Another one bites the dust

Well, sounds like the Sox made one good move...

I'd rather invest money in Dye than Iguchi. They are the same age but Dye is more likely to provide an .800+ OPS than Iguchi.

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2007 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

MLB likely to punish post-2003 roiders...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3159943

The players who face possible suspensions:

Rondell White
Larry Bigbie
Ron Villone
Ryan Franklin
Cody McKay
Stephen Randolph
Jerry Hairston Jr.
Paul Lo Duca
Bart Miadich
Eric Gagne
Matt Herges
Brandon Donnelly
Howie Clark
Nook Logan

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2007 4:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

whats the point in punishing Randolph?

whatever drugs he took were clearly not performance ENHANCING. :)

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 18, 2007 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What a joke

The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, it put Cleveland State on probation.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 18, 2007 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

talk about low-hanging fruit...

or taking one for the team...
I'd rather see "see no evil" sportswriters suspended from the BBWA for malfeasance than these guys for using.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 18, 2007 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Q: how do you know the Bears

called a running play?
A: It's 1st and 10 or 3rd and long.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Dec 18, 2007 5:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Hobbit

Glorious. I can't believe that I needed a Sox website to inform me of Peter Jackson settling his beef with New Line, but it truly is great news. So thank you Wiz.

Now all we need is Sir Ian McKellen to reprise his role as Mithrandir and I will be a very happy nerd indeed.

Caulk the wagon.

by rebstock on Dec 18, 2007 5:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I am only disappointed that I have to wait 2+ years to see the result when I've been waiting 7 already.

I sincerely hope they retain most of the original cast members where appropriate.

I wonder who will play the role of Bard, the guy who shot the dragon at the end, and who will play the role of the Elf-King. They'll have to find lots of short actors to play the dwarves...

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 7:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I still have never read the Hobbit

I've been wanting too but haven't quite done it yet. Is the Hobbit long enough for them to make 2 movies out of it? I remember reading somewhere that they wanted to make a movie that took place between the Hobbit & LOTR

Bring Back BA

by marco054 on Dec 19, 2007 7:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They can easily do a movie on the Hobbit

They actually did a cartoon version I grew up watching and it was about 2 hours I believe.

Even though the LOTR books are longer than the Hobbit, they cut out a LOT from the books to fit the movie into 3 hours. I'm confident they can find enough to make a Hobbit fulll-length feature.

Now, you are right. They are making a movie, basically a Hobbit sequel, that will atke place between the Hobbit and the Fellowship of the Ring to explain the events between. Those events are not well known amongst average readers, and I admit, I hardly know all that goes on as Tolkien never really put together a cohesive piece of work to explain that lapse of time. Basically Bilbo goes back to the shire and chills out, Gandalf and the wizards go into Mirkwood forest and drive Sauron out of his stronghold there and he begins to amass his army in Mordor. Balin goes to Moria with his family of dwarves, and we all know what happens to them... Around this time Aragorn is reaching maturity and Saruman is learning about the presence of the Ring again. He begins to amass his army, etc.

That's basically what happens inbetween the books. I am not sure how they will do a full length feature on that, but I look forward to seeing it.

Know something I wished they hadn't cut out of the LOTR movies? Tom Bombadil, Goldenberry, and the Barrow wights. That part of the books I found really interesting.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 8:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Might have to read it

Theres also the Witch King goin around kickin the shit out of Gondor before the LOTR. The 2nd movie that ties in is probably goin to have the original cast in it but the hobbit who all can they have in it? Gandalf, Bilbo, Gollum/smeagol, and probably Saruman & Elrond

Bring Back BA

by marco054 on Dec 19, 2007 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

picking nits

It's been about a decade since I last picked it up, but I believe Gandalf, Saruman, radagast, et al drove Sauron out of Mirkwood during the Hobbit. That's why he leaves Bilbo and the dwarves in the middle of the book before showing up again at the end with the eagles, and not the Philadelphia variety.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 19, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way.

Best thread ever.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 19, 2007 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

indeed

LOTR rules!

by The Wizard on Dec 20, 2007 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

Gandalf does throw Sauron out of Dol Guldur during the Hobbit. As for what else happens before the Fellowship of the Ring that I haven't mentioned... I'm not sure. Maybe a little about Rohan, Wormtongue, Saruman, etc...

