How bad were we at LF, 3B, SS and CF

by bhoov on Dec 13, 2007 10:25 PM CST

Last year our LFers hit .256/.332/.399/.731. Of course once Mack was traded it was sig. worse than that. So .249/.342/.428/.770 would be a very nice upgrade. The AL average for LF is .275 .335 .426.

Amazingly our CFers posted an incredibly putrid .247/.308/.320/.628 line. Average for CF is .272 .340 .414 .754. An average everyday CF would probably be a 5 win upgrade (Mike Cameron are you out there?)!

3B? .221/.275/.367/.642 (remember Crede sucked before going under the knife and when Fields went to LF gonzalez and Cintron replaced him). Still, that is amazingly bad. Average is .266 .334 .427 .761 (of course that includes A-rod).

SS: .232 .279 .380 .659

Summing up
SS: .659
3b: .642
CF: .628
LF: .731

That is frankly stunningly bad. If Fields, Quentin and Cabrera meet their projections we're about 10 wins better.

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By the way

Got this from David Pinto's website, Baseball musings. bookmark it. Here is the white sox breakdown by position and lineup spot (leadoff position!)

http://www.baseballmusings.com/cgi-bin/TeamBatterSplits.py?StartDate=03%2F03%2F2007&EndDate=10%2 F30%2F2007&GameType=all&PlayedVs=0&Park=0&PlayerID=4&BatterType=1

by bhoov on Dec 13, 2007 10:31 PM CST reply actions

copied tables

since this has been what I've been doing this week, I'm getting (especially) good at playing with HTML (PHP too!)

Defensive Position	AB	Hits	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	IBB	HBP	K	SH	SF	GDP	CI	BA	OBA	Slug%
Catcher	598	146	28	0	12	49	28	5	8	82	2	5	22	0	.244	.285	.351
First Base	601	152	34	0	30	90	80	8	2	115	2	6	20	1	.253	.340	.459
Second Base	592	146	29	8	12	55	66	2	3	110	4	4	12	0	.247	.323	.383
Third Base	603	133	20	1	22	78	44	0	2	167	6	3	11	0	.221	.275	.367
Shortstop	568	132	20	2	20	72	35	3	4	120	7	5	8	0	.232	.279	.380
Leftfield	581	149	31	5	14	63	58	1	10	112	7	4	19	0	.256	.332	.399
Centerfield	643	159	14	3	9	53	48	0	9	120	6	1	12	0	.247	.308	.320
Rightfield	608	162	41	1	31	90	56	2	5	132	2	4	19	0	.266	.331	.490
Designated Hitter	550	143	29	0	37	105	109	12	8	156	0	2	12	1	.260	.389	.515

Lineup order doesn't really matter much, but I'll post it anyway....

Lineup Slot	AB	Hits	2B	3B	HR	RBI	BB	IBB	HBP	K	SH	SF	GDP	CI	BA	OBA	Slug%
Batting #1	679	176	25	5	4	43	57	0	5	118	4	1	14	2	.259	.321	.328
Batting #2	647	155	27	4	21	80	67	0	2	159	11	5	13	0	.240	.311	.391
Batting #3	591	150	28	0	39	110	109	13	7	161	0	5	16	0	.254	.374	.499
Batting #4	617	166	42	0	36	102	74	8	5	119	0	5	25	0	.269	.350	.512
Batting #5	614	149	30	0	23	81	51	3	8	114	2	4	14	0	.243	.307	.404
Batting #6	599	159	33	1	24	69	46	4	10	120	2	3	21	0	.265	.327	.444
Batting #7	580	137	29	3	13	66	46	2	5	116	5	4	13	0	.236	.296	.364
Batting #8	573	127	24	5	12	64	36	1	6	125	6	4	12	0	.222	.273	.344
Batting #9	541	122	11	2	18	52	46	2	4	117	11	4	10	0	.226	.289	.353

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2007 11:22 PM CST up reply actions

whistles

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 14, 2007 2:00 AM CST up reply actions

Wow, ain't that purty? Very cool.

Jeez, look at those OBAs for everything except #3 and #4. 1&2 are bad enough, but they look like allstars compared to 7,8&9. And a .307 OBP from your #5 slot?

Ozzie's made a few comments that seems like he's starting to get it re OBP. If Quentin shows that he can get on base this spring, I hope Ozzie puts him on top of the order somewhere...but I won't hold my breath.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 14, 2007 6:06 AM CST up reply actions

those comments apply only to September

you know, when we wanted a few losses to get a high draft pick...

by The Wizard on Dec 14, 2007 2:43 PM CST up reply actions

Very nice, Cheat - thanks.

