Fautino De Los Santos is the White Sox second best prospect

by The Cheat on Jul 9, 2007 1:01 AM CDT in Minors Comment 89 comments

Fautino De Los Santos impressed me in his one inning of work at the 2007 Futures game even though he walked a batter, hit another, and gave up a deep home run to Justin Upton. DLS worked between 93-96 MPH with his fastball, usually 94-95, and featured a wicked tight slider at about 80-81. He faced 4 of the top (let's say) 45 prospects in baseball in Evan Longoria (AA), Brent Lillibridge (AAA), Justin Upton (AA), and Jacoby Ellsbury (AAA/Majors), all of whom have reached at least AA, and proved he belonged.

Early in his outing he pounded the lower part of the strike zone with mid-90's fastballs that had some good natural movement to them thanks to a lower-than-over-the-top arm angle. But his best pitch was the slider, which appeared even better than Dewon Day's "80" rated slide piece (Though to be fair to Day, because of his back issue I'm not sure that we've ever seen his best stuff.) DLS froze Ellsbury for the strikeout on his third pitch with a backdoor slider right at the bottom of the zone. As my jaw sat agape, Justin Upton boomed a no-doubter 15 rows deep into the left field seats, putting my jaw back to its proper position. He then got ahead of Longoria on a fastball (called strike) and two sliders (foul) before throwing an ass-seeking fastball that no batter could avoid.

After throwing those first 7 pitches for strikes, DLS got a bit wild. His slider was up a bit, and after plunking Longoria he seemed like he was a trying too hard not to come inside on another batter (which is understandable in an All-Star game). But the velocity, which has been said to get better, or at least stay with him, as the game wears on, kept climbing the more pitches he threw. His last pitch to Lillibridge, a fastball that tailed back to the outside corner, registered 96 on the ESPN gun and 97 on the in-stadium readout.

He was very impressive for a pitcher in low-A ball, and could easily succeed with his current repertoire at any minor league level, but the Sox should stick with a one-level-at-a-time approach with him, as he'll need to develop a third pitch if he ever hopes to be a top-of-the-rotation starter in the majors. He should probably go to Winston-Salem soon, though Aaron Poreda's next destination may have something to do with that call.

As I've been known to do in the past, I fell asleep before getting to write about the Buehrle signing. I wrote this immediately following the Futures game, and don't feel like adding anything at 1 AM. More on Buehrle and the future over our three days without White Sox baseball.

0 recs | Comment 89 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Change isn't that hard to teach.

And Coop can always teach him the cutter. You're in deeper stuff when you don't have a breaking pitch and your change/split isn't top notch. If he's already got two plus, possibly plus plus pitches, anything else is gravy.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 4:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I

think Cheat is getting a tad carried away with this kid after reading Keith Law'w article....the gun showing was up to 5mph too fast...also, he didn't mention him at all in the article. I think he's probably still a good prospect, but if Cheat's glowing evaluation was based mainly on velocity, perhaps it should be tempered a little.

by dantesox on Jul 9, 2007 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

cheat's been on him for a while

his numbers overall are pretty darn good. there's a reason he was at the futures game to begin with.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously

it was DLS...and the top 60 prospects in baseball.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, sure...

There's lots of reasons to not be optimistic. He's old for his league and is only in low-A. The gun readings may have been off (how does Law know by how much they were off?) and you can never trust velocity reports from the minors.

On the other hand, his numbers are very good (McCarthy-like). He got tagged by the best prospect in baseball but held his own against the other guys. It's reaosnable to hope he got turn into a useful big league starter.

The Sox need to promote him IMO. I hate to see him wasting pitches from that arm in low A. Is Perdue the WS pitching coach? If so, he really should move up there and work with him on another pitch...

by hitlesswonder on Jul 9, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Radar gun was not up to 5mph off for DLS

If De Los Santos wasn't throwing 93-95 consistently, his reported velocity, then he was getting by with 88-90 mph fastballs; which no way in hell he was doing.

