Gio vs. DLS

by bhoov on Dec 19, 2007 11:47 AM CST

Interesting discussion of Gio vs. DLS over at Sickels site. It's not his opinions but part of the community projection they're doing over there. They ranked DLS the #34 prospect in baseball. Gio hasn't been ranked yet, but will probably wind up top 40 or so. Interestingly the AL Central is noticeably weak with only guys that played very little (Porcello and Moustakas) ahead of DLS.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2007/12/18/222422/57

I think the oft repeated mantra that we are competing against teams with loaded farm systems no longer applies. Now if we switch that mantra to teams with young talent (esp. Cleveland) it may be accurate. One intersting development is that MCab hasn't been signed long term and I haven't even heard talk of negotiations.

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may be accurate?

i think it is accurate. all the teams in our division have some premium young talent on their major league rosters. we've got nothing like it. and their farm systems are still all better than ours, perhaps with the debatable exception of detroit.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 11:54 AM CST reply actions

We've had this discussion before

Their players have graduated to the bigs or been traded for some experienced talent (see Detroit). We have not done that to Detroit/Cleve/Minny's extent. And look out for KC - they're finally getting something going there.

We're not ranked 29th for nuthin'.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 19, 2007 11:57 AM CST reply actions

KC has nothing going in their farm

system like we do. Luke Hochevar hasn't panned out and Moustakas is a ways away. Butler so far hasn't been the player they thought, same with Gordon.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 19, 2007 1:24 PM CST up reply actions

hasn't panned out?

not the most patient man in the world, are you colin.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 1:28 PM CST up reply actions

Granted, just being taken

#1 overall means he'll probably be a major league pitcher somewhere somehow, but he was supposed to be l33t. Isn't that not panning out? He hasn't really been successful and his star is considerable diminished. I mean it happens to prospects all the time, but I was just warning against counting Hochevar as one of the Royals' oh-shit-watch-out-here-he-comes types. They don't really have any. We don't either, but that's the point.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 19, 2007 1:36 PM CST up reply actions

i only read english

i have no idea what you were attempting to communicate there. the guy was drafted last year. he's played one season of pro ball. he was never supposed to be an ace. i see nothing that he's done that should diminish his star unless people were attaching ridiculous expectations to him. he's still the very good prospect he always was.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

Your attacking the wrong statment larry

Butler hit .292/.347/.447 in the majors as a 21 year old. I want to know how that is disappointing for someone who was drafted 4 spots ahead of Josh Fields (.244/.308/.480 in a similar number of ABs at age 24).

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 19, 2007 1:48 PM CST up reply actions

i didn't know who "they" were

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 1:52 PM CST up reply actions

he wasn't supposed to be an ace?

i didn't know that.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 19, 2007 1:54 PM CST up reply actions

there's a reason

he was drafted 40th overall in 2005 and the royals were roundly criticized for taking him #1 in 2006. he's got nice stuff but he's always profiled as a #2.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 2:00 PM CST up reply actions

He was

a top 10 talent in '05, but his bonus demands made him slide... I wanted the Sox to take him (over what would become Broadway) at 15.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 19, 2007 2:03 PM CST up reply actions

sure

but he wasn't considered an ace. he wouldn't have dropped that far if teams with the big dollars thought he was.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 2:05 PM CST up reply actions

I don't want to get into a semantical debate here

about what an ace is, but I think Hochevar was regarded (heading into the 2005 draft) as the best pitcher available in an (admittedly) weak draft (and by that I mean how it was viewed at the time, not by who has or hasn't panned out). The first two pitchers that went in that draft were Ricardo Romero and Wade Townsend, and I don't think anybody would have made the argument that those two were more 'highly thought of' than Hochevar was. The only other guy you could probably make an argument for is Mike Pelfrey, IMO.

by CWSKeith on Dec 19, 2007 2:14 PM CST up reply actions

right

as in, he wasn't considered an ace. people seem to confuse draft position or draft "ranking" with ability. a guy who is the seventh best player in a draft could be a great player or just a pretty good one, depending upon who the six ahead of him are. hochevar should not be, and never was by scouts, considered to be a potential ace.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 2:19 PM CST up reply actions

LARRY! LARRY LARRY

If I was grading your post as an English teacher you would get a big fat F for FAILURE! You either don't care anymore or your shift buttons are broken. Don't forget to capitalize any word that starts a sentence and "i". For the rest of you... why argue over which players are going to be studs and which one's suck. I have told you guys time and time again you can not judge a player by looking up his stats on baseball prosuctus. Unless you guys are out at all these minor league games with radar guns you are all full of sh1t.

