John Danks will be your 5th starter

by The Cheat on Mar 23, 2007 11:31 PM CDT in White Sox News

I was really excited Friday afternoon -- and no, it wasn't because I somehow still held onto a slim lead in the South Side Sox Bracket Showdown -- It had everything to do with the first televised battle of the spring between John Danks and Gavin Floyd. The rain-shortened contest was a bit of a letdown. And the truth is the winner may have already been decided by the time the first pitch was thrown, as the surprise roster move of Sean Tracey off the 40-man roster (He was subsequently claimed by Baltimore.) seems to have tipped the Sox hand.

Danks absence from the Sox 40-man roster would necessitate a move should they chose to bring the 21 year-old left-hander north. That move appears to be Sean Tracey's departure.

While neither Danks nor Floyd were particularly impressive on Friday, my personal choice for the 5th starter role would be Danks based on the fact that he seems more likely to succeed thanks to his ability to throw strikes. Ozzie shares my sentiment.

"The way he throws, Danks should be on the club," Guillen said. "He throws strikes and attacks the [strike] zone. What I see, I like and I think [general manager] Kenny Williams will agree with what I say."

Of course, that quote comes immediately after Danks, who entered the game having issued just one walk this spring, struggled to command all of his pitches and walked 3 in his scoreless 4 innings of work. Danks was helped by a couple of dumb baserunning plays by the Rockies, a pickoff move, and a double play on the first pitch after a failed sacrifice attempt. His box score may have looked pretty, and the truth is not a single ball was hit hard off of him, but he really only had to record two outs in each inning.

I'm not trying to diminish Danks' outing. It's just that if he threw like he did Friday in his first start at the big league level, there's a good chance the Sox would see a different result.

Of course, you can spin that completely in the other direction too. Danks got through 4 innings unscathed against a major league line-up without his best stuff or his usual command. It's all a matter of perspective.

Floyd's outing is tougher to spin. He did have to deal with some nasty weather and came in to pitch an inning earlier than expected, but 5 runs is hard to talk away when your main competition is putting up goose eggs.

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Danks

I thought John looked pretty darn good, so I would take the opposite perspective and say that he put up zeroes without his best stuff and I think he has the ability to do that during the regular season. I saw it as, a pitcher is not always going to have his best stuff, but still needs to perform. He induced the weak groundouts when he needed them. Another thing that I really liked was he really doesn't like issuing walks, he gets upset when he doesn't throw strikes. He's a perfectionist. Which I see as an asset.

This was the first time I had seen either he or Gavin but I was impressed with both. I thought Gavin really got the short end of the stick and I hope his outing isn't looked at with too much weight. There was a 10 degree drop in temperature and it seemed to be raining pretty hard. Hard enough that it probably is a significant rain delay when the games count. His curve looked nasty and he has good movement on his fastball. I hope that they can harness that kid.

But it seemed real clear that John Danks needs and will be the fifth starter.

And on a side note Dayn Perry over at Fox Sports finished up his top 100 prospects list. Alex Gordon was number 1 and who was 2? Chris Young.

by rebstock on Mar 24, 2007 12:47 AM CDT reply actions

If Chris Young wins the N.L. Rookie of the Year...

and Brian Anderson tanks again (if he actually gets playing time), people are going to hate Hobby Baskwez and the trade even more.

by SSH2005 on Mar 24, 2007 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions

Where are the haters now?

Has anybody checked Brandon McCarthy's spring stats? Toddy is his fourth start and he's only pitched 8 innings. His ERA is like 7.88. What's up with that? Kenny you sly dog.

by chisox on Mar 24, 2007 7:47 AM CDT reply actions

Spring stats don't mean much but...

Danks seems to throw as hard as McCarthy (90-91 MPH) with more movement and he's also a lefty. If he can learn to throw a good changeup like McCarthy, he's going to be a stud.

by SSH2005 on Mar 24, 2007 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions

Eduardo Perez news...

