White Sox: A Flash in the Pan

by waitonhim on Jun 23, 2007 11:47 AM CDT

As a lifelong Sox fan it pains me to write this but it has become crystal clear that the 2005 championship season was nothing more than a flash in the pan. This was not, is not, and gives no indication in the near future of being a championship organization. What defines a championship organization? I'm sure there are many answers to that one but I believe consistency is near the top of the list. Teams that come to mind are the Yankees of the late 1990s, the Jays of the early 90s, the Yanks again, the Reds, and the A's in the 70s.

It was great to see them win in '05 but it was surreal. Following a near collapse in late August/early September they "flashed" as everyone else just folded in their path. Look at the season Cotts and Politte had as they "flashed" before us. The starting rotation flashed through opposing lineups with ease. The defense was on top of the ball in a "flash." Ozzie would shoot his mouth off in a "flash." If '05 wasn't a flash in the pan can anyone explain it differently?

Neither the management nor the players have been consistent. Compare the Sox with the Tigers organization and you begin to see the differences. The Tigers are building something that appears to be headed in the direction of a championship, possibly more than one. They have shown consistency over the past two seasons and they have a good mix of young and experienced players that are producing. They added the right veterans and more importantly they are led by a man who obviously believes in the merit of using his brain more than his mouth. You can sense there is a foundation for good things to come. Even if they don't win it all this season, Tiger fans have much to look forward to and be confident that it won't just "flash" away. I envy them.

Looking at this club and thinking about who has been consistent is a tough one. Offensively maybe AJ has been the most consistent when looking at '05, '06, & '07? Iguchi next in line? There just hasn't been consistency offensively. Starting pitching maybe Garland? The bullpen, anybody?

Where do you start? You can run through the list of current players and keep this guy, get rid of the next one but that isn't the answer. It needs to start at the top before you ever check the player list. The Sox organization needs major changes to ever hope to build a consistent championship worthy organization. That must start with the GM and field manager. If those changes are not made it will only lend hope to the diehards in KC that there is a way out of the cellar! I have my doubts and fears it may be another 88 years to wait for that "flash" in the pan.

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Comments

The Sox haven't had a losing season since...

1999, and have finished below .500 4 times in the last 17 seasons. Over that time their record has been .534. They've managed to put together some good teams without spending a lot of money.

With a little luck, they'll be back in no time.

by Stealfirstbase on Jun 23, 2007 1:21 PM CDT reply actions

This is why I don't envy Tiger fans.

2005     71     91     .438
2004     72     90     .444
2003     43     119     .265
2002     55     106     .342
2001     66     96     .407
2000     79     83     .488
1999     69     92     .429
1998     65     97     .401
1997     79     83     .488
1996     53     109     .327

by DeeDubs24 on Jun 23, 2007 1:45 PM CDT reply actions

You missed the point

If you can't see that the next five years look more promising for the Tigers then you need some Coke bottles to look through. The next five years are looking very bleak for the Sox. They have brought up how many guys from their system in the last 2.5 months and what do we have to show for it???

by waitonhim on Jun 23, 2007 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions

The White Sox have consistently

been one of the best teams in the AL and are almost always in contention for a division title.

by colintj on Jun 23, 2007 2:18 PM CDT reply actions

Which is why this is so hard

The fact that the Sox are usually near the top of the division and the fact that they're almost always above .500 is the reason why this season hurts so much

-Jeeves Life in the Cell, a Sweet Home Sports site

by jeeves on Jun 23, 2007 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Makes no sense

For all the above the reasons this is a totally ridiculous post.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jun 23, 2007 4:42 PM CDT reply actions

And you had the audacity

To point to the Tigers as a model of consistency? Dude get real. We suck for 1 year. Deal with it.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jun 23, 2007 4:44 PM CDT reply actions

To be fair

It's not like Dombrowski was the GM for all those losing years in DET. I can understand envying DET inasmuch as they have Ilitch willing pay big buucks and they have a great, great GM.

That said, this diary is ludicrous IMO. The Sox have been a winning team for most of the last 20 years. That performance is far better than most MLB teams.

by hitlesswonder on Jun 23, 2007 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions

How do you define winning?

