Sox beat sub-.500 team from bad division in lesser of two leagues
When I read that Nick Masset would be getting the start on Sunday, my first thought was "white flag." That thought had two meanings; one, the Cubs famously fly a white flag on the scoreboard to indicate a victory, and two, the white flag is the universal sign for surrender. Needless to say, I didn't have a good feeling about the Sox chances Sunday. In a trend that continued in the gamethread, my gut was wrong. Way wrong.
It seems odd that Masset has been at his best in a White Sox uniform when he's pitching for multiple innings. In the Texas organization, he was a starter with better stuff than his numbers showed. He didn't really begin to flourish until he was moved to the pen late last year. That's when the Sox scouted him, and that's where we got the reports of a high-velocity guy with a good curveball. For the most part, we haven't really seen the guy from those scouting reports. That changed Sunday.
Masset's fastball actually seemed to be faster (93-94 MPH) in his first career start than in his relief efforts this season. Once he got his control worked out in the first inning, he cruised through 5+ innings. His fastball had tons of life to it, and he was expertly locating it at the bottom of the zone. It wasn't until he tired in the 6th that the Cubs hit anything hard.
I'm still not sold on Masset as anything more than a back of the rotation guy, but his performance Sunday puts him in front of the other spot starter options in Gavin Floyd and Charlie Haeger. That outing Sunday was our first real glimpse at why Sox scouts seemed so enamored with Masset.
Just wait until the weather heats up
Yeah right. The thermometer read 47 degrees at game time Sunday at Wrigley Field, and it felt a whole lot colder with the wind coming in off the lake, but the Sox bats briefly woke up with a 7-run outburst with 2-out in the 7th inning. (I'm pretty sure it was the first 5-run inning of the Sox season, but I'm unsure how to easily look that up.) It was the Sox first 10-run output of the season, surely the last of any American League team to reach that mark. It was just the second game of the season that the Sox have won by more than 3 runs.
I don't have much to say on the offensive outburst. Let's see if it lasts. Zambrano was very close to escaping the 7th twice. He was up on Thome 0-2, and might not have had to face him if the home plate ump had eagle eyes on the Uribe "HBP."
The tenuous nature of a lead/(close game) was something of a theme for the weekend. We saw two big 2-out rallies, and 4 bullpen implosions. I'm a little worried about the bullpen which has been highly ineffective the last 10 days or so. Thankfully, the offense finally took some pressure off a group that's had almost no margin for error all season. The Sox need one, preferably both, of those two groups to perform to their potential win with any consistency.
Get off my lawn, you filthy triplets!
The aging process generally occurs so slowly that you don't even notice until the day you're unable to do a simple, mundane task with which you've never previously had trouble. That's exactly what happened to Jermaine Dye this weekend. Dye has always looked slow, in part because he's 6'5" and runs like a cross between a giraffe and a duck, but he's never looked as old and slow as he did this weekend running to pick up balls that he was willing to concede as triples. In a three game span, we saw his transformation from right fielder to DH, or, at best, a left fielder with limited range and a good arm.
After giving up 4 triples this weekend, White Sox pitching has now allowed 12 triples on the season. They're on pace to allow about 50 three-baggers. To give that number some perspective, they allowed 31 triples last season, when Mackowiak was flailing around in CF, and 23 triples in '05 when they had one of the best defenses in baseball. I bring up those stats because, as we saw this weekend, most triples are to right or center field. And as much as some of you think I hate Darin Erstad, I'll concede that he's only misplayed one ball into a triple this season. He's not the reason for the barrage of triples this year.
There's rarely a time, especially in USCF, when the ball leaves the bat and my first thought is "that's a triple." Often called the most exciting play in baseball, triples are fluky because they're almost always an effort/speed issue. And unfortunately for us, it doesn't appear that Jermaine has the speed to limit them anymore.
Rob Mackowiak and Tadahito Iguchi are tied for the team lead in triples with one a piece.
Injury Updates
- Jim Thome came back off the DL a day early to pinch hit. My initial thought upon seeing his at-bat was that he wasn't feeling 100%. He didn't seem to be letting it fly with his usual zest. He only swung the bat twice, so any long-term judgment is premature, he could have been fooled by the pitches and was just trying to put the bat on the ball. But that's exactly the reason that I thought his bat looked a little slow, Thome never tries to just put the bat on the ball.