It was always my opinion that nothing terribly important happened between those novels.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On sunday

they had a lord of the rings marathon so I watched it all day and football. Afterwards i went to Wikipedia. I know not realiable for anything but interesting none the less. So i started lookin up all the LOTR shit mostly about the Witch King, Faramir, Eomer. They could do a battle of Boromir & Faramir fighting against the Witch King in Osgiliath i think.

Bring Back BA

by marco054 on Dec 19, 2007 12:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You rocked out the TNT Movie day...

I was excited when I saw that those were on the other day, because I was able to come in at my favorite part in the whole series. When Gandalf smotes the Bridge of Khazad-Dum against the Balrog.

But The Hobbit is a great read. I just read it for the first time a couple of months ago and was upset that I waited so long to.

And Shoeless, for some odd reason Jackson has something against Bombadil. I was astounded he cut that much from the film and just had Strider conveniently give the 4 half-lings their swords. But cuts had to be made, and explaining Bombadil is hard enough in the books let alone to do it on film.

But if timed right, the Sox hopefully will have risen from the ashes by 2010 and that year will really be something to look forward to.

Caulk the wagon.

by rebstock on Dec 19, 2007 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You guys

Are gay as hell... who gives a hoot about LOTR except flamers... LOTR 1 2 AND ESP. 3 may be the most homo erotic movies I have ever seen. I wasted 10 hours of my life watching those movies. It seems to me you guys wasted much more! I don't think I would like those movies even if I was on mushrooms.

Sox Man since October 2005

by Soulja Boy on Dec 19, 2007 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

biting tongue

Ok Hazy just repeat to yourself: It's only a matter of time before he's banned. Only a matter of time before he's banned.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 19, 2007 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but he's so entertaining!

the absurdities are unbelievable!

I still think he's a regular...

by The Wizard on Dec 20, 2007 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nerd-baiting

is SO last year...

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 19, 2007 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

SoB, I read the Hobbit/trilogy

long before you were born, boy. Geek boys we were in the 70's, but none of us were/are light in the loafers. Well, not in a Middle Eastern (Earthian?) sense.

And I didn't rush to see the movies, like my fellow boomers from high school, but I've been impressed just seeing the movies on TNT. Though I don't qvell over the panoramic scope, I don't begrudge folks their embrace of the movies.

Besides, when you point the finger, SoB, just remember 4 are pointing back at you. (Oooohhhh..)

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2007 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yikes

A tad homophobic are we? I'm sure you get confused by things like "books" and "normal speech" but please, spare us the gay bashing.

Caulk the wagon.

by rebstock on Dec 19, 2007 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lol

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soulja...

If you thought the first LOTR was "homo erotic," why did you go see the second? And then, after thinking the second LOTR was also "homo erotic," why did you see the third?

Seems like you might...actually like...homoerotic movies.

"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 19, 2007 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he needs another trilogy

I bet he'll watch the shit out of the Brokeback mountain trilogy and then finally come to a conclusion that it was gay

Bring Back BA

by marco054 on Dec 19, 2007 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It seems odd

that you had to see all 10 hours of the films to decide that you didn't like them.

Also, and this is off-topic to this current conversation, but I just noticed your sig. Were you not a White Sox fan until they were in the post-season in 2005?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw that too...

...and wondered the same thing.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 19, 2007 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

uh oh

the guy from south carolina with no obvious connection to the sox is calling out someone else as a fair weather fan. this should be interesting.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by the way, i don't care

i just enjoy the pissing contests people get into over who is a "truer" fan. i've been a sox fan my whole life. and each of three previous lives. so beat that.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't feel I need to explain my fandom

As I have already done here in the past when I first started posting here. But in case anyone forgot, I became a fan during the early post-season knock outs in the mid 90's when the Indians were becoming really good and Frank Thomas (my favorite player) was in his prime.

To elaborate though, growing up here in SC there aren't any nearby teams to root for. I guess the Braves... and I was a Braves and Sox fan for a long time until my interest in the Braves waned and I put all my interest in the Sox in 2004.

If anything, the championship in 2005 decreased my interest. The White Sox always appealed to me because of the Shoeless curse, the scandal, and their history of not winning it all. Once they won it all, I was ecstatic, but a few days later I was kinda sad. It was the end of an era in my life.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hey, hey

shoeless may have family connections with shoeless joe!

by The Wizard on Dec 19, 2007 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah...

Joseph Jackson is a distant relative of mine. Grew up just a hop skip and a jump away :)

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No no no

I know you guys know who "Sox Man" is... the only embarrassment from 2005... anyone... In all honesty I have been a die hard sox fan since Lyle Mouton was roaming right field, when lance "one dawg" johnson was stealing bases, Frank was the future at 25 on upper deck baseball cards, and ron karkovice was the prettiest man in baseball. I almost forgot... Robin Ventura was awesome for us until he tore his ankle up at home plate. Back to sox man this fruit cake is the same guy that wears a bat man suit with sox hanging off of his ears. I never saw him until the sox were in the world series. As for LOTR I take back that the first 2 were homo erotic... the last one was though when those 2 hobbits were undressing each other with their eyes, a part that should have been edited out because it had nothing to do with carrying the story any further. click blaw!

Sox Man since October 2005

by Soulja Boy on Dec 20, 2007 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

SB

No one is telling you your opinion regarding the movie isn't valid. You're certainly entitled to it. It's just when you start spewing gems like "flamer" that you cross the line.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 20, 2007 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Im sorry about the "flamer" comment

I meant to say flame thrower.

Sox Man since October 2005

by Soulja Boy on Dec 21, 2007 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

mckellen was awesome!

the white rider must ride again!

by The Wizard on Dec 20, 2007 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Peter Jackson was better as a fatty

and Im glad hes going through with the movies after saying for years he wouldnt.

"I'm not a 6-year-old." -Brian Nikola "Ungrindy" Anderson

by omnipotent grab on Dec 18, 2007 6:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

so, what do you think went wrong with the bears?

was that defensive coach they fired?

maybe the lack of a running game?

by The Wizard on Dec 18, 2007 6:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mets sign Matt Wise to 1-year, $1.2 million deal

Matt Wise's one-year deal with the Mets is worth $1.2 million.
It's a partially guaranteed deal. He'll receive $750,000 if he's cut by the team during spring training. The $1.2 million is $200,000 more than he made with the Brewers last year.

How do you not sign Wise for that money?

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2007 7:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sox Shopping Cabrera

http://mlb-rumors.blogspot.com/2007/12/white-sox-shopping-cabrera.html

by tbone328 on Dec 18, 2007 7:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I would bet SC's nutes this is horseshit

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 18, 2007 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He even links his source...

dopey Phil Rogers. Rogers first mentioned the Orlando Cabrera for Julio Lugo and Coco Crisp swap.

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2007 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here is the quote...

Phil Rogers wrote:

If Cabrera really is sincere about wanting to get onto the free-agent market the Sox might as well know that as soon as possible. It's possible that they could get Coco Crisp and Julio Lugo from Boston for Cabrera, or that they might get a rich package of prospects from the Cubs and let Juan Uribe play shortstop for another year.

by SSH2005 on Dec 18, 2007 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually,

I'd do that deal....if we added a Sweeney and an Aardsma and...etc, that deal might get done.....you then have Lugo and Crisp at the top if you wish. You lose a little D at shortstop, but I still make that deal.

by dantesox on Dec 19, 2007 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Let's hope it's horseshit!

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 7:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Now THIS is effin' hilarious, wiz:

Q: What do the Chicago Bears and Billy Graham have in common?

A: They both can make 70,000 people stand up and yell ''Jesus Christ!''

I laughed my ass off - in a bitter, cruel manner.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 18, 2007 7:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

we're bitter, cruel guys!

:p

by The Wizard on Dec 20, 2007 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

another injunction...

link

by The Wizard on Dec 18, 2007 7:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Welcome to DC, Elijah!

Such a Biblical name for such a Devilsih guy. Should've stayed with his namesake.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 18, 2007 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this guy's dynamite

look at his record, and he's only 22...

by The Wizard on Dec 18, 2007 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

man,

when did this guy ever have time to play baseball?

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 18, 2007 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That news about the Hobbit...

Is the best news I've heard all day, and I've had two interviews at two separate U of C labs today.

It's been a good day.

by Stealfirstbase on Dec 18, 2007 9:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Didn't have to use your AK?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2007 5:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

awesome!!

It took me a minute, but then I got the reference. I LOL'ed.

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 19, 2007 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

look at you....

referencing some old school rap!

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The guy needs help.

Hopefully Manny Acta can be the man. Dukes and his career will come to a really bad end if this continues.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 19, 2007 6:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, to Wiz's "this guy's dynamite."

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 19, 2007 6:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good God

why is it only wednesday..... i could have sworn when i first woke up it was saturday.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 7:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

My Christmas Wish List

KW stop pouting
Make some sort of decision on Joe Crede
Gavin Floyd has at least a 4.50 ERA with 10 wins.
Address the CF situation, say whether its a battle between owens, BA, and sweeney, or sign someone else.
John Danks post a near 4.25 era with 10-12 wins.
Mike Macdougal learn how to throw strikes.
Scott Linebrink pitch similar to his days in San Diego.
Jose Contreras pitch like he did in September.
Jermaine Dye stay healthy and stay away from spider bites.
Give DJ some low level office job so hes not in the booth anymore.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 8:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hawk?

11. Hawk join DJ at some low level office job so hes no in the booth anymore

Bring Back BA

by marco054 on Dec 19, 2007 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Enjoy your coal.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

always so negative

wheres you're christmas cheer?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny if The Grinch Who Stole Christmas.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but

the grinch grows a heart and then gives everything back to the whos. will kenny follow suit?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jame Lynn Spears pregnant...

and no, it's not mine Thank goodness!

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 8:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

but if its Elijah Dukes',

no one will be surprised

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 19, 2007 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or Lance Briggs

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 19, 2007 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Now THAT was good and clever.

Damn, Christmas is going to be pretty fallow re: baseball movement. When we have a Britney's Sister post it's getting bad.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2007 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

trailer trash

"Jamie Lynn plans to raise the baby in her home state of Louisiana -- "so it can have a normal family life.""

... like that helped her!

Setting the bar lower than her sister, a tough act.

by ruffster on Dec 19, 2007 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Orlando Cabrera

Why would the white sox want Julio Lugo and Coco crisp? that would be a horrible trade unless boston pays all of lugo's contract. the fleece factor has a good piece on that rumor:

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2007/12/19/orlando-cabrera-heading-out/

by em3 on Dec 19, 2007 9:31 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's just one of Phil Rogers stupid ideas...

that he pulled out of his ass.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that trade makes little sense.

it's awful. Coco Crisp is not really an upgrade over our other options and Cabrera would be a better option at SS than Lugo.

That is unless Lugo is acquired to play 2B.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cardinals sign infielder D'Angelo Jimenez...

Link.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 9:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The free agent market is sickening...

when Kyle Lohse is receiving 4-year contract offers from the Phillies and Mets.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 9:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Unsubstantiated rumor -- Uribe for Jay Payton?

I saw this big-time rumor at SoxTalk.

Here is a link to the source of the rumor at Orioles Hangout.

What a putrid trade this would be, especially if Jay Payton then became our starting CF'er. I just hope there is no truth to this rumor due to the horrible source of it.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 10:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

puke

no thanks.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The scary thing is...

that it makes some sense for the Orioles.

All they have at SS now after trading Miguel Tejada is Brandon Fahey and Luis Hernandez.

Be afraid... be very afraid.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

how about

we just give them uribe and they take the salary, and we get a bag of balls or a few new towels?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

doesn't every trade proposed by a fan

make "some sense" for the team they root for?

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

let's get a rumor started

according to merkin we need pitching. so, jerry owens, juan uribe, david aardsma, a box of bats, some grass seed, and PTBNL (oney guillen once he's eligible) for erik bedard. that trade makes some sense for us, i think.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

north parks finest

no way!!! we cant get rid of oney!! hes untouchable just like jerry manuels kid was untouchable when he was with us!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, but it's not like Uribe...

has much trade value anyways. It's not like the fan is proposing Jay Payton for Orlando Cabrera. He is proposing a trade of a scrub for a scrub.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On the surface...

it would be an almost even swap of salaries.

