About Andruw and Aaron

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2007 7:36 PM CST in White Sox News

Kenny says not so fast Ozzie:

Despite earlier comments by manager Ozzie Guillen, general manager Kenny Williams said the White Sox have no interest in free agent center fielder Andruw Jones.

"Andruw Jones is not on our list," said Williams, adding that he liked Jones but wanted players who can help lower the team's strikeout total, raise their on-base percentage and work deep counts.

Update [2007-12-4 20:39:58 by The Cheat]: Orlando Cabrera has a career OBP of .321 and averages 3.5 pitches per plate appearance. Andruw Jones has a career .342 OBP and averages 3.75 pitches per plate appearance.

From MLBTR:

Williams' statement about patience might indicate the Sox are in on Jason Bay and Kosuke Fukudome, as has been rumored. Others who exhibit patience or deep counts who might be available: Nick Swisher, Austin Kearns, Reggie Willits, Johnny Damon, Brian Roberts, Jamey Carroll, Milton Bradley, and Mike Cameron.

***** Kenny on Rowand:

Bringing free agent Aaron Rowand back into the mix also doesn't seem to be the next step for Williams because of an impasse in regard to the sort of long-term deal each side desires. "You try to do things that make sense," said Williams, speaking in general terms regarding Rowand. "I can't give you a dollar if I only have 50 cents. Some decisions are made awfully easy for you." When asked if he could dole out 50 cents over five years instead of four, Williams responded that the move depended on the player being talked about. When Rowand was loosely described, Williams added "I wouldn't count on it." On the first day Rowand filed, Williams sent a message to him joking about how he was willing to spend as much time with Rowand at home in Las Vegas as needed in order to sell the White Sox. That sale appears to have been presently negated.

***** In other news,

Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times says "Kosuke Fukodome is almost certainly going to sign with the Chicago Cubs." Padres made 3/24 offer?
The 3rd base market got a new entry and I'm not talking about Brandon Inge: Tadahito Iguchi. Speaking of Tadahito, Van Dyck says he's looking for a 3-year deal.
Teams interested in Chris Burke: White Sox, Rockies, A's, and Angels. Maybe not the Sox. The Rockies offered SS Clint Barmes.
More Hot Stove: Cleveland to trade for Jason Bay? No. Mets are looking into Bartolo Colon. Nationals wanted Chad Qualls and Luke Scott for Chad Cordero. Luke Scott may end up in San Diego. Robothal says no agreement.
Did you know that "a clause in the CBA allows teams to release players prior to March 15th and only be liable for 16% of the salary they were given in arbitration"? I didn't. Thanks to USS Mariner for the pointer.
Tango asks How much is Troy Tulowitzki worth in a trade?
BP and BA on Quentin-Carter. BTW, here's BA Cabrera-Garland. And BP's Nate Silver and David Laurila and BTB on Cabrera to Detroit.
That was fast. Speaking of FJM.

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Comments

well cheat

how can u explain CARLOS QUENTIN...

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 7:41 PM CST reply actions

I'd say that Torii Hunter

was our number 1 target...

He struck out 100 time in every full season in teh majors, has a career .324 OBP, and sees 3.51 pitches per plate appearance.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2007 7:45 PM CST up reply actions

only a rumor

but according to the seattle post, fuk is almost certain to sign with the cubs. kenny keeps getting punked.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 7:46 PM CST up reply actions

The one thing I will say is that....

Cabrera to the Halos was talked about for over a week how it was just a matter of time before he went out West, and we saw how that worked for them. I don't have very much faith in this organization right now, but just because the Cubs are hot for Fuk doesn't mean its a done deal.

by Tony82087 on Dec 4, 2007 8:38 PM CST up reply actions

wasnt rowand our first?

i dont know im thinking we get a middle reliever for crede at this point and not much else happens the way everyones jumping out ahead of the sox and grabbing everyone. can jason bay play center?