You could tell from watching he was throwing a legitimate mid-90's fastball. I know the thought of a white sox pitching prospect with such potential is too much to believe for some, but there was no mistaking his arm.

by TheKMan1 on Jul 9, 2007 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What would I have to gain

by lying about velocity? Especially when the game was televised on ESPN2, and broadcast live on the web, so that anyone here could have seen it. While I didn't see a 97 on the gun, Baseball America and Phil Rogers both reported that as his top velocity yesterday.

Every report I've read about him has said his velocity is in the mid-90's and he was reportedly throwing 95-96 in the 8th inning of his 14K 0BB outing a little over a week ago. So it wasn't just a hot gun.

That Law didn't mention DLS is an indictment of Law, not me.

As for my report being based on nothing but velocity, just take a look at his Low-A and DSL numbers. He's a legit prospect that I've been on since April.

The slider he showed was a 70 on the 20-80 scale, with the fastball being not far behind at lets say 65. He could pitch in our bullpen right now. He could pitch in high leverage situations for our bullpen right now. But he needs time to develop some more control and polish to be a starter, because that's what maximizes his value/potential.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 9, 2007 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's

good enough for me....thanks for clarifying....I want him to be good just like everyone else.

by dantesox on Jul 9, 2007 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So, sleepyhead,

now that you are awake enough tio defend yourself against scurrilous claims, what say you re: Buehrle? Last year you were dumping all over him in a very large way - overrated, lucky, etc. How do you feel now that we have him for the next 18 months, at least?

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hold up

I was dumping on the worst starting pitcher in baseball over a three month period... There was good reason to dump on him.

And despite all that so called dumping, I seemed to be the lone voice of reason in the comments about his future. In September, many wanted the Sox to dump him completely, not even picking up his option.

AS for the move itself, it was a move the Sox had to make. I didn't write anything about it Saturday night when the reports were that the Sox had rejected Buehrle's seemingly conciliatory offer. I didn't want to believe it, I didn't want to write what I would have had to write about this franchise if those reports were true. I didn't know if I could continue to write about a franchise that didn't even seem to want to win.

Now you can debate about the length and terms of his contract all you want, and there's good points to be made on both sides, but it was a move the Sox had to make. Failing to do so would have set the franchise back a couple of years, and had the unintended consequence of making Garland's impending similar decision an easy one. As it is, Garland might be out the door, but the Sox had to make sure they still had one of Garland/Buehrle, and the only way to ensure that was by re-upping with Buehrle.

Garland is due to make 12M next year, and next to vazquez, whom the Sox should keep for obvious reason, is the Sox most valuable trade piece. With Contreras stinking up the joint, I expect one of those two pitchers to be moved, despite Kenny and Ozzie's "win now" quotes, to make room for some wiggle room they'll need to sign some free agent outfielders.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 9, 2007 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i was with you cheat!

so was hitlesswonder. had to pick up that option. you, me and hitlesswonder against the world!

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't...

posting here at the time, I don't think, but I thought that was a no-brainer. You don't dump non-injured players who have shown that they can succeed at the major-league level after a bad year.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guess I was in good company on that one

Let's hope Buehrle continues to make us look good...

by hitlesswonder on Jul 9, 2007 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with the assessment - hasn't

KW said there will "definitely" be personnel changes yet this year? If Garland can untie the knots he just might be the one to go (esp. after KW said he's 'untouchable" - yeah, right).

As far as the MB stats, you were extrapolating his putrid '06 back some years. Plus, your feedback was occasionally more than tinged with vitriol. I have no problem with that - I just remember some exchanges on the site where you were, IMO, especially brutal re: the past, present, and future Buehrle. Good to see you've embraced this tiger.

Thanks for your take on this subject.

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll give you this

BA inflates radar readings...

Sighting opposing reports; first by Law

[Justin Upton] centers the ball well and showed enormous pull power in BP and in the game, when he crushed a 91-mph fastball out to left.

And BA

Justin Upton got the U.S. on the board with a line-drive solo home run in the third inning off White Sox righthander Fautino De Los Santos, and while that blast was certainly impressive, the World righthander simply missed his spot with a 96 mph fastball.

"We were trying to go with the fastball down and in," World third base coach Tim Bogar said. "The book on him is to bust him down and in with the fastball and then set him up away. But it rode back up and away and it was over."

