Another shutout shifts focus to next year(s)
The White Sox have now been shut out the most times in the American League. They rank last in batting average, hits, runs, RBI, and extra base hits. They've had almost 100 fewer at-bats with RISP than any other team in the AL, and rank last in OPS with RISP. There is no mystery to the reason this is a bad team.
I didn't realize it until I found myself doing fist-pumps in my car and living room yesterday, but I haven't even cared if the Sox won or lost lately. The only difference yesterday was that I wanted Mark Buehrle to get his 100th win.
It's not that I'm no longer a White Sox fan, far from it. It's that I've already written them off for this season, and I know that due to the lack of young impact players within the organization the fastest way back to the top of the division will come through the strategic removal (through trades) of the impending free agents.
Sooner, then later
Kenny Williams has to move Jermaine Dye as soon as possible. Any more nationally televised games including him turning singles into doubles, doubles into triples, or showcasing his inability to get around anything thrown harder than 89MPH, and he runs the risk of more GMs realizing they're bidding on the Oakland version of JD, not the MVP candidate who resided on the south side the last two seasons.
Although as Phillies GM Pat Gillick proved in the Freddy Garcia deal, sometimes a GM will ignore all signs of a player being toast. (Garcia's MRI today revealed rotator cuff and labrum damage, which I'm fairly certain would have been discovered in December had the Phillies elected to conduct a physical.) Kenny shouldn't give Stoneman or Colletti or anyone else any more opportunities to have second thoughts about trading for a rapidly aging outfielder with a bad knee and a history of leg injuries. It would be pushing his luck to think he'd be able to pull a fast one on a GM twice in the span of just over 6 months.
Mark Buehrle, the other player who will draw significant interest as the deadline approaches, is a completely different entity, however. He should be kept around for as long as possible, if for nothing else than he's a fan favorite, and I would like to see him pitch (in person) in a White Sox uniform at least one more time. I suspect there are many others who feel the same way.
I can't imagine Buehrle repeating his post June collapse of last season. And with the exception of Atlanta and maybe the Yankees, I can't see a(n in contention) rotation in desperate need of starting pitching. But it's only a matter of time before more teams lose a starter to attrition and are looking for one of the most durable arms in baseball to plug the hole.
Complicating the impending rebuilding process is the Joe Crede situation. It was just announced that he will undergo back surgery tomorrow, presumably ending his season. As I'm sure all of you know, Crede is not a free agent this year. He has one more year of arbitration left, leaving the Sox with three options; trade him, non-tender him, or offer him arbitration and play him at 3rd next year with Fields in the OF or Charlotte.
I'm sure that entering the season the plan was for Crede to repeat his '06 then be shipped off to a team in need of 3B (Anaheim, perhaps) in the offseason, with Fields taking over the hot corner in '08. Crede's terrible start while battling his ailing back and impending surgery have probably removed the possibility of a large haul in any trade. It even removed the possibility of receiving two compensation picks since Crede will not be able to attain Type A status even with a great '08.
Crede will be the third likely-departing player (Frank after '05, and Maggs after '04) to have an injury derail the Sox opportunity to fully utilize the collective bargaining agreement's compensation for lost free agents. Recently, the scouting department has taken a (deserved) beating for their inability to produce major league talent, but the system would look a whole lot better if the Sox were able to gamble by offering Frank and Maggs arbitration. They would have had 4 extra picks in the '05 and '06 drafts between 15 and 50. To put that in perspective, the White Sox top three prospects Josh Fields (18th overall in '04), Gio Gonzalez (38th in '04), and Ryan Sweeney (52nd in '03) were all taken between 18th and 52nd. If the farm system had 4 more players of that caliber, the Sox future would look far brighter than the current situation.
I imagine most of the conversation around here for the remainder of the season will no longer be about win and losses, roster decisions, or managerial moves, shifting instead to rumors, prospects, and focusing on how this team can get better in the medium to long term.
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On Garcia
It's a requirement to submit all of the players latest medical tests/results to a team during a trade. That Freddy didn't have an MRI in his file showing half of his shoulder missing made him tradeable to the right (read: dumb) team. Kenny was able to claim that to the best of his knowledge Freddy was 100% healthy. I mean he just threw 200+ innings for a 90 win team. How couldn't he be healthy?
Channeling Dwight Schrute...
No
You really think...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 12, 2007 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Baseball Prospectus
wow
by Paxson Jackson @ South Side Sox on Jun 12, 2007 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't hate stats...
by hitlesswonder on Jun 12, 2007 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
You make a good point
by Paxson Jackson @ South Side Sox on Jun 12, 2007 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions
I must
Cheat...
"I imagine most of the conversation around here for the remainder of the season will no longer be about win and losses, roster decisions, or managerial moves, shifting instead to rumors, prospects, and focusing on how this team can get better in the medium to long term."
This team is sinking further, and further, into obscurity in a highly competitive AL Central.
Pods and Erstad can't save this team.
With Cintron, Mack, Terrero (and he's the best of 'em all) and now Fields in the lineup... this team isn't going anywhere this year.
Cintron is worse than useless... he is hurting the team. His VORP must be negative by now.
Mack has been serviceable but just can't play everyday or things really go downhill.
Terrero has shown some promise, and is the only callup I can say belongs here (Other than Sweeney, of course).
Fields is stinkin' up the joint. Never had much faith in him either.
Owens/Ozuna... puh-lease. Pffffffft.
...
And that's just the offense. That says nothing about our bullpen.
....
So what will interest me the most the rest of this year is not the W/L, but how well the kids play (Danks, Fields, Terrero) and how the transactions go. It saddes me deeply because Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, are used to being on winning teams, and I feel bad for them not getting any run support. It's got to be frustrating for them, and I like them all. They will always have a special place in my heart...
Owens/Ozuna.....?
For the first time in a long time i couldn't watch the White Sox game all the way through.... i was flipping between wrestling.... This team is so uninspired that a fake sport actually held my attention more than america's past time!
Here is a Fun ? for the crowd.... What will the sox Payroll be next year..?
my guess..... 75 mil
What really irks me...
What is going on with this teams farm system? It can't be completely selection. They just don't seem prepared for ML hitting and playing. We can't even get a guy up that can hit .250. (Of course it would be nice to have a few players up here hitting .250)
common...
show some patience, it isn't like we're going anywhere...
The scariest part
You start trading the vets and put our suckbomb minor leaguers out there every day, you're looking at a disaster of epic proportions. The franchise would crush most of the goodwill they created in 05, attendance plummets, TV ratings go in the toilet, tc.
What a total f*cking mess, I still don't know how we got in this position. It's a nightmare.
White Sox interested in J.C. Romero?
Francona said at the time he thought trade talks with at least one team were well advanced but that Epstein needed more time to complete the deal.
As of yesterday, it didn't appear that a deal was imminent, although several teams are believed to have interest. American League Central teams, including Detroit, Minnesota and Chicago, have a need for Romero, but Epstein probably would prefer to trade him to the National League. The Sox must trade or release him by next Monday.
As Cheat says:
It's worse than last year for me. Then, I'd watch every pitch of every game that BA started. To see his defense, watch his ab's, measure his progress or lack of progress. When Mack was in CF (what, like 50-60 games?) I'd only keep one eye on the game. Not that I'm not a fan, just that without the "hook" of watching the "prospect" there was no point in spending that many hours or that much emotion.
I guess we have Fields this year, but what would really keep my interest would be an outfield of Sweeney, BA, and Torrero. ChicagoPete says we'll see the goodwill and tv ratings evaporate with the "veterans" gone, but judging by the boobirds at Saturday's game I suspect there isn't much more to lose.
Your right - nothing to lose
Then again - maybe this is a plan to increase beer sales...hmmm
Let the kids play
It has been done - 1950's Sox, 60's Dodgers couldn't hit a lick and did quite well with pitching and defense. And our SP is still excellent.
I actually would root more for the Underdog Sox than the Ancient Retread Sox.
The World Baseball Classic
The guy has been a horse his whole career. It seems like most guys who get rotator cuff damage get it earlier in their careers.
Buster Onley
Cincy looks to be starting their fire sale.
Jr is looking like he is going to the Braves.
Dunn might be on his way to the Dodgers. See you later Billingsley.
KW needs to not fuck up the fire sale. The season is over, move on. And holding the team together for the cubs series is insulting. So lets keep the team together, so we can play a 3 game series against a non-divisional opponent over the future of the franchise is dumb.
by southsideirish71 on Jun 12, 2007 9:45 AM CDT reply actions
Is there a "good" team
I've got tix for the 23rd, and I am actually looking at it with dread. Only the cold MGD might save me.
I heard that too
by omnipotent grab on Jun 12, 2007 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Why are you going to lock him up
by southsideirish71 on Jun 12, 2007 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
There is a difference
I love Buerhle also, but with the 3rd worst team in the AL, with the worst hitting and worst bullpen. We have too many pieces to fix. We are not going to sign him so lets package him up and get a bunch of teams to bid and get something that can help us compete next year.
If we really really really want him, he will be a FA and we can compete with everyone else.
by southsideirish71 on Jun 12, 2007 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
Regardless of keeping him or sending him
you're assuming
Am I sick?
I believe this is what is referred to as "Stockholm Syndrome."
As for JD's value, hell, I'm sure there are plenty of GMs who will want him. KW got suckered into Erstud, right?
Thanks Freddy
3.60 ERA / 65.1 IP / 55 K / 1.36 WHIP
Gio Gonzalez (21 - AA)
2.87 ERA / 69 IP / 88 K / 1.12 WHIP
Gio needs to be promoted.
by omnipotent grab on Jun 12, 2007 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
I like him in AA
by southsideirish71 on Jun 12, 2007 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
A-Rod and Ichiro
Are they REALLY available for next year and what are the odds the Sox will make a play for either/both?
I would guess that
I love Mark Buehrle - he personifies the Sox. But they can't risk getting little or nothing for him. Have to get the best deal SOON. We need to deal another starter for 1 or more solid players or prospects.
Start next season with Gio and Floyd + 3. + a reasonable free agent signing or 2. + players we acquire.
Competitive? Not sure.
Watchable? Probably.
Pitching and defense.
Pitching and defense.
Pitching and defense.
The only way...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 12, 2007 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions
If I was king for a day
You ship him, Gooch and Dye on the next boat out of town for a combo of prospects and fixable players.
You put all your effort to signing Ichiro and making him our leadoff hitter.
You drop Crede, Pods, Erstad, Cintron and Mack next year.
I would bring up Floyd and give him first shot at the starting role this year. You might as well see if his talent and his tin head can be fixed before he is out of options.
If he fails then Gio.
You bring up Egbert and see if he can help our pen out.
by southsideirish71 on Jun 12, 2007 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions
Better have a plan for second base
I'd prefer
Where can you go to find upcoming Free Agent lists
I'd like to see who will be available at OF, 2B, SS, etc.
by Shoeless In SC on Jun 12, 2007 11:09 AM CDT reply actions
thanks larry
by Shoeless In SC on Jun 12, 2007 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
This is a lot different than '97
As a matter of fact, if they want to restructure this team, now is the perfect time to do it - as bad as they're playing right now, no one would complain if you did something radical. If they get on a hot streak then everyone starts bitching if you make a trade.
Starting pitching's our strength, and it's a lot easier to build an offense around that than vice versa. Let's bring up Floyd and see if he's ever going to be able to pitch in the majors. If he can pitch, then we can get something for MB. I'd be amenable to trading Thome too.
What's wrong with this picture?
See? Isn't this fun?
Rather than watching the mess on the field, we need to look forward.
reminds me of the late 1980s
What trading partners look likely?
The Dodgers look interesting because they have a lot of prospects and a GM who seems willing to trade them. If they want Jermaine Dye, maybe they'd be willing to give back Matt Kemp.
neither of those look likely
if we're talking sox pitchers, the discussion probably begins and ends with MB; we're unlikely to trade anyone else until we trade MB, if even then. the yankees are obviously a destination anytime mid-season deals come up. the cardinals also would love to have MB. the phillies need pitching but may not want to deal with the sox again. there are other teams who may be interested but we should probably wait until 7/15 to really start handicapping the options. unless someone drops a dump truck of talent off at the cell, no deal would be done until then.
Food for thought.
They have scored 142 more runs than the Sox.
That, my friends, is a lot of runs!
yah
70 runs
More food for thought.
If we play well, just think how much ground we can gain on the division leaders ; )

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