Juan Uribe: 1 year @ $4.5 million
Jay Payton: 1 year @ $5.0 million

It's too bad that Payton sucks hardcore.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather...

have Uribe.

That trade makes zero sense for the Sox. I'd bet they could find a better outfielder for a lot cheaper by just watching the waiver wires and looking at minor-league free agents.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or looking at charlotte

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't think that Kenny...

would make this trade either, but this offseason is making him look pretty foolish so far.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's not that awful of a trade

assuming a few things: jerry owens is your starting CF and payton is platooned with him against lefties. i don't think it's okay for us to assume that is how he would be used, though. and you could, as jerry points out, do better looking elsewhere.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's a pretty awful trade...

If possible, Kenny should be trying to dump Uribe's entire salary by taking trash in return... not expensive trash.

He should just try to free up Uribe's $4.5 million salary so he can use that to sign a CF'er.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point about Payton vs. LHP though...

Jay Payton (Career stats vs. LHP): .287 AVG / .347 OBP / .456 SLG / .803 OPS

He has always hit lefties pretty well, including the past two seasons.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if possible is the key phrase

unfortunately, i don't see much desperation out there for a SS. certainly not at that price. unless something changes, i think you need to ratchet down your expectations. this is the time for something KW and the sox major league scouts have had success with in the past: finding a player who is going to rebound and is more useful than what they send the other way. is payton that? i don't think so. but i don't see a salary dump happening so he's the sort of player we'd be looking at.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Sox...

can't get anything even a little useful for Uribe, they should just hold onto him. They don't have any other backup shortstops, anyway.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 10:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

jason bourgeois for a start

and, frankly, cabrera is not the sort of player who needs much backing up. wasting $4.5 million on one is ridiculous and will only cause ozzie to use him.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bourgeois...

hasn't played shortstop in anything other than an emergency capacity since 2003.

No matter who the backup is, whether it's Pablo Ozuna or someone they pick up off the scrap heap, Guillen will find a way to use him. It might as well be someone who knows what he's doing out there.

Clearly Williams doesn't find that $4.5 million to be onerous, otherwise Uribe would have been non-tendered. As you say, Williams won't be looking to dump him for nothing.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i doubt it

cabrera is a horse. he doesn't like offdays. his "backups" play about 100 innings a year. when fully healthy and when his backup stunk (cintron), like in 2007, ozzie used uribe in the same way. and ozzie himself was a similar SS in that he played almost all the time. there's absolutely no need to provide an expensive backup to cabrera, especially when there's some many other cheap options out there and already on the roster. it's an absolutely colossal waste of money to have someone on the roster who should only play 100 innings a year and, if they play more than that, hurt the team because the starter is that much better.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

good point

i had not considered this. I had originally thought keeping Uribe as a backup was a decent idea. His salary can be put to better use.

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 19, 2007 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thank you larry

ozzie will most definitely use uribe too much if hes on the team. he loves that damn rotation where he has to "rest" all of his regulars. we've all seen too many sunday lineups.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 11:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That fact that...

the Blue Jays signed David Eckstein to a 1-year, $4.5 million deal and that the Twins signed Adam Everett to a 1-year, $2.8 million deal sure doesn't help Kenny's ability to trade Uribe.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

the market for SS has really changed (or at least played out differently than expected) since the sox made their moves to sign uribe and trade for cabrera. the reason KW signed uribe was as insurance and because a contract like that looked like it would have been easy to flip. things change.

if we were a contending team, retaining uribe would be a decent idea because he would provide good insurance against injuries and is a pretty legit guy to have on your bench. could be worth a win and that could be the difference between playoffs and sitting at home. but, on our team, what's the point? $4.5 million for maybe a win? so what? cabrera should play everyday and we've got cheaper backups already at the other positions uribe could be used at.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Uribe...

was signed beyond 2008, I'd agree with you that it doesn't make sense to keep him. But for 2008 only? Who cares?

You're probably right in that he'll get moved for someone else's problem - if not Jay Payton, it'll be someone like Jay Payton. And we'll like whoever Williams gets about as much as Uribe is liked now.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i care

waste of money. if they're going to suck, there's no need to spend money and waste a roster spot doing it. that spot should go to jason bourgeois. the playing time should go to him or fields or richar or cabrera, not some guy who 1) doesn't deserve it because he isn't as good as those guys and 2) would largely be taking time from young guys who would benefit from playing more.

at least jay payton obstensibly fills a small need. uribe is totally redundant on this team.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You put Jay Payton...

on the Sox roster, and you have the same problem. He's just another waste-of-space veteran that Guillen will give way too much playing time to.

Were it me, I'd just go ahead and trade Cabrera for a halfway-decent prospect, but I know that's not what Williams will do.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but at least

some of the time payton were playing, he'd be an improvement over the player he was replacing. and we've got far more injury worries with the players someone like payton would be backing up. not the case with uribe.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and are you actually suggesting

that jerry owens should be getting lots of playing time? richar should. fields should. cabrera should. what do we care if jerry owens doesn't play because some of the playing time that a jay payton type were to get was in center? lesser of two evils. by far.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 11:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

Owens is (relatively) young and cheap. The Sox should at least give him a full season to show that he definitely sucks, so that they can just cut bait on him when he's arb-eligible in 2009.

Or, alternatively, he actually shows that he has some use, which would just be a nice bonus.

I don't care about 2008 at all. The Sox could lose 120 games, for all I care. For me, the point is to look at the young(ish) guys and see how they can build the next contending team.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you need a full season to tell you that?

let's just bring back andy gonzalez, too. i think we need to make sure that he really is the non-prospect he showed he was last year. and we certainly didn't give mike myers enough of an opportunity. too small of a sample size for my tastes. let's bring back bukvich. he couldn't possibly be that bad, could he? let's check just to make sure.

if you don't care and want to look at the youngish guys, i have no idea why you'd want uribe - who ozzie would certainly find a way to get into the lineup at the expense of actual prospects like richar and fields and at the roster expense of someone like bourgeois. prevent ozzie from having his favorite toys. give him toys that he can't play with quite so much at the expense of the future.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

At least...

Owens showed something in the minors, which is more than someone like Andy Gonzalez ever did.

Ryan Bukvich and Mike Myers aren't young.

But it wouldn't bother me at all if the Sox dumped, say, Pablo Ozuna so they could keep Jason Bourgeois.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you're like the kid

who keeps touching the hot stove, just to make sure it's still hot.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

except in this case there's very little harm to be had in giving Owens a full-time job. So they might lose 92 games instead of 90 - I really don't care.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if we had lost 92 instead of 90 this year

instead of the no. 8 pick, we'd have the no. 5 pick

damn bullpen, they woke up in some games in september
dammit...

by The Wizard on Dec 19, 2007 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

would I be wrong to...

trade Uribe for a low A/AA prospect?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that would have been the plan

if people actually wanted a SS. we need someone to blow out their knee "washing their car" this offseason before such a deal would be likely to get done.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soooooo, what teams need a SS?

Orioles...
...
...
...

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm not sure i'd even include the orioles

i don't think they care much about next year, either.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose the

Cubs.

by palehose67 on Dec 19, 2007 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Even though he sucks, I think the Cubs...

really like Ryan Theriot.

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's all about the jersey sales

and the ladies. don't forget the ladies.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have they ever seen

Juan swinging that turkey leg?

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 19, 2007 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Where is that?

Someone post it.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 19, 2007 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BAM!

you guys are free to take it, y'know.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 19, 2007 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure I've ever

seen anything funnier than that. How is that not sexy to the ladies?

by palehose67 on Dec 19, 2007 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I love this image

by BustedFlush on Dec 19, 2007 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

a fat, dark-skinned dominican

isn't going to play well with the females who populate wrigleyville.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Paraphrasing.

Mr. McGuire: Ben, I want to say two words to you. Just two words.

Benjamin: Yes, sir.

Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?

Benjamin: Yes, I am.

Mr. McGuire: Jersey Sales.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 19, 2007 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cool.

just making sure i wasn't the only one who thinks dumping Uribe (who's salary and uselessness and tendency to block a younger, better player) in exchange for a prospect is a great idea

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think dumping Uribe

for a bag of balls is a step in the right direction.

Let's hope he doesn't get tangles up in any off-season murder capers in the homeland.

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 19, 2007 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"tangles"

- make that "tangled" (ugh)

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 19, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no, lets hope for that

his contract has to be void if hes in jail.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Astros and Rangers agressively pursuing Prior...

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7581498

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 12:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Aaron Cunningham and Chris Carter...

Link:

Outfielder Aaron Cunningham, 21, is a "poor man's Aaron Rowand," one scout says, improving every year and projecting as no worse than a fourth outfielder.

First baseman Chris Carter, 21, is a rare right-handed power-hitting prospect, described by another scout as "one of the most improved players I've seen in the past two years."

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 12:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

wait

i though aaron rowand was a fourth outfielder. if he's a poor man's rowand, wouldn't that make him less than a fourth outfielder? this whole fourth outfielder thing is really confusing.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cheat

didn't you call Cunningham a "poor man's Aaron Rowand" at BTF?

Cheat = unnamed scout?

by CWSKeith on Dec 19, 2007 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is "poor man's Aaron Rowand"...

a compliment or an insult? I can't tell.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd guess a compliment

as in a guy who does a lot well but nothing great.

by CWSKeith on Dec 19, 2007 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

me either

i think it depends upon who is saying it.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

in this market

a poor man's Rowand could still get mighty rich

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 19, 2007 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No,

but the comparison is apt. I said he would be a Byrnes/Rowand-type in the big leagues, trading some defense for plate discipline.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 19, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Prospects improve upon leaving the Sox

Sox = bad farm system, players must be bad.

D'Backs and A's have good systems, ergo players like Carter and Cunningham must be good (since they are now in those systems).

by hitlesswonder on Dec 19, 2007 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

interesting point

I wish that there was a way to have talent evaluators evaluate players without knowing what team they are affiliated with. I bet there is definitely a measure of organizational bias.

Bears eat beets.

by Nordhagen on Dec 19, 2007 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Crede to the Dodgers?

Ken Rosenthal wrote:

Even after adding Kuroda, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti says that his focus remains on pitching. A trade for a third baseman might be more likely in spring training, when the Dodgers could judge whether the Cardinals' Scott Rolen, Rangers' Hank Blalock and White Sox's Joe Crede are sufficiently recovered from injuries. Andy LaRoche and Nomar Garciaparra are the team's current options at third.

How awesome would a Crede for Pierre trade be?

**pukes**

by SSH2005 on Dec 19, 2007 12:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

again, what?

they've got laroche and nomar. why do they want another 3B? someone explain this to me.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure Nomar can play 3B anymore

But LaRoche over Crede makes a lot more sense.

Nomar needs as little physical activity as possible (aside from swinging a bat and running around bases)

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 19, 2007 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he's fine as a backup

which is what he'd be doing next year, backing up both laroche and loney.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rumor had it...

that Garciaparra is toast and the Dodgers didn't want to give the 3B job to an "unproven" guy, as they already had Ethier, Kemp, Loney, and Martin in the lineup.

Supposedly the Dodger brass didn't think a lineup with five young guys could win. But this was all before they got Andruw Jones, so now they might have enough "veteran presence" to keep the likes of Plaschke happy.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 19, 2007 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nomar is pretty much toast

that's no rumor. but he's still warm enough to be a back-up.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unrelated

In my Winter break boredom I created a team on my EA Sports MVP Baseball 05 game based on the Mitchell Report replacing the Orioles team, since so many of them were already on that team anyway.

Since SSH is so fond of rosters, I'll share if anyone cares.

Roberts 2b
Tejada ss
Sheffield rf
Bonds dh
Guillen lf
Glaus 3b
Giambi 1b
Matthews Jr. cf
Lo Duca C
Clemens
Pettite
K. Brown
Byrd
Villone (slim pickings for a decent fifth starter)

bull pen:
stanton
schoeneweis
barcik
mercker (had to, too funny)
grimsley
gagne

bench:
hairston jr.
bigbie
vina
zaun
and nook logan

This ought to take the league by storm!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 19, 2007 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

winter break

god i miss that.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's now called "downsizing"

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2007 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh

so i must have gotten my winter break in august then.....
hahahahah.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then your new 40 hr/week gig

is looking for a new one, Deac. (Though ain't much happinin' this time of year.) You OK?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2007 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

its all good

it only took me about a month to land a job I wanted, application development is a pretty easy area to find a job in once you have some real work experience.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 19, 2007 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs