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Let the Grinder Era end today!

Listening to the local news stations last night, the prevailing theme seemed to be that the White Sox hit bottom Wednesday afternoon in Minnesota. I've seen a 99 win team lose 8 in a row, and thought the Sox over-underachieved their way to a .500 record thus far, so I wasn't buying it.

A night later, they've lost their second starting (whether they would have started on 29 other teams is immaterial. They were starting here) outfielder, and have now lost all 3 of their "speedy" lead-off guys. Darin Erstad will probably be back at some point this season, as will Scott Podsednik. To which all I have to say is WHY?

We all knew they were both going to end up on the DL this season. It was just a question of when and for how long. We all know they're going to be hurt next season. And next year they'll be another year older, another year slower, another surgery later, and we'll still be reading about "two fleet-footed, adept handlers of the bat sitting at the top of [a] potent offensive attack."

Tonight should be the end of the Grinder Era. No longer should the White Sox, a franchise which has sat near the top of the league payroll list in recent years, trot out players of inferior talent but superior effort in an attempt to achieve more team balance. It's time for Kenny Williams to admit that the core of his team is too one-dimensional, and cannot be offset by adding seemingly complimentary one-dimensional players. The Sox need talent, plain and simple, 3-tool, 4-tool, 5-tool players, gap hitters who play plus defense and can steal a bag here and there.

Unfortunately for us, there will be no quick fix. The Sox have just 2 of the first 100 draft picks in next Thursday's MLB draft. They can't afford the bad PR and drop in a attendance that would surely accompany a 10-year anniversary White-Flag sale. They need a change at the top, a change in philosophy, which may have already happened. Kenny has juggled the minor league and amateur scouts and has vowed to take a more hands on approach with this year's draft.

It appears that Jerry Owens, who was removed late in Charlotte's game, will take Erstad's spot on the roster tomorrow. Normally, that would be a move that would upset me since Owens is a low-ceilinged future 4th outfielder who should only be counted on to backup in center field. But with the Sox looking a youth movement square in the face, I see no harm in see what the kid can do. He is, after all, the oldest of the Sox outfield options. If he doesn't prove that he can handle a back-up role in his time here, he'll likely never amount to anything.

What I fear is that Owens was chosen because he is seen as a "lead-off hitter," as if that was a position required by major league rules to be filled rather than simply the first batter in the lineup. The good news is that he seems to have adjusted to International League pitching in his second season, and has begun to walk at an above average clip for the first time in his career. He may have a future in a reserve role on a good club. On these White Sox, however, he should get as many at-bats as possible during his time on the roster to properly evaluate his future role with the team.

When Erstad and Podsednik come back, and the Sox are double digit games back, they should be let go. Whether that means through trade for a C- prospect, or an unceremonious DFA, I don't care. They should be done with the current club. They're not a part of our future, so they shouldn't be a part of our present.

In addition...

  • Mackowiak should be relegated to 5th outfielder duties, or traded to a contending team looking for a (formerly) versatile bench piece.
  • Cintron appears to be done following his off-season surgery, or at least doesn't appear to be an upgrade over the mediocre Andy Gonzalez.
  • The trio of prospects in Charlotte should receive their season long call-ups.
    • Let Fields get some at-bats in LF, in addition to DHing and playing some 3rd base.
    • Let Sweeney and Anderson platoon in CF/LF with Owens.
    • And let them all play when Jermaine Dye is eventually traded away (I envision JD as one of only two unloading trades the Sox make during the season.)
I know the Sox brass will be unable to stomach the inevitable box office drop off that would surely follow wholesale changes such as this. The key to avoiding such a drop off may lie in offering Buehrle the contract that he desires, while trading only Dye and some role players at the deadline. Joe Crede and one of the other 4 starters (in addition to the return for Dye) could then be used in the off-season to help fill the '08 roster with more versatile players.

Whatever the route the Sox take, the next 6th months will determine the long-term health of the franchise.

* * * * *

This was supposed to be a recap, but the future is much more interesting to talk about than is the present.

  • Buehrle pitched great
  • Offense hasn't scored in 15 innings
  • Before injuring himself, Erstad singlehandedly killed biggest scoring opportunity, making two outs in only two pitches
  • Jim has a more proper recap.

