Jose Contreras 6 starts from becoming first White Sox 20-game loser in my lifetime

by The Cheat on Jul 31, 2007 11:02 PM CDT in Recaps Comment 82 comments

Tuesday night was the third time in White Sox history that the Sox have allowed 7 or more home runs in a single game, with the last being the infamous Mike Cameron/Jim Parque game. Coincidently this was the first such game that did not feature James Baldwin, who was the winning pitcher for the Mariners in the Cameron/Parque game, and amazingly avoided the loss in his fourth career start, during which he allowed 4 HR in just 1.2 innings pitched. It was the first time in White Sox history that they allowed 8 HR in a single game.
The Sox offense has never hit 7 or more in a single game. They've hit 6 HR in a game 9 times since 1974 with the last coming in June of 2004 against the Phillies.
Because the Sox ridiculous performance forced me to play with Baseball-Reference's play index, I stumbled onto a list of the Sox 20-game losers, which includes Hall of Famers Ted Lyons and Ed Walsh plus knuckleballer Wilbur Wood. Of course, most of those pitchers had workloads well beyond what pitchers today throw. In fact, only one of the offending pitchers recorded single-digit Complete Games during their 20-loss campaign. Contreras has 3 complete games in his career.
The last time the White Sox scored a a run that didn't come via the HR was on a Juan Uribe double Friday in the 6th inning. In fact, Uribe has driven in 5 of the Sox last 8 runs.

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We need.......

Jose to announce he's 55 and will retire....or Juan to shoot him.

by stanchar on Jul 31, 2007 11:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

deer in headlights look

why is it everyone hates leaving this team, and are big guns fall apart after their wives leave them..e.g. Frank and now Jose

Please - someone in the front office get every players anniversary dates and wives birthdays and send them something nice from the guys playing on the team, and remind the player daily!

by tubesox on Aug 1, 2007 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hope Contreras continues to start

I'm interested how much longer Hawk/DJ can continue making excuses for him. It was pathetic listening to them suggesting Contreras is "due," or how his 145+ hits in a litte over 100 innings were soft and bloopers.

It'll make the rest of the season entertaining, if nothing else. Guillen has to worry about the self esteem of his player. Those Cubans are proud.

by TheKMan1 on Aug 1, 2007 12:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess the main question is...

what now?

- What now with Contreras? You've got to DL him, right?

-What now with Dye? I assume you keep him to the end of the season, offer him arbitration and take the picks. But you still put him on waivers and see if you can get a decent offer from a team that might get desperate, right? The return would have to be for guys not on the recipient's 40-man roster, IIRC.

The next order of business should be getting rid of Podsednik. Pass him through waivers and look for another Dubee type. He plays one position and is otherwise useless. I'm not huge on getting Sweeney up here -- he'd be eaten alive just like his last stint -- but I'd rather see Owens, Terrero and Erstad share time in LF and CF. Hell, if part of the plan for next season involves bringing Crede back on a one year deal and putting Fields in the OF, give Fields some occasional at-bats from LF.

This was just another depressing day in a depressing season. Of all those teams in contention in the NL, not one would step up and give Kenny a better offer than Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen? That saddens me.

by CWSKeith on Aug 1, 2007 2:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

no way

JD gets through waivers. i'd claim him just to get the draft picks, let alone the obvious reasons.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

if the Red Sox were willing to give up Wily Mo Pena and Craig Hansen for Dye, why would they not simply claim Dye? And the Red Sox wouldn't even get the chance to claim Dye because some other A.L. team with a worse record would first.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Putting Dye on waivers is ridiculous

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no, it's not ridiculous

it just won't accomplish anything because there's no way he gets through.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and we will lose the draft picks, yes?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and gain the players we get in trade

if he passes through. see below for a nice analysis of the true value of these draft picks.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but he won't pass through

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no chance

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

right. then it's ridiculous

and useless. it doesn't benefit the club to lose draft picks, no matter what the "value" of them are, they have some value, and some picks are better than none.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what are you talking about?

we don't lose him if we place him on waivers. as SSH says below, you can pull him back if he's claimed. we lose nothing by trying.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm saying it's useless and a waste

of time. because he won't make it through without being claimed. it's a moot point. it's not going to happen. putting him on waivers simply to see if he makes it through would probably only serve to piss Dye off. Who knows, maybe he'll play better, actually.