- Joe Crede finally admitted that his back was bothering him. Duh. He had a cortisone shot in his back following the game and will be out for at least the next couple of games. With as unproductive as he's been this season, I'd tell him he's headed to the DL for 15 days and call up Josh Fields, who has been heating up in Charlotte. In the month of May, Fields has batted .292/.398/.514 with a K/BB ratio inching ever closer to 1:1 (19/14 in May). I'll never be a big fan of Fields until he proves he can produce at the big league level, but I think he can put up an Iguchi-like line right now ('07 Iguchi, low average, decent OBP), which is better than anything Crede or his backups (Cintron and Ozuna) have done this season.
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147 comments
Comments
Thomer
As for the bats, Paulie still looked like he was struggling to me, despite the double. JD seems like he's breaking out and who knows about Thome for now. If we're only 1/3 on that trio, there's no reason to expect anything but crap on our run scoring. On the other hand, crap would be an improvement. AJ and Tad seem to have figured it out, Uribe looks about as good as he's going to, and LF and CF aren't going to get any better. 3B is going to be a question mark from here on out, because we don't know the extent of the injury. If we can cobble together an effective lineup, I think optimally it would include both Sweeney and Fields. Of course, I thought that (and I think most here did) coming into the season.
Wild card? Pods, maybe. His current line is pretty decent and if he's the recipient of the good luck on this team (somebody has to be, right?) that's an unexpectedly productive spot in the lineup.
by colintj on May 21, 2007 1:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sox committed to bench players...why?
In particular, I don't think playing Ozuna is a good move. His defense is not good, anywhere. And, as a casual fan, I have to say that his approach at the plate seems lousy. The last time I criticized him he went out and got on base twice, so maybe this will spur him on. But, signing him based on a flukey 2006 batting average was not a good move.
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 1:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
McPhereson is a bad example
Fields has demonstrated much more ability in the strikezone judgment department. He's actually increased his walk total at every level. He'll be able to stick at the majors in spite of his contact rate (striking out in 39-30% of at-bats) because of his eye
by The Cheat on May 21, 2007 1:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 5 elusion
by rebstock on May 21, 2007 3:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey Cheat......
by stanchar on May 21, 2007 6:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stats out your wahoo
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2007_orgbat.shtml
All Pitching stats
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2007_orgpit.shtml
by ElDiablo on May 21, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul Sullivan
Shame on Buehrle, but Sullivan is one colossal douchebag. Why doesn't he stick to writing about the Cubs and their useless organization?
Why does the Tribune print this crap? Oh, yeah, that's right, they still own the Cubs.
by thekever on May 21, 2007 8:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, shame on Buehrle.
Stay tuned.
by ballyb on May 21, 2007 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As previously mentioned,
- "I'm sick of AJ and want to to get him out of here or I'm not re-signing."
- "I like Toby Hall and figure he'll be here longer than AJ."
- "AJ's not the leader of this team - we of the silent majority - Paulie/Dye/JC/me - are."
by winningugly on May 21, 2007 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Shame on MB" ?
by Chiburb on May 21, 2007 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think MB should apologize for anything
by larry on May 21, 2007 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why not?
another thing you can probably take from this interview is support for ozzie. MB's language is obviously far more sedate and thought out but he pretty much said the same thing as ozzie did. this interview will help the whole ozzie aspect of the story peter away.
by larry on May 21, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't like it.
Your 2nd thought on the comment in relation to Ozzie is a point well taken.
by ballyb on May 21, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can all go on
That being understood, MB didn't say anything to disparage AJ; his saying that AJ's comments were a slap in the face to Hall were actually perfect. I mean here's a guy who battled back from injury to return to a team he had yet to play a game for, and this is the welcome he gets? And remember when criticizing MB for his comments, the root of all this is the AJ/North sideshow--what MB said is a product of that.
AJ's an ass. The entire sporting world knows this. We should've all assumed it would only be a matter of time before he decided to once again bite the hands that feeds. What happens from here is AJ's decision.
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buehrle's been one of the most honest
I doubt its indicative of any larger rift between AJ and the clubhouse.
by chrome on May 21, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Paul Sullivan?
AJ's "problem", according to Sullivan and #56 is a desire to play. In the past three weeks, he, Sir Grinds A Lot, and the pitching staff were the only ones who kept the ChiSox afloat. Can you blame AJ for wanting to stay in the lineup?
by thekever on May 21, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
by larry on May 21, 2007 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad...
The next step for him is season-ending surgery. We'll probably get that announcement around the All-Star Break.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How much value?
Sure, it would have been better to trade him for something -- the Sox gambled and lost. But I don't think it was a stupid gamble. Now, re-signing Pods is a differet story.
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
by RME JICO on May 21, 2007 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm sure some numbnut GM would have taken him
by larry on May 21, 2007 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems a little premature
Furthermore--and I've said this before with the Freddy trade and when fans grope about why the Sox couldn't get more--it's remiss to think that other teams were unaware of Crede's back issues; that certainly played into any deal KW attempted and drastically decreased his value. Other teams have scouts/player personnel too.
But hey, on the brightside, maybe we'll see some Fields (God willing--if Pablito becomes the regular 3rd baseman...ugh.).
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see...
And I think someone would have given up something for Crede this past winter, bad back and all. It might not have been as much as a lot of fans would have wanted, and we'd see Mark Gonzalez and Jay Mariotti whining about how the Sox didn't get much for him, but the time was ripe to deal him. Overripe, in fact.
Ken Williams can't keep holding onto all his aging vets until they're worthless. The idea is to sell high. He's shown that he's willing to add pieces to a decent team in an attempt to "win now", but what remains to be seen is if he can read the writing on the wall and re-build before it's too late.
For instance, I think Williams needs to deal Buehrle and Contreras before the trading deadline.
I'm hoping Dye puts together a good few weeks so the Sox can get something for him, too.
Probably nobody will want Konerko or Pierzynski right now, but if Thome can stay healthy until July, he could bring back a nice little package. Does he have a no-trade clause?
The only way this team gets interesting is if they bring in a bunch of young talent and start over. Otherwise, it's going to be a long, long year, and an even longer slide into perennial mediocrity or worse.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad fact is...
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if your idea of a good trade
by larry on May 21, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have high expectations...
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind...
And I think the Sox would get something decent for Buehrle and Contreras. People consistently underrate how valuable even average starting pitching is. Lots of teams have hitters. Lots of teams need pitching.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing that would have happened
Ugh. For whatever reason, Rogers just has it in for Williams this season. Cotts? Blum? Vizcaino? It takes talent to take one bad trade (the Vazquez trade) and try to blow that up into an epidemic of poor moves. If Williams can be criticized for this year's team it's that he wasn't active enough -- he should have brought in another major league outfielder and an actual leadoff man.
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of that group
by larry on May 21, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
And I'm still not convinced that the Vazquez trade was a bad one. If Chris Young turns into a perennial All-Star, then okay, but so far, he hasn't shown that. A .307 OBP is not impressive.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the vasquez trade isn't a bad one
by larry on May 21, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been playing much better lately.
.317/.333/.500.
by ballyb on May 21, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't even read this bedwetter.
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's only 1 player on that list I'd take
by colintj on May 21, 2007 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Firts Quarter Report Card
CF - good d, but he's also your leadoff man with OBP of .300 and OPS of .650 which are just about what you'd expect from him for a full season, blech
RF - maybe his O is finally coming around, but his D has been atrocious
3B - good D and poor O, and now his back is acting up so this position is completely up in the air
SS - good D and below average O, about what's expected
2B - average O, losing his range defensively
1B - has turned into a one-dimensional pull hitter, has always been below average D.
C - average O, can't throw out a runner
Bullpen - showing major cracks now
Starting Pitching - above average, only thing keeping us respectable.
All in all, I'd say very fortunate to be two games over .500, there's major flaws on this team that I can't see them overcoming.
by ChicagoPete on May 21, 2007 12:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd actually say...
He's not an embarrassment like Mackowiak, but he's not going to make the whole outfield better like Rowand did.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not an Erstad fan,
But we really need a superstar out there because our LFs are marginal at best and Dye has been painful to watch in RF recently.
Error wise, excepting Friday, we seem OK. But range is a completely different story. 4 triples in a 3 game series?
by ballyb on May 21, 2007 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grades
CF: C-
RF: C+ (salvaged by the past week)
3RD: C-
SS: D+
2B: C
1B: D-
C: C+
Pen: C+
Rotation: A-
Bench: F
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just goes to show
by ballyb on May 21, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds claim Pedro Lopez off waivers...