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 7:47 PM CST up reply actions

please

god do not throw 14 mil a year at the fire and passion.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 7:48 PM CST up reply actions

Fine,

Then you better end up with Fuk Kenny.

by Tony82087 on Dec 4, 2007 7:45 PM CST reply actions

Will you finally rip Kenny if he fails...

to sign Fuku? Andruw Jones is out of the picture. Now, he is left with either Fuku or Rowand as big money CF signings. I will be waiting for your apology when Kenny trades for sorry-ass Coco Crisp.

by SSH2005 on Dec 4, 2007 8:10 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know about Tony

But if KW trades for Crisp I'll be ready to join in the ripping. At this point, the only players the Sox could deal to get Crisp would be Gio or DLS and Quentin or Sweeney. That's the type of move that should get a GM fired if it happens.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 8:18 PM CST up reply actions

Better luck next time...

Link:

What else am I hearing? That Japanese outfielder Kosume Fukodome is almost certainly going to sign with the Chicago Cubs, so forget about a Raul Ibanez deal to Chicago. Was never a realistic scenario once Fukodome got on the radar.

And I think we should stop assuming that Kenny knows what he's doing. He doesn't want Andruw Jones because of his low OBP? Is Kenny really that clueless? Watch him trade for Coco Crisp and his awesome OBP. Kenny and Jerry will pay for their stupidity and cheapness with a nice fourth place finish.

Yeah, 5-years, $75 million was on the table for Torii Hunter, huh? Watch Kenny not spend that money now.

by SSH2005 on Dec 4, 2007 8:24 PM CST up reply actions

Ibanez? Where the eff did

that come from?

Not a bad LF...wouldn't solve CF, though.

2008 - The Final Solution

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions

It was the Cubs

They were supposedly looking at Ibanez for a corner OF spot.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 8:33 PM CST up reply actions

At this point

KC has a better team than the Sox. Fourth place is an irrationally exuberant prediction.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 8:32 PM CST up reply actions

I don't know why you want me to rip kenny so badly

but if we don't have get add another legit OF this season, I will be very upset. To be clear, Owens-Crisp-Loften-Patterson are not legit OF options.

This has been a terrible day for the Sox.

by Tony82087 on Dec 4, 2007 8:33 PM CST up reply actions

does anyone think the sox

would be interested in bringing in defector alexei ramirez to play center? i know he played there in the wbc and i dont see any other options as it looks like the northsiders have grabbed fukodome.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 7:50 PM CST reply actions

I wish people would start accepting.....

that Jerry Owens getting a shot in the OF next season is not the worst thing ever.

I'm not a huge fan of his....but he did have a great September....and he's only a 3rd year player...let him play!

And trade Paulie please!!!!!!

by stanchar on Dec 4, 2007 7:59 PM CST reply actions

Et tu, stan?

JO srarting in CF is the death knell of our season. Really. We'll ground down to 15 posts a game by May.

2008 - The Final Solution

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 8:01 PM CST up reply actions

Here's Peter Gammons' take.....

on Linebrink:

"Ken Williams always liked Scott Linebrink, which is why he offered former No. 1 pick Lance Broadway and another prospect for him at last July's trade deadline. Hence the $19 million, four-year deal. It's been pointed out that Linebrink is 4-for-30 in save opportunities, but he's being paid to get to Bobby Jenks."

by stanchar on Dec 4, 2007 8:03 PM CST up reply actions

Gammons is statistically illiterate

"4-for-30"... with 118 "holds". Saves and blown saves are even more worthless for middle relievers.

by dgribben357 on Dec 4, 2007 8:25 PM CST up reply actions

need to happen

theres about 5 things that need to happen in order to compete in this division.

Contreras goes back to pitching like he did from mid '05 to early '06.
Danks, Floyd/Gio/Broadway need to combine for at least 22 wins and keep there era's near 4.50
Thome and Dye must avoid the DL.
Bullpen needs to be top 5 in AL.
if JO is the leadoff man, he needs to hit .275 and have an OBP of at least .330

now looking at this, it doesnt look very probable...

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 8:07 PM CST up reply actions

You forgot # 6

Detrooit and Cleveland have to take a month summer vacation and forfeit a pile of games.

by White Sox Randy on Dec 4, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions

anyone like the idea of a deal

for nick swisher and rich harden for us. i think that with all of hardens recent injuries the a's might be willing to give him away for some decent minor league talent n swisher cant have much more value than sweeney n a broadway

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 8:11 PM CST reply actions

I read the Fuku to Cubs thing as well

It's time for Kenny to change course. The Sox don't have the financial ability to compete for the top free agents and a strategy to build a team through free agency seems rather misguided.