Doesn't matter, because this season has been sunk for months.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

waste of time?

yeah, takes a whole lot of that to put someone on waivers. and it's only useless after the fact - you can cite quite a few players who have unexpectedly passed through. i'm really confused what you're arguing because it keeps changing. placing players on waivers sometime during this month is pretty much a pro forma thing for teams and is quite sensible.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understand the process, Larry

this isn't my first season of following baseball.

I'm saying that he won't clear waivers, so it's a moot point.

I suppose he could feasibly clear, and then be traded, but who could we really get that would matter? It's better now to simply keep him and get the draft picks, IMO, than get some crappy rental or low A "prospect".

Contreras, on the other hand, could very well clear waivers, and I'm all for that.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it sure sounds like it is

if you call trying to get a player through waivers an idea deserving ridicule and contempt.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not just any player, Larry,

but one whom we all agree wouldn't clear, and one whom if we kept, would provide us with 2 draft picks that we can use to rebuild this team.

Discussing Dye going through waivers is a moot point, because he won't, and even if he does, I believe any picks we get if we kept him are going to be better than anything we could get.

But I could be wrong, I've been wrong before.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

putting him on waivers simply to see if he makes it through would probably only serve to piss Dye off. Who knows, maybe he'll play better, actually.

will he be informed of being put on waivers?

by The Wizard on Aug 1, 2007 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no

it's often leaked by some other team, though, that a player was on waivers.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even if a team places a player on waivers...

they can always pull him back. It's not the same as DFA'ing a player.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

and it happens all the time. Most teams try to pass most of their guys through waivers, and if they're claimed they just pull them back. There is no down side and if they pass through you can then trade them.

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

but Dye isn't going to make it through without being claimed. It's a moot point. Not worth discussing. If people were willing to trade for him before, what makes ya think ppl wouldn't claim him?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so stop discussing it

you're the one who has kept this going.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, then let's discuss Contreras

He could feasibly clear. If he gets traded to a contender before Aug 31, you think we would have to eat his salary, and what kind of players do you think we could get?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He'd almost definitely clear waivers...

and if someone took him, the Sox would probably let him go.

How much does he have left on his contract? If the Sox picked up, say, half of what was left, another team might give up a "B" prospect or two to see if he has anything in the tank.

But that's purely speculation - I'm no scout. It's entirely possible that other teams have scouted him and decided that he's worthless.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it would be great

if some team just claimed him. that would make the rest of the season and probably the offseason, too.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we'd have to eat monstrous amounts

to get a player worthwhile. heck, we'd probably have to eat large amounts just to move him for a bag of balls. as it stands, i just don't see anyone wanting him at any price. maybe if a contender lost a starter or probably two they'd do it but he's pitching far, far below replacement level right now.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree, we'd have to eat large $$$

and I doubt we could get anything worthwhile in return. Maybe he can go on the 15 day DL immediately and recuperate, prove himself better through 1 outing or so, then get traded before the Aug. 31 deadline to some contender.

That seems like best case scenario.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are

many different scenarios that could happen. For example let's say that JD Drew or Big Papi goes down for a month in the next 2 weeks and the Yankees close the gap to 3 games. Suddenly Boston needs JD a lot more than they did. If he passes through waivers up to Boston's position he is then eligible to be traded to them for a package more suitable to KW's liking.

Or even the reverse. Big Papi and JD get healthy and start killing the ball. Wily Mo returns to his typical .800 OPS self. Suddenly they really don't need Dye. Why take on the extra salary when you don't even really a have an open platoon spot?

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the bright side

Detroit and cleaveland lost, so we didn't fall another game back! I'm glad we kept Dye to make a run at the playoffs.

by boyonthedock on Aug 1, 2007 3:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Sound like he wants to blow his brains out

"If coming out of the bullpen is helping the team, that's what I'm going to have to do," Contreras said. "I'm embarrassed for myself, my fans, my family, my team. I'm not happy with the way I'm pitching."