ESPN showed the same pitch as a 93 or 94 MPH fastball (I actually don't think it displayed, but all the fastballs before it were 93 and everything after it was 94 and up.) And MiLB gameday had it as a 93 MPH pitch.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jul 9, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BA

Drives me nuts. You really can subtract at least 2 MPH from anything the report & they've been doing that for a while.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 9, 2007 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

DLS's ascent

is VERY good news for the Sox Latin American scouting. The Sox have been very weak in this area getting talent. If this is the start of a trend, the sox farm system could use this boost.

by cfisk72 on Jul 9, 2007 6:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees are coming.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/09/sports/baseball/09pitchers.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

by ballyb on Jul 9, 2007 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I'm just thankful it took Cashman

this long to figure out that top dollar doesn't have to go to just free agents. We are going to be in an intensely anti-Yankee mode for a while, I suspect. Hughes, Joba, Clippard and Kennedy are all at or near major league ready and then Humberto and Detances both have top of the rotation projection. Even if it doesn't all pan out, you're still looking at at least 3 average low cost pitchers, on top of Wang. The upside is scary.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

damn

I thought it was Faustino, not Fautino. That is disappointing b/c I wanted a pitcher named Faust.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Jul 9, 2007 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

one 's' away from a sweet Bud Bundy

nickname too.

by hscs on Jul 9, 2007 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I enjoyed many a pitcher

of Falstaff.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jul 9, 2007 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Surprised me too

I kept thinking Faustino

by omnipotent grab on Jul 9, 2007 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It is Faustino

Im guessing Cheat was drinking in celebration for once, after he heard the Buehrle news.

by omnipotent grab on Jul 9, 2007 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

unless kannapolis doesn't know the names of

their players, it is "fautino." i rather doubt any sane spanish-speaker would name their child after the devil. but there seems to be lots of confusion over it so who really knows?

http://www.intimidatorsbaseball.com/clubhouse/players.asp?playerId=107

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Looks like Fautino

From MiLB.com:

Fautino De Los Santos, Chicago White Sox, Dominican Republic
How much of a sleeper is De Los Santos? Enough that his own first name has been misspelled (Faustino) as often if not more so than it's been spelled correctly.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Jul 9, 2007 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck it

I quit till he moves up to Birmingham.

by omnipotent grab on Jul 9, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not Faustino?

That is a better name. No offense to Fautino.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with ya

faustino sounds cool, fautino sounds dorky

by The Wizard on Jul 9, 2007 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If not Ichiro, maybe Torri?

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/460775,091SPT4.article

Rather have Ichiro.

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Oops - Torii

I can spell Ichiro.

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

God, I hope not.

I really don't want the Sox to be overpaying for Torii Hunter's decline phase.

Really, the team should be looking forward to 2010. If they decide that Anderson/Sweeney/Owens don't fit the bill for 2008, then bring in a stopgap next year until they find a long-term solution, and by "long-term", I don't mean a guy who will be 33 or 34 next year.

I'm sticking by my prediction that Darin Erstad will be the Sox centerfielder/leadoff hitter.

By the way, I wonder how Twins fans feel about Hunter openly speculating about playing for the Sox.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i love the speculation

I hope the Twins fans are tweaked by that. We can be the "Cardinals" to their "Buehrle."

But I really hope the Twins resign him to a big ass deal. Spending that $ instead of saving it for mauer, morneau, santana, etc, would be stupid.

Go Alex Cintron!! (and take Uribe with you...)

by Nordhagen on Jul 9, 2007 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find it hard to believe

Santana or Hunter will be signed by Twinks. $20-25MM/year for 5 seems steep for Twinkies to tie up in JS, and no way Hunter takes less than $15MM/year for 4-5 years. I would tie up the kids, IMO, like Cleveland did back in the 1990's with their young talent. Worked out quite well for them.

Now, my Asian Persuasian friend is a different story. Break the bank. Then get a SS and watch us ROLL.

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Getting a shortstop"...

is a lot easier said than done. I don't see a clear upgrade to Uribe on the open market.

And although I realise that this is an oversimplification, the idea that Carl Pohlad can't afford a ballplayer is humorous to me.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Time to start looking at some AAA talent for ss

Im sure we have something another team might like. Havent there been plenty of discussions on this already?

by omnipotent grab on Jul 9, 2007 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, but...

they aren't getting a top-flight shortstop prospect for Jose Contreras or Jermaine Dye. They might have a year ago, but not now.