As Clint said, a man's got know his limitations. It's time to stop the charade and to stop dealing prospects for anything. And the Sox should deal off someone from Konerko, Vazquez, and Jenks for multiple younger players.

The Linebrink signing was just colosally stupid -- lose a draft pick and give him a NTC to player that won't make any difference to the success of the team. Gah.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 8:12 PM CST reply actions

Which is why some of us

since Sept. have been saying "blow it up". We seem to be in Giants mode, keeping it afloat (sort of) until someone/anyone rises from the farm ashes and saves us.

We need to go one way or the other - make an all-out commitment to winning in '08 (HA!) or in 2010-2011. We are straddling the fence presently and thus will muddle through - not good, not (terribly) bad, for the foreseeable future.

75 wins in '08. Embrace the truth.

2008 - The Final Solution

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 8:16 PM CST up reply actions

And the truth will set you free....

I'm pretty sure I was in favor of firesalesque philsophy this season as well. The Sox are in the awkward situation of having enough financial wherewithal to have a decent sized payroll, but not enough to compete with NYY,BOS,DET, and LAA.

The Sox don't have the resources to make large, risky outlays and so they make smaller dumb investments in second-tier players like Linebrink and Dye (the recent contract, not the original which was one of the great FA signings in history).

They are so Baltimore Orioles.

Anyway, I'm tired of seeing the Sox look like a pretender. I want them to look like they are competent.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 8:29 PM CST up reply actions

One day of positive vibes

from the Quentin deal have been completely wiped out today. My thoughts (reposted) from Soxtalk:

Everything that's wrong with this organization has sort of culminated today. It's a real shame and leaves me rather depressed about this team's short-future:

The Tigers ability and brashness in actually spending $$$ in the draft helps them land the player we wanted.
Our complete lack of generating ANYTHING on the farm for the early part of this decade is rearing its ugly head. If we had but one more impact bat in the high minors, I'd think our chances of landing Miggy would've been so much greater.
Kenny says they don't want Andruw because of OBP issues? That's gotta be Gonzalez' input and not Kenny's, right? Our GM honestly isn't dumb enough to say that, right? Because Jones has a higher career OBP than the guy we threw the kitchen sink at in Torii Hunter.
The Cubs look to be closing in on Fukodome while we're puttering around with... Aaron Rowand?

Yikes... right now we just look like a group who has their thumbs up their asses. Is Kenny going to seriously try and BS every Sox fan that the Sox are going to try and compete with the likes of Boston, New York, Detroit Cleveland and Anahiem? He can't be that naive, right?

This sucks hard. At least we'll have the June draft to look forward to where we'll almost assuredly pass on a superior Boras talent just so we can save some coin and please Uncle Bud.

I'm also thinking about how different things would be if we'd drafted Porcello instead of Poreda. Would the Tigers even have ONE 'B' or better prospect? Probably not.

And from the Sox' perspective, the future would be sooo much brighter. Sure, we'd still be looking up (in the standings) for 2008 and 2009, but would there be a better crop of young pitching than a top three of Gio/DLS/Porcello? Obviously TINSTAAP applies, but off the top of my head, the Yankees are the only team who could boast a better top-three.

While I'm on a nice little run here, the Linebrink signing looks better and better. Give up our second round pick AND a no-trade clause to a reliever with terrible peripherals. Brilliant.

At least he'll be providing stability to a fourth-place team's bullpen, right?

by CWSKeith on Dec 4, 2007 8:30 PM CST reply actions

porcello hasnt thrown a pitch yet

while aaron poreda has been more than we could ask for so far. other than that i complete agree with you.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 8:37 PM CST up reply actions

Poreda projects as bullpen arm at best

Supposedly the scouts responsible for the pick got canned.