I'm a disgruntled Whitesox fan and I can't spell

by chisox on Aug 1, 2007 5:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'll never forget that Mike Cameron game

In fact, now that I think about it, I dreamed last night Mike Cameron hist 5 homers vs the Sox. Too bad the Sox aren't even good in my dreams.

My dream for Jose is he's put on waivers and someone is clueless enough to try and "block" another team from getting him.

-Jeeves Life in the Cell, a Sweet Home Sports site

by jeeves on Aug 1, 2007 7:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Indians to DFA righty reliever Fernando Cabrera?

The Indians are expected to designate Fernando Cabrera for assignment to make room for Aaron Fultz, who is due to come off the DL.
The club has tried to harness Cabrera's potential, but it just hasn't happened. A trade is likely. His is the type of arm every non-contender should be looking to acquire.

Kenny should try to claim him. We need bullpen help for next season and Cabrera still has a good arm, even if he hasn't put it all together.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 7:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And they did...

"Cabrera designated for assignment
Indians decide to give up on struggling right-hander"

I assume the Indians would take a minor league reliever for him. Cabrera is still only 25 years old and his fastball is in the upper 90's. Kenny should look to trade the two sucky Single A relievers he got for Iguchi and Mackowiak for Cabrera.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sox news...

Jermaine Dye indicated Tuesday that his agent is negotiating a multi-year contract extension with the White Sox after not being traded at the deadline. "Something probably can get done," Dye said.

Former first-round pick Kris Honel has told the White Sox that he is retiring.

After watching him struggle again Tuesday, manager Ozzie Guillen indicated that he may pull Jose Contreras from the rotation. "It will be discussed, I know that," Guillen said.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 8:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess extending a declining, 33 year old RF'er..

is better than drafting a couple more Kris Honel's.

So much for rebuilding an old, terrible team.

Jesus, Kenny is awful.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is no room for Dye past next year

This year and next year are the only years when keeping JD would be ok. Mainly because we dont have a capable right fielder in the system right now but also because the free agent pool for next year will be pretty dry. As for as DHing, we already have Paulie once Thome is gone after '08.

by omnipotent grab on Aug 1, 2007 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha...

The trade of Mackowiak corresponded with the activation of left-handed-hitting outfielder Darin Erstad from a minor-league rehab assignment.

"It came down to the number of lefties we had in the lineup and coming off the bench," Williams said. "It was not the day we had hoped for."

Does Kenny actually expect Sox fans to believe this crap?

Meanwhile, the Sox cleared more than $1 million this year by trading Mackowiak, for whom they held a $3.25 million option for 2008.

Ahhh, there's the truth.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha...

Poor Mack. It was either him or Erstad. Erstad doesn't even have both ankles.

Seriously, though, this has to be seen as a salary move. Ozzie obviously doesn't care about lefties/righties in his lineups. We haven't been blind the past two years.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 8:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

VG. Sad commentary.

Poor Mack. It was either him or Erstad.

Or it could have been.

Poor Grady Sizemore. It was either him or Erstad.
"It came down to the number of lefties we had in the lineup and coming off the bench,"

They just love the guy.

by ballyb on Aug 1, 2007 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotta get Erstad back in our lineup...

We need GrindErstad in there if we want to have any shot at the Wild Card. Why waste AB's on Ryan Sweeney?

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aw, Hellllllllllll NO!

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm...

I thought Contreras needed a long time to get warmed up, or something, so he couldn't be used out of the 'pen. Or does this mean he'll go on the DL?

I like Jermaine Dye quite a bit, and it's not like he's blocking anyone. Whether or not bringing Dye back is a good idea would depend on the terms of his contract - it's not like bringing Podsednik back, or anything. If it's 2 years, $20 million or thereabouts, I wouldn't be unhappy with that.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Schaffer looks dumber all the time

sigh

by Big Daddy Kool on Aug 1, 2007 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

THT on the value of draft picks

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/deadline-draft-picks/

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Aug 1, 2007 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yep...

and the picks will only be as good as the organizations drafting them. Excuse me if I don't trust the Sox to make the right choices come draft day with the picks they would get from Dye.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Assuming they don't resign

White Sox baseball, let the kids learn to play

by Brush Back on Aug 1, 2007 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

that article overstates the low value of picks. Yes they are not worth much as compared to starting MLB players.

As an example they used Masterson to illustrate the point. So i'll use him as well. Masterson is more valuable than a first round pick, but is he more valuable than 2 picks? Masterson has all of 4 starts at the AA level after posting a fairly mediocre 4.33 ERA at high A. He is not a sure thing by any means. Maybe his chances of being a league average starting pithcer are 25%. I would say that you would have a 25-30% chance (depending on organization) of getting a league average starting pitcher (or equivalent position player) from 2 1st round picks. Of course the other value of Masterson is that his bonus has already been payed. So overall Masterson probably has more value than the pics, but not a lot more.

The point is that those picks do have value, it just may not be as high as some in the media think.

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know

I just wrote an email to a Twins fan friend of mine about Tyner being a first round pick, I'll paste it here:

How crazy is the MLB draft? Lets take a look at the guys in the first round in 98 draft (not going to look at supplemental) who haven't even reached the majors.

6 Ryan Mills (Twins)
11 Josh McKinley (Nationals)
13 JM Gold (Brewers)
15 Clint Johnston (Pirates)
24 Andy Brown (Yankees)
26 Rick Elder (Orioles)
29 Arturo McDowell (Giants)
30 Matt Burch (Royals)

So that makes 8 out of 30, so at the worst...Tyner is the 22nd best player in the draft.

Now guys who have clearly had better careers:
1 Pat Burrell (Phillies)
2 Matt Mulder (Athletics)
5 JD Drew (Cardinals)
7 Austin Kearns (Reds)
10 Carlos Pena (Rangers)
12 Adam Everett (Red Sox)
17 Brad Lidge (Astros)
20 CC Sabathia (Indians)

So that is 8, lets look at guys similiar to Tyner
3 Corey Patterson (Cubs)
8 Felipe Lopez (Blue Jays)
9 Sean Burroughs (Padres)
14 Jeff Weaver (Tigers)
16 Kip Wells (White Sox)
22 Matt Thornton (Mariners)

I'd put Patterson & Lopez ahead of Tyner and Burroughs & Thornton behind him. So, he is somewhere between the 11th - 13th best player in the draft.

Finally, guys taken in the Supplemental first round:

33 Brad Wilkerson (Nationals)
35 Aaron Rowand (White Sox)
43 Mark Prior (Yankees) > He didn't sign.

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Aug 1, 2007 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

that kinda makes my point. I count 14 out of 43 that at some point made a contribution equivalent to a league average starter. That's 33%. Which seems about right. In fact, I may have undersold the value of the picks, since I said that you had a 25% chance of getting an equivalent to a league average starter with 2 picks. That's probably counterbalanced by the fact that the picks will be late in the first round. So 25% is probably about right. And we haven't even talked about upside here.

As an example, Masterson's averageish K rate tells me he'll never be a star. But what if you lucked up and got a CC Sabathia with one of those picks? Now that might be a one in thirty chance or even 1 in 50, but that's better than Masteron's chances of being a star. All in all I'm thinking the pics are about equivalent to a Masterson. Now Buccholz or even Gio? Their value is far above that of the pics.

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No mo Willy Mo

It's not the draft picks, it's more like - do you want to be stuck with a useless baseclogger like Willy Mo Pena and his ~$5mm next year and then lose him to FA after that? Hansen is worthless too.

Why waste payroll on Pena next year? The player KW really wanted was Delcarmen, he was willing to take on Pena's salary to make the deal work.

Epstein held out for Pena and Hansen - good for them, useless for us. If we could control Pena for three years or so then it might have made sense. But this team is going nowhere next year, we don't need players like him for one year.

It was a no-brainer turning down that deal, it made no sense financially. I don't think our two draft picks ever came into the calculations.

by ChicagoPete on Aug 1, 2007 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

we disagree on the value of Wily Mo. However, as I stated multiple times, we definitely agree on the trade. I was completely against a Wily and Hansen for JD trade. I was for a Wily + masterson or delcarmen trade.

For me draft picks really came into play more on our end than their end. That is I'd much rather have picks than one year of Wily and Hansen.

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

The article does misstate the value of draft picks -

"It may be fun to have handful of supplemental picks come draft day, but in terms of value, it's not much different than getting a couple of extra 26-year-old Triple-A relievers from your trading partner."

Really, you're comparing things that have nothing to do with each other. Just as the article points out that you can't compare a pick that panned out to a future, unknown pick, you can't compare a known commodity to an unknown commodity.

The 26-year-old AAA reliever (let's call him "Ryan Bukvich") is a known commodity. He might be able to give you some mediocre-to-bad innings out of the major-league pen, and if that's what you're looking for, that's fine.

But a draft pick is, to a large extent, an unknown commodity. The "can't miss" guys are usually gone by the time those comp. picks come up, so you're looking at someone with promise who might or might not pan out. Whether that's worth something depends entirely on the team.

It's impossible to make a blanket statement about the value of a draft pick.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

of course you can make a blanket statement about their value. you look at what has happened in the past. you're arguing about potential. sure, you could strike gold but you could also strike shit - and everything in between. that doesn't mean that you can't place a value on that.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What I meant was...

you can't produce an absolute value to a draft pick, as the article seems to want to do. You can't say that "a draft pick is worth the same as a 26-year-old AAA reliever" or "it's worth $1M", or something similar. It probably means something different to every team, depending on their needs at the time, their organizational philosophy, and who they're interested in drafting. A draft pick might mean one thing to Brian Sabean but something completely different to John Schuerholz.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love to see these comments - Santana not happy.

Johan Santana expressed unhappiness Tuesday that the Twins traded Luis Castillo and failed to make any further moves before the deadline.
"It's not just about hope," Santana said. "In a realistic world, you have to really make it happen and go for it. You always talk about future, future. But if you only worry about the future, then I guess a lot of us won't be part of it. Why waste time when you're talking about something that's always going to be like that? It's never going to be beyond this point. It doesn't make any sense for me to be here, you know?" Expect his quotes to spawn approximately 1,000 new "Santana to the Yankees?" articles in the New York newspapers.

Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

yes! Twins not happy!

deriving pleasure from Twins pain is fine with me. The rest of the season will strictly be an exercise in schadenfreud...

Go Alex Cintron!! (and take Uribe with you...)

by Nordhagen on Aug 1, 2007 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's right.

the Twinkies did not improve their team when desperately needed to. Expecting that lineup to out-hit the Tigers and Indians is a mistake. Not gonna happen.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know...

I give Terry Ryan credit for making a tough decision on this season.

For the Twins to make the playoffs this year, they'll have to pass at least three teams in the standings. Now, trading Castillo seemed sort of pointless, as they didn't really get anything back and it hurt clubhouse morale, but all things considered, I don't know that it would have been a good idea to trade away young talent in an attempt to salvage this season.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no, jerry. you do know. it's a bad idea.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yesterday captured the 2007 season perfectly

The trade deadline passes with barely a whimper and then they get sand pounded up their ass by a team that (although I hate them) is all about spending money and making deals.

Beautiful.

President - Johnny Dickshot Fan Club

by tailgater on Aug 1, 2007 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Kenny found his LF replacement for Podsednik...

Padres designated outfielder Jose Cruz Jr. for assignment.
Change for the sake of change. The Padres can't get rid of more of their regulars, so they're bringing in a new bench. Cruz did finish July 2-for-36, but with just one start over the last two weeks, he was barely given a chance to pull out of it. Rob Mackowiak will replace him as the Padres' fourth outfielder. He doesn't offer as much range as Cruz, but that's less of a problem with Milton Bradley available to move to center if something happens to Mike Cameron.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm still pissed at him

cause his Rookie Card was worth alot and now it's worth shit

Xbox live: Marco es DRUNK

by marco054 on Aug 1, 2007 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotta sell high... basic stock theory :)

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Aug 1, 2007 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Many athletes have screwed me over

Shawn Kemp, Damon Stoudamire, Kordell Stewart, Curtis Enis, Ki-Jana Carter. Good thing i don't buy cards anymore except for the Liriano and Ryan Howard ones i got last year

Xbox live: Marco es DRUNK

by marco054 on Aug 1, 2007 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

might as well

from the 95 draft, the White Sox have the first pick (Erstad), have had the 2nd pick (Ben Davis) and might as well have the 3rd pick (Jose Cruz).

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Aug 1, 2007 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bit of trivia...

The White Sox drafted J.J. Putz in 1995 (he didn't sign, obviously).

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Aug 1, 2007 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Others

Nate Robertson: twice
Scott Hairston
Eric Gagne
Placido Polanco
Zach Jackson

Go Badgers!

by shaftr on Aug 1, 2007 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boy, are we royally screwed with Jose or what?

You can't put him on the DL, because that confirms what everyone suspects - that he's damaged goods.

You can't keep running him out there, that's a disaster.

You obviously can't trade him. You can put him on waivers, but who would claim him?

Supposedly he can't come out of the bullpen - and who wants a $10mm middle reliever anyway (besides the Cubs, that is).

What's left - DFA him and eat the contract?

The Sox have been relatively lucky up till now, we haven't had to suck on a major contract like this in a long time. This is bad, very bad - he's eating 10% of our payroll.

by ChicagoPete on Aug 1, 2007 11:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Go Tonya Harding on his ass

Lead Pipe + Pitching Arm = Early Retirement + Insurance Money

-Jeeves Life in the Cell, a Sweet Home Sports site

by jeeves on Aug 1, 2007 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rub "The Clear" on his arm

and get him busted on a drug test?

by ChicagoPete on Aug 1, 2007 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here Jose

dees stuff righ' here. It make you peetch all better. Como se llama en ingles? Ah, Flax seed oil, I theenk

-Jeeves Life in the Cell, a Sweet Home Sports site

by jeeves on Aug 1, 2007 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only

thing you can really do at this point is hope he does a Buerhle and regains that extra 3-4 MPH on his fastball and the break on his fork with an offseason of rest.

by bhoov on Aug 1, 2007 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why can't you put him on the DL?

The guy needs to be away from the game for awhile. He's not helping the team. Bring a young arm up (or MacDougal) and see what they can do.

It's nuts to keep trotting him out there.

by ballyb on Aug 1, 2007 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

DLing him

is certainly better than DFAing him and eating his contract. i said this a couple weeks ago and i'll say it again because it seems to have gained some traction - send him to the bullpen for the rest of the month. trotting him out there to start is obviously not working. if we have any notion of trading him - and i guess we should still have that notion - we can't DL him now. trying him out of the bullpen may help him "work things out" or whatever and, at the very least, allows someone else to get a look at starter. honestly, jose can't be much worse out of the pen than most of what we've been subjecting ourselves to this year.

if there's no improvement there, then you DL him. heck, even if there is improvement, i say shut him down for september.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would think shutting him down

for August would make more sense. Let him "start healing" whatever it is that's the problem. Then maybe give him 4 starts in September. Hopefully, he's better. If not, DL him again and wait til next year.

by ballyb on Aug 1, 2007 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i've said it on here before

i think he's done. like, done for career. whatever his problem is - mental/physical, injury/old age, heart/mind - i don't think he recovers. maybe we can bluff someone into taking him this august. i think it's worth the chance because we'll never get it again.

in a perfect world, he would have been DLed weeks ago. but this is a business and it's a business where egos and machismo rule. jose should have sucked it up and said something just ain't right. but he's not going to do that and the sox, at this point, aren't going to do it for him.

by larry on Aug 1, 2007 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Being the optimist that I am ;),

I'll take the other side of that.

I say he's not done, will recover, will be an average+ pitcher again.

by ballyb on Aug 1, 2007 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would agree...

if he wasn't Cuban with a real age of 50. His age is the reason he is on an inevitable and unstoppable decline.

by SSH2005 on Aug 1, 2007 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the infamous game

hey! i was at that one! i went with a girl from seattle and a buddy from boston. she didn't get why we started cheering on cameron once the game got quickly out of hand.

iirc, he was this >< close to #5. caught on the warning track. we were in the bleachers, caught a good shot of each one cam parqued in the seats.

i still might even have that scorecard packed away in some box somewhere...

by thatshortkid on Aug 1, 2007 11:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs