Konerko thinks Sox kan still kontend

by The Cheat on Jun 18, 2007 10:44 PM CDT in Recaps Comment 64 comments

I am writing this "recap" at 6:30 Central Time, 41 minutes before first pitch, over 3 hours before Contreras officially takes another loss. -- [editor's note, by The Cheat] The Sox offense was able to make Contreras' 5 runs stand up. Who knew? -- I'm writing before the game because Kenny Williams called a meeting to discuss the future of the team with Ozzie Guillen... and Paul Konerko!

You read that right. For the second time in the last 3 months, Kenny Williams called upon Paul Konerko for his advice on roster decisions. Back in Spring Training, Williams talked to Konerko and Jim Thome about the makeup of the club while we were questioning the roster construction. Konerko and Thome predictably said they liked the club, and thought it was a championship contender.

Today, Kenny asked Konerko if he felt the Sox could win this year. And by win he meant the division. The AL Central. The one with the Indians, Tigers, and Twins. The one that will take at least 95 wins to make the post-season. Konerko, as was to be expected, argued for the team to stay intact.

What was he supposed to say? Kenny asking a question like that, twice, is like your girlfriend asking if she looks fat in those jeans then asking the same question three months later when she's gained 45 pounds and ripping the seams as she busts out of those same jeans. Kenny, you don't need your boyfriend to tell you your team is still the best in the division. The rest of us think your team's fat.

I can't wait to read the morning papers for the juicy quotes that came out of the meeting and the Sox resurgent offense that rattled out 10 runs. World Series, here we come!

Update (wiz): Here's Kenny:

"One of the things that I talked to Paul Konerko about—and I brought him into our meeting because I wanted a player's perspective on this thing—was, 'Do you guys still believe you can win? If you believe you can win, I'm more inclined to stick with it, to ride this thing out, and if we have to go down with the ship, we'll go down together.' He expressed to me that this team can still win. But we've got to start to come together in a lot of facets in a very short period of time."

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Should have traded JD yesterday

second leg injury this season to go along with a .232 average. Looks a whole lot like the Oakland JD.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jun 18, 2007 10:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If you want

Premier prospect for JD you have to wait. You want premier prospects right?

Herm better work over-time on the guy.

FORGIVE ME GREG WALKER FOR I HAVE SINNED. IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE I CONSISTANTLY HIT THE BALL.

by chisox on Jun 18, 2007 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

baseball Prospectus

lists the Sox chances of making the playoffs at anywhere between .08% (less than 1 in a 1000) and 1.11%

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jun 18, 2007 10:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Last year

The Twins chances about this time were less than 1%. Before everyone jumps on me about why they could make a jump that the White Sox can't, let me say that I (mostly) agree. I'm just not going to take BP's percentages as gospel, thank you.

Optimist

by Peder on Jun 19, 2007 8:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

Baseball Prospectus also lists our chances of winning the 2005 World Series at 88%.

by Winning is Fung on Jun 19, 2007 8:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, those are pretty good odds!

;)

by winningugly on Jun 19, 2007 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What?

Nothing was wrong with the pieces that where put together. The fact is people are simply not hitting. Really the look like they don't have a clue at times. I have never seen a team 1-9 collapse the why this team did. Forget Erstad and Pods they are not the main problem. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER LOOKS LOST. I really can;t blame Kenny for this one.

What would you like him to do?

FORGIVE ME GREG WALKER FOR I HAVE SINNED. IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE I CONSISTANTLY HIT THE BALL.

by chisox on Jun 18, 2007 11:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hawk... is that you???

by SSH2005 on Jun 18, 2007 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They're just out-underachieving the next guy

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 19, 2007 5:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heard JD's Injury

is not serious, might play tomorrow.

Not that I disagree with those odds, but Baseball is a strange game. Wonder what BP's odds on the Sox making the Play0ffs in 2005 were? Bet we could have made a lot of money in Vegas on them.

by NSSF on Jun 18, 2007 11:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think they started at about 20%

and quickly went up from there. They were 97+% to make the playoffs by the All-Star break.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jun 18, 2007 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I do think.

stupid fingers.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jun 18, 2007 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Viva Las Vegas

My friend's parents went to Vegas prior to the beginning of the season, and his dad put down 20 bucks on the Sox winning the Central and 20 on the Sox winning the World Series and I think he made about a grand

-Jeeves Life in the Cell, a Sweet Home Sports site

by jeeves on Jun 19, 2007 6:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quotes are out

and they're every bit as vile as I expected.