I appreciate the attempt at optimism though.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 8:40 PM CST up reply actions

a bullpen arm at best?

he looked pretty good in rookie ball as a starter and he still has a lot of time to develop his secondary pitches with him only being 22 and us having a lot of starting pitching candidates (broadway, gio gonzalez, gavin floyd, john danks, charlie haeger, DLS)

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 8:46 PM CST up reply actions

He projects as a bullpen arm

To people who didnt want to take him in the first place. His 1st year was fine.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Dec 4, 2007 8:52 PM CST up reply actions

Poreda

"Perfect World Projection: Poreda is clearly a big-time power pitcher, but scouts are split as to whether his future is as a starter or as a bullpen ace."

All in all Im kind of tired of the attempt to paint Poreda as some kind of coming bust or lack of value and Porcello as the second coming.

All the kid did was dominate in his inital outing.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Dec 4, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions

I was repeating the assessment of a Sox employee

Or at least supposed Sox employee that posted on soxtalk. Most people felt the guy was legit. Poreda, we were told, has terrible mechanics and a single pitch and the west coast scouts for the Sox were fired for the pick. It was less than uplifting.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 9:01 PM CST up reply actions

If you

thought that guy was legit I've got a primo piece of property to sell you in Gary Indiana.

by bhoov on Dec 4, 2007 10:28 PM CST up reply actions

If he was legit

I thought he should have been canned.

In any case, as unbelievable as it was the mods supposedly checked the guy out. And the west coast Sox scouts did get the axe IIRC. They just hired some new ones. So, it's possible he is for real.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 10:51 PM CST up reply actions

I just wrote almost the same thing above..

The real kicker will be if Jones signs with KC. Even without that, the Sox organization looks as bad as Keith Law thinks they are.

I'd be a lot happier if the Sox were bad (which happens to teams) but the GM looked like he was competently trying to make the team better.

I'm not big on Cub animosity, but losing Fukudome to the Cubs really stings.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 8:45 PM CST up reply actions

I'm with you on your last line..

I could give a shit about what goes on with the Cubs, but losing Fuk to them would be a big blow.

by Tony82087 on Dec 4, 2007 8:49 PM CST up reply actions

What really sucks is

we are no longer even a primary "Sox". Look at any major sports Website - whenever "Sox" is mentioned, it ain't us. No longer is there any differentiation between "White" and "Red". We, after a brief, shining moment of glory, are relegated to 2nd tier 2 years later. Not serious, not a force to be reckoned with. We are Foghat, or the Knack, or Steam (how perfect) - a one-hit wonder of yesteryear, currently on tour with Styx and REO Speedwagon, being seen only by AARP folks interested in nostalgia.

Sigh.

2008 - The Final Solution

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 8:47 PM CST reply actions

Foghat a 1-Hit Wonder?

Fool for the City (1975) - Platinum
Night Shift (1976) - Gold
Foghat Live (1977) - Double Platinum
Stone Blue (1978) - Gold
Boogie Motel (1979) - Gold

It's been all down hill since 1979, but dude, come on...don't dis Foghat.

I don't want you, cook my bread,
I don't want you, make my bed,
I don't want your money too,
I just wanna make love to you.
I don't want you, be no slave,
I don't want you, work all day,
I don't want you to be sad and blue,
I just wanna make love to you.

- Foghat (1972)

"Each one of my (off-season acquisition)targets has that edge to them, that go-getter attitude. We need it. We will embrace it." - Kenny Williams (11/28/07)

by tailgater on Dec 4, 2007 10:44 PM CST up reply actions

our only hope for next year

is the development of our young starting pitching.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 8:50 PM CST reply actions

and getting whatever they can

for sweeney, anderson, and crede

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 8:54 PM CST up reply actions

According to yahoo sports and MLB.com,

D-Train and Miguel Cabrera are set to go to the Tiggers in a preliminary deal. This hours after both Larry and I said 'no way' (I can admit when I'm wrong).

All I can, right now, is: shit.

by HulkSmash on Dec 4, 2007 8:53 PM CST reply actions

a little late buddy

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2007 8:55 PM CST up reply actions

Has this been discussed

in a previous thread?

by HulkSmash on Dec 4, 2007 8:55 PM CST up reply actions

I see it now...

well, at least I got to out myself as being wrong!

by HulkSmash on Dec 4, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions

For about an hour or two

But you have other things on your mind - like the cameras on your front lawn..