0 recs  |  Comment 136 comments

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Signing Buehrle
To avoid the negative PR blitz...well, I think there  could be worse moves. If it frees Kenny's hands I'm all for it. Plus, he appears to not have been hurt last year which at least removes one concern going forward. And, he is as special as any player the Sox have developed recently -- I'd be lying if I didn't say that I think it would be cool for him to stick around. Moving Garland and Dye sound like a good plan as well. The Sox are essentially prohibited from having a real big firesale just because few players are performing well.

So random thoughts:

1) Can Mack play 2B? He could stick with the team next season then...just a thought.

2)I want the Sox to pitch MacDougal often. I want him on a roll and traded with some minor league swag for Matt Murton. You may laugh, but if Mac rediscovers his closerosity I think he could bring decent talent at the deadline. Clubs desperate for bullpen help do crazy things and the Cubs are really in "win now" mode. It's unlikely, but not impossible.

3) Does Ozzie need to get fired? I write this only because he already said he would call Kenny a Loser is he traded for the future. He's always said he is here to win now which apparently means he'll play an ailing/bad veteran over a prospect at all cost if he's losing games -- he feels they give him the best chance to win.

by hitlesswonder on May 31, 2007 11:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

hmm
  1. Who knows? Ozzie's turned him into a 4th outfielder since his arrival. I don't know if he'd even remember where to stand. I don't think he could be counted on to be an everyday guy, but there's nothing wrong with his skills as a backup.
  2. Murton is replacing Rios, who will cost far too much, on my lust list.
  3. I don't think Ozzie is the problem. I actually like what he brings to the table in terms of intangibles, specifically when he's making himself the story instead of his struggling ball club. KW would have to convince him that it would be a quick rebuild, and I don't have an adequate handle on what the timetable would be if they turned over the lineup to be much younger surrounding the two over-30 sluggers.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jun 1, 2007 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Could we get Murton for MacDougal?
or would we have to throw in another guy like Masset?

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?
Matt F'ing Murton?  He makes Pods look like a gold glover, runs the bases like an idiot, etc.  

Pass

by Johnny Upton on Jun 1, 2007 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murtons hits for AVG and gets on base...
and his power will develop eventually.  Even if it  never does, there's nothing wrong with a .300/.365/.450/.815/15 homer LF'er.  Murton doesn't have many tools like a throwing arm or speed (although, he isn't slow).  His defense is mediocre but that can be hidden in LF.

Podsednik couldn't sniff the numbers that Murton would post in a full season.

Look at what the guy did in the minors and in his first two years with the Cubs...

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/Matt-Murton.shtml

It's Jim Hendry's own fault for signing a washed-up Cliff Floyd instead of playing Murton everyday.  Piniella is just as bad as Dusty when it comes to playing veterans over young players.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Next time
read what I wrote.   Yes he can hit better than Pods, but if that's the standard...

Murton's defense is not mediocre its terrible.  Sorriano, Jones and Murton as your starting OF would be suicide.  

Pass

by Johnny Upton on Jun 1, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True...
but Murton in LF, Ichiro in CF, and Sweeney in RF would probably be above average defensively.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could probably live with that as an OF
but I'm not sure where you bat Murton.  (I assume you have Ichiro lead off) I don't think he's an ideal #2 hitter and if he drops to the 7 spot I'm not sure if I take the trade off on hitting Vs fielding.  

I'd cross my fingers that Anderson could hit .260 and run with Ichiro/Anderson/Sweeney as my OF.  

I just not very high on Murton, he would in short order replace Pods as the whipping boy of the team.

I wouldn't include Masset in any deal to aquire a low mid level MLB OF.

YMMV

by Johnny Upton on Jun 1, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was excited about Masset at first...
but that was when Kenny lied about his velocity.

The real Masset is a guy who throws 92 to 95 MPH (usually around 92 MPH) and he has awful control.  His stuff isn't as good as advertised.  I would consider dealing him.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Masset.
I was at the 3rd game of the season when MB got hurt. Masset performed above and beyond the call of duty against a team which had beat the shit out of us in the previous 2 games.

A great performance also in the Sunday Cub game. Maybe he should be a starter.

I like him.

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murton would bat 2nd after Ichiro...
and since Thome would bat 3rd, Murton would break up the lefties.

Forget about speed and bunting ability.

