A Tale of Two Sides of Town

by ChicagoPete on Aug 28, 2007 2:35 PM CDT Comment 14 comments

I'll admit it, I was one of those arrogant Sox fans who laughed and laughed when Hendry went out and paid through the nose for any warm body in last year's FA market.

But who has the last laugh?

Barrett, Michael $4,533,333
Blanco, Henry $1,775,000
Cedeno, Ronny $400,000
Cotts, Neal $825,000
De Rosa, Mark $2,750,000
Dempster, Ryan $5,333,333
Eyre, Scott $3,833,333
Floyd, Cliff $3,000,000
Guzman, Angel $384,000
Hill, Rich $400,000
Howry, Bobby $4,500,000
Izturis, Cesar $4,150,000
Jones, Jacque $5,633,333
Lee, Derrek $13,250,000
Lilly, Ted $6,000,000
Marquis, Jason $4,750,000
Mateo, Juan $383,000
Miller, Wade $1,500,000
Murton, Matt $415,000
Ohman, Will $900,000
Ramirez, Aramis $9,000,000
Soriano, Alfonso $10,000,000
Theriot, Ryan $390,000
Ward, Daryle $1,000,000
Wood, Kerry $1,750,000
Wuertz, Michael $415,000
Zambrano, Carlos $12,400,000

This is how they came into April, total payroll $ 99,670,332. Hendry also found a way to unload the bad contracts of Barrett & Izturis.

The Cubs were HORRIBLE last year, but the Sox are going to end up with the same record they had. The big difference between the organizations is that instead of bullshitting their fans and telling everyone it was just a blip, Hendry admitted to the gravity of the situation. He got rid of their idiot manager who somehow had gotten a reputation as a winner (Dusty Baker) and overhauled the roster.

If you look at their roster, they don't have a third of their payroll tied up in negative VORP players:

Derrek Lee 35.7
Aramis Ramirez 32.1
Alfonso Soriano 25.0
Mark DeRosa 15.3
Ryan Theriot 15.3
Daryle Ward 9.6
Mike Fontenot 6.4
Jason Kendall 6.3
Carlos Zambrano 6.1 (wow!!!!)
Michael Barrett 5.6
Cliff Floyd 4.7
Angel Pagan 3.2
Jacque Jones 2.3
Matt Murton 0.0 (ahem)

Craig Monroe -0.7
Henry Blanco -2.4
Cesar Izturis -4.1
Felix Pie -5.2
Rob Bowen -5.5
Ronny Cedeno -7.0
Koyie Hill -7.1

I'm not a Lou Piniella fan, but he's been pretty ruthless about his assessment of their talent. If the guy sucks (Izturis, Cotts, Hill, Bowen, Pie) he doesn't play or gets cut/traded. He saw Hill & Bowen hit for two weeks and that was enough, he told Hendry get me a catcher.

Granted, they've got some long term contracts that are going to bite them in the ass - but I respect the fact that they honestly identified what was wrong with the team and then went out and rectified it.

We, on the other hand, tell our fans to look at the back of their baseball cards and hey - don't worry, it's only an aberration. Our guys suck, and we tell Hawk to fluff them up (ahem, Owens & Erstad).

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Comments

Let's not go overboard...

I think Hendry is a decent GM and Piniella is a very good manager. But lets be clear about the Cubs: they are 3 games over .500. It may look good compared to the catastrophe at the Cell, but it's not that good.

Plus, Daryle Ward, Jason Kendall, Ted Lilly, and Jason Marquis performing this well is -- I'm gonna say it -- pretty damn lucky.

The one area the Cubs organization truly outdoes the Sox is the minors. Theriot, Fontenot, Marmol, Hill, and Marshall are all guys that spent at least sometime in the Cubs system and have managed to produce in the bigs. Again, the Cubs system isn't great, it's just not the travesty the Sox system is.

Saying the Cubs organization is better than the Sox is damning with faint praise. And Hendry had a team on the cusp of the World Series in 2003 and guided the team to the disaster of 2006. I'm willing to wait and see what Williams does this offseason before deciding he should get to spend more time with his family.

by hitlesswonder on Aug 28, 2007 2:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the cubs system is pretty awful, though

they've developed some talent, sure, but they have wasted millions on signing bonuses, etc. on picks that were real bad. truly, based on where they've picked in the last decade and a half, their team and system <should> be a whole lot better than ours. it's rather pathetic that it really isn't.

damning with faint praise is right. the cubs system is bad, the sox system is just worse. the cubs are pretty average in a weak league/division, the sox are just worse.

Jerry Owens: he's a g*ddamn lead off hitter

by larry on Aug 28, 2007 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's my point

I'm not trying to say that the Cubs are some great organization that we should strive to emulate. Au contraire, they've been pretty poorly run and have made some terrible decisions - but at least they were able to admit that they had a major pile of shit of a team at the end of last year, and they took some decisive moves to rectify it instead of coming up with excuses.