At 23, Lopez still has youth on his side. However, it doesn't look like he's ever going to hit. He was at .242/.307/.323 in 161 at-bats for Triple-A Charlotte this season. He's a downgrade from Ray Olmedo as defensive-minded infield insurance.
Link.
by SSH2005 on May 21, 2007 1:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It probably doesn't need to be said, but...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Devil Rays looking to trade an outfielder...
Kenny should be looking at all three as we speak. Get on it, Kenny.
by SSH2005 on May 21, 2007 1:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately
by larry on May 21, 2007 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'd want...
And Baldelli is hurt. Stay far away from that guy.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was firmly in the "Get Baldelli" camp
His hamstring is every bit as injury prone as Podsednik's groin or Crede's back, it's not a question of if but when and for how long will he be injured. You can't trade anything of real value for a guy who you know is going to miss large chunks of time.
I'm beyond surprised that the article seems to rule out trading the petulant one. I thought they wanted to get his angriness out of their hair once they could get a good return. His quick start and zero clubhouse incidents has to have upped his value.
by The Cheat on May 21, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
has he had trouble with the hammy before?
by larry on May 21, 2007 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has a history.
by winningugly on May 21, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that's what the Rays are actually demanding...
by colintj on May 21, 2007 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While you're probably right,
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're nuts.
In any case, Baldelli's currently sitting on the DL.
To me, he's essentially a poor man's Aaron Rowand.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone seriously think
If so, Baldelli will be on Tampa Bay awhile.
by ballyb on May 21, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem as I see it...
by Toonderstrook on May 21, 2007 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
And every so often, a GM is dumb enough to do it (Victor Zambrano for Scott Kazmir).
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JRE is right...
I was thinking Baldelli would be a decent pickup this offseason, but he really does have health issues and he has a career .324 OBP. He's cheap and entering his prime, but I don't know that he'd be healthy and/or hit enough to justify trading 2 young big league pitchers. Don't do it...
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait till the offseason...
For this season, if the Sox want to trade in a probably futile attempt at a playoff push I think a trade for a currently underperforming LF that has some pop is the best you can hope for (hopefully buying low). Maybe trading junk for Kevin Mench? Or something better for Garett Atkins?
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm beating this horse as if I can
Pull the trigger, KW, pull it. They can't lose money forever and stay in business. If we have talent anywhere it's in SP, so deal from strength.
by winningugly on May 21, 2007 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crede
by tailgater on May 21, 2007 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would trade Danks
by Jbasic89 on May 21, 2007 2:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't give up Danks for either of those guys.
by SSH2005 on May 21, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
by The Wizard on May 21, 2007 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for delmon young?
by larry on May 21, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not crazy.
I wouldn't trade Danks for any of the Rays outfielders, though. The Sox need him.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right, totally is a strong word...
by The Wizard on May 21, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even crazy is strong
by larry on May 21, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
by The Wizard on May 21, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
merkin on the 12-man pitching staff
by The Wizard on May 21, 2007 2:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I see.
I don't get the team's obsession with Boone Logan. Sisco is incredibly wild, but he at least has good stuff. Logan is a BP pitcher.
But who else is going to do the job? Carlos Vasquez is intriguing, but not ready. Paulino Reynoso isn't any better than Logan.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bret Prinz?
As for Logan versus Sisco, I have to disagree. It's ridiculous because they've both been bad but Logan at 22 has way more control than Sisco at 24. And Logan shifted to his current delivery just in the last couple of years I think. I'm more optimistic about Logan becoming a useful major league pitcher than Sisco (whose WHIP is at 2.0 I think).
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
logan has also cut down on the walks
by larry on May 21, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong...
Logan just has crappy stuff. He can fool hitters in the International League, but not in the majors. He's the very definition of an AAAA reliever.
Neither one belongs on a big-league roster, and wouldn't be if they didn't happen to throw with their left hands.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To early to give up on Logan
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In his MLB career..
Logan can strike out minor-league hitters by getting them to chase those sloppy pitches low and out of the zone. MLB hitters just spit at those, and he's forced to serve up a cookie, which they hit hard. He's not a good pitcher, and probably never will be.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logan vs. LH
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't hold what he did last year
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark
by dantesox on May 21, 2007 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand by...
92-94 is mediocre for the majors, and Logan is incapable of consistently throwing that curve (which I don't think is great, merely average) for strikes. Opposing hitters sit on that mediocre fastball.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
incapable?
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I
by dantesox on May 21, 2007 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sisco needs to be gone
by winningugly on May 21, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that case...
Again, he relies on hitters to chase those breaking pitches, and good major-league hitters just won't.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't watch much baseball, do you jerry
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Boone Logan's...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the
by Toonderstrook on May 21, 2007 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've seen this hate you have for boone before
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad he loves no talent grinders too much to go
by colintj on May 21, 2007 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we wait for the
jerry owens can replace pods...
by The Wizard on May 21, 2007 2:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How can they trade?
They can't move any of their highly paid position players like JD, PK, Iguchi or Crede because they're all underachieving right now and won't bring anything in return. You can't trade AJ because we don't have another catcher.
About the only valuable trading commodity they have is their starting pitching, and if you do that you're gutting the only strength on the team and pretty much assuring a bad season.
I GOT IT! Someone out there must think they need a grinder to get over the hump, can we get anything for Erstad before he gets injured?
by ChicagoPete on May 21, 2007 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you're apparently of the school
by larry on May 21, 2007 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
This team has a notable lack of decent young position players, and trading away some veteran starting pitchers could resolve that.
And I think the Sox could get a lot. Do you think the Cardinals, for instance, would let the Brewers get Buehrle cheap? Or the Mets would let the Braves get Contreras for a song? Most teams could use an extra starting pitcher, so the bidding could escalate rapidly.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta agree with ya Hawk
by ChicagoPete on May 21, 2007 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If....
Which Sox pitcher in minors do you think could handle the bigs right now? I honestly don't see anyone. AAA is filled with pseudo-prospects like Floyd and Phillips and in AA only Gonzalez might have a chance and I think he'd get lit up with his current control. Am I missing someone?
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put up with...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tone of post...
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably not milledge
as shaftr said, masset has auditioned well for such a role. if you want a minor leaguer, i'd probably go with haeger.
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
by shaftr on May 21, 2007 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's probably irrational exuberance
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
will he waive it for a trade to the mets
by The Wizard on May 21, 2007 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
by larry on May 21, 2007 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and jose contreras is more dependable?
by larry on May 21, 2007 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now,
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with that
at any rate, there would be plenty of teams interested in a contreras. the problem is the no trade clause. he's not going to just any team so whomever he is willing to go to would be able to hold us up for him.
by larry on May 21, 2007 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Dunn
What would it take?
by ChicagoPete on May 21, 2007 3:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Insanity by the White Sox
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not that slow, 7 SB this year
We've got a huge hole in LF, and with Crede questionable he replaces a big RBI man in the lineup.
by ChicagoPete on May 21, 2007 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we have such great defenders out there now
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As bad...
In short, though, the Sox don't need him. This season's a bust - they shouldn't be trading away young talent to try to turn a 71-win season into a 75-win season.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure i buy that
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
71 wins
by Winning is Fung on May 21, 2007 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, then...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn has a .905 OPS, I could care less...
by SSH2005 on May 21, 2007 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His D is average for a LF
I think it would take Garland to get him. If it doesn't work, Sox have unloaded JG's salary for next season and it's a wash this season moneywise. Masset takes his place in the rotation.
With no Crede Sox are DESPERATE for offense.
by ChicagoPete on May 21, 2007 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jon Garland...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garland for Dunn?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against trading Garland--in the offseason where we'd be able to get much, much more. Never make trades out of desperation. (Beane 101)
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not for dunn
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm of the opinion
(Plus, I still harbor hopes for Buerhle returning in 08)
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha Pete!
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's one of those three true outcomes hitters
reds would want pitching from us.
by larry on May 21, 2007 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jumping the Gun
Starters have been really SOLID (not "above average.") And, my closer has been dependable.
We haven't hit the ball ALL YEAR, we've had a pretty tough schedule and we're 2 games above .500. Other then the Crosstown Classic (which is a free-for-all every year) we've been winning our latest series'.
Our bullpen will be fine, there are some good arms there... McD was a guy I always wanted - he'll be fine, and Thor. will be fine. Masset can pitch out of the pen, proven last year. Sisco is a bum.
2B, RF, Catcher all just came out of slumps and showing signs of life. Hall and Thome are back.
Lots of games left with the Tribe and Los Tigres. We can beat them both... Minny is garbage with or without Mauer.
We're gonna make a run boyz... keep the faith!
by P-Hose08 on May 21, 2007 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Here's the problem
Kenny is in a tough spot. If he were to do that -- say he traded two-three of the veteran players -- he's pretty much giving up on the season. While that might be the correct move from a baseball perspective, it could be financially devistating for the Sox. A majority of the fan-base would see this as white flag number two; columnists all over the city would call for Williams' head on a platter, and I think most of the casual fans would follow right along.
I'm not saying that Kenny should make decisions based on what the casual fan wants -- far, FAR from it, believe me. I'm just saying the Sox would be in for a financial hit if Williams totally blew up this team, and I don't think the Sox can really go into a full 'rebuilding' mode. We'd see less people at the ballpark and, in turn, a lesser payroll -- with everyone in the division having up-and-coming talent, our one advantage over everyone is our money (as of right now) -- and that's never a bad thing to have.
As far as some of the predictions -- come on -- 71 wins? I understand that the starting pitching is pitching a little bit over their heads right now, but for the 71 wins to actually happen, the SPs would have to fall drastically with the bullpen and offense showing NO improvement.
I'm not saying the Sox are a playoff team, but for all the bad luck the Sox have fallen on in the early going (pretty much everything going wrong except for the SP), I don't see how anyone can say this team will finish with less than 81 wins. And with a little luck, who knows -- if the starters keep their collective ERA around 4.00, we should be in for a fun race through September, even if we're the ones doing the chasing all year.
by CWSKeith on May 21, 2007 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The problem is...
Or you can work towards fielding a decent young team in 2008 that will be fun to watch and might be in contention in 2009, and you have the payroll room to add pieces once the team is in position to contend.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again
If you want to make an argument that the Sox need to do more for the overall good of building a fantastic team fine. But please stop this nonsense about how the pitching will fall apart, the hitting won't get better and the defense will suck.
Why don't I see similar rankings and predictions for all the other AL contenders? Because all their grades are so great?
Again the pre seasons rankings were based off the starting pitching totally sucking. It hasnt. But some how the other teams pitching WILL hold up.
I may be a clown in rose colored glasses but IF they remain healthy enough for the main players to get their games in the Sox will be there to the end. Might not have enough to win but enough to compete. And in a major city 4.5 out of first and wildcard with only 1 team ahead of you, you don't start talking about tearing apart a team.
You can and should be able to compete and rebuild at the same time.
by Tdogg on May 21, 2007 5:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And how, exactly...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you Jerry
I think another piece is finding undervalued talent which the White Sox seem to do quite well.
by Tdogg on May 21, 2007 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can and should
by larry on May 21, 2007 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a good team...
At this point, I do agree the Sox might as well wait till the deadline to sell off players. But trading any of the Sox top prospects for help this season I think would be a mistake.
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with your assessment
by larry on May 21, 2007 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do have...
But I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox finished ahead of the Twins this year.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on May 21, 2007 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rotation is what is going to
by southsider80 on May 21, 2007 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible
by hitlesswonder on May 21, 2007 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
with the twinkies
and neither baker or garza will be a liriano - or maybe even a radke. their production this year probably will be league average-ish and the pitch counts they'll be on will tax the bullpen, which is already showing that it isn't quite as good as it was in the past.
by larry on May 21, 2007 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what exactly is a good team to you?
The bullpen is clearly shaky lately. But it also has been clearly one of the best metric wise in the AL this season. What we toss that reason aside?
I been hearing the same bullshit about Garland going on 2 years. I heard the same bullshit about Mark until someone finally got it right 5 YEARS later. I kept hearing in 05 about the eventually pitching collaspe and you know what? It didnt.
Sometimes things dont make sense. Sometimes you win 66% of 1 run games.
Health is 1 thing I cant argue. If they dont play they cant produce. But again the Sox have been better at it then most. Maybe time has caught up with them and then again maybe the perception will be "wrong" again.
by Tdogg on May 21, 2007 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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