South Side Sox: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Spencer Hall's Sports Meme Power Rankings

Nick Swisher's 2008 White Sox ZiPS Projection

[Dan Szymborski @ BBTF]:

2008 ZiPS Projection - Nick Swisher
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              AB   R    H  2B 3B  HR RBI  BB  SO  SB    BA   OBP   SLG   OPS+  DR   
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Projection   518  96  141  31  1  31  90  86 137   2  .272  .384  .515   131    4
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opt. (15%)   556 116  157  37  1  38 124 101 140   4  .282  .399  .556   145    8  
Pes. (15%)   475  71  106  23  0  21  74  69 144   0  .223  .325  .404    88    1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Offensive Comps:  Pat Burrell, Jeff Burroughs

Swisher still doesn't make the White Sox a contender by the remotest stretch of the imagination, but at least they got a good player that will provide a boost to the team. The White Sox really need to start moving on their eventual goal of dumping Crede (wouldn't it have been nice for the team if they had done it after 2005 when Crede had by far the best year of is career and was showcased in the playoffs?) because they have their own leftfield situation to sort out. As I imply above, Swisher's not a centerfielder, but then again, Jerry Owens is not a major leaguer, so Swisher could very well end up there.

Swisher's 2008 A's ZiPS Projection: .263/.375/.483.
*****
In other news,

0 recs  |  Comment 93 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Mr. Szymborski is correct about Jerry Owens...
not being a major leaguer but Joe Crede's best season was 2006, not 2005.

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 1:51 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

His best season was
Sept-Oct, 2005, starting when he beat the Injuns with his walk-off. IMO.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i was at that game!
and spilled my stock piled beer on myself jumping around like a fool!
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 4, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He was pretty great...
from Sept. '05 to the end of August, '06.

It doesn't go against Dan's main thesis, which is that Crede's highest trade value was somewhere in that window.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 4, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hindsight
= 20/20 of course..

who trades crede at that point without an adequate backup? Definitely not a guy who's looking to keep his job. Everyone throws tank penetrating stones at kenny williams the second he presses the button on that trade. I guess you can say that the sox probably knew back then that he would have priced himself out (of what the sox were willing to afford) down the line since he's a boras client, but as far as the best window to trade him, that's hard to predict going forward especially since they did well in 2006. Obviously once fields rose to league, now you have a capable option to fill in.

I'd say alot of the 'little' things like trading for carl freakin everette 3 times, and offering arb to some of the guys leaving and not recieving extra draft picks for a farm system that truly needed it as a sign of the real problem.  I also think that you use a farm to get better at the major league level and that is it. Whether it's bringing them up (which hasn't worked well recently for various reasons) or trading them away to achieve desired major league talent. I could care less how many titles charlotte wins.. its the major leagues I care about. I am frustrated by the real disconnect between ozzie and kenny with relation to which players kenny makes available and how ozzie plays them. You definitely haven't seen the last of owens. Remember Mackoviak in center while B.A. was playing very well out there defensively? Remember those singles/doubles turned into doubles/triples? Remember when even though the sox had a very good offensively output that year, ozzie decided to religiously plug the likes of mackoviak and pods in left. Instead of putting BA in center and maybe mack in left where he's decent, ozzie just kept prolonging the oppositions rallies by spitting in that defensive black hole in center. That was probably a vital reason the sox lose out on the playoffs in 2006.

If the sox sign a decent 5th starter to compete and add some innings if the kids falter, someone like lieber on a 1 year deal/or trade for one of the cubs young pitchers like angel guzman (who may be blocked), I'd consider this a successful offseason. To most of you who thinks the sox have NO CHANCE AT ALL to be competitive in 2008 or in the near term, I'd have to respectfully disagree. Mark my words, the sox will be dangerous. Sure, the moves could definitely backfire, but they could also just dominate as well.

The dumb linebrink signing aside, that bullpen will be much better. Floyd pitches very well in 2008. He'll surprise many people. If danks lowers his homer totals given up and lower his walk total, he'll do more than adequate. He's always adjusted to his league. He needs to put guys away better and control his fastball/change up. Everybody seems to be all on Gio, but as some people point out, he's not as cut out as egbert would be playing half his games at the cell. I think someone like egbert will be a garland or even a buerhle-like presence in the rotation. Solid. I can't see contreras being any worse than last year. My prediction as of today: The sox contend most of the year for the division. They end up with the wildcard battling the indians. I think the indians take a step back. They're very good in 2008 but missing the playoffs. Color me optimistic :)

It's all about the SOX baby! www.firestarclothing.com

by Eternalkonflict on Jan 4, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was definitely pushing...
for a Crede trade at this time last year.  

IIRC, there were a few Crede trade rumors floating around after the '05 season, as a lot of teams were obviously interested at the time.  I don't remember how seriously any of them were taken.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 4, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC...
... there was talk of dumping Crede before the trading deadline in 05. Blalock was the potential replacement. Glad we didn't do that-- lending truth again to the adage- sometimes the best trades are the ones you don't make.

by ruffster on Jan 4, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know...
I think I'd much rather have Hank Blalock than Joe Crede right about now.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 4, 2008 6:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Um, not in '05 you wouldn't
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Look at that optimistic projection
Nice -- 145 OPS+.  I'd guess Swisher finishes somewhere between his his optimistic and mean projection -- he's at a good age and he's moving to a great hitters' park.  It'll also be kind of neat if he makes a push for 40 homers, which his optimistic projection has him doing (38 homers).

by CWSKeith on Jan 4, 2008 2:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow. He's really good.
But adding him means that we should definitely sign Cameron.  We could have a sweet outfield defense and OBP and compensate for oldness AND still pick up an extra draft pick or two when Cabrera leaves.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 2:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Keep Crede, hit him against
guys with big fastballs, play Fields against the others and DH Fields against lefties.  For the first 25 games, go Dye-Swish-Carlos, then Dye-Cameron-Swish, get Carlos ABs in AAA until Dye inevitably goes down.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that's what i'd do
unfortunately neither you or i is the sox manager. and he won't do that.

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you're probably right
you made the :) turn into :(
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

precisley
I think that's one of the biggest problems the sox have is the manager himself. I'm not an ozzie basher. I just think the GM and the manager are 2 separate pages on many fronts. With the way ozzie uses his players, outside of 2005 and early 2006, I cant say he's done alot to "win" the game for the sox with his decision making. On the other hand, he's done alot of questionable things to facilitate a sox loss. The players play, but the manager controls when the players play. The ross glad era, the B.A..mack debacle, etc.. I like his no-nonsense style and he;s a colorful guy, but I would love to see some uniform direction in the decision making on how the players should be used.  It's like the bears when they throw those silly laterals to hester on offense. Whoever keeps pressing the button that play should be fired.
It's all about the SOX baby! www.firestarclothing.com

by Eternalkonflict on Jan 4, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pshaw
Swisher is the Grind Master.  He will spark the hell out of some girl's plug.  
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

true
we still need jesse's speed though, somebody has to unclog the bases!
"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (via GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally we have a young
And exciting player worth talking about.  If only it didn't cost DSL and Gio and Sweeney.  I would have been very happy with a DLS/Gio and Sweeney for Swisher trade, but both seems a bit high of a price.

Still, this is the first move KW has made in the past two years that actually suggests he understands what makes a good major league outfielder.  

Too bad the Sox are too dumb to play Swisher in LF, BA in center and Dye in RF.  Instead I can envision Jerry Owens being the worst everyday LF in baseball and Swisher OPS+'ing 140 and taking away half those runs with his CF defense.

Still, I'm not as down on this move as most people, including Cheat.  After all the horrible moves even a decent one seems like something to talk about.

by madvillian on Jan 4, 2008 2:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Swisher in CF
Posted in the linked ZiPS projections
Here's what UZR 2003 to mid-2007 sez about Swisher:

Runs per 150 games
LF: +14 (97 games)
CF: -32 (14 games)
RF: +19 (102 games)
1B: -7 (103 games)

That's only through mid-season last year, so Swisher was terrible initially in CF...

Just today, however, Tango got ahold of the full data for UZR, and performed some positional adjustments in the OF.

UZR has Swisher as an excellent corner OFer... Let's assume that his true talent is as a +10 corner outfielder (his year to year defensive totals fluctuate around +10). Take tango's adjustment (-9) into consideration, perhaps even scale it up to (-12 -14) to account for more of an adjustment period, and Swisher comes out as a mildly below average CFer who makes up for it with a plus bat.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 4, 2008 2:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Even if that's the case...
(and Swisher looked worse than "mildly below-average" out there), the Sox need an above-average centerfielder if they really plan on putting Jermaine Dye in right.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 4, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure JRE
Which is why a small sample size of seeing someone play a position is next to useless, unless they are historically bad ala Mack. And as I stated previously the Fielding bible stats are deceiving on JD. UZR and PMR had him as about average. In composite he may have been a -10, but you have to think his quad contributed to that. Quentin is a plus defender. Overall that's probably a -10 outfield. Not great but certainly acceptable

by bhoov on Jan 4, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
14 games means next to nothing for a set of statisitics that are at there best when evaluated over multiple years. Good stuff by Tango as usual. Even if Swish is half a win below -2 (-7) he should be in CF until JD is gone. Looking at Runs created and saved Swish, JD, Quentin is far far superior to Swish, Owens, JD.

by bhoov on Jan 4, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

someone can help me on this maybe
perhaps you. wasn't quentin a CF coming through the d-backs system? was the reason he was moved because he was bad or something else? i recall reading something that he was fine in center but this was when he was in AA and that's obviously different than MLB.

i guess my bottom line question is, would a dye-quentin-swisher OF be a better one than a quentin-swisher-dye?

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if this answers your question
but the D'Back fans at BTF seem to think Quentin would be no more than 'serviceable' out in CF, and by 'serviceable' I mean no better than average and a guy you probably don't want in CF for the long-term -- not Rob Mackowiak bad but not a heckuva lot better, either.

by CWSKeith on Jan 4, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it sounds like serviceable is what swisher is, too
so probably no change. at any rate, the debate shoudl be whether swisher or quentin are in either right or center. dye should be moved to left. but what do i know.

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's a shame that this won't happen...
due to the 'ol veteran kiss-ass bullshit in baseball.

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah -- I was gonna say
that the difference between Swisher and Quentin in CF probably isn't much.  If we were to go to an 'ideal' OF, Dye would obviously be in LF.  I'd go with Quentin in RF just because most everyone has raved about his defense (no slight on Swisher who also gets great reviews and is backed up by a good UZR).

by CWSKeith on Jan 4, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I haven't found any reference
To Quentin ever playing CF while with the D-Backs.

On a totally irrelevant note.  Here's the link to Quentin's girlfriend's college bio.  Read it while searching his wiki page.

Jeane Goff Bio

by BoKnows on Jan 4, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

larry
i found this - "Although he's spent time in centerfield, he's a better fit as a corner outfielder, as he doesn't have the speed or range to play in centerfield." Not saying the guy's credible, but there's some small thing.  

Neither b-r or baseball cube have his actual outfield position played for the minors listed.  I swear I've found a site that does that, but I'm trying to remember what it was.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The CBL
doesn't think much of him
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 3:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe the fact that no one knows...
means that both Quentin and Swisher would be about equal defensively as everyday CF'ers?

As much as I hate seeing Gio go (Sweeney was an overrated prospect and we still haven't seen enough from DLS at higher levels), I am happy that Kenny was bright enough to realize that Jerry Owens is not a starting CF'er.

This is the only point in the entire offseason that I can finally buy into Bruce Levine's comment on Kenny possibly dealing Konerko.

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

UZR
Swisher had great UZR in the corners and terrible in CF (25 run difference).  This is fairly inconsistent with the typical player who plays the corners and center (10 run difference).  Furthermore, Swisher has average tools across the board, nothing that would explain such a gap.

Quentin was average in the corner.

Tools-wise, Quentin is slightly better than Swisher.  If you have to have both fielders out there, I'd put Quentin in CF and Swisher in one of the corners.  If I could, I'd flip-flop Swisher/Dye based on who's on the mound, or preferably, who is at bat!  It would be the ultimate platoon.

by tangotiger on Jan 4, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not that great with fielding stuff
could the difference for swisher be the ballpark (big outfield in oakland, right?)? or, perhaps the better question is, what do you think the gap can be attributed to?

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oakland's OF
is pretty average at 111,000 sq. ft.  The Cell clocks in at 105,000.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

pirates disappointed beane fleeced us first
[wuerz]:
the Pittsburgh press says the Pirates are discouraged by the Nick Swisher trade because the White Sox were their best potential partner for their highest-paid outfielder.
"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (credit to GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 2:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

correction
[wuerz]:
Jason Bay: the Pittsburgh press says the Pirates are discouraged by the Nick Swisher trade because the White Sox were their best potential partner for their highest-paid outfielder.
"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (credit to GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, that makes me feel better...
I'm much happier with a possible 5 years of Nick Swisher coming from the tough A.L. West than only two seasons of Jason Bay coming from the pathetic N.L. Central.  Plus, Swisher is two years younger than Bay and cheaper.

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Bay...
is two years older than Swisher and is coming off a terrible season.  Unless the Pirates were willing to give him away for free, as much as I don't like the Swisher trade, I think I would have liked a Bay trade even less.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 4, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Bay is better than how you portray him...
Give him away for free?  Guys with .281/.375/.515/.890 career lines don't grow on trees.

But this Swisher trade is much better than what a potential Bay trade would have been.

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, Thanks Pitt,
I agree with the two statements above.

Given everything involved, Swisher>>>Bay

by Tony82087 on Jan 4, 2008 3:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

juan!?
Luis Ayala took a shotgun pellet in his left (non-throwing) arm during a recent hunting trip, but he should be ready for spring training.
Ayala suffered a bruised nerve causing some numbness that's getting better by the day. Other than that, he has full use of the arm.
Source: Washington Post

are they sure he wasnt out with juan uribe?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 4, 2008 3:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Swisher on with Boers and Bernstein right now...
on WSCR 670.  He just called in.  Pretty cool.

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Swisher wants to talk to Thome and Konerko...
about putting up consistent numbers from year to year.  He said that his power was down last season but his walks were up because he wasn't getting that 2-0 fastball.  And then his cell phone cut off.

They just got Swisher back on the phone.

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also, Swisher is a bow-hunter...
and wants to go hunting with Buehrle and Thome.

And then his cell phone cut off again...

by SSH2005 on Jan 4, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like a future...
U.S. Cellular promotion.  Get Nick Swisher some reception!!
Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Jan 4, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Konerko consistent?
His OPS+ has swung 25+ points in 3 of the last 5 seasons.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 4, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know him, and you know you love him
Anyone find it curious that Sweeney was the throw-in on the deal instead of Anderson?  We can't even give him away.
"Swisher's versatility allows us to give Owens a chance to come back and show he's ready to be that sparkplug like Podsednik was a couple of years ago." - KW

by ChicagoPete on Jan 4, 2008 3:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Didn't you hear?
KW, on the conference call yesterday, insisted that he hadn't given up on Brian N. Anderson.
For a good time, check out http://www.myspace.com/niks0. She is so *nickalicious.*

by Toonderstrook on Jan 4, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure he hasn't.
But Guillen has, and he's made it quite clear that he won't play Anderson.  That's pretty much the end of that story.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 4, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just like Jerry's still our sparkplug
"Swisher's versatility allows us to give Owens a chance to come back and show he's ready to be that sparkplug like Podsednik was a couple of years ago." - KW

by ChicagoPete on Jan 4, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

BA: hurt and poor (CA) 'tude
Sweeney:  hurt.

Edge:  Sweeney

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But...
...B.A. could reprise his days of partying with McCarthy and become the new fun guy of the A's clubhouse.  The new lack of frat guys on the A's was bemoaned by at least two columnists out here today.
For a good time, check out http://www.myspace.com/niks0. She is so *nickalicious.*

by Toonderstrook on Jan 4, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess since Oakland will always
only be a whistlestop on the major league tour train for the majority of their players it might be a good idea to party while you can, Oakland-style (by that, I mean some Colt .45 and a drive-by)!

What is the average length of stay for an A's average/above-average player, anyway?  2-3 years?

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eric Chavez...
has been there nine years now.

They only have the money to have one or two star players at a time, so Beane has got to keep that roster a-churnin'.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 4, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Funny you say that.
In line at the grocery store on the 30th and the guy in front of me asks the cashier if he has big plans for New Year's Eve.  The cashier says, "I'll be asleep by 10:30, cuz this is Oakland and there are two things I'm allergic to: drunk drivers and bullets."
For a good time, check out http://www.myspace.com/niks0. She is so *nickalicious.*

by Toonderstrook on Jan 4, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And I'm sure your reaction was
"BWAHAHAHAHA! (Duck.)"

JRE, good example re: 'Ric (No "E", remember?).  I was asking for an average, really.  At least the Twinks keep 'em around longer when they grow 'em.  Oakland always seems to be in flux -exciting, competitive, but hard to get attached to because of the constantly moving parts.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think
the A's view sweeney as a throw-in. and, if he is, the better throw-in would be the one who is 23, not 26, next year.

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that's what I meant
I'm sure KW would have preferred to keep Sweeney instead, but he couldn't even pawn off BA as the afterthought, "C'mon, don't be a dick Billy, just take Anderson, please!"
"Swisher's versatility allows us to give Owens a chance to come back and show he's ready to be that sparkplug like Podsednik was a couple of years ago." - KW

by ChicagoPete on Jan 4, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe
i'm not as sure about that, though, as you are. i think the sox view them both as busts. they've acquired two young/long-term outfielders this offseason (maybe even throw in ramirez to that), which is not exactly a rousing endorsement of in-house candidates. i know i view them both as busts so perhaps that colors my perception.

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good assessment
I was beng glib (or trying to pass it off as such) but I think the age/attitude is the only real diff.  They both still have proved they could not handle their gift of starting OF in what most seem to regard as a horrific OF last year (or, in BA's case, '06).

More upside with a younger guy who hasn't burned a bridge already.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol
hahaha exactly that some funny shit

Anyone think B.A. gone somewhere? Anyone want him?
Damn, if he could just shorten that swing..
To bad mr. pull happy is his hitting instructor. I hope mr. walker isnt the common denominator of the collective offensive funk the sox were in last year.  
If so, it's an even dumber move for the GM to not find a better hitting instructor. I might have trouble picturing chris young having the same type of success he had last year with the sox.

It's all about the SOX baby! www.firestarclothing.com

by Eternalkonflict on Jan 4, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As a process-oreinted guy,
as I am walking out the door to go home I have to say, Goddamn, it's good to be talking baseball again with some knowledgable folks (and SoB, too)!

Thanks, men.

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 4:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Mother-F: *oriented*
Some things never change.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 4, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Angels Discussing Konerko?
[MLBTR]:
Just got a solid tip that the Angels and White Sox are discussing a possible Paul Konerko deal.  That's all I've got for the moment; no idea how serious these talks may be.

I do recall the Angels' making an offer to Konerko in the winter of 2005-06.  Konerko does have a limited no-trade clause to consider.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (credit to GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 7:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

kiss of death
we all know KW doesn't make trades that get out.

who knows. i've stopped trying to figure out what direction this team (or anaheim, for that matter) is going.

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

re: trying to figure out
that's what prompted my mini research bit on attendance.  i can't imagine that kenny is done after this, because it both empties the farm system AND ensures the team won't be in the playoffs.  the return wasn't big enough.

though the other thing i thought was that there's a pretty good chance that swisher is on the White Sox playoff team.  

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 11:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

More On Konerko Talks
[MLBTR]:
A few more tidbits. Some names being bandied about include Ervin Santana, Howie Kendrick, and Chone Figgins. Of course, all three would not be in the deal. The Sox also seek relief help.

kendrick would be a steal right?

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (credit to GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 8:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My guess...pure rumor-mongering
LAA get Konerko and Crede
Sox get Gary Matthews Jr. and Shields + money

Makes as much sense as anything else that's gone on this offseason. And there's no way LAA trade Kendrick, Santana, or Willits for anything the Sox can offer...

by hitlesswonder on Jan 4, 2008 9:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you're probably right
makes no sense. so that's exactly what KW will do.

by larry on Jan 4, 2008 9:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do think
That LAA have approached the Sox about GMJr. I have to think they would be happy to move him and they know the Sox need a CF. And I wouldn't be surprised  if Williams is interested in an LAA setup man. But I'm hoping that Linebrink is enough veteranness in bullpen for Kenny.

I was interested to see that GMJr's defense apparently sucked last season. He never impressed me as having a great glove, but lots of people insisted he was GG-quality when he was a free agent.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 4, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

rotoworld
[rotoworld]:
There's been talk about this possibility since before the Angels signed Torii Hunter. The Angels were believed to be the high bidder for Konerko when he was a free agent two years ago, but he opted to stay put. The only way a deal would make sense now is if it included Gary Matthews Jr., who might waive his no-trade clause in order to return to center field. The White Sox would likely also want a pitcher in return, probably Ervin Santana or Joe Saunders. Konerko is owed another $36 million entering his age-32 season and he wasn't as good as Casey Kotchman last season, so the Angels would be foolish to part with big-time talent for him. Jan. 4 - 10:06 pm et

maybe reagins has a kenny-like thing to get his guys eventually...

maybe

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (credit to GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 9:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me just say
That, in my opinion, acquiring even a discounted GMJr and Saunders or Shields would be a bad trade.

I was actually in favor of moving Konerko, but that was when I thought the Sox could pick up a AAAA 1B cheaply -- not trade Gio/DLS/Sweeney for one.

And GMJr's salary, even offset by a few million, is not how I want the Sox to use the money they suppposedly have allocated for CF.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 4, 2008 9:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

larry
since i'm sure that will draw a reply from you wiz

and i'm having trouble going through this page with all the posts, my point is not that it was good to trade them. i'm sure my stance on this is clear considering i've posted on this topic roughly a gazillion (or maybe it's bazillion, i always forget which is bigger). my point is that it doesn't necessarily follow that the sox will need to sign FA pitching in the future simply because of this trade. who knows what the roster (or DLS, for that matter, who some think is a reliever) will look like in a couple seasons when contracts and need for starters will really to arise. it may be that the sox will have nothing and need to do that. on the other hand, egbert, floyd, danks, MB and someone else (or whoever you want to throw in the 2010 or 2011 rotation) may all be performing fine. what this deal does do is prevent the sox from dealing from strength (or greater strength), something KW has done for a long time now. obviously, KW feels good about the options he has right now and for the foreseeable future. we shall see.

anyway, if you do wish to reply here, i'm not going to read this thread anymore so you may want to do it on the other thread.

of course your position is clear

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to compete with us for the next 10 years." -- Kenny Williams (credit to GhostOfRooney)

by The Wizard on Jan 4, 2008 9:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

it sounds like your
6 starters theory is more or less correct, though the exact number is determined by expected starts from the best pitchers.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 4, 2008 11:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll start listening to you when you make your
first post that doesn't like to your blog
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 5, 2008 12:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A blog
linking a blog, linking a blog.  

by RME JICO on Jan 5, 2008 7:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The first legit source of a Konerko trade rumor...
Doug Padilla of the Los Angeles Daily Breeze wrote:
ANAHEIM - Angels general manager Tony Reagins might be in position to complete an acquisition his mentor never could.

A source has indicated the Angels and Chicago White Sox are discussing a second trade of the offseason, with this one sending Paul Konerko to the Angels, while Howie Kendrick and Ervin Santana are possible candidates to head to Chicago.

Indications are, though, that the White Sox also have inquired about a package that includes Chone Figgins. The White Sox are also in the market for bullpen help after their relievers melted down most of last season.

The potential deal has apparently become the hot rumor among general managers, according to the source.

Asked if he has any interest in Konerko, Reagins said: "I definitely can't confirm or deny that."


It doesn't sound like the deal would be Konerko for all of Howie Kendrick, Ervin Santana, and Chone Figgins but if it was...  wow.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 9:15 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Funny that we were just discussing this trade...
yesterday.

I made up a trade scenario of Konerko, Crede, and Aardsma/Masset/Sisco to the Angels for Figgins, Santana, and Adenhart.

Maybe these writers just read these blogs and make stuff up?  Haha.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you guys are right...
I can't see a trade like this happening without us taking on Gary Matthews Jr.  He makes no sense for the Angels since they added Torii Hunter and he would fill a position for the Sox with Swisher moving to 1B in place of Konerko.  Of course, I really wouldn't want to add Sarge Jr.'s salary or declining numbers post-steroid bust.

by SSH2005 on Jan 5, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

only way
i take on GMJr is if theyre giving me figgins or kendrick with him.  not a chance i take on sarge and a bullpen arm for konerko.  GMJr's numbers are pretty bad from what i can remember.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 5, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Konerko for GMJr?
If we trade our good 1B for a bad OF who makes basically the same amount of money I would be pretty let down.  What is the point?  Just put Owens out there for free instead of GMJr.  

Figgins though, makes for some very interesting possibilities.  Add another switch hitter who gets on base and obviously steals a lot of bases.  Anyone know how good he is in CF ?

With Figgins in the line up we might actually not suck this year if he is a good CF. I know he switchs positions all the time, but is he just like an Ozuna not good at anything?  

by Grinder in Training on Jan 5, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

GMJr. would need to be a throw in
GMJr. has about the same trade value as Contreras or Crede (or maybe Thome).

So moving Konerko for (insert name of youngish upside major league position player or pitcher) and GMJr. could make sense (if the Angels eat a good part of his contract).

But GMJr. as the centerpiece... god no

Canada's finest

by MarkD on Jan 5, 2008 11:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

o man
konerko for kendrick and santana would be sweet.

by Jbasic89 on Jan 5, 2008 12:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Trust the White sox
While the team has had been criticized all over this blog, keep the following in mind:
Since the year 2000, the only teams with more regular season wins in the AL then the Whitesox are the Yankees, Angels, Boston, and Oakland.  The only team with more world series champions is Boston.
Some moves work out, some don't, obviously the main failure has been the farm system and they are doing the best they can to maintain a competitive team until that can, hopefully, be built up.

by bingodog on Jan 5, 2008 1:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

tough to build
if you keep tearing up the foundation.

by larry on Jan 5, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Chicago White Sox.
Start posting about the White Sox »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Beckhamwp-2_small
My Evening With Jake Peavy
Frank_thomas_small
Do The Right Thing
Georgia1_small
Beckham is not only good, but classy
Deadhorse_small
White Sox Minor League Update: I just want to say one word to you - just one word.... 'prospects'.
Stash1_small
Buerhle might wanna take a drive down Lake Shore Drive next slump

Recent FanPosts

Img_0161_small
This is probably old but whatevs, Twins get new uniforms
Small
Three way deal for Gonzalez?
Belle-thomas_small
Will we all be disappointed this offseason
Aroldis_chapman_small
A letter from a Cuban fan inside Cuba
Dead_horse_4_small
Why the nickname bacon sucks and why you should all stop using it.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

OPS hearts Dick Allen
Tim Lincecum Hearts WHIP, Tells Greinke To Pound FIP
ESPN - OTL: Field of Schemes?
Top Ten BR sponsorships
Zack Greinke hearts FIP
Beginning Wednesday, street light banners commemorating a series of special events in Chicago are going on the auction block for charity.

Some of the banners were shown off Tuesday, including those featuring Pres. Barack Obama both before and after his election.

A White Sox World Series Championship banner, signed by pitcher Mark Buehrle, is also being sold, as is a Blackhawks playoff banner signed by Denis Savard and Stan Mikita.

The bidding starts at 12 p.m. Wednesday at Daley Center. Money raised goes to help the Chicago Anti-hunger Federation and the Greater Chicago Food Depository.
John Danks is a MLB scout
Yankees' key to financial success
Buehrle wins Gold Glove
Dotel & Dye are Type A Free Agents

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

SPONSORS

South Side Sox on Facebook

Managing Editor

Thecheatsmoking_small The Cheat

Editors

Deadhorse_small larry

Sealab_murphy_small colintj

Scenemissingsss_small thecip

Dog_small homesickalien

Omar_small U-God

Authors

Headerrock_bigger_small shaftr

17258_0003_small The Actual El Guapo