2008 - The Final Solution

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, they're getting me angry

And people don't like me when I'm angry...

by HulkSmash on Dec 4, 2007 8:58 PM CST up reply actions

Pretty goddamn funny.

Good distraction from our futility. Can you do this for the next 10 months?

2008 - The Final Solution

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2007 9:00 PM CST up reply actions

Yeah, no problem

Something tells me, as a Sox fan, I'm going to be seeing red for the next year or so.

by HulkSmash on Dec 4, 2007 9:02 PM CST up reply actions

FIRE KEP+NNY

If Kenny cant get us a good cf and we have another terrible offseason like last year I think that its time to call for kennys head

by mp11932 on Dec 4, 2007 9:00 PM CST reply actions

At least Erstad has a job

If Darin Erstad doesn't find a job that suits him, there is word that he could return to the University of Nebraska, his alma mater, and be an assistant coach for the football team. A punter in college, Erstad was part of the Cornhuskers' 1994 national championship squad and remains one of Tom Osborne's favorite players.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2007 9:25 PM CST reply actions

you're kidding?

Erstad played football at Nebraska?

"We can stay with Jerry Owens in center field...So we've got a lot of flexibility" - Kenny Williams

by ChicagoPete on Dec 5, 2007 7:28 AM CST up reply actions

I thought Callahan was the coach

Isn't Osborne out?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 5, 2007 6:24 PM CST up reply actions

umm...

callahan got calla-canned. osborne is the AD and was (and may still be) acting coach until their new hire, bo pelini from lsu, comes on board. not sure whether pelini is coaching lsu's defense in the title game.

Once and for all, the leadoff position is how Jenna Jameson decides to spend the first 8 minutes of video time, which has nothing to do with baseball.

by Toonderstrook on Dec 5, 2007 6:34 PM CST up reply actions

Gotcha

haven't been paying much attention to college football lately.

Have you dropped by the Golden Bear on a Sunday yet?

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Dec 5, 2007 6:58 PM CST up reply actions

i understand

college football blew this year. i haven't made it over there yet, but i'm going to.

Once and for all, the leadoff position is how Jenna Jameson decides to spend the first 8 minutes of video time, which has nothing to do with baseball.

by Toonderstrook on Dec 5, 2007 7:11 PM CST up reply actions

added kenny quote on rowand at the post

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2007 9:26 PM CST reply actions

is this D-day in kennys sox history?

will we be pointing to this date in june when we are 15 games out of first place?
i know its early and all, but its just hard to get excited with the core of players coming back. hopefully, as someone mentioned previously, our young SP's get a shot and really perform well.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 9:32 PM CST reply actions

Yesterday

this site was teeming with praise for Kenny Williams because of a potentially great acquisition, Carlos Quentin.

Miguel Cabrera was on his way to the Angels. The Angels, not the White Sox. Everyone wanted another outfielder - Jones, Fukedome, even Rowand for 3 years.

Today Kenny Williams is a complete buffoon and the organization is back to being the worst.

The only change is that Miguel Cabrera went to Detroit.

Doesn't make sense. It's only December 4. It's only December 4.

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2007 9:50 PM CST reply actions

hope and pray

that the miguel cabrera addition has the jim thome effect on the tigers. the sox looked unbeatable coming off a WS title with the addition of vazquez and thome, but detroit and minnesota actually ended up beign the bwo best teams. maybe the sox can pull off some magic like this.

by The Deacon on Dec 4, 2007 10:00 PM CST up reply actions

As I said in the last thread

It's more of a culmination of everything that has gone wrong for the Sox the past several seasons. Everything has sort of come to a head today. It's highlighted the differences between Dombrowski's-ran Tigers and Williams'-ran White Sox. Their good drafting and development has basically allowed them to gut the farm for a once-in-a-decade player.

Moreover, it's the comments about Andruw Jones that piss me off. There are quotes floating around that I don't feel like rounding up of Williams basically saying the Sox want a good defender, an OBP guy and a guy who will see a lot of pitches. Yet the Sox were willing to give Torii Hunter 5/$75, despite the fact that he isn't better than Jones in any of those three categories.

Furthermore, there appears to be a disconnect in the organization between Guillen and Williams, and IMO that's the most disconcerting thing. You have Guillen earlier talking up Jones, saying Boras won't prevent the Sox from making a run at Jones... and then you have Williams just hours later saying Jones is at the bottom of the list (if on the list at all). You also have some players who don't appear to be to happy. There's a quote out there that Jermaine Dye texted or called Kenny and basically said, "WTF?" Kenny promised Buehrle and Dye an upgraded team, and this team looks poised for an even WORSE year, if only because the Royals, Twinkies (maybe) and Tigers have all improved.

So what now? He doesn't like Jones, Fukodome appears to be bound for Cubbie blue or for San Diego, and it appears that Rowand is out of his price range. Where does that leave us? Are we going to try and top the Astros' putrid farm system by trading Gio for Coco Crisp? Because remember -- we're going to compete in 2008, come hell or high water.

We wouldn't have these problems right now if back in June, Kenny had some foresight and said "fuck it -- this farm system is a mess, let's do what we can to clean it up and deal both Buehrle and Dye."

It would take a lot of balls, but I'd love to see the Sox deal Konerko in the next 36 hours. Some team is going to be pissed for missing out on Miggy. I know Konerko isn't anywhere near as good as Miggy, but 3/$36 is reasonable and Konerko has a bunch of those intangibles that makes his perceived value look much better than his 'on-field' value.

I know a lot hasn't changed... I know a realsitic mind could've told anyone before tonight that the Sox weren't going to end up with Cabrera or Jones this winter. But it hurts, man -- it really hurts. This is probably the lowest point I can remember feeling as a Sox fan.

by CWSKeith on Dec 4, 2007 10:20 PM CST up reply actions

Hey I've seen worse...

It's possible I'm as creakingly ancient as winningugly. I've seen very bad Sox teams...it teaches you a lesson more valuable than anything you'll get from all that book-learnin' up at Marquette. You have to let go of things you can't control. Really, the Star Wars movies were about the same thing, so seeing those probably works as well as being a Sox fan. Either way, it's a good thing to learn.

Anyway, I think the most disturbing thing is that Williams looks clueless right now. He says things that contradict his manager. He says things that contradict his actions. If the Cubs didn't blow the Sox out of the water in their bid for Fukudome, it'll be very telling. He's a CF that offers OBP and supposedly wants a 3 year deal. The Sox supposedly have money to spend, and it's not like they save that for a big spree later. They should use it to acquire talent that doesn't compromise the future. At the risk of sounding like a typical fan, if the 3 year thing is true it was time to stretch the budget and get a player for a change.

I don't think this was a watershed day for Williams. I already blew a gasket with the Linebrink signing and I think posted that KW needed to go. Pretty kneejerk stuff. I think his next move will tell the final story. Assuming Fukudome is already gone, there's two ways to go:

Trade a veteran for multiple players. Preferably younger. Konerko would be my choice and LAA may be stung and Stonemanless enough to give up two guys for him. If not Konerko, then Vazquez for multiple players.
Trade prospects for Coco Crisp. It would almost have to be some combination of Gio/DLS and Sweeney/Quentin to get him.

If the move is something like #2, then I think it obviously is time to wait for a new GM.

At least the Sox have the best blog, damnit.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2007 10:48 PM CST up reply actions

It's on to Plan 1F

1F? Insert pun here!

[cowley]:

Williams said Tuesday that free-agent outfielder Andruw Jones ''is not on our list,'' and free-agent outfielder Aaron Rowand still wants more years than the Sox's liking. That leaves Japanese outfielder Kosuke Fukudome as Plan 1-F.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2007 9:55 PM CST reply actions

Good.

We're methodically working down our list ; )

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2007 10:05 PM CST up reply actions

1-F

is an upgrade from last season's 4-F club.

Erstad, Pods, Crede, Uribe, Gonzalez,Count, the bullpen; Not fit for action.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2007 10:21 PM CST up reply actions

LOL!

