White Sox sign Alexei Ramirez to 4-year deal

by The Cheat on Dec 21, 2007 5:18 PM CST in News Comment 113 comments

I don't even know what to say. We were excited about the prospects of signing Ramirez (video at link) when we first heard about his availability, but cautioned that if he wasn't a major league player today, as a 26 year old, he would never be one.

The same holds true today, except now Ramirez has asked/flunked out of the Dominican Winter League after collecting just 1 hit in 14 at bats. In other words, he seems even less likely to be a major league talent now than he did a few months ago.

4 years seems like an awful lot to guarantee to a guy about whom we know (almost) nothing. But we can't really be sure until we see him play. Here's hoping he's able to be a utility player at the very least.

Update [2007-12-21 20:43:27 by thewizardsofoz]:

[Scott Merkin]:

Two baseball sources have confirmed to MLB.com that the White Sox have agreed in principle on a four-year, $4.75 million deal with Alexei Ramirez. The versatile Cuban exile still has to pass a physical, and an official announcement from the team probably won't come until after the New Year.

Ramirez, whose age is listed at 26, was a natural shortstop in Cuba but also can play second base and center field. His arrival does not necessarily mean that the White Sox are done pursuing a veteran outfielder, as Ramirez may need some time in the Minors to prepare himself for the big leagues.

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Is this a good thing?

Never heard of the guy....

by stanchar on Dec 21, 2007 5:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

start here

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=597

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and past SSS discussion

http://www.southsidesox.com/story/2007/9/19/1542/14563

i wonder how accurate my prediction for salary was. i considered him as a SS in there and the market for that collapsed so, knowing what i know now, i'd have dropped that estimate a good bit. seems like the sox would want him to play center, though (unless richar or cabrera is on the block, which seems unlikely). lots of unknowns with ramirez.

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't you already call Ramirez a AAA player?

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not two days ago, i believe

i don't see him being much other than that next year. maybe arrives later in the season to be utility. best case scenario is him being a starter (somewhere) in 2009.

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow. I love the

last sentence: "The couple has two small children, Alexei, Jr., and Alexia." Kind of like George Foreman.

by palehose67 on Dec 21, 2007 5:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

kind of like ozzie guillen

by Jbasic89 on Dec 21, 2007 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hope the scouts are right on this one

he's obviously a largely unknown quantity to just about everyone. similar players (at least similar looking statistically and from cuba) have been signed by teams and pretty much been busts.

it's certainly a heck of a lot more exciting signing than cameron would be. he's still young. can play multiple positions. i'll be in interested to see the financial terms.

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 5:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

OK, I'm cross-posting

I was surprised he got 4 years...did he get a no-trade clause too? Maybe Linebrink's is the Sox new standard contract.

Actually, that number of years might be OK if the money per year isn't too high. He'll probably need a year in AAA before he could contribute, if he ever will.

Here's hoping Ramirez beats the odds and can play some big league ball.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 21, 2007 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

ya, did they really have to go 4 yrs?

and lets hope they aren't counting on him for this year...

Aren't the Cuban leagues heavy on offense to skew his HR #'s?

Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!

by Nordhagen on Dec 21, 2007 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cuban league is an offensive joke

guys rake there. i don't know how valuable looking at his numbers will be. there pretty much are no comps to make, considering just about no cuban hitters have made the transition successfully to MLB.

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

think he'd be as good as Betancourt?

that'd make a great utility guy, esp if he can play IF and OF

Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!

by Nordhagen on Dec 21, 2007 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no real idea

i saw him play in the WBC and he looked fine. but translating that stuff is hard. if he's a betancourt, that would be good.

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

betancourt

[MLBTR]:

As a means of comparison, Yuniesky Betancourt signed for four years and $2.826MM in January of 2005. Kendry Morales signed a four-year deal worth around $10MM in December of 2004.

by The Wizard on Dec 21, 2007 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

morales' cuban numbers are probably the best comp

though he's younger and plays less positions.

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So much for

"The Sox are so predictable". Seriously though this might be the most surprising signing since what Albert Belle? I don't think any of us saw this coming.

by bhoov on Dec 21, 2007 5:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not surprised by the signing

so much as I am by the timing of the signing. I expected him to force a bidding war if he was a major league talent. But since all he elicited was a bunch of teams kicking the the tires, I expected him to go unsigned for another month or more.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 21, 2007 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

I mean we kicked around whether we though signing him was a good idea. But I didn't think anybody really though that WE would sign him. Well maybe that was just my interpretation. But I am really surprised.

by bhoov on Dec 21, 2007 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

when i saw it, i wasn't shocked

i guess i'm sort of surprised - probably at the timing, like you said - but the early talk was that the sox would be a frontrunner because of the contreras and jaime torres connection.

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His DWL stats

So, I'm going to go ahead and not worry about those. It's 14 ABs and this was probably a pretty tumultuous time in his life.

It's ridiculous, but the biggest dark cloud to me is that the Sox were able to sign him -- I would think if he really looked special the BoSox or Yankees or LAA would have grabbed him.

It will be interesting to see if he can actually play SS and or CF competently. That would be useful, and his bat wouldn't have to great at those positions.

Obviously, everything hinges on the money. If they didn't go overboard, then I think it's an OK gamble for a talent starved organization.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 21, 2007 5:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yeah

but the biggest dark cloud to me is that the Sox were able to sign him

It's not that the Sox signed him, it's the relative lack of interest from teams with good international scouting and the means to win a bidding war for a major league talent.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 21, 2007 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

isn't that similar to Iguchi's situation?

Wasn't he looking for a Kaz Matsui contract but settled for the Sox' offer due to lack of interest elsewhere?

Anyway, this is something I welcome from Kenny. I look forward to seeing what Ramirez can do in the majors. I'd still like to see if Cameron would take a cheap one-year deal, but this is an option beyond Jerry Owens. Let us hope some of his power came with him off of the island.

by asinwreck on Dec 21, 2007 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was against the Iguchi signing as well

though that had as much to do with Placido Polanco being available (earlier in the off-season) than his unknown talent.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 21, 2007 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Same with Shingo Takatsu

Bunch of people kicking tires...and then the Sox put in a lowball offer of $500k with a $2 million option. Wound up being worth it.

by BlackBetsy on Dec 21, 2007 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yankees learned their lesson

with yobal duenas.

what would those teams do with him? the angels have like 50 outfielders and no need for a middle infielder. neither the yankees nor the red sox have a need for him right now, either.

by larry on Dec 21, 2007 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

holy crap!

our scouts must've seen something good...

by The Wizard on Dec 21, 2007 5:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Looks like this means Owens

will be in center.

"Alexei got a good deal and he'll be looking for a starting roster spot during spring training with the White Sox," said the source. "He can play multiple positions, so his chances are good." -from the ESPN article.

If he's not guaranteed a spot and Cuban ball is really like A-ball, this has a pretty good chance of ending poorly. It'll be pretty obvious either way whether or not he's good enough, because he's 26 and he's already what he's going to be. It'll be funny if he starts in Charlotte and pushes BA and Sweeney to right and left, though. If Ramirez flops too, let's call it The Outfield of the Future.

Either way, as long as it isn't more than a couple mil a year, this is a lottery ticket worth buying from a Sox fan perspective.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 6:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Is it a Cuban 26? Has age been verified?

He might be 28 - not that I care, but I'd rather go overboard for a 30 y/o Fuku with a track record and birth papers than a 26 y/o Cubano expected to light up AAA.

But, by God, it allows us to talk about something over the Christmas break other than the Spears pregnancy.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2007 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Expected to light up AAA

with his smile, right?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, considering the lack of interest

this is a KW signature move. I assume this will be the end of the moves unless Kenny is moved by an unexpected offer, so I think we can probably start thinking about judging his plan as a whole.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 7:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

did he swim from cuba to the dominican?

maybe this is kenny's 'big fish' move!

by The Wizard on Dec 21, 2007 7:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Do we have any guesses...

about the money? Someone on Soxtalk said Levine mentioned 4 years/$4.75 million -- that seems like it'd be a bad deal for Ramirez.

In any case, this move is... interesting. I find myself with similar sentiments to Cheat and hitless, as in -- if this guy was really that good, why weren't there rumors about the Red Sox or Angels or Yankees going for him? Then again, that's (admittedly) not a good way to judge the signing.

Basically though, since he's 26... if he can't hack it at the big league level this year, is there little hope he'll be anything more than a utility player? Or is that being (too) unfair to a guy who will be in away from his country for such an extended period of time (maybe even for the first time in his life)?

by CWSKeith on Dec 21, 2007 7:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

There has to be some adjustment period

for sure.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Age...

It definitely works against Ramirez, but -- in my humble opinion -- people are often a little excessive in dismissing older prospects. Some players develop later and although it means they'll never be stars, they can still become useful major league players. Especially in the case of Ramirez, if he has some natural talent and gets a couple of good years of instruction (I know -- that's questionable) I think he could certainly be a useful player.

I don't think all players are "all they'll ever be" at age 26. The 26 year-old peak goes back to Bill James, and I think someone recently reassessed the data and thought that peak performances occur more accurately in the 26 - 30 age range. Certainly, a guy that's 26 and mediocre at AAA isn't a great prospect, but Ramirez will have some mitigating factors. I don't think that if he's not a major league baller this year that he'll for sure not make it.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 21, 2007 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesn't work against him

it just means that we can't expect him to ever get much better than his baseline output. It'll be up to some debate how well that'll be worked out.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

merkin: 4-years/$4.75 mil

[merkin]:

by The Wizard on Dec 21, 2007 7:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nice

No risk, potential reward. I've liked every move this offseason with the exception of Linebrink's full NTC.

by 3E8 on Dec 21, 2007 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont think

that he has a full no trade the entire length of the contract

by Jbasic89 on Dec 21, 2007 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For that money....

I think it's an OK move. It's a decent gamble by an organization that desperately needs talent.

The only way this is a bad move is if that money would otherwise have been used in the draft and now they'll go cheap there. Hopefully that isn't the case.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 21, 2007 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

since he established residence in the dominican

in november, why only 5 games? (team schedule)

by The Wizard on Dec 21, 2007 8:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Had to get used to the water.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Dec 21, 2007 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this is rather exciting, IMO

gives us another option up the middle and maybe Cabrera's successor.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Dec 21, 2007 8:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

be like ozzie!

[AP via SI]:

Primarily a second baseman and outfielder in Cuba, Ramirez told the AP shortly after leaving Cuba that he hoped to play shortstop and follow in the footsteps of Ozzie Smith, Rey Ordonez and Omar Vizquel.

by The Wizard on Dec 21, 2007 9:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

shortstop?

It's kind of unusual for a player to go from a less difficult position (OF or 2B) to a more difficult position-- in this case, the most difficult position in MLB at SS.

A lot of guys have gone from being middle infielders to outfielders-- Mantle, Aaron, Yount, Soriano. Anybody ever gone the other way -- OF to SS ('cept Jermaine when half the team was out of the game)?

by ruffster on Dec 21, 2007 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He was a SS on his Cuban team

played CF in the WBC, and is considered a 2B/CF prospect in the MLB.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 21, 2007 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

4.75 total?

That's the draft pick we gave up.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 10:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

a second rounder

would be less than $1M bonus

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 21, 2007 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well the owners are flush now, y'see

so the math doesn't have to be good

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

at under $5M

I feel a lot better about the deal. But the (lack of real baseball) money is probably indicative of talent, and we just guaranteed money to a AAA-AAAA player.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 21, 2007 10:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He's only very likely to be AAA-AAAA

There's some small chance that he's better than that. The putative Sox employee on posted Ramirez's MLB Scouting Bureau Scores:
Hit - 45
Power - 35
Arm - 60
Field - 35 INF 45 OF
Run - 55

OFP: 47

Apparently that's Omar Infante. And that all sounds legit to me.

I think if you are convinced the guy will be Infante but with some small chance of being better, it's not a terrible gamble of $1M a year.

The only significantly better use of the money would have been the draft IMO. And maybe the Sox still have all the money needed to go as far over slot as they are willing to even with this signing. I think this is OK.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 22, 2007 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, this doesn't inspire much confidence

[Dave van Dyck]:

Torres held tryouts for Ramirez in the Dominican last fall but had no immediate takers, even though several teams are looking for center fielders. The Cubs were among the teams said to be interested at one time.

The $1.2 million annual price tag for the White Sox is far from the $12 million a year for Rowand, which is a good indicator of worth. Still, he might be an upgrade over Owens or Richar, or he could become a versatile utility backup player, like Pablo Ozuna, who makes $1.25 million. The Sox already have Orlando Cabrera and Juan Uribe as shortstops.

Meanwhile, White Sox general manager Ken Williams said via e-mail that he would consider obtaining players mentioned in the Mitchell report on a "case-by-case" basis. The Sox, like the Cubs, could be interested in Baltimore second baseman Brian Roberts.

at the time his residency/legal status was uncertain though, right?

by The Wizard on Dec 21, 2007 10:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ramirez

Although it's looking like this won't be the case, the key here is whether Ramirez can be an average defensive SS. Going under the assumption that he can match (as brought up by someone at Soxtalk) Omar Infante-type offensive numbers (say .280/.315/.400 -- those are probably 75th-percentile Infante numbers), the Sox will have a cheap and perfectly average SS in the wings and won't be bent over in Cabrera-extension negotiations (and might actually be able to reap the benefits of the compensation system -- how about that!).

by CWSKeith on Dec 21, 2007 11:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I doubt that's likely

but I still like the signing. It's showing a willingness to take an inexpensive risk that could pay off. They need to start doing the same in the draft. Their sense of scale has seemed skewed in the past, but with some of the recent latin american progresses (Silverio, Martinez, and another camp i think) I think we might finally be understanding the value of such moves.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2007 11:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

reading a bit more, I see a lot of vague-ness about his position. The three positions he's played seem to be SS, 2B and CF, and I've even seen some mentions about him playing a corner OF spot. I highly doubt he'll hit well enough to play a corner but looking at this optimistically, I hope he can hit well enough to be a mainstay (average) at one of those three up-the-middle spots.

I hope this signing will merit a conference-call with Williams. Usually there's a lot of "nothingness" in what he says but occassionally you can read a bit into what he's saying.

But yeah, I'm otherwise fine with this deal. He adds a (limited but still there) bit more excitement to the 2008 season, even if he only ends up as a younger Pablo Ozuna.

by CWSKeith on Dec 21, 2007 11:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

worth the risk

Atleast it's someone under 30.

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Dec 22, 2007 12:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what it says

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/features/264874.html

(I might get a subscription in my stocking, otherwise I'm out of luck.)

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 22, 2007 12:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

On the same day Kenny signs Ramirez...

the Rangers trade for Josh Hamilton. Awesome.

Is Kenny going to acquire anyone else this offseason or is he done now?

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

And if Ramirez is playing CF for us in 2008...

he was the cheapest possible option.

How does a GM keep a job when he lost $75 million dollars?

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

no, jerry owens was the cheapest

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True...

and he may still be starting in CF. Hehe.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I love how Cuban players are discussed...

"Ramirez, whose age is listed at 26"

Haha.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone have a list of Ramirez's stats...

in the D.L.? Not that they mean much. I can't find them anywhere.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:18 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

not that hard to find

all winter league stats at mlb.com

http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Alexei%20Ramirez&pos=OF&sid=l131&t=p_pbp&p id=493351

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry...

I meant his stats in Cuba.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

see the thread linked in cheat's post

has them compiled through 2006 and what he did in 2007.

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or here

http://www.beisbolcubano.cu/static/guiawebbeisbol/Paghtm/labor%20de%20por%20Vida/DePorVidaOfens.htm

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the arod binder

this is the binder, declaring arod's superiority to every known man, sent by boras to every team during 2000. it's interesting to see, despite the somewhat crude methodology, how good the projection to age 30 was. also interesting to see boras' methodology.

http://youbeenblinded.com/alex-rodriguez-historical-performance/

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kenny says that he sees Ramirez as a CF or SS...

so he will either play CF for us this season and SS in 2009 if Cabrera leaves via free agency.

Or he's a major bust and never plays for us.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

which means they'll use him like

Angel Gonzalez.

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 22, 2007 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

where did KW say that?

and he's not playing major league baseball anytime soon.

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

to SSH

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I took it from another board...

I assume it was Kenny's comments on WSCR 670 or ESPN 1000.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

fairly certain KW didn't say that

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wait, KW was with coppock so maybe

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sounds like it was the usual softballs on espn

not much to glean from it, especially considering KW can't really talk about ramirez yet.

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You are correct...

From SoxTalk.com:

Did he say anything about Alexei Ramírez?

He couldnt say anything due to fact that the transaction isnt complete yet with MLB. But he mentioned specifically that the player in question can play CF and SS and they did their homework on him.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

a "26 y/o" with success in international play will play ASAP if he can handle it in ST. KW has some doubters to convince.

You watch.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 22, 2007 8:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

which is a bad reason to play someone

ST isn't a much higher level of play than AAA. he should be brought along slowly.

by larry on Dec 22, 2007 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What "should" and what

"will be" are perhaps mutually exclusive. He'll be on the roster (if freaking Andy Gonzales was on it) when they break camp unless he seriously falls on his face, if only to caddy for Count.

And if he distinguishes himself, he's starting. He ain't supplanting Willie Mays, after all.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Dec 22, 2007 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So do we now sign Mike Cameron...

and let Alexei Ramirez get a season of AAA in?

With the Rangers trading for Josh Hamilton and the Cardinals going with Rick Ankiel or Colby Rasmus in CF, the only other suitor I see for Mike Cameron is the Atlanta Braves.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 12:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

there must not be a fit with Cameron,

or it would have happened by now. Or maybe he's holding out for a 3-yr, and maybe he'll come in later, once he realizes he wont get it.

Or Kenny thinks he really is better off with JO.

Mosi Tatupu! Mosi Tatupu!

by Nordhagen on Dec 22, 2007 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rotoworld.com thinks that...

Mike Cameron to the Reds would make sense now that they have traded Josh Hamilton.

I don't see it. They already have three possible replacements for CF -- Norris Hopper, Ryan Freel, Chris Dickerson, and Jay Bruce.

I think the Atlanta Braves are interested in Cameron. Right now, they have Matt Diaz in LF, Josh Anderson in CF, and Jeff Francoeur in RF.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They're going to put Lillibridge

in center, I'd bet.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Dec 22, 2007 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Some supposed scout on Alexei Ramirez...

From SoxTalk.com:

Alexei Ramirez compares very closely with Omar Infante (ATL - formerly of DET) except with less power. That is the scouting comparison from across MLB. A utility-type with a lack of plate discipline, some speed, a nice arm. More of a RF, but capable of filling in at 2B/CF. .270-.315-.390 #s.

Omar Infante? If true... *pukes*

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure that's an accurate assessment

What do you think you get for $1M a year? It's not that bad -- if he's a .680 OPS backup then that's the going rate for that. He can play multiple positions. And there's some small chance he ends up better than that. It's a good gamble.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 22, 2007 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's absolutely a good gamble.

It's a low risk move with a decent up side. And it's a little creative. KW put some Milk Duds in our Christmas stocking. Sure, a Snickers would have been better, but Milk Duds are fine.

by palehose67 on Dec 22, 2007 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

From the pictures of Ramirez...

he looks like Pablo Ozuna Part II. So a .680 OPS may not be very far off.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

a graduate of the bill frist school of evaluation?

by The Wizard on Dec 22, 2007 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cuban league

In seven seasons in Cuba, Ramírez hit .332 with 87 home runs and 391 RBIs with Pinar del Río. In 2006, he hit .335 with 68 RBIs and led the league with 20 homers.

how many games in a season in the cuban league?

by The Wizard on Dec 22, 2007 1:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yes, thanks

so, 20 HRs and 68 RBIs in 90 games project to 36 HRs and 122 RBI in 162 games

obviously we can't expect that...

by The Wizard on Dec 22, 2007 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

looks like weve got

THE NEXT ALFSONSO SORIANO...yeah...

by Jbasic89 on Dec 22, 2007 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Career stats



  PA    AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG    TB   SH  SF IBB

2820  2478  455  827  134 26  90  397  44 32 267 281 .334  .396* .518  1283   17  16  44?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 22, 2007 3:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Awesome, thanks...

What is the asterisk next to his OBP for?

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't accurately calculate it

I don't have HBP, or rather I don't know the spanish abreviation for HBP....

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 22, 2007 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah okay...

so his OBP is likely even higher if you were able to include his HBP stats. Nice.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

44 SB, 32 CS...

Those are some Uribe-esque base-running skills. Juanito has 34 SB and 31 CS in his career. The .914 career OPS is nice though.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I could be reading it wrong.

career stats are listed here

most have terrible baserunning percentages (assuming I'm reading things properly)

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 22, 2007 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For some perspective

Here's how Alexei stacks up with the consensus best player/pro prospect (Youliesky Gourriel) in the Cuban League.



  PA    AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG    TB   SH  SF IBB

2820  2478  455  827  134 26  90  397  44 32 267 281 .334  .396* .518  1283   17  16  44?

2653  2322  475  765  147 42 112  459  79 23 248 241 .329  .389* .574  1332    5  31  41?

Gourriel is listed second, obviously.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 22, 2007 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That makes me feel better about the signing...

Ramírez doesn't have as much power as Gourriel but he can apparently play CF while Gourriel is a 3B.

So I guess Ramírez really was the second best Cuban player?

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Gourriel was considered a SS when he playing the WBC, but played 2B because of seniority/deference to more established players at SS and 3B. I think Gourriel has more defensive value as well.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 22, 2007 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

While Googling Yuliesky Gourriel, I found this...

interesting Baseball America article from March 2, 2006 by John Manuel:

Scouts who have seen Gourriel say he's up to it.

"That kid is something special," said John Kazanas, an area scout for the White Sox who saw Gourriel in the 2004 Olympics, when Kazanas was the Greek team's coach. "He's got such quick wrists, it's like a knife through butter, and there's no butter on the knife.

"There were a lot of good players in Athens. I wrote him up as my No. 1, and he was 20 years old on top of it."

I have heard that Gourriel is treated like a king in Cuba so he may never want to come to the MLB.

by SSH2005 on Dec 22, 2007 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Alexei

I've seen Alexei play in Cuba, more than once, and can confirm he is a serious talent. There's a kind of excitement or energy around him, like the sort you see around Vlad or Jose Reyes or Ryan Howard: when he's on deck, you get the sense that SOMETHING is going to happen. I can also confirm he's a solid fielder, though he seems to exhibit some Soriano-esque mental lapses from time to time. I'm sure Ozzie will straighten that out quick.

Like a lot of big stars, he's a bit of a showboat, so I expect he'll get struck out on some embarassingly bad pitches now and then, but once he adjusts to the talent level, I think he'll be a solid contributor. A little discipline and humility (see again: value of Ozzie) will also help him focus.

Despite what the commenter above said, pitching in Cuba is very good, so offensive numbers gained against that pitching should not be ignored. The Cubans play an older-school style of ball, though, often valuing defense (and so, defensive-minded players) over slugging. It's only very recently that home-run hitting has become much of a valued skill in Cuba... and even then it's because players want to be noticed in the USA. Coaches still preach team-ball. When those players come to the US and enter a home-run culture, they tend to over-exert.

ScoutingBook: Top Baseball Prospects, Closers and more.

by scoutingbook on Dec 22, 2007 6:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

vlad? reyes? howard?

I'm drooling...

by The Wizard on Dec 22, 2007 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Energy, I said. Energy!

I didn't mean he had the bat of Howard or Vlad (he does not) or the speed of Reyes (also, not) so please grab a napkin.

But there is no doubt when he's on the field that he's a gamemaker, and those guys up there give a crowd the same sense of anticipation that I saw X-Ram create while playing in Cuba.

ScoutingBook: Top Baseball Prospects, Closers and more.

by scoutingbook on Dec 23, 2007 1:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah!

I just saw those guys mentioned in the same sentence with x-ram and couldn't think straight!

by The Wizard on Dec 23, 2007 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

With this monumental signing

I think KW is now on a roll and will looking for additional cheap, unproven talent within the Kane County Cougars, Joliet Jackhammers and Schaumburg Flyers organizations.

"2008 White Sox - Expect greatness, settle for mediocrity"

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 22, 2007 10:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

How dare you forget...

...the Gary Southshore Railcats!?!?

As a proud NWI'er I'm tepidly insulted!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Dec 23, 2007 1:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My apologies

to all those in the land of "lake effect snow."

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 23, 2007 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Err... League Champion Railcats!

2 of the last 3 years - the other year as runner up

by Brush Back on Dec 24, 2007 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And a PS on Special Cubans

Yes, Gourriel is better, and probably not coming to America anytime soon.

(But they're all treated like gods there, like actual heroes of the city, not just the superstars. The biggest attraction of MLB is pride: wanting to play against the best competition available. The money is a distant second, though to be fair most don't really have a sense of what the money means. $20/mo is a LOT of money in Cuba, when everything you need to buy only costs four cents.)

ScoutingBook: Top Baseball Prospects, Closers and more.

by scoutingbook on Dec 23, 2007 1:56 AM CST reply actions 0 recs