I still am less sanguine than "most everyone" the the 80-83 win projection - even though we sucked hard in t he batter's box our SP was very, very good with Mark/Javy/Jon doing a good job. I don't expect Javy to do as well, and think Mark could fall back a bit, too, leaving any SP improvement to #'s 3-5. (Scary...)

I also think Thomer might not do as well because of injury, though it would really be frightening if our offense is only as good as last year. I still look for 73-75 wins unless we upgrade CF/C/proven SP.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 14, 2007 8:18 AM CST up reply actions

Sweet Fancy Moses

If you look at the BA, OBP, and SLG for the average position player in the AL (not DH), and compare them to the table above, we were better than average in 1 out of 24 possible comparisons. Only Jermaine's (and whoever else played RF) SLG of .490 was better than the SLG of your average AL RF which is .448. We had below average production in all other areas.

by 3E8 on Dec 14, 2007 9:03 AM CST up reply actions

The mystery of 2007

Is how they won so many games.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 14, 2007 10:04 AM CST up reply actions

thanks cheat

glad you've been working on HTML, it would have taken me 3 hours to do that!

by bhoov on Dec 14, 2007 10:04 AM CST up reply actions

im a programmer

but much too lazy to do anything non-work related.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 14, 2007 10:06 AM CST up reply actions

dude......

CF was absolutely putrid. PUTRID! DISGUSTINGGGG!!!!

Cf's SLG was almost lower than OBP. You almost -never- see that. That, is amazingly bad. Maybe worse season by CF's ever.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 14, 2007 7:21 PM CST up reply actions

80-83 wins

is pretty much what many of us have been projecting (even from October 1st).

The problem being, with our core, 80 wins is gonna be 70 again very quickly... unless Floyd/Danks/Gio and the three offensive youngsters really surprise.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 13, 2007 11:26 PM CST reply actions

I took a look for my

"what to do this offseason" dealie.

The rundown (by my math):

C: 5.4
1B: 25.4
2B: 3.2
3B: -3.8
SS: -7.1
LF: 0.5
CF: -2.9
RF: 12.2
DH: 47.4

My post. It's got some other relevant stuff in it, like for this bit about Fuku:

"If he'll take a 3-4 year deal, I'm in for Fukudome over Ramirez, since translating Japanese baseball is a lot easier. According to Clay Davenport it's slightly better than AAA. We can stick Fukudome in center and get above average production (say .270/.350/.440) instantly without paying too much (4/40-50M?)."

This was my predicted lineup:

C AJ
1B Paulie
2B Richar
3B Fields
SS Uribe
LF Scott
CF Fukudome
DH Thome

And rotation:

1)Buehrle
2)Vazquez
3)Garland
4)Danks
5)Gio

That team I put at 80-85 wins, but I think that was probably a little bit of an underestimate. The current team is worse in center, better at short and slightly worse on the pitching staff. Hopefully a little better in the pen. So the current incarnation is probably about 78-82 whereas the one I wanted looked like 82-87.

Aaaand: we don't really know what Quentin is going to do until we discuss his injury in depths, figure out some comps and decide what that means in terms of his minor league numbers. He's not going to hit for power, but his BB/K ratio as a 22 year old looks great and his LD% is solid enough. I think his healthy prime looks like.290/.370/.470, which I would gladly take and is definitely worth Chris Carter.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 14, 2007 1:32 AM CST reply actions

Cameron vs Fukodome

With the knowledge that Fukodome didn't seem to keen on playing CF, Cameron has to be seen as an upgrade over the (hypothetical) signing of Fukodome, right? Cameron is almost certainly a much better defender than Fukodome and is (probably) a couple of runs better on the basepaths as well (that's not a knock on the Fuk-do-me, but more giving Cameron his due -- I believe he always rates as one of the best baserunners according to Bill James). So that would point to the bat, and I think Cameron is a hitter who would benefit (moreso than others) in a move to US Cellular. Obviously this isn't an exact science, but looking at his hit chart from the past two seasons, you could make the case for a good amount of flyballs balls in play that would've been homers at US Cellular.

by CWSKeith on Dec 14, 2007 8:01 AM CST up reply actions

The difference is going to be the OBP

if it turns out Fuku can hit for average in the states, his on base skills are going to make him tremendously valuable. Fukudome put himself in good position to be successful, btw. He's in the worst division in all of baseball and he gets to play the Astros, Cardinals, Pirates and Reds more than everyone else. Hell, even the Brewers have serious pitching issues.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 14, 2007 4:35 PM CST up reply actions