Murton's OBP in the minors was .380.  Murton's career MLB OBP is .367.  He put up a .386 OBP in 2005, a .365 OBP in 2006, and currently has a .350 OBP.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ichiro and Murton
would create a lot more RBI opportunities than Pods/Erstad and Gooch have this year.

Ichiro, Murton and Sweeney in the Outfield.  That would work.  

by southsideirish71 on Jun 1, 2007 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, I would love it...
Thome and Konerko (when he reverts back to normal next season) would knock in a lot of runs with Ichiro and Murton batting 1-2.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Mack
He wouldn't even have to be average to replace Tad's defense, since the right side is currently a suck hole.  We were something like 14 plays below average to that side of the infield, thanks to the Oldy McSlow players we prominently feature at the position.  Then again, left field is the last refuge of bad defense outside of DH, which Mack certainly is not.  I would bet that there's a reason why he hasn't seen any time in the infield.  Is he really less grindy than Pablo or Cintron?  His defense is probably just not average.

Batting-wise, his ISO is trending downward and currently lies in the neighborhood of .100.  He walks and strikes out at league average rates, so he won't be anything spectacular getting on base, plus the number of line drives and fly balls he's hitting is falling, which is probably evidence that he's losing his ability to turn on pitches and drive them into the gaps, something he wasn't spectacular at in the first place.  His GB% is near 60 and he's not fast, so my guess is he's going to be out of the league sometime soon.

by colintj on Jun 1, 2007 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately
We've seen a week in Charlotte where Fields has had to play short and Wiki Gonzalez has manned second for entire games.

Owens' promotion may open up an outfield spot, but that'll get Anderson out of the DH spot, with Sweeney and Wilson taking the other two.

I'm guessing it'll be at least three weeks until Fields can get out of the infield.  Kenny Perez will have to get healthy, maybe Chris Getz will be promoted, and then they can talk Fields in left.

by Sox Machine on May 31, 2007 11:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
I didn't even think in terms of organizational depth. That's the least of my concerns, but obviously shouldn't be overlooked. Gonzalez should be down right now then.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on May 31, 2007 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But think of the Cintron!
Who will spare Alex from having to play two consecutive days if Uribe's not available?

(And I forgot Molina at third for Charlotte.  Then again, I'd like to forget Molina entirely.)

by Sox Machine on Jun 1, 2007 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think...
Chris Getz is hurt, too.  He hasn't played since May 20.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The trib reports a giants scout was at the game
And so it begins.  We will see more and more scouts in the next few weeks and more speculation.  

by southsideirish71 on Jun 1, 2007 12:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Giants have...
nothing feasible that I want.  My guess is that it would have to be a three way trade.  

As far as who San Fran was looking at...  Crede, perhaps?  I'd say Dye but they already have four true outfielders (Bonds, Lewis, Roberts, Wynn) and a couple of others who can play there (Feliz, Klesko...).  But again, I'm not seeing anything there that looks good -- there's not a whole lot in the farm system now that Lincecum has graduated.

by CWSKeith on Jun 1, 2007 12:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't suppose they'd be willing
to trade away three top pitchers for AJ again.

by Dongfang Hong on Jun 1, 2007 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i posted this over at ST but i digress
i would gladly take the following off their hands for joe crede.

either of their up and coming 2B Frandsen or Sanders.

Frandsen is a slap hitting 2B with decent speed who doesn't strike out much but also doesn't walk much his OBP is reliant on putting the ball in play.

Sanders is a bit further away hes currently at the giants single A affiliate Augusta, and was hampered all last season with shoulder a injury, he could move very quickly and possibly taste AAA by seasons end seeing how  Frandsen is with the big club he should move quickly. He hasn't show much in the power department but he does have very good speed(3triples 13SB/1CS) and a great eye(20SO/19BB).

Aside from both of them i wouldn't mind Jonathan Sanchez another project lefty with great stuff. Recently sent down to AAA Fresno

Why not see what Cooper can do with Sanchez. So far he's been able to make Logan look respectable and Thornton look great, The book is still out on Sisco.

by beautox on Jun 1, 2007 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sanchez
It looks like he got rushed to the bigs in order to fill a hole in the Giants' pen, so he could certainly be a starter.  As a 23 year old, he dominated AA, w/ a K:BB ratio of 46/9 in 31 1/3 innings.  They moved him up to AAA where he did a 28/13 in 23 2/3, but his GB% slipped from 49 to 39  and then put him in the bullpen in the big leagues where he struggled with his control and his GB%.  I haven't seen him, so I don't know how projectable he is.  Kevin Goldstein put him in his top 100 prospects for this year at 73 and said in his Giants Top Ten Prospects article that he's 91-93 mph with his fastball with a good change and a curveball he tends to overthrow and hang.  Additionally, he'd be a No. 3 starter if everything works out.

BP article: here

by colintj on Jun 1, 2007 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We need to get us
some of that Giants scouting.  They've gotten Liriano, Lincecum, Bonser, and this kid in the last few years.  Beats our resume of...Gio (hopefully).

by chrome on Jun 1, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks
for further insight, i went back and watched one of his really good starts against the reds last season and he has great stuff. Hes just sitting down at AAA fresno, and he has shown great control in the minors he seems more likely to put it together under Cooper than say Sisco.

by beautox on Jun 1, 2007 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So ...
If Owens is called up, either Terrero becomes our everyday starting centerfielder or Mack or Owens play CF despite not being any good at it?  Huh.  Interesting plan.

by Ryno on Jun 1, 2007 1:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What a mess
You can't go youth movement if the youth sucks, the cupboard is bare in our minors.

The only thing we have ready to play up are borderline 5th outfielders.

Our only decent infielder can only play third base (or 5th OF), where the current player in front of him is under contract through 2008 and untradeable because of a bad back.  What we really could use is a decent SS or especially 2B - but zip, nada.

No catchers whatsoever.

Maybe one decent pitcher who'd be ready by next year, Gio.  And he's a runt, so who knows how long he'd hold up.

Get accustomed to a steady stream of Terrero's, Craig Wilsons's, Cintrons, etc etc etc.  Mercy!

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 8:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If we're nearing white flag territory
why isn't Brian Anderson being considered? Is he being saved for when they really really suck?
President - Johnny Dickshot Fan Club

by tailgater on Jun 1, 2007 8:51 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The only way you'll see BA
is if Ozzie is part of the trade(s).  I don't know why, but he must hate him.

Btw, I was thinking about this while watching the Tampa Bay outfield:

Are the Sox just too white?

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The WHITE Sox
Do you miss those big thighs of Frank Thomas?

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of Frank...
I was watching and thinking that MB knew the game was over at that point, down by 1.  The thought ran through my mind that he semi-grooved that pitch just so Frank could hit it.  I wouldn't put it past him to do a struggling friend a favor.
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Grooved it?
Before the series started they yelled to him, "HEY FRANK, GUESS WHAT - WE'RE GOING TO PITCH YOU DOWN AND IN"  Gee, what did Frank crush 500 feet?

This season is becoming absurb.  I suggest medicating heavily and just enjoy the trip, who knows where this is going.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows where this is going?
In 2004 we finished 4 games over .500.
In 2005 we won the World Series.
Who knows where this is going?

In 2004 we finished 4 games over .500.
In 2005 we won the World Series.
Who knows where this is going?

In 2004 we finished 4 games over .500.
In 2005 we won the World Series.
Who knows where this is going?

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So your argument is...
So your argument is...
So your argument is...
So your argument is...

...we have to finish the magical 4 games over .500 this year?  Surreal.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In 2004 we had a rotation
that looked to be on the cusp of finally coming together.  In 2005 it did.

While anything's possible, I'd like to see the Sox maximize their chances.

by Dongfang Hong on Jun 1, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow, a new low
now we've got people accusing players of throwing games.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say 'throwing games'
I said I was THINKING that maybe MB semi-grooved one to Frank, you know, for old-times sake.  It's not like the Sox were going to win anyway, or that it mattered to MB whether he gave up 1 run or 2.

But if I HAD suggested that (my wife also takes something I said to extremes), tell me the difference between the hitters refusing to go the other way, the relievers refusing to throw strikes, etc., and 'throwing' a game?  Aren't those 'refusals to adjust' the same as throwing in the towel?  

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you apparently don't know pro athletes
of course it matters to MB whether he gives up one or two or ten runs. he friggin' missed with a pitch. have you never seen a pitcher do that before? christ.

"refusing." i got it. all we have to do is get over our relievers reluctance to throwing strikes and our bullpen will be fine.

Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whether I know pro athletes or not,
I'm well aware that I couldn't possibly know them as well as you.  All I asked you, since you used the word "throwing", is the difference between throwing a game and throwing in the towel.

But feel free to selectively read and respond.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're saying he threw in the towel
at 1-0. that's so stupid i didn't even want to respond to it and highlight to you and everyone else how stupid it is. but, since you insist, here it is.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So far-fetched?
Buehrle grooved one to Frank (a) down one (b) in a contract year (c) while still searching for his 100th win (d) in the midst of a losing streak, and the Sox hitters took pity on the just-returning-from-injury Halladay by purposely running into outs after they inadvertently reached base.

What's so hard to believe? ;-)

It takes two to lie; one to lie and one to listen.

by Toonderstrook on Jun 1, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed.
It takes two to lie; one to lie and one to listen.

by Toonderstrook on Jun 1, 2007 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Btw, I like your new sig line.
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

over a week now since he last pitched
and, since may 12 (3 weeks!), he has appeared four times. unless he's hurting - and there's no other indication of that considering how he has pitched (no runs allowed since april 29) - it's inexcusable. fine, don't pitch him in blowouts. but ozzie needs to realize that he has roughly two guys he can trust in the pen. and not using one of them just in case one of his other "relievers" gets lucky and the offense scores is silly. leverage big bobby. free big bobby.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, sad that a two hit game is
considered a thrown game. also sad that the sox havent helped him in six straight games. its gotta suck going for that elusive 100 with this team.

by omnipotent grab on Jun 1, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nods head

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 1, 2007 8:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope Erstad comes back for at least
a couple weeks to drop that average below .260.

$150 here I come.

by chrome on Jun 1, 2007 8:57 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Always take the under with Erstad
Except on hustle plays. Dude RULEZ in that category.
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wish he would have
gotten hurt in a grindier way.

Snapping your ankle by swinging at air just doesn't seem to compliment his stubble.

by chrome on Jun 1, 2007 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even on crutches...
..."Erstad just looks like a ballplayer."
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ode to a real cicada
Some of these cicadas, they hatch n' you know all they wanna do is mate.  But this here cicada, he does all the little things.  I mean, noboby chirps like this guy.  Did you know he was the fastest cicada to molt back in North Dakota?  (Cicada tries to fly and twists wing CRUNCH) MERCY!

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Complement"
As Cheat could tell you from watching the Spelling Bee.

Btw, Channel 2 did a story about the Trib dropping sponsorship of same.  The graphic under the newsreader said "sponsership".  Go figure.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 9:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Meant for Chrome...
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anderson
was apparently DHing at Charlotte because he hurt his shoulder. I know he played CF last night but it was the first time in about 4 games. I guess they want him to show he's healed before promoting him. Or maybe they really do think Terrero can do the job.

by bhoov on Jun 1, 2007 9:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

haha
Anderson at DH.  This just keeps getting better.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. Where's Pablo when you need him?
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come to think of it...
It's actualy not so funny, there's precedent.  Didn't Ozzie DH Anderson this year, with Mack in LF?  Watch out for the brown acid.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mushrooms.
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jun 1, 2007 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

anderson was DH because of
accomodating craig wilson in the outfield. that problem is now solved with owens coming up.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see...
what wrong at this point with just letting Jerry Owens lead off and play left field every day and show what he can do.  It's not like the Sox have better options out there.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 10:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Owens will play for a week
and be overmatched, then they'll bring up Craig Wilson and send Owens back down.  We've seen this movie before.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, so?
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.
The worst-case scenario is that Owens sucks, and the team is no worse off than they were two weeks earlier.

In a best-case scenario, maybe he proves to be somewhat valuable, and the team can feel comfortable letting Podsednik and Erstad go at season's end.

There's absolutely no harm in giving Owens an opportunity.

Now, I'd love to see Anderson get another shot, rather than see a retread like Terrero, but I'll take what I can get.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to see him play
put him out there.  But Ozzie'll get sick of him in a week and will demand that they call up Wilson.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Owens seems like...
Ozzie's type of player.  Fast, tries hard, good bunter, zero power.

If anything, Craig Wilson is the kind of guy that Guillen doesn't want to see - draws walks, has power, strikes out a lot, bad defensively.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't you know?
ozzie has had a hard-on for owens for about two years. i'm sure he'll last more than a week. dis keed, he run real fast.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ah, screw it
terrero may be a couple years older but he and BA have about the same amount of ABs. maybe he will show himself to be a useful bench type player. flip a coin between 'em. doesn't really matter at this point.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually
His value may be higher as an unknown commodity.  If it turns out he can't cut it in the big leagues with extended playing time, he'd lose any guessed at value as seen by other teams.  If the Sox think the odds that he craps out are very high, they would do better to keep him in AAA and trade him.  That stands for Fields as well and to a lesser extent Sweeney.

by colintj on Jun 1, 2007 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since he can't hit anymore...
...is Wilson now a grinder?
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's over 30, white, and not fast
Doesn't that qualify?

Oh, yeah, his 2007 mlb average is below the Mendoza line.

Score!

Let..the..kids..play.  If one of them actually distinguishes himself with stellar play maybe he could fetch some actual 3-5 tool talent via a trade to a desperate club.  (Oh, wait, that's US I'm describing.)

by winningugly on Jun 1, 2007 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Erstud
Negative grinder points for being injured WHILE BATTING. Maybe if you get drilled in the skull, OK. But twisting your ankle? No way.

Grinders get injured running through walls, diving for balls, mowing down a catcher, etc.

Turning your ankle? Just embarrassing.

Did we ALL see Erstud's inevitable injury coming? As Hawk would say...YES. Good roster planning Kenny. Now we'll be treated to 4 months of "The Kids Can Play" Part 2.

President - Johnny Dickshot Fan Club

by tailgater on Jun 1, 2007 11:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd actually like...
to see the kids play, as opposed to mediocre veterans like Mackowiak and Cintron.  Those two are decent bench players, but they're not good enough to be in the lineup every day like they have been.  Bring on the kids, I say?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a mess
Our keeds can't even put together an OPS of .800 in AAA, no matter how hard you squeeze your eyes shut clench your fists and pray it's hard to imagine them coming up to the big leagues and raking.  

But I agree, I'd rather see the kids come up here and hit .220 than suffer thru Mackozuna or Cintron doing it.  But I can also see where Ozzie's coming from, you probably have a better chance to win with a shitty veteran out there than a shitty rookie.  It's not like there's a Frank Thomas in the pipeline.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point...
is no longer about winning or losing ballgames this year.  It's about figuring out who's a part of the future of this club.  Guys who have no part of the future of this team, like Mackowiak and Cintron, need to sit in favor of guys who might, like Owens.  

The team winning 78 ballgames instead of 75 is less important than seeing what these kids can do.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good luck selling Ozzie on your POV
I don't think he'll sign on to set the table for the next manager.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, obviously...
he and Ken Williams need to sit down and figure out what the goal of this team is.  Is it to win a couple more games in 2007, or is it to try and make the team a contender again in the not-too-distant future?

If it's the latter, I imagine that Williams will give Guillen a rather long leash in terms of 2007 wins and losses.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No extension no kids
Ozzie's contract is up at the end of next year.  Until he gets an extension, he's not going to lay his neck on the block just to give these mediocre kids playing time.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then he needs to be fired...
immediately, if he's unwilling to follow simple instructions and do what's right for the team.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you can fire him
he's got that Ditka cloak of invincibility about him.  But he's wound even tighter than Ditka, and if it's humanly possible he has an even bigger ego.  

If this season goes down the toilet it'll be fun to see how Ozzie'll handle it.  He's even goofier than usual right now.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and i'm sure the way to an extension
is playing a bunch of shitty players who have no future with this organization. if KW et al decide that it's time to go to a youth movement, he'll follow orders. they're not going to give him an extension unless it appears progress - however defined - is being made with the young guys. this is reinsdorf we're talking about.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno
it sure seems like he told KW what he can do with Anderson.  I can't see KW cramming these kids down his throat unless he gets guaranteed money in the bank first.  Ozzie's crazy, but he ain't stupid.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's going to be tough to not play them
when you don't have any other options on your roster. ozzie's going to find himself with a lot less of his favorite toys in the coming months.

you're acting like ozzie doesn't have job security or something. he's not in any danger of being fired. unless he grotesquely fucks something up in the next year, he'll be around for the rebuilding process. honestly, as much as we like to rip on ozzie, this season is mostly on KW's head. if he's not going anywhere, neither is ozzie.

Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's still got plenty of toys
and plenty of job security.  Like I said, I think he's as invincible as Ditka so he's gonna do whatever he wants.  I don't care how fast dese keed ese.

He's got Mack, Terrero and a soon to return Pods in the OF, and Cintron and Wilson in the IF.  Ozzie's going to win as many games as he can this year so he can leverage as much money as he can out of an extension.   If he wins this year with this adversity he's in even stronger position.  So Jerry Owens & Sweeney & Fields & Co. can grab some bench.  MERCY!

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still don't get it.
ignoring the GM + finishing out of the playoffs = contract extension?  If Guillen is unable or unwilling to help this team rebuild, then the team needs to find someone who can and will

Even Ditka eventually got fired, when his incompetence finally shone through the talent.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

when has he ignored the GM?
seems to me those two have a very good working relationship.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He hasn't...
but Pete seems to think he will, by burying young guys despite the fact that Williams would be interested in seeing them play.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then what do you make
of his "NO WHITE FLAGS!  If KW makes a trade he's a loser!" tantrum?  

Doesn't sound to me like a guy who's anxious to sign on to a youth movement with a bunch of shit minor leaguers.  Oh yeah, this guy's a team player, he's go along with whatever is best long term for the organization.  

If you haven't noticed, Ozzie is all about Ozzie.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he said he'd quit if KW starts
trading vets.  Which planet you been on?

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In that case...
he needs to go.  I don't have a huge problem with him as a manager, but I don't like him enough to continue watching this crap.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It ain't so bad,
could be worse... at least he hasn't been caught dating she-males.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we'll see Ozzie change his tune
as the Sox drop further back and Kenny fills the roster with younger players that Ozzie actually likes. (Danks, Jenks, Sweeney, Owens, Fields, and some imports)

Ozzie won't call it a White Flag. He'll say 'these keeds are good now. They're ready now, and they'll be even more ready next year with the playing time I'm giving them.'

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jun 1, 2007 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope
Him giving Erstad 100 AB's puking through April batting .150 while BA grew moss on the bench wasn't very encouraging.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 1, 2007 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he doesn't like BA
he likes the other guys.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to see the kids play.
I have severe doubts that they can; their AAA production isn't anything special.  But, for better or for worse, they're the future of this club.  I'd rather watch them win 72 games than watch Cintron, Mack, and Podstad win 76.

by Dongfang Hong on Jun 1, 2007 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's still Alfonso Soriano
136 million reasons to smile, and no work required to get it.
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And then Jim Hendry...
The Sox sucking almost as much as the Flubs takes a lot of heat off of him.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like Logan and MacDougal...
...as current Sox relievers who will one day receive big Cubbie contracts to serve as setup men in their 30s....
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The new Eyre and Howry?
Hehe.

I do think that Logan is good enough against lefties that he will have a long and successful career as a LOOGY a la Mike Myers.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG
10 more minutes and then the answer.

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mariotti?
There's nothing he likes better than bashing on bad Chicago sports teams.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A winner!
No doubt. Lots of negativity.

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He and his kind are, IMO,
the biggest thing preventing us from trading in our veterans for prospects.  He'd love nothing more than being able to berate KW for raising the white flag on "the team that only eighteen months ago won the World Series."

by Dongfang Hong on Jun 1, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Watch the negativity and nail buffing
coming from his columns in the next little while.

What a little fucking weasel!

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mariotti is a weasel...
But what reason is there to be positive now?

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ojectivity, balance.
Both concepts are unfamiliar to your man.

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Mariotti starts ragging on the White Sox...
like you know he will, then Kenny will have no one to blame but himself.  Field a winning ballclub and Mariotti keeps his mouth shut.  Kenny failed and now Mariotti gets to run his mouth.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you ever read his colums on the Sox?
Today is one of about 5 days in the last 3 years when we've been under .500.

IMO, you have too much venom towards the Sox brass. It's not as easy as it looks on the internet chat sites.

Relax or you'll have a heart attack before you're 30.

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A year ago...
...it would've been me. But I no longer reside within city limits.
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's why he's known as...
...Bone Loogan.
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 12:12 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, that didn't...
...line up where it was supposed to.
Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 1, 2007 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah,
they'll just trade for Teixeira, now that he's apparently available.

Actually, I guess they don't operate that way anymore, but I wonder who will be willing to give up prospects for the next season-and-a-half of Tex before Boras gets him nine figures in the 08-09 offseason.  

Actually, the Sox could use him by 09, with Thome likely gone and Konerko DHing.  Maybe we should start saving money now.

by Ryno on Jun 1, 2007 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's funny.
The Sox signing a highly-regarded Scott Boras client as a Free Agent?  That's a really funny though.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sox beats Cubs 5-4
KW always seethed that the Sox are treated as second-class citizens to the Cubs in Chicago.  Since becoming GM, he has strived to beat the Cubs, as evidenced by the fact that the Sox only play hard against the Cubs.  It took two months, KW finally was able to beat the Cubs in the hard to top category of "The Most Absurd Number of Left-fielders on a Team".  The Sox now have 5 LF'ers (Mac/Owens/Terrero/Dye/Gonzales) and the Cubs only 4 (Murton/Soriano/Jones/Floyd).  KW is feverishly working the next category, "The Most Absurd Number of Left-Handed Starting Pitchers", by offering the Cubs Vazquez for Cotts.  This is a good trade for both teams - Hendry gets to waste more Tribune money, KW gets a WS hero back.  After the trade, KW will then promote Gio and Cotts, allowing the Sox to beat the Cubs in the category, 4-3 Sox(Buehrle/Danks/Cotts/Gio), Cubs (Lilly/Hill/Marshall).  KW will also ask Sisco to start in AAA so that if the Cubs bring in a 4th LH starter, Sox can promote him to get a 5-4 lead.  KW's '08 goal is to beat the Cubs in the "Most LH Catchers", "Most LH 3rd Basemen" and "Most LH 2nd Basemen" categories.  He will get a head-start on those categories by ordering all his LH pitchers to play one of those positions in the Winter Leagues.

by squeegeeman on Jun 1, 2007 1:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

what?
gonzalez as a leftfielder. huh? get some new fact-checkers there buddy. sorry for fucking up the whole premise of your column.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gonzales
played a few games in the outfield in AAA before being called up.  With the surfeit of outfielders in Charlotte, his playing indicates to me that Ozzie wants to turn him into an outfielder because of his poor defense, just like he did with Mac.

by squeegeeman on Jun 1, 2007 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andy Gonzalez is only here because...
Cintron couldn't throw out my dead grandma right now.  Gonzalez is just holding Craig Wilson's spot warm.  Not that Wilson is going to save our bad team, but I see him being called up any day now.  Right now, we only have two right-handed outfielders and only one of them has any power.

by SSH2005 on Jun 1, 2007 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great.
If Cintron goes on the DL and Wilson gets called up.  The Sox will have an insurmountable 6-4 lead in LF'ers.

by squeegeeman on Jun 1, 2007 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and josh fields played SS last week
i guess that makes him one. christ, i thought we hit a new low above. now people are defending jay. andy gonzalez is neither now an outfielder nor is ozzie attempting to make him into one.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's sarcasm
on the imbalnce roster that KW built - too many LF'ers, no mnay free swingers, too many inexperience bullpen pitchers, too many slow base runners, etc...  

by squeegeeman on Jun 1, 2007 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

right, sarcasm.
i guess i just like my sarcasm with some facts behind it. it's pretty easy to just make shit up so you can write a column.
Free Bobby Jenks!

by larry on Jun 1, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re. Sox vs. Cubs
I buy and sell Sox tickets on EBAY and I seem to have overbought for the coming Yankee series (Hey, they are THE YANKEES, THE BRONX BOMBERS. AROD, Jeter, etc.). Tickets are currently going for under face. Wait til Houston and Florida come into town later this month.  

I live near north. At 5:00 on Wednesday, I was around Chicago Ave and State St. and there was a steady stream of people going to the subway heading up to watch the Cubs against the fucking Florida Marlins, Att: 39,699.

Kenny has much more work to do.

by ballyb on Jun 1, 2007 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...
the Sox should plant some ivy in the outfield.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 1, 2007 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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