Sox decide to... ride it out
Konerko persuades Williams, Guillen to keep team intact

"I tell them I'm preparing for that slap in the face [of failure], and at the same time I'm also preparing to add to our current mix--maybe inject some life in that fashion as well," he said. "I'm looking for possibilities, first, to make us better right now and, second, to look for deals that might result as a byproduct of us doing worse than where we are.

"I hope it doesn't come to us having to be a seller, because that means we've underachieved."

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jun 18, 2007 11:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If they add to this turd

And ruin it for a long time because of Konerko and KWs drunken delusion that .08% is achievable because of a bad journey song, and some silly overvalue of themselves. Then they can take my renewal invoice in the offseason and shove it where the sun doesnt shine.

This is called a bad business model. Its okay, to cut your losses and reinvest in the future. You can with the help of Dye and Buerhle get some talent and reload for next year. but thats only if you lose the romanticism of 05. Its over, unplug the DVD and move on.

by southsideirish71 on Jun 18, 2007 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's just incompetent management

I appreciate the gallows humor of the Sox counting on Pods and Erstad to lead them to the playoffs. I really haven't read anything that funny in a long time. Of course, it's really tragicomedy in that the general manager of the Sox seems to buy into it.

Seriously, the time to make a move to improve the team was a long freaking while ago. Instead, the Williams didn't even go out and get Jack Cust but instead tried to ride it out with the team he has. Now he's prepared to make the same mistake and not make a move to sell. For whatever reason, he's fallen too in love a bad team. Where is the GM that traded Rowand? I want that ruthless guy back. It's too late to save the season now and I can't believe that Williams can look at the record the Sox need to have to get to 95 wins and thinks it can happen.

I'm hoping against hope that it's all an elaborate smokescreen to jack up Buehrle and Dye's trade value. Sadly, I think it's more likely Pods will be back in 2008 than either of those guys gets moved to rebuild the team.

by hitlesswonder on Jun 19, 2007 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Might be a ploy

to drive up the price of the parts they want to sell.

by ballyb on Jun 19, 2007 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, it couldn't be!

It must be that our GM is a raving, delusional lunatic! It couldn't possibly be gamesmanship.

by Winning is Fung on Jun 19, 2007 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you could be right

... and maybe there is a new "line in the sand" date that if the Sox can't get within x games of the playoffs, the sale begins.

The reality is that right now, the main pieces we can trade might not be bringing much back. How do you increase the value of those pieces? Wait, hope they step up their performance a bit and hope the market tightens up a bit. As July 31 approaches, the market will get more competitive. Right now, there's no point trading guys and getting junk back. Talk about franchise suicide.

I think KW would pull the trigger on a trade right now if it was a good deal, but it's unrealistic to think he's gonna get the best deal this soon before the trading deadline.

In the next 30 days, if the Tigers and Indians and Twins play .500 ball and the Sox play .600 ball, the Sox would only be 6 or 7 games out of the division lead. If any of those teams tank, it gets even better.

We all know funny things can happen in baseball. Big leads in July don't mean much, and we're not in July yet anyway. Yes, it's a tall order, there are 3 decent teams ahead of us. But given everything else, what's going on here isn't unreasonable.

I don't get why Paulie is in on these meetings though-- unless KW knows the no-trade means Paulie is playing for the next 3 1/2 yrs with whatever is out there-- underachieving, rebuilding or spare parts. Maybe Paulie really would shoot straight with KW if the rest of the team lost its heart or hated Ozzie.

by ruffster on Jun 19, 2007 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

if it's a ploy

it's only to keep people in the seats if they haven't left already.

by Paxson Jackson on Jun 19, 2007 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What kind of drugs is Kenny doing

66-30 is what we would need for 95 wins.

36 games over 500. We have played below 500 for a year now. So once Prancer and Tinkerbell come back, spray some pixie dust, poof we are a machine that just dominates and wrecks the rest of baseball. I am starting to dislike Konerko. He gives bad advice. First the fiasco with his overvalue of the teams talent. Then his professed love for a bad hitting coach. Now this.

by southsideirish71 on Jun 19, 2007 12:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Can't blame Konerko.

What's he supposed to do? Management puts him in a precarious position asking his advice regarding his teammates. Konerko, knowing full well that it's very possible that what he says will get back to the other guys in the clubhouse, gives a PC answer backing the players. It's what any captain would do. He's not the GM and shouldn't have been placed in that position in the first place. I'm sure Paulie is an intelligent guy and understands that this team needs a shake up, but in my opinion it's not his place to make any personnel recommendations.

by Hazymania on Jun 19, 2007 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

konerko's a goddamn yes man

sure, he would say what you would expect him to say in that situation. but, he's shown no leadership abilities whatsoever.

contrary to what's said in the media, i think kw will make moves if he receives the right offers.

by onlysoxfaninboston on Jun 19, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What an awful, awful thing to do

both to ask Konerko his opinion, and actually take it into consideration.

Really.... what else is he going to say? Nothing. If this team isn't shaken up by the deadline I'm gonna be pissed. I will refuse to watch games. I will pick up a new hobby.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 19, 2007 5:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I hear building ships in bottles is fun

by Hazymania on Jun 19, 2007 6:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always wanted to learn how to do that...

I may pick up building models. Cars, Planes, Boats, etc.

Sounds like a great way to spend a summer :)

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 19, 2007 6:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uh, ask PK what's wrong with the team?!?

Paulie, God love him, is one of the biggest underachievers on a team loaded with them. If anything, I'd have a closed door meeting and ask what the hell is wrong with PK and what the hell are we going to do with him.

What else is Paulie going to say but that they'll get it together? If he throws anyone else under the bus, he's basically damning his own horrible performance. His approach at the plate has been selfish and damaging to the team.

This is ridiculous. I've said it before, but KW has painted himself into a corner. Now he's using PK to come up with an excuse to the press and the public as to why he can't do anything to fix this mess. Not only do we get subjected to half-assed effort on the field, now management starts pulling a con game on the fans.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 19, 2007 6:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The model for a GM nowadays

calls for you to talk to your "franchise" (who makes a lot more than you do) palyer before any major strategy shifts - utilizing the Japanese management style of "inclusion". Plus, JR runs his club smetimes more like a family. Not unexpected to solicit Konerko's opinion.

What it does do is send a message to the players (as if they needed it) that they are exploring all options and are now going to one of their own for opinions. Paulie surely is not going to be the turd in the punch bowl by saying, "Well, skip, we suck, pure and simple". His "leadership" style is to lead by example, not by being bellicose or pithy.

KW's no idiot. Let it play out, and if no moves are made it is because we can't get proper value, IMO. All I can say, though, is they'd better reload in the offseason and drop some coin or I, for one, will be pissed.

And NO one wants to see that happen!

by winningugly on Jun 19, 2007 7:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The coin may drop

... and not the way they want.
They best make some positive moves prior to the offseason to salvage season ticket sales. If not they will have less coin with which to spend.

by Brush Back on Jun 19, 2007 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

In management, you have to get the best out of your people, and if you're not, then you need to go to them and say "look, do you think you have what it takes to do this job?" Having that conversation alone sends a message. No employee in any organization is going to say "no, I don't think I'm getting it - fire (i.e., trade) me." But they will certainly then know that management is prepared to pull the trigger.

You have to give people a chance to prove themselves. I mean, Jeebus, people. PK, Thome and others have earned more than just the first three months of the season to show they can right the ship. JD, Thome, Crede, etc. were/are injured and three months removed from fantastic seasons. It's not like some news story broke that they're baby killers or something. I'm not willing to jettison them as players. We know they can play ball at the highest level.

Now, will they make the playoffs? Hell no - that in and of itself is a laugher. But KW is no idiot. Right now, it's not a much of a seller's market with a lot of teams still in the race. Even more, KW's assets suck. He has to give them a chance to improve, otherwise he'll be lucky to get a fungo bat and a sack of BP balls for anyone he tries to move.

Please, Please PLEASE people - don't call for a fire-sale. Right now we'll wind up eating salaries, getting nothing of value in return, and being saddled with a worse situation than where we are now for the next few years.

"Looks like the joke's on us, doesn't it?"

by Happy Felsch on Jun 19, 2007 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a fine line

We don't know what KW's being offered, but I would hope he's seriously considering pulling the trigger NOW on any reasonable offer instead of holding off and praying that the team somehow plays themselves into contention. Yesterday's conclave resulting in no white smoke from the chimney smells more of indecisiveness rather than shrewed posturing.

The absolute capper on a nightmare season would be KW holding off holding off holding off and then ending up with jack nadda for our FA's just like Washington did with Soriano last year.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 19, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seller's market all the way

Right now, it's not a much of a seller's market with a lot of teams still in the race.

With fewer teams looking to trade off assets at present, the supply-demand curve totally favors the sellers right now.

And...am I crazy to think that those teams that are aware of concepts like win shares would hanker more for three and a half months of a good player than the two months they'll get at the deadline?

Stretch!

by stevegoz on Jun 19, 2007 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, winningfugly.

I'm glad somebody here isn't flipping out over this posturing from KW and Ozzie. So they had a meeting with the captain of the team? You think they're going to announce afterwards that Paulie told them the year's over and it's time to blow up the team? People will buy anything these days.

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Jun 19, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BB, this season is Tostada

and I believe we clear-thinking fans know it. This is posturing to keep the fans from '05 from jumping off too soon. (I can't believe their announced attendance for last night was 36K+! For the marlins on a Monday night!)

by winningugly on Jun 19, 2007 8:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I was there.

I was shocked at the crowd. Even in the 7th, most people were still there.

Amazing what half price night does. Tonight will be a different story.

by ballyb on Jun 19, 2007 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Some people in this forum don't understand...

The man has to run a franchise properly not into the ground. He's giving the team till mid July to improve. If we end up like 4 games back of the division leader you DO NOT WAIVE THE WHITE FLAG like we did in 1996. You still trade Mark and JD but make shore you get major league ready players. If we stink you maybe think about making more trades for the future. Like say a Vazquez or a Contreras.

What is so hard to understand?

The person who said the sox should have gotten Jack Cust needs to do his research. Cust can only play DH. He is a pathetic(I am being kind) fielder and would have had no use to us. Why do you think he and tared the cover off the minor league for years but never made it to the big till now?

FORGIVE ME GREG WALKER FOR I HAVE SINNED. IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE I CONSISTANTLY HIT THE BALL.

by chisox on Jun 19, 2007 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sunk costs

The first thing they teach you in business class is don't fall into the trap of letting past sunk costs guide your future decisions - and this is exactly what KW is doing right now.

By any rational measure, this team is not very good right now and there's very little hope of seeing it turn around this season. Objectively, what have we got?:

LF is a huge negative, even if Pods comes back (even bigger if that he stay's healthy)
CF same problem
RF, JD isn't 100% this year, health issues
3B, Crede done for the year
SS, Uribe is Uribe
2B, Iguchi will be OK
1B, PK is healthy at least, probably will return to norm
C is ok
DH, Thome has questionable health
Starting pitching ok
Bullpen, no matter how you look at it it's a disaster with little chance of improvement.

We're in the midst of the easiest stretch of schedule of the season, and we're playing our worst ball of the season. To expect this team to miraculously do a 180 when we start playing the best teams in the league is irrational.

Waiting some more, and praying that this bunch turns it around, is bullshit.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 19, 2007 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"What is so hard to understand?"

Your logic and sentence structure.

by colintj on Jun 19, 2007 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What the heck is going on with Andersen

in Charlotte? Batting .167 in last 10 games, .238 for the year.

Is he finally a broken man?

by ballyb on Jun 19, 2007 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Injury was the last I heard

by colintj on Jun 19, 2007 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was doing great

till his shoulder crapped out. I think he has been DHing for the past 3 weeks or so.

by omnipotent grab on Jun 19, 2007 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not ready to jump ship

Yes, things are grim now, but man, it is a long season and it IS baseball. Players don't perform to predictions or projections. If they did every first round draft choice would be an MVP. Teams that seem great on paper in April end up in the 2nd division by Sept. And that's why all this emphasis on the minor league guys seems mastabatory. Sometimes it takes a player 5 or 6 years in the bushes to blossom. Play hard, stay healthy, pitch, hit, run, catch...simple game. If we're the same team in August that we are today then yes, let's dig the grave. But still seems kinda early to me.

by RoyEgan on Jun 19, 2007 8:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not being argumentative,

but have you watched the games the last 3 weeks?

And Detroit and Cleveland are not (87.5% confidence) going to FADE BIG TIME.

And this team has VERY LITTLE in the pipeline.

Seems like the ideal time to start retooling.

by ballyb on Jun 19, 2007 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

August

Just to add - August is a bit late. The decision has to be made by mid-July or earlier (one way or the other)

by Brush Back on Jun 19, 2007 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

It's not like Buehrle or Dye would clear waivers.

Looking at the above breakdown, one thing that strikes me is how much money the Sox have tied up in 1B/DH, and how much that really hampers the team.

Starting pitching is expensive, too, but that's just something to be dealt with. The Jack Cust example should remind us all that cheap hitters who can't really field aren't really that hard to find.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 19, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

I like Thome, but I hate how much is cash tied up in him as a DH hitter.

by Brush Back on Jun 19, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

$8 Mil?