Sox Notes:

Perez remains day-to-day as he continues to recover from a strained right calf suffered while hitting a home run on March 14 against Chris Capuano of the Brewers. He is expected to return to action Sunday against the Rangers.

If Danks is getting the one open spot on the 40-man roster from waiving Sean Tracey, we will need to waive/trade another player to make room for Eduardo Perez.

by SSH2005 on Mar 24, 2007 10:20 AM CDT reply actions

Javier Vazquez for Chris Young trade

If it was to go down today I would make that trade again. I think starting pitching is that important. Alex Gordon is a bonafide stud and future seasonal all-star. Chris Young to me could be a Tori Hunter type player without as good defense. Delmon Young is a better player but the columnist ranks him 3rd. He needs to stop smoking crack. Nobody over Baseball America ranks Cris in their top 10, and shouldn't get any kudos for his spring effort since he's barely hitting above .200. I have never heard Dayn Perry's name uttered in baseball circle's as a great judge of talent, so his opinion caries no weight if you ask me. Cris could become a very good player no doubt, but to rank him the second best prospect in baseball. What about Daiske Matsuzaka, Cameron Maybin(not even on his top 10, WHAT!) or Justin Upton? Dayn Perry to go back to wherever they plucked him from because baseball's not his forte.

by chisox on Mar 24, 2007 11:12 AM CDT reply actions

I wouldn't make that trade again....

It was a bad trade -- it happens. Good GMs sometimes make bad trades. Didn't Josh Byrnes basically give Uggla away?

Young is a fantastic talent. He's coming to the bigs with great on-base skills. IMO, it's rare that a player like that doesn't perform very well. He has power and speed and plays a premium defensive position. Rating him as the #2 prospect in baseball seems pretty reasonable to me.

The bottom line is that the Sox would have been a better team last year if they hadn't traded for Vazquez. Couple that with AZ getting 6 years of Chris Young, and it's clear that it was a pretty disastrous trade. But those things happen...let's just hope Gio Gonzalez explodes and we can all post about what a genius Williams was to get him back for a year of Freddy Garcia.

by hitlesswonder on Mar 24, 2007 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Oneli Perez

Can be removed immediatly.

by chisox on Mar 24, 2007 11:14 AM CDT reply actions

RE: Oneli Perez

Perez wouldn't be the one who would get removed. If someone goes, it'll probably be Rogowski. I'm guessing Kenny is trying to get something of use for one of his 40-man AAAA types who really don't have much of a shot with the Sox ie Phillips, Rogo, and to a lesser extent Reynoso.

by CWSKeith on Mar 24, 2007 12:27 PM CDT reply actions

hitlesswonder....

Your a funny guy. "The sox would have been better team last year if they hadn't traded for Vazquez". Wow! What a statement. You are so positive that Chris Young will be a everyday all-star. After reading the criteria of Dayn Perry prospect list I can see which angle he is coming from. I agree with all his criteria's. However I still have a problem ranking Cris #2. But truly what made this trade so bad? If you come to the realization that starting pitchers (especially in the American league) has become very mediocre, you will realize that this was a good trade.

I don't think these numbers should be taken lightly.

Year      Team      G     GS     W     L     SV     CG     SHO     IP     H     R     ER     HR     BB     K     ERA     WHIP     BAA
1998     MON     33     32     5     15     0     0     0     172.1     196     121     116     31     68     139     6.06     1.53     .292
1999     MON     26     26     9     8     0     3     1     154.2     154     98     86     20     52     113     5.00     1.33     .255
2000     MON     33     33     11     9     0     2     1     217.2     247     104     98     24     61     196     4.05     1.42     .286
2001     MON     32     32     16     11     0     5     3     223.2     197     92     85     24     44     208     3.42     1.08     .235
2002     MON     34     34     10     13     0     2     0     230.1     243     111     100     28     49     179     3.91     1.27     .271
2003     MON     34     34     13     12     0     4     1     230.2     198     93     83     28     57     241     3.24     1.11     .229
2004     NYY     32     32     14     10     0     0     0     198.0     195     114     108     33     60     150     4.91     1.29     .255
2005     ARI     33     33     11     15     0     3     1     215.2     223     112     106     35     46     192     4.42     1.25     .266
2006     CWS     33     32     11     12     0     1     0     202.2     206     116     109     23     56     184     4.84     1.29     .259

by chisox on Mar 24, 2007 12:56 PM CDT reply actions

You're certainly correct...

Those numbers shouldn't, in fact, be taken lightly. Vazquez last above average season as a starter was over three years ago, over 600 innings ago. So, despite the fact that ZiPS tells us every year that Vazquez' great K/BB ratio will lead to a 4.15 ERA, it's tough to be excited.

Look -- I like Vazquez. I like the new deal that Kenny gave him, and I still think there's a chance that he 'breaks out' one of these years. But that was an awful deal. The Sox gave up the best 'total package' prospect that the system has developed since Frank Thomas (?) for a project-type pitcher. There was NO reason for the Sox to overpay, especially since McCarthy could have stepped in last year and probably done the same that Vazquez did (maybe about 15 less IP). It was a bad trade the day it was made, and it's going to look worse if/when Young starts playing every day for the D'Backs.

by CWSKeith on Mar 24, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions

of course he's right, no doubt about it

javy MAY have a good year, young MAY not, javy MAY be more valuable at the market but as far as last year goes javy was a negative for the team

"The sox would have been better team last year if they hadn't traded for Vazquez"

yes, the team would've been stronger if javy wasn't there

take javy and replace him with a rock and the sox would/ve been better of

javy wouldn't be pitching
bmac wouldn't be in the bullpen
pods wouldn't be leading off (ozzie dependant)

by The Wizard on Mar 24, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions

CWSKeith

Fair enough. I totally forgot about Reynoso. Kenny did ask both Rogo and Tracey what they wanted. Rogo wanted to stay Tracey wanted a change of scenery. Who knows how it will pan out.

by chisox on Mar 24, 2007 1:07 PM CDT reply actions

LOL

You guys are funny. All of a sudden BMac is as good as Vazquez and Young is suddenly a leadoff hitter. BMac most likely will stink up the joint. He had marginal stuff in my opinion. Young will probably become .280 20hr 30sb annually. I can stomach that for Vazquez. Brian Anderson plays just as good CF. I think he match the avg and hr potential. Sweeney can also match avg and HR. Are you guy really expecting Soriano type numbers?

by chisox on Mar 24, 2007 3:17 PM CDT reply actions

No one said that McCarthy is better than Vazquez,

but Vazquez almost put up a 5.00 ERA last season. You don't think McCarthy could have came close to that? It was a bad trade, period, end of story.

And are you joking? You can stomach giving up a .280 / 20 HR / 30 SB CENTER FIELDER? ARE YOU NUTS?

by SSH2005 on Mar 24, 2007 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions

we're already crowing young?

obviously it doesn't look too good right now but i've seen quite a few can't miss rookies spending their prime years as guest instructors at seventh grade baseball clinics in podunk, missouri. the story isn't ended until this guy produces at the major league level. i think he will but i never close the book on a trade like this after one season.

by larry on Mar 24, 2007 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions

I never crowned Chris Young...

chisox said that he could live with giving up a .280 / 20 HR / 30 SB center fielder for Vazquez. I sure couldn't.

by SSH2005 on Mar 24, 2007 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

chisox reminds me of all the homers at WSI...

I bet he posts there as well.

by SSH2005 on Mar 24, 2007 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Vazquez ERA

Yeah it was high but no sox starter posted a ERA under 4.50 last year. A 4.00 ERA has become the new 3.00. It's a sad fact but that's the reality of the business.

PS: What's WSI

by chisox on Mar 24, 2007 4:48 PM CDT reply actions