Making the playoffs 3 times in the last 20 years isn't exactly dominating the league. The Sox have had a number of good seasons but they did not build a truly winning organization. Even the cheap skate Twins have done better.

by waitonhim on Jun 23, 2007 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Haven't posted in a while...

but thanks for defending the Sox TDogg. Couldn't say it better to all these bedwetting Sox fans. We suck, and it's no fun. But deal with it.

by southsider80 on Jun 24, 2007 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions

Did you "Envy" the Tigers.....

...When they were putting up those 100 loss seasons?

I'm going to take a guess and say in 2005, there were posts on the Tigers message boards envying a 99 win ball club, after watching their Tigers go 71-91.

Gimme a break.

by Tony82087 on Jun 23, 2007 6:53 PM CDT reply actions

Read the Diary

I stated that the Tiger organisation is building a winning team. Dombrosky and Leyland are two very talented baseball people that are head over heels more competent than Williams and Guillen. That is not an opinion just look at the standings and the future prospects.

by waitonhim on Jun 23, 2007 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions

I have to agree with that

by hitlesswonder on Jun 23, 2007 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Is that supposed to be an insult?

Not denying Leyland and Dom are good but your basing this off a year and half??????

The Sox look like world beaters thru 2005 half of 06 also. And yes in MLB terms the Sox HAVE been a successful organization the last 20 years and I have faith off their history they will be again.

Of all the grief Kenny has taken lately his recent trades still havent come back to bite him. Even Young who I love, hasn't done "it" yet. And he hasn't stayed healthy.

Sorry the Tigers have a ways to go before I start a love fest. And the last division title Leyland won was in 92'. His highness didn't win it last year.

Our farm system has sucked for years. Somehow we have survived. I think somehow we will again and I don't need rose colored glasses to understand that. The thing that cracks me up is so many people are convinced they have a good idea what the roster will be next year. I'm sorry I ain't buying it.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jun 23, 2007 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions

so, I'm curious

What were the White Sox doing with their 1990 season?

And it's a pretty damn good comparison; that Sox team was loaded, great prospects kept filing in from the minor league system, and they sustained that success on the great foundation they set for 17 years; throughout those 17 years, all they managed to win were 4 division championships, 3 playoff appearances, 2 years with a playoff win and 1 World Series championship (sung to the tune of Partridge in a Pear Tree).

by wite on Jun 23, 2007 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions

Sox actually made a bigger turnaround

from 1989 to 1990; an entire half a game.

1989 - 69-92
1990 - 94-68

2005 - 71-91
2006 - 95-67

and Twelve Days of Christmas; I forget cuz it's almost July

by wite on Jun 23, 2007 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions

What has happened to the White Sox...

could easily happen to the Tigers. As of last year, especially after picking up Thome, we all had the belief that this could last for a long time. The truth is that dynasties are dynasties because they happen so rarely. Maybe right now the Tigers do look like a team to envy, but just as quickly it could all disappear with an injury, a loss of confidence, or a bad trade.

I think you are being incredibly short-sighted during a period of play that is one of the worst in Sox recent history. You speak of consistancy, but it's not like the Tigers are definately going to make the playoffs. I'm not a big stat guy, but I would be willing to bet that the last year and a half would be too small of a sample size to say that the Tigers are going to be the next team of the century.

by DeeDubs24 on Jun 23, 2007 11:21 PM CDT reply actions

Thome Cost Us Too Much

Thome cost us precious defensive talent in CF and in reality he didn't come through in the clutch all that much. He frequently didn't deliver that much HR when we needed one. That trade hurt the Sox. Come on we won it all with Carl Everett!!!!

by waitonhim on Jun 24, 2007 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Defense? Really?

Last year's team featured great defense and Thome was an incredible addition offensively. BA was a fabulous CF and his suckage at the plate was more than overcome by Thome's stick. Do the math. Also, clutch? Really? When you can define and prove it exists, come back to me.

by colintj on Jun 24, 2007 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions

What type of fan are you

Some people have no loyalty whatsoever and frankly it make me sick. I've heard of bandwagon jumping but you're taking it to a whole new level. This team won the world series 2 years ago. One year ago they finished with 90 wins in the most competitive division in baseball. They have a history of being one of the winningest teams in baseball's history.