From the chatter coming out of our front office (JR's grades, eg) we intend to pretty much stand pat and look at baseball cards.

But seriously, I always love speed.

by ChicagoPete on Aug 28, 2007 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bringing on Suite Lou

as funny as it was to take bets on when he'd implode. Looks to have worked out well so far. I'd bet he has a LOT of input on personnel moves, and it's worked out well so far. Maybe his problem at Tampa was his owner didn't pony up the cash, which the pre-Zell Trib was doling out. Plus, he gets kudos from me for firing up his team rather than having them play patsy, get anally raped at home, and then tell everyone that they are "doing their jobs". Good to see dugout fights not being attributed to "So and so being so and so", but rather a serious disagreement on effort/focus/commitment.

Agreed re: our talent infrastructure - we both suck, they suck a little less since they've had that wonderful advantage of "draft position" for 99 years now (and counting - I'm going to do a Denny Green "CROWN 'EM!" rant if posters keep giving the season to the Scrubs).

Your '08 White Sox management: A bunch of jag bags

by winningugly on Aug 28, 2007 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I apologize for my sentence

structure. Horrible. Cub-like.

Your '08 White Sox management: A bunch of jag bags

by winningugly on Aug 28, 2007 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Has it been rectified?

They still aren't that good. And I didn't like most of their moves. If the Sox went out and signed guys like Lilly and Marquis to those contracts, I wouldn't be happy. And I don't see an OF as attractive as Soriano out there this year. Plus, the Sox probably can't afford to sign a guy to a contract like that.

The moves I'd like to see the Sox make (e.g. trading Konerko, Jenks, and/or Vazquez) are distinctly different in character from what the Cubs did in spending their way to mediocrity.

I guess my litmus test for Williams and the 2008 Sox is whether or not they make the less controversial moves. I'd like to see them not spend money on Pods, Cintron, and Myers. I'd like to not see Owens or Erstad get significant playing time. I'd like to see them not give Torii Hunter 15M to 18M per year....

by hitlesswonder on Aug 28, 2007 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm not really impressed with the moves

they made, either. they're awful and will only get worse for their organization. have people seen the soriano contract? yeah, $9 or 10 million this year - but he's got an 8/$136 million contract. the lily contract? yeah, $6 million this year - but he's got a 4/$40 million contract. do the math.

if people want the sox to mortgage the future for the potential of one year's success, well, okay. but what the cubs did this offseason was generally pretty silly. if this is the kind of "action" or rectification sox fans want from their team all i've got to say about the future is dear lord.

Jerry Owens: he's a g*ddamn lead off hitter

by larry on Aug 28, 2007 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

The Cubs payroll looks all right for the moment, but wait until all those backloaded contracts kick in. Ka-Boom! And for what, a team that's three games above .500 and might crawl into the postseason? I won't defend the Sox, but the Cubs, in a few years, will likely be in the same boat: bloated payroll stocked with aging, declining players.

by southsider80 on Aug 28, 2007 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The pre-season moves

smacked of desperation re: wins and keeping the fan base happy, and they did that. If it turns out they win the division, so much the better. Trib was selling the team and not worried about the future.

I can concur with Pete re: current talent assessment (with the exception of picking up Monroe - WTF?) or at the very least pruning dead wood (Wood?). There was a decent amount of pressure to se Pie perform, yet they put him back down when he showed he wasn't ready yet. Why the hell are we watching Cintron take bereavement leave and then return? OF has been discussed ad nauseum. Hell, last year even Widge/Politte, etc. were cut. And larry, you were mystified that Pods was not cut.

Maybe we have to burn the village to save it. I don't hink we need to use dollar bills as kindling, but I do think we need to torch a few buildings.

Your '08 White Sox management: A bunch of jag bags

by winningugly on Aug 28, 2007 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

With salary increases coming for

Z, Lilly, Marquis, Ramirez, and Soriano, they should be in the 110-115 million range. And that's without even adding anyone. God forbid they pick up Kendall's option and get a legit closer. And an outfielder to replace Jones. They could clear $120 million without improving much at all.

by southsider80 on Aug 28, 2007 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are ridiculous in their spending

but I applaud their willingness to fish or cut bait. Stupidly, perhaps, but with a little budgetary restraint they seem to have the right 'tude in jettisoning dead weight.

Your '08 White Sox management: A bunch of jag bags

by winningugly on Aug 28, 2007 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really don't see a lot of talent there

You're posting about an attitude difference, but it's easy to be honest when performance is divorced from attendance. And this is a team, let's remember, that's 3 games above .500 in the NL Central. The decrepit Cardinals are breathing down everyone's back there. I know you'd appreciate a different attitude, but the fact is that the Sox have a market to compete for and, subsequently, are going to respond with propaganda at nearly every turn.

It sucks, but it's true.

by colintj on Aug 28, 2007 3:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs