that KW is the right guy to unload Konerko, Dye, Vaz, Buehrle, Aj, Thome etc. for a huge cache of elite prospects ?

by White Sox Randy on Dec 13, 2007 11:58 AM CST reply actions

If he's got the money to spend

he shouldn't have to. He just used November to make the team into a .500 club and our biggest loss was Chris Carter for a young left fielder and a draft pick.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 13, 2007 2:36 PM CST up reply actions

Rowand's contract details...

Under the terms of his deal with the Giants, Aaron Rowand gets a full no-trade clause for 2008 and a limited one after that.
Rowand is set to make $60 million over five years. He gets an $8 million signing bonus, with $4 million to be paid in 2008 and $4 million in '09, and salaries of $8 million in '08, $8 million in '09 and $12 million in each of the final three years of the contract.

Source: San Jose Mercury News

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 11:59 AM CST reply actions

Rangers sign Kazuo Fukumori...

FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal reports that the Rangers and Kazuo Fukumori have come to terms on a two-year, $3 million contract.
If that's the best Fukumori could do, he must have really wanted to pitch in the U.S. It would have made a lot more sense to stay in Japan for another season and try to rebuild his value. The 31-year-old is coming off an off year in which he had a 4.76 ERA. He has to be considered a sleeper for saves in Texas, but while the opportunity might be there, he's not as good of a bet as the other two Japanese relievers to come over this winter.

Source: FOXSports.com

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 12:07 PM CST reply actions

larry, all is forgiven

If only I had understood before today I'd have never, ever begun a pissing contest with you. From today's WSJ:

"That lawyers are among the most miserable of men -- and women -- is well-known. Some 19% of lawyers suffer depression at any given time, compared with 6.7% of the population as a whole, says the University of Arizona's Connie Beck, a leading researcher on the subject; one in five lawyers is a problem drinker, twice the national rate. Escalating billable-hours quotas fuel chronic overload, and the ceaseless deadlines and adversarial nature of the work feed anxiety. Some 19% of associate attorneys quit law firms every year, research shows."

I feel your pain. And Toonder and B(ridgeport)J(oe)'s, too. This offseason can't be helping.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2007 12:36 PM CST reply actions

At least...

I am (temporarily) out of the rat race and don't have to deal with dreary winter weather anymore.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 13, 2007 12:39 PM CST up reply actions

No dreary winter weather, maybe...

but this morning in Oaktown, it was cold as a witch's titty!

Maybe it was warmer by the lake? ;)

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2007 4:44 PM CST up reply actions

I haven't been here long enough to be fazed

by anything in the 40s.

Do you do any hiking?

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 13, 2007 4:50 PM CST up reply actions

2 posts re: hiking

Have you become The Happy Wanderer?

Val-de-RI! Val-de-RA! Val-de-RI! Val-de-RAHAHAHAHAHAHA! My knapsack on my back!

I am SO worried about you....

(PS To address your earlier question - I was only in CA in July in San Diego - did some running but it's pretty flat there.)

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2007 4:56 PM CST up reply actions

In a way, I suppose I have

I didn't realize how much I loved the mountains living in and around Chicago. Planning a 211-mile hike on the John Muir Trail for '09.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 13, 2007 4:59 PM CST up reply actions

Sounds awesome!

I've only been on the Muir trail inside of Yosemite (as far as I'm aware), but that sounds awesome.

Would that be a 2 week trip?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2007 7:26 PM CST up reply actions

Or do you mean you'll take it easy

and spend the entire year on the trail? ;)

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2007 7:27 PM CST up reply actions

Between 2-3 weeks, depending on how

much time I want to take in scenery wise. The only spots of the JMT I've been on so far are in Yosemite as well. Looking forward to Half Dome and Glacier Point in June.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions

Yep

you came to a pretty good state if you enjoy hiking.

Went backpacking in Emigrant Wilderness area in Sept and hiked around Yosemite in Nov. I don't get out as much as I would like..but I think that's the story with everyone.

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 13, 2007 7:24 PM CST up reply actions

Don't beat yourself up...

the mountains aren't going anywhere in your lifetime and you sure live close enough to access them plenty.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 11:47 AM CST up reply actions

You are getting very "Oprah"-like

since your move. Would someone send Toonder a box of Polish sausages, a wheel of cheese, and a video of "Reservoir Dogs"?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah,

guys who hang out in the mountains are typically very Oprah-like. And please...I can Tarantino anbody from here to Hoboken.

"I was up in the stand and I seen the bear. It came from thar thicket and it was beside the road and I shot it."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 14, 2007 12:58 PM CST up reply actions

Strapping one,

I meant the "don't beat yourself up" part.

Now go get your shine box!

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions

Mitchell Report

Available for download at mlb.com.

The "names" begin on page 145...enjoy!

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 13, 2007 1:22 PM CST reply actions

Jim Parque

Made the list...wow. That guy must not have been taking them correctly!

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 13, 2007 1:23 PM CST up reply actions

yeah

and my most hated sox player, fucking whiner...

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 13, 2007 1:27 PM CST up reply actions

White Sox search results

Frank Thomas is quoted as saying "he'd love to see testing".

Jim Parque

Matt Karchner - said he saw some teammates taking steroids (while on the Cubs), declined to name them.

Scott Schoeneweis

Reference to how the Black Sox scandal forced baseball to clean up the gambling problem.

And that's it.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 13, 2007 1:36 PM CST reply actions

Positive Sox news...

The team may blow, but this puts the organization in a good light.

The White Sox abortive attempt force testing is one of the all-time underreported stories in this fiasco. Link to 2003 NYT story.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 13, 2007 1:47 PM CST up reply actions

What's actually more remarkable

is that White Sox players continue to lose relatively few days to the DL. All the more to Herm.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 13, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions

The List (partial)

Roger Clemens
Andy Pettitte
Gregg Zaun
Todd Hundley
Lenny Dykstra
Jack Cust
David Justice
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Miguel Tejada
Eric Gagne (surprise!)
Jim Parque (hah!)

The list goes on and on and on. Oh, and apparently in 1999 Matt Karchner saw 2 Cubs team mates take roids, but he declined to identify them.

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 13, 2007 1:38 PM CST reply actions

Brian Roberts

Ouch....

by BobbySouthSide on Dec 13, 2007 1:42 PM CST up reply actions

Be careful what you ask for

You might get a needle in the ass.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 13, 2007 1:48 PM CST up reply actions

cubs were juicers

matt karchner saw 2 cubs juicin but didnt give them up.
glenallen hill, jerry hairston jr., todd hundley, matt franco, rondell white, todd pratt, kent merker, ismael valdez,

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 13, 2007 1:49 PM CST up reply actions

Don't forget Carmen Fanzone!

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 13, 2007 1:54 PM CST up reply actions

List...

Marvin Benard
Barry Bonds
Bobby Estalella
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Benito Santiago
Gary Sheffield
Randy Velarde
Lenny Dysktra
David Segui
Larry Bigbie
Brian Roberts
Jack Cust
Tim Laker
Josias Manzanillo
Todd Hundley
Mark Carreon
Hal Morris
Matt Franco
Rondell White
Roger Clemens
Andy Pettite
Chuck Knoblauch
Jason Grimsley
Greg Zaun
David Justice
F.P. Santangello
Glenallen Hill
Mo Vaughn
Denny Neagle
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Chris Donnels
Todd Williams
Phil Hiatt
Todd Pratt
Kevin Young
Mike Lansing
Cody Mckay
Kent Mercker
Andy Piatt
Miguel Tejada
Jason Christianson
Mike Stanton
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Adam Riggs
Bart Miadich
Chad Allen
Fernando Vina
Kevin Brown
Eric Gagne
Mike Bell
Matt Herges
Gary Bennett Jr.
Jim Parque
Brandon Donnelly
Jeff Williams
Howie Clark
Nook Logan
Daniel Naulty
Rick Ankiel
Paul Byrd
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jose Guillen
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Scott Schoeneweis
Jose Canseco
Jason Grimsley
Darren Holmes
John Rocker
Ismael Valdez
Matt Williams
Steve Woodard
David Bell

by SSH2005 on Dec 13, 2007 1:48 PM CST reply actions

NOOOOO

NOOOOOOO...

K Logan.

heh

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 13, 2007 2:05 PM CST up reply actions

this report is the tip of the iceberg

Latin american baseball camps are reportedly hotbeds of steroid use-- and for high-school aged kids/"prospects." It seems that latin american MLB players have their own distribution chains and don't need some clubhouse guy to turn them on; they've been using for years.

And what pct of MLB players are from latin america? There are very few listed in the mitchell rpt.

by ruffster on Dec 13, 2007 2:11 PM CST reply actions

sabean

[AP]:

"With this move, we will no longer listen to any offers for Cain and Lincecum," Sabean said. "We know the value of both individuals, believe me, maybe more so now that we've gone through this exercise. They might be the hottest two names in baseball."

hottest two names in baseball? that's floyd and danks you dope!

by The Wizard on Dec 13, 2007 2:26 PM CST reply actions