The only way they're getting a decent young shortstop is if they deal Vazquez and/or Garland.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Garland for Escobar

that would please me.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Jul 9, 2007 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guy from the Braves?

I'm not too impressed.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what about hu?

SS prospect from the dodger I think

by The Wizard on Jul 9, 2007 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Repeating AA.

He's old for his level, and didn't do well last year.

One to watch, but I wouldn't give up a lot of value for him.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i am

although I don't know a whole lot about his defense. If it's good, he seems like a fine future SS. About a week ago I watched an at bat of his in the 9th inning in a game where the bravers were down by 1. He battled to a 3-2 count until he drove in 2. It was pretty impressive.

Foul
Foul
Foul
Ball
Play on a runner, Play on a runner, Foul
Foul
Ball
Ball
Foul
Ball in Play

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Jul 9, 2007 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are many things...

that I think work against him. He's a big guy (listed at 6'2, 200 pounds) without any power. So not only is there a real possibility that he'll be unable to stick at short, he doesn't have the power bat to carry any other position. He's a sink-or-swim type player. Not only that, but he put up pretty mediocre numbers last year in the Southern League.

If he were already in the organization, I'd give him a long look, but no way would I trade Garland or Vazquez for him.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

without any power?

i guess he doesn't have home run power but his slugging in the minors looks pretty decent and that OBP looks fine to me. i wouldn't do it straight up but he's definitely someone to look at.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not straight up

just those being the main chips.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Jul 9, 2007 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i didn't think you were drunk; i think jerry did, though.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Small sample size...

for this year. Escobar only slugged .346 in the Southern League last year. He has shown a good eye in the past, although only five walks in 110 PAs in the majors is troubling.

I'm not saying he's not someone to watch, but he's far from a sure thing, which is what I'd want if I traded Garland or Vazquez.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

small sample size?

this year we're looking at close to 100 games now; he slugged prior to last year and after it. you may be the one looking at a small sample size, not me. we'll know soon enough. but i wouldn't put too much stock in one year in the minors that is increasingly looking like an aberration.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure he projects as a 2B

which is where he's been used by Cox to replace KJ in the lineup of late.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lillibridge is definitely the better 'spect

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

with the new ballpark on the way

anything is possible.

by hscs on Jul 9, 2007 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right now there really aren't any

SS at AA or better that I really want to talk about replacing Uribe with. At the same time, his D is declining and his bat is wretched. I'm not sure who Kenny is going to go after here.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think anyone would be an improvement

wheres that stick with a bat everybody keeps talking about?

by omnipotent grab on Jul 9, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stick with a bat?

Huh?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone suggested

that gluing a bat to a pole and putting it in the batters box would be better than having Uribe in there.

by omnipotent grab on Jul 9, 2007 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

An improvement?

Not from any of them

As bad as Uribe seems, spending money on one of those is by far worse.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am so confused...

as to why you think the Sox need three years to rebuild. Are you kidding me? We are talking about a team with a) a few cornerstone pieces in place and b) a high payroll. Why in the world do you think it's so impossible for KW to fill the holes through trading (we've got an early start on everybody else!) and free agency (Kenny's got a history of finding diamonds in the proverbial rough)? You guys act like we're the freakin' Florida Marlins and have to wait for top draft picks to pan out. Three months of shitty baseball (plus a month at the end of last season) does not require three years to fix.

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Jul 9, 2007 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lots of holes

Holes: SS,2B,3B,LF,CF,RF. 2 starting rotation slots (assuming 2 SPs are traded), 3 bullpen slots. Plus the DH is old with iffy health and the C is declining and a FA after 2008.

The Sox minor league system might have 2 players that could fill 3B and SP (Fields and Gonzalez) but you can't expect more than league average performance at best from them. The Sox can't fill the other holes through FA. They lack the payroll flexibility and there just aren't that many good FAs that will be in their price range.

