Optimal Outfield Alignment
Larry pointed out a poll with some fairly dubious results over at ChicagoSports.com, but I thought the topic was a good one.
Given the players currently on the White Sox roster (and Alexei Ramirez), what would your optimal outfield alignment be?
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With the guys currently on the roster...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 3:41 PM CST reply actions
Well
LF - Dye, CF - Swisher, RF - Quentin
I would think. If Dye has to remain in RF, flip him and Quentin.
hmmm
CF: swisher
RF: quentin
platoon: i wouldn't allow thome to face lefties so DH duties would allow dye to be moved from the outfield. put fields out there on such days. considering the splits for quentin (in a small sample) look pretty bad, i may have to say a platoon with quentin instead and then get creative. the crede/fields situation sort of fucks things up overall
4th: fields (sort of)
5th: BA
JD, the concrete shoes on our feet, in right alignment: quentin, swisher, dye
Sort of
CF swisher
RF Quentin
platoon - Dye is DH against lefties with Ramirez & Owens taking over CF and Swisher moves to LF.
4th Owens
5th Ramirez
IF Owens or Ramirez struggle in spring training then you keep BA up as the 4th outfielder.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 7, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
gotta do something with him
Ah.
I imagine that, if both Crede and Fields are somehow on the 40-man come Opening Day, Fields will be in the minors.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
Okay.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Crede will be traded to some team...
Same for Quentin
ehhh?
that I answered
I see I neglected to answer the sub-question
so, here it goes
# Who would play LF? JD
# RF? Quentin
# CF? BA (Cameron if acquired)
# Would you platoon players? no
# Who is your 4th outfielder? alexei
# 5th? owens
# And since we know JD isn't moving from RF, what's the best alignment with him in RF?
Flip my LF and RF answers
-
is that more satisfactory sir?
Yes, I'm curious...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
I get it now.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
Here goes
- LF: Dye
- RF: Quentin
- CF: Swisher
- Any platoons? Nope.
- Fourth outfielder? Since you