After the cash thrown in by the Phils.

Explain to me how that is too much for Jim Thome.

by Big Daddy Kool on Jun 19, 2007 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not so much the money...

as it is the fact that the Sox are stuck with him (and with Konerko, who the Sox are paying a lot to). Those two players are 20% of the Sox payroll, all by themselves, and they're not movable. That's a lot of sunk cost right there.

Thome's a fine hitter, and it was fine to add him to a contending team, but he's no help now. He won't be part of the next good Sox team, and the Sox can't move him to a contender for long-term help.

Looking back, it was probably a mistake to give Konerko a five-year contract extension, a way bigger mistake than trading for Thome. He might be part of the next good Sox team, but by that point, he'll probably be an overpriced, underproducing DH.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 19, 2007 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thome's dirt cheap...

Our spend for Thome this year is < 5 million. For 2008 it's 6.84 when including the money that Philly sent with him. That's a reeeediculously good deal.

Sox Payroll

by southsideirish on Jun 19, 2007 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said...

it doesn't do the team any good, because they can't deal Thome. Even if Thome agreed to waive his no-trade (something that he probably wouldn't agree to do), that money from Philly won't go along with him, so unless the Sox kick down some of their own money, the Sox are stuck with him.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jun 19, 2007 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm curious.

Why wouldn't the $ go along with Thome?

by ballyb on Jun 19, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ballyb, you have changed!

Sounds like you have joined the pragmatic side. Welcome!

by winningugly on Jun 19, 2007 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The last 2 weeks

has been the most pathetic baseball I've ever seen. Like someone mentioned previously, not like the Cubs where there are ridiculous plays regularly (Lou said several weeks ago, "I've been in baseball a long time and I've never seen things like this before."). But just NO PERFORMANCE - hitting and relief pitching incredibly bad for major leaguers.

Time to move on.

by ballyb on Jun 19, 2007 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ballyb, if I were a contrarian

I'd pick the Sox to go on a hot streak now. When the last positive guy has gone to the dark side, it's time to bet the other way.

by winningugly on Jun 19, 2007 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can I interest you in some FL real estate?

I mean, it can't keep dropping can it?

by ChicagoPete on Jun 19, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, one of my clients is closing

on a house 7/2 in Windermere for $2.1MM. Depends on what market you are looking at...

However, the more reasonable folks (those in banking/real estate development, for example) are telling me "not until 2009".

So, yeah, it can keep dropping for awhile. But the Sox train has cooled so fast that it's due for a rebound. Really.

And "Strawberry" Fields is a future STAR.

by winningugly on Jun 19, 2007 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

jack cust?

he's hitting .276, with 49 whiffs in 116 ab's. 9 hrs, but most of those came in one week. 30 walks, which is more impressive than anything else.

I think we pretty much had Jack Cust before, only his name was Joe Borchard.

Cust will be hitting less than .250 by the end of the season.

by ruffster on Jun 19, 2007 9:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he's hitting for power and getting on base

what else do you want from a 28 year old Never Was?

by colintj on Jun 19, 2007 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jack Cust flow up

How would Jack Cust help us right now? Would you bench Jim Thome? I don't see him fitting on this team.

FORGIVE ME GREG WALKER FOR I HAVE SINNED. IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE I CONSISTANTLY HIT THE BALL.

by chisox on Jun 19, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Basic Business...

supply and demand. Kenny is trying to create as much demand as he can. He needs someone to piss their pants and give it up.

When some team becomes desperate enough they'll give up what he wants and then he'll make the deal.

I saw the quote about him being fine to get draft picks. I'm still trying to contain the laughter.

by White Sox Randy on Jun 19, 2007 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

buehrle for 5?

Tom Glavine and Storm Davis compare closest to Buehrle according to Baseball Reference.

Glavine through age 27 (87-93)
208 starts, 95-66, 3.53 ERA

Davis through age 27 (82-90):
200 starts, 92-62, 3.86 era

Buehrle first 7 seasons (00-06):
204 starts, 97-66, 4.31 ERA

Next 5 seasons:
Glavine:
156 starts, 78-39, 3.04 ERA

Davis:
39 starts, 19-30, 4.94 era.

Glavine actually got better and is on his way to the HOF. Davis only lasted 4 seasons and was out of baseball by the time he was 33.

So is Buehrle more like Glavine or Davis? I'd like to think Glavine, but...

by ruffster on Jun 19, 2007 11:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

by ruffster on Jun 19, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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