The Sox could compete before 2010, but that will require some great trades by KW and some Sox minor leaguers to have unforessen breakout seasons.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 9, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Sox Top Pos. Prospects

...and their rough ETA:

SS - Sergio Miranda ('10)
2B - Richar ('08), then Getz ('09-'10)
3B - Fields (now)
LF - BA ('08)
CF - Sweeney ('08)
RF - none, really.
1B/DH - Chris Carter ('10)

SP - Floyd ('08)
SP - Gio ('09)
SP - Broadway ('09)
SP - Egbert ('09)
SP - DLS ('10)

The biggest problem in our system, aside from the lack of top end, is that there is literally 1 decent positional prospect in AA or A+ and he's injured (Getz). That's just really bad.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep in mind...

that the Sox are in the toughest division in baseball, and they're competing against teams that are in the prime of their success cycle. Unless Reinsdorf turns into George Steinbrenner and doubles the payroll, they're not going to turn into contenders overnight.

Even if all goes well, I see another tough season in 2008 as the youngsters adapt to life in the majors, followed by respectability (@ .500) in 2009, then real contention in 2010. If all goes well.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, you guys aren't going to convince me.

Everyone is so quick to toss players to the scrap heap after a bad first half. Is Iguchi suddenly finished? His bat has been awesome for the past month (fielding...passable when he's hitting), plus he's cheap. What's happened to Uribe? His hot/cold bat and great defense were good enough in '05 but this first half means he's done? I'll give you the outfield problems but that's gonna be a strong targeting point for Kenny to work on. Fields could be in left if Crede recovers well enough to play, since it looks like the Sox will be the ones giving him his next shot, and if it doesn't go well we have Fields. Then you're looking at the bullpen and it's not like bullpen guys (outside of closers) are the highest priced guys around. AND FINALLY...do you really think Kenny will fuck up our rotation enough this offseason after they've been the best part about the team all year? I see him keeping everyone but Contreras.

And I don't think I'm talking about a huge salary increase to fix our problems.

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Jul 9, 2007 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm...

Iguchi will likely be gone next year, maybe before then.

Thome will be another year older, and catching is becoming more and more of an issue. I don't know if you've noticed, but Pierzynski hasn't hit for crap this year and has never been a great defender, and the team lacks a backup.

The team doesn't have one or two or even five or six gaping holes to fill - they have nine or ten, and barring a miracle, Ken Williams isn't going to fill all of them, or even most of them, this winter.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Official Press Release:

Sox To Take '08 Season Off, Hope For Respectablilty In '09, Look To Compete In '10?

At this point there isn't really much to argue about because only one move has been made (a great initial step), so I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude before I scrap the '08 season. And I don't think you've made any arguments about the Sox that you couldn't have made before last season about the Over-the-Hill Cardinals, who had one starting pitcher and one bat that were worth a damn.

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Jul 9, 2007 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And won 83 games.

83 wins (which I'd argue is probably a nest-case scenario for next year) isn't going to accomplish much in the AL Central in 2008.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

perhaps a touch early to be writing things off. you know, prior season is barely halfway over, free agency hasn't begun, no winter meeting horse trading, no idea what anyone's roster - let alone our own - will actually look like. no, fuck it, it's over. and let's just have computers play the games for us, too.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not writing next year off...

I'm just saying that Ken Williams should be making a play for the long-term. If a bunch of young players simultaneously pan out, that would be terrific, but if Williams goes into this winter thinking that this team can be a strong contender in 2008 and makes moves accordingly, I think the team's in serious trouble. That's what teams like the Rangers and Giants and Orioles do, and that's why they're perennial doormats.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

when has KW - let alone JR - ever done anything that suggests he would splash money on one or two big free agents and that's it?

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If anything, KW might be accused of turning

over the portfolio too frequently, right? Standing pat is not his style.

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That seems to be...

what a lot of people around here want to do - dump a lot of money on Ichiro Suzuki and that will fix all the team's problems.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you know people float all sorts of crazy ideas

on here. doesn't make it reality.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now just a durn minute here

Nobody is "dumping" anything. Ichiro would solve around 3 of your gaping gashes in one signing (defensive OF/speed/leadoff), is a perennial AS, and would bring more fans to the park (me, for one). And though I don't agree with the amount of gaping holes you see, we need to address SS, middle relief, and another OF corner badly.