The whitesox farm system was as good if not better (based on analysis) at this time in 2000, when they where named organization of the year. Guess what happened after that? Players got injured and players didn't live up to expectations etc. SHIT HAPPENS MAN. Detroit will eventually have bumps in the road in 2008 and 2009. They have way too much talented players coming up for arbitration. If the young players who are suppose to replace the stars don't pan out they'll be in the same position as us.

I personally don't think the sox are in terrible shape for the future. Why? They have pitching talent, the most important ingredient. How they maneuver them-self to acquire the appropriate position players will determine how quickly they will start wining again.

FORGIVE ME GREG WALKER FOR I HAVE SINNED. IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE I CONSISTANTLY HIT THE BALL.

by chisox on Jun 24, 2007 9:40 AM CDT reply actions

Good work Chisox

As I said in an earlier post, I haven't written in a while, but this ship jumping is really starting to draw my anger. Being a fan means riding the good times and the bad. You can criticize, yeah. But don't dare sell the White Sox down the river and call yourself a fan. Dubbing 2005 a flash in the pan? Do you have any idea how hard it is to win 99 games and go 11-1 in the postseason? I have no idea what would motivate any Sox fan to devalue the past because of the condition of the present. Why sell out what was the most amazing year in baseball for Sox fans because of what's happening now? Sox fans who think this way need to stop 'living on the ledge,' stop wetting the bed, and deal with it. Have some backbone and loyalty.

by southsider80 on Jun 24, 2007 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree.. I refuse to retire my BA jersey

WHAT'S a Chuck Liddell?

by marco054 on Jun 24, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions

Don't Give Me that BS

Quit avoiding the point of the post and get off that whinny horse. Stick to the facts and leave the emotions out of it. I am as loyal a fan as anyone one of you. Answer my points and quit whinning.

by waitonhim on Jun 24, 2007 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Facts? I guess I'll just keep waiting on those.

They certainly haven't been delivered as yet.

by colintj on Jun 24, 2007 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions

No way. I'd rather be a Sox fan now

than a Tigers fan now. Damn bandwagon Tigers fans... need to stfu. Where were they 2-3 years ago?

Sox have been consistently good the past 17 years. So they have one championship to show for it. Big effing deal.

The Braves have one World Series win to show for 17 years of good ball. If the Sox had played in that weak ass division they'd have railed off some pennants in a row too.

Utter ridiculous post.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 24, 2007 11:23 AM CDT reply actions

Come on now...

Don't bash Tiger fans for being 'bandwagon' when our own fan-base does the very same. If the Sox are good, the fans show -- when they suck, it'll be 15-20K a night.

by CWSKeith on Jun 24, 2007 1:31 PM CDT reply actions

15-20 K ? That's not bad

It's nowhere near as bad as 2002-4 Tigers bad

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jun 24, 2007 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

The Sox haven't been that bad in a long, long time, so the situations aren't exactly comparable. I guarantee that if the Sox were coming off of as dismal seasons as the Tigers, the Sox would struggle to draw 20K a night.

by CWSKeith on Jun 24, 2007 4:30 PM CDT reply actions

Totally Missing the Point

I am not abandoning the Sox and I am not a fair weather fan but I am not going to fool myself and pat this organization on the back either. My whole point was that 2005 is looking more and more like a fluke not the result of a truly well built team! We won that title with Carl Everett, come on give me a break.

I am also not a closet Tiger fan but I turly envy Dombrosky and Leyland. Both of these guys are ex-Sox guys. Why are we stuck with KW & Guillen????

Compare Sheffield's impact on the Tigers to Thome's impact on the Sox. Sheff is greatly assiting Ordonez to the league MVP trophy. Thome has turned out to be the wrong guy for the Sox. Jim is a great guy and fine player but he cost us precious defensive abilities in CF. I'm not jumping back on the Rowand bandwagon but you cannot deny we suffered in CF. I would guess we lost at least 5-8 games last year because we had a Mac with Swiss cheese out there.

Back to the point, '05 was a fluke. If it wasn't can someone show me the light? Everything lined up at the right place and time and we won it all. It was not the result of a solidly built championship organization. The results of the past 1.5 seasons is proof of that, not my opinion.

Back-to-back or at least coming back the following season have to happen to qualify for a true championship club. Heck, they are not even going to make the playoffs!

I'm not giving up on the Sox but I'm not holding my breath either. They need serious changes to compete on the championship level and two of those changes needed are a new GM and field manager.

by waitonhim on Jun 24, 2007 5:58 PM CDT reply actions

Drink!

by The Actual El Guapo on Jun 24, 2007 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Where did you study proofs?

"The results of the past 1.5 seasons is proof of that, not my opinion."

Classic. So lets see. The past 1.5 seasons (you convienently leave out the Sox won 90 last year) is proof that:

A. Leyland and Don are better than KW and Ozzie. And we are stuck with "these" guys. I assume you mean to suggest that so many duos have done better. Which team actually WON the division and WS last? Somehow in your bashing of Ozzie (which I get of course) you leave out that his career managerial record exceeds his highness.

B. The past 1.5 seasons is "proof" of what will happen in the future.

C. So Rowand in center was "worth" 5-8 games in center? R u high?

D. 05 was fluke becauseeeee.. what SO many teams have repeated in this era?

You obviously r a Sox fan. I will not take that away from you. But your "missed" point IS missed. And stop saying its not your opinion, because it is. Nothing more.

"Find out what you are doing wrong and STOP doing that."

by Tdogg on Jun 24, 2007 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Be honest about this question

How would you rate Walt Jocketty as a GM?

Keep in mind his team crawled into the playoff and won the world series. (some called in a flash in the pan)
His minor league system is worst than ours.
His team is decrepit and is just as bad as we are.

FORGIVE ME GREG WALKER FOR I HAVE SINNED. IT'S BEEN A YEAR SINCE I CONSISTENTLY HIT THE BALL.

by chisox on Jun 24, 2007 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions

A Lot of Career Years...

The 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox featured a lot of guys who definitely had career years.

2005 Offense:
Remember that no one on this team batted .300 or above. All-Star Podsednik led the team with a .290 avg. This team posted a lot of 4-3, 3-2, and 2-1 victories. The team had 200 HR's.

Notably:
Joe Crede (finally broke out and lived to expectations)
Chris Widger (non-roster invitee who had a career year)

2005 Pitchers:
Neal Cotts (unhittable in '05 and awful prior to and after 2005)
Dustin Hermanson (he's not even on an MLB team today)
Jose Contreras (was cast off by NYY a year prior)
Jon Garland (like Crede, he finally lived up to expectations and led the team with 18 wins as the 5th starter)
Cliff Politte (like Hermanson, he's not even playing this year)

Was this team a fluke? Heck no, they were World Series Champions, dammit.

by nancyrocks on Jun 24, 2007 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions

at this time in 2005

Hermanson had an ERA of 0.00!

awmanthatwasawesome.

next years slogan better be "these kids can play."

by Gus on Jun 25, 2007 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions

Hey, it ain't easy

We won it all in 05. KW added Thome and Vasquez to defending champion and for three months this team looked invincible. Then it started unravelling last August, but that was hardly enough evidence to blow this team up last offseason.

Give the guy a fucking break, he won the WS in 05 and gave us a great chance to repeat last year. No one could have anticipated a total collapse this year. Give him a chance to fix it, he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

by ChicagoPete on Jun 24, 2007 8:43 PM CDT reply actions

Freal

the following events were fairly unprecedented:

Garland's 06 first half
Buehrle's 06 2nd
BA's abysmal '06 bat
The Entire '07 Offense and Bullpen Collapse

the first three were the difference between 90 and 96 wins, i'd bet and the last element is what puts us in this sorry position.

by colintj on Jun 24, 2007 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions

waitonhim

the ultimate SSS troll. well done, once again.

by larry on Jun 24, 2007 9:54 PM CDT reply actions

larry!

man, you missed the sox offensive explosion!

by The Wizard on Jun 24, 2007 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions

Call it a flash

..or whatever you want. It was a TITLE! And a very impressive one. I guess only computers can predict the bs that has happened this year. But as a fan that witnessed and lived through the 56-106 1970 Sox and many other ragtag teams and even though this year has been painful, I'm in no matter what. THE SOX WILL RISE AGAIN!

by Richie15 on Jun 25, 2007 4:45 PM CDT reply actions