Sox Man since October 2005

by Soulja Boy on Dec 20, 2007 7:48 PM CST up reply actions

uhm...

Is this guy for real?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 21, 2007 6:59 AM CST up reply actions

not only is he real,

he enjoys eating dog shit.

SB: "Dog shit tastes awful. I thought so the first two times I ate it; the third time was the worst. I can't believe I wasted so much time eating dog shit."

by Toonderstrook on Dec 21, 2007 12:03 PM CST up reply actions

speaking of English teachers...

"...which one's suck."

This should of course be stated: "which ones suck."

The apostrophe denotes possession or in the case of contractions, missing letters and is often misused to denote plurals. Don't beat yourself up though, it's a common mistake.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 24, 2007 6:24 PM CST up reply actions

I know this is a few days after the fact...

... but it's the holidays, cut a guy some slack.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 24, 2007 6:25 PM CST up reply actions

I was one of the few to put Gio

ahead of DLS and it's pretty much strictly as a matter of expected value. DLS' upside is not so much higher than Gio's that it overwhelms the fact that Gio can be a starter right now in the big leagues.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 19, 2007 1:28 PM CST reply actions

I'd be interested to see

where Detroit's farm system ranks now that they've traded off a significant portion of it.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 19, 2007 1:34 PM CST reply actions

I also think you're (larry)

greatly overrating Cleveland's, KC's and Minnesota's systems. I think we have a better system than them, and Goldstein's analysis would suggest that he agrees. Some of them might have more depth than us, but we have two prospects (Gio and DLS) that are better than anyone except Porcello and maybe Moustakas.

Now that the Tigs traded Maybin and others I would actually say we have the best system in the AL Central. The Indians have Miller, Tigs have Porcello, Royals have Hochevar and Moustakas, Twins a couple of decent pitchers. That's basically it for high end talent. Most observers have or will have Gio and DLS as better than all those guys except Porcello and in some cases Moustakas. At the very least we are on an even par presently. Unfortunately that still puts us in the bottom 1/3 of MLB systems.

by bhoov on Dec 19, 2007 4:26 PM CST reply actions

i'm "greatly overrating" them

by saying they're better than the sox? if you're conceding that "at the very least we are on an even par," then i think you're reading what you want into what i wrote so you can argue.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 4:38 PM CST up reply actions

Wow! larry accusing someone

of writing something just so they can argue? Just a wee bit of pot calling the kettle black I think. But just to prove you wrong I'll drop the "greatly" and leave it as overrating. It was a bit of hyperbole.

by bhoov on Dec 19, 2007 5:00 PM CST up reply actions

i don't misstate people's positions

in order to argue because i don't appreciate it when people do it to me.

by larry on Dec 19, 2007 5:06 PM CST up reply actions

No you're right, actually

your shtick is more along the lines of searching desperately for inconsequential inconsistencies upon which to base arguments and then proceeding to doggedly reply to every response until your antagonist gives up.

by bhoov on Dec 19, 2007 9:39 PM CST up reply actions

Gentlemen...

Where's the good will toward men? Tis the Offseason!

by hitlesswonder on Dec 19, 2007 9:54 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe that's why we're a little testy

This tends to be the time when things start taking shape that directly lead to the White Sox's future failures.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 20, 2007 9:56 AM CST up reply actions

Pass the eggnog.

DRINK!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 20, 2007 10:57 AM CST up reply actions

I won't wholly disagree there

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 20, 2007 9:55 AM CST up reply actions

WAS THAT...

A JEWISH JOKE??? SHTICK... I know Larry's last name is David but that was went too far...

Sox Man since October 2005

by Soulja Boy on Dec 20, 2007 7:52 PM CST up reply actions

DLS?

is DLS supposed to start in High A or AA this year?? does anyone know or have any video on him? i've never seen him throw and would like to get a look.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Dec 21, 2007 7:39 AM CST reply actions