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2007 10:26 PM CST up reply actions

no barton to tampa bay?

[BA]:

Earlier today, Indians outfielder Brian Barton was the odds-on favorite to go No. 1 in the Rule 5 draft Thursday. But hold the phone.

One source close to the Rays says Tampa Bay will not take Barton, and if they don't sell their pick like they did last year, it will likely be for a piece to boost their bullpen and not a position player.

"They're not hot on Barton at all," said a scout from a National League club. "And while he might be the best talent out there this year, there are a lot of questions about his (knee) surgery that he's kind of taken a backseat."

So who's hot and who's not? Let's take a look in the rumors floating out there in this sprawling venue that is the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center . . .

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2007 10:08 PM CST reply actions

don't look too much in it

[mlb.com]:

The White Sox and Rockies are believed to have interest in second baseman Chris Burke, who lost his job when the club signed Kaz Matsui. A source from the White Sox downplayed the club's interest, however, advising to "not look too much into it."

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2007 10:12 PM CST reply actions

Actually

this should be a good day for those people who were pointing towards 2010. The Tigers have dramatically weakened their 2010 team. Although Cabrera may be around then they'll be paying market price for him.

Sheffield, Rogers and Pudge will be long gone. Robertson and Willis will be either gone or ineffective. Guillen will be a below average 1B. Granderson will still be good, but now expensive. There's a 50/50 chance Porcello will have blown his elbow out by then. They'll have tons of holes to fill and very few if any young cheap players.

I'm not a big advocate of getting Fukudome at this point. He's likely to be expensive and not suited for CF. Everything I've seen since my discussion with Larry on Fuku has been something along the lines of "Better suited for RF, but could play CF". That sounds like what they used to say about Soriano. I'm betting Fuku gets 3/48 with the way the market is accelerating. I'd rather take Cameron for 2 years/20 million (if that's enough).

This is not the end of the world. It's a 3-5 win 2008 improvement for the Tigs, with diminishing returns thereafter.

by bhoov on Dec 4, 2007 10:43 PM CST reply actions

cheery

the tigers will also have boatloads of money to spend with all those players coming off the books - not to mention them just having boatloads of money in general. and i'm sure they'll find a way to replenish their system, just like the yankees did. the tigers are the whatever weight designation ape you want to put on them in the AL central. it's a gamble to go with the sort of team they have right now - but the payoff is huge.

by larry on Dec 4, 2007 10:50 PM CST up reply actions

Don't get

me wrong Larry. I agree 100% that the Tigs made a great deal and I would have done the same. However, the Tigs are never gonna have NYY money and therefore they will need at least some pre-arb or at least non free-agent talent to compete at a high level. When Granderson, Bonderman, Willis and Cabrera become compensated at their free-agent values they'll need some players to take over their value.

Our payroll will be similar to their payroll, but we'll have Fields, Richar, Danks, Gio/DLS, Quentin on the cheap AND salary from JD, Thome, Contreras etc. freed up. They'll just have the salary freed up and a bunch of holes to fill. Of course our prospects could tank. Which is why I'd take the shot at the ring with MC and worry about 2010 later if I had the opportunity.

Tigs did the right thing but trading 7 of your top 11 prospects is not without long term consequences.

by bhoov on Dec 4, 2007 11:19 PM CST up reply actions

all i'm saying

is that i hear these long-term projections of a team all the time. sometimes they're right. sometimes they're not. the tigers have been very savvy so far. i'm not going to bet that they aren't the same in the future. 2 years is a long, long time in baseball - it certainly has been for the tigers.

by larry on Dec 5, 2007 9:18 AM CST up reply actions

by the way

Fukudome is a solid OF who can play all 3 positions, is a plus defender even if his arm is affected by the elbow surgery, and is somewhere between Ichiro Suzuki and Hideki Matsui on the hitting side of things. He's got more power than Ichiro, but not as much as Matsui. Better avg than Matsui, not as much as Ichiro. With Jose Guillen as one of the best options, Fukudome is a very solid player who's getting a lot of interest.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=390

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/owensje01.shtm

by larry on Dec 5, 2007 1:09 PM CST up reply actions