Ichiro won't fix it in one fell swoop - he'd be a damn good start. Like 2000 sports agents at the bottom of the ocean. (Can't tell that joke as it ought to be told.)

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And how...

are you going to fix your other holes once you've blown the budget on Suzuki?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same way we fixed them in '05 -

mid-level trades, FA scrap heap, someone bursting forth in the minors.

And a little bit of "magic". (Greenies.)

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Seems dicey...

to me. A huge gamble.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

run the numbers

signing ichiro (something i consider quite a longshot - i actually expect him to sign an extension with SEA soon) wouldn't blow the budget. JD ($6.75 million), iguchi ($3.25 million), pods ($2.9 million), mack ($2.75 million), and cintron ($1.9 million) would probably get you there. all these players will likely be replaced on the roster with league minimum players. we're not even counting the likely salary dump of a pitcher, which would be another $10-12 million being replaced by a league minimum. there will be plenty of cash available for both a big FA splash - if KW wants to go that way - and the more usual KW roster moves.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

You let those five players go, and it adds up to $17.55 million, which is Suzuki and four minor-leaguers. The money saved by dumping Contreras or Garland or Vazquez will likely get eaten up by raises to players already under contract or are arb-eligible.

If Williams brings in Suzuki (which I agree is unlikely - the Mariners have too much to lose by letting him go), that's it. That's his move for the winter.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jul 9, 2007 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ichiro makes sense

I think he's about the safest big buck FA you could find; very consistent and a real difference-maker. He's super-fun to watch, and could become a Chicago icon. I expect Kenny to make a lot of noise about courting him, but not really being serious about it (ala A-Rod). It would take an Albert Belle type shocker to land him.

I think the Sox have had success spreading the payroll around, and will continue to do that. I guess a Mike Cameron guy for a couple yrs @ $15M is what they would be looking to do.

Go Alex Cintron!! (and take Uribe with you...)

by Nordhagen on Jul 9, 2007 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Too much logic here!

I'm dreaming...of an OF that has one man playing all 3 positions at once - ICHIRO! Like the King and His Court.

Plus, he gets to hit more often if he plays ALL OF. Only 7 batters. What's not to like?

Hey, they play 2 man volleyball teams when 6 is the norm! Get creative!

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

jerry

i guess you're not buying the two pitchers getting dealt like i am. we'll see. loooooooong way to go.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nine or ten GAPING holes?

I'm not seeing it.

C - Hall and Pierzynski obviously won't be competing with Joe Mauer or Brian McCann for best catcher(s) in the league, but when Hall is actually healthy next season, I think we can expect average (for a catcher) production at that position.

1B - Konerko figures to be above average for next season, although it wouldn't surprise me if this is the first year of a slow decline for PK.

2B - We might be getting into semantics here, but I don't see 2B as a gaping hole. Maybe I'm looking through the black-and-white colored shades, but I really (want to?) believe the Sox found something in Danny Richar who has an .866 OPS. I can understand the skepticism about Richar, as he's never played at this type of level before, but I'd like to think of it as a toolsy prospect finally putting things together. Plus, it wouldn't be the first time the D'Backs got in wrong on a 2B-man. So I guess what I'm saying is that overall, I don't see 2B as a gaping hole.

SS - Below average production here, with or without Uribe, as there aren't many good (any?) SSs on the market.

3B - I'd expect average production here from Fields with an average bat and average-ish defense.

OF - Okay, here's where the White Sox are in trouble. I see one OFer on the roster that I know I want on the team next year, and that's Terrero in a 4th OFer role. The future of the Sox' outfield, as currently constructed, is one big gaping hole of suck. My hope is that Dye and/or Contreras is able to fetch one of Quentin or Milledge, and that Kenny is able to sign a free agent outfielder -- if they're not going to go after Ichiro, I think Milton Bradley would be a good option. Kenny has a lot of work to do here.

Pitching - This is obviously the strength of the White Sox. I love where the rotation is at, with the one exception of Contreras and his contract. I like the top three of Buehrle/Garland/Vazquez, love having Danks towards the back and figure one of Floyd/Haeger/Gonzalez/Egbert to be able to fill in the fifth spot.

And truth be told, I'm not really worried about the bullpen. They have enough arms there, throw a bunch of them at the wall and hope some of them stick. Jenks and Logan look solid in their roles, I'd figure one of Thorton or MacDougal should bounce back and as for the other bullpen spots, like I said -- throw a bunch of them at a wall (Wassermann, Perez, Day) and hope one or two stick.

by CWSKeith on Jul 9, 2007 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again with the reiteration of "truth",

Keith? Hmmmmm - I think you need to go to Confession - something's eating at you, bro.

;)

by winningugly on Jul 9, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

jerry's just making a strong play

for the hyperbolic, let's all jump off the ledge poster of the day award.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Attempting to be rational....

Continuing to go with larry's advice, I'm more optimistic about 2008 than I have been (although maybe not as much as Keith). I think the Sox can be a good team next year with good GMing and some luck.

Good GMing: The Sox need to get something good for the outfield and some OBP at the top of the order. Hopefully trades of Garland(?), Dye(?), or Conteras (offseason after a better 2nd half?) or possibly a FA signing can get that done.

Luck: I would bet Crede is at 3rd again next season and Fields maybe in LF and Gio in the rotation. So the luck part would be Crede, Fields, Danks, and Gio all being league average at least without anyone else falling off a cliff. The Sox probably also need to find another starter still -- that might require a little more luck as I don't see Floyd being that guy.

One reason for optimism: the Sox have been so bad in some areas (bullpen, CF/LF production) that they are almost bound to improve next season. It would be terribly unlucky to bring in 3 new bullpen guys and not have 1 be league average again. A free agent signing, a minor leaguer stepping up, and Mac remembering how to pitch isn't too crazy to happen.

So, I doubt the Sox can be playoff team next season. But I've come around to thinking they can be a good team (.500 or over). And I hate to write an entire year, especially when it seems like the Sox will be willing to have a reasonably high payroll again. For all the firesale & rebuilding projects that come to fruition (Marlins), a lot end up just spinning their wheels.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 9, 2007 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hitless being semi-optimistic?

Is it the apocalypse? I kid, I kid.

I'm actually not as optimistic as I made it seem in my post. I still believe we're a step below Detroit and Cleveland for the near future. It would take some great GMing over the next six months to have me believing that the Sox are neck-and-neck with either of those two ballclubs.

Minny is a different story. When Torii leaves next year, do they have somebody to replace him? And Johan the year after? Is Liriano going to come back 100% after Tommy John? They got some work to do as well.

by CWSKeith on Jul 9, 2007 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sox attendance

One reason I'm more optimistic about next season is the attendance. This year's numbers look OK enough that it seems like the Sox will be willing to have a $90M to maybe $100M payroll again next season. That doesn't happen all the time, and Williams shouldn't waste the opportunity by preemptively declaring defeat.

I like listening to baseball in the summer and my personal threshold for every season is that the Sox play meaningful games in September. So I'd like that to happen in 2008. And I'd also like some better announcers, too.

by hitlesswonder on Jul 9, 2007 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think "rebuild"

might mean something different to you. Personally, I don't mean tanking it in order to get the picks and prospects. But our next chance to compete for a championship, based on the upcoming free agent classes, the apparent talent in the system and our own trading pieces, seems to be '09 with a better one in '10.

by colintj on Jul 9, 2007 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ya know who I saw pitch

in the 2003 Futures game? Neal Cotts...currently playing for the AAA Schlubs.

President - Johnny Dickshot Fan Club

by tailgater on Jul 9, 2007 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I saw Buehrle pitch

in the 2000 Futures Game. Garland was actually supposed to be in it, but the Sox called him up shortly before the game. Aaron Myette pitched in the game as well.

The MVP of the game was the great Sean Burroughs, who is currently out of baseball at age 26.

by Bull Pain on Jul 9, 2007 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i saw a stat

that something like 24 futures game alums were playing in the all-star game this week. keeping in mind both that all-star games are popularity contests to a degree and that the futures game has only been played since 99 or so, that's a decent rate of return. i'd be interested in seeing how many alums have stuck in the majors.

Yeaaah. I'm gonna need you to go ahead and provide me with an official press release on that. OK? Great.

by larry on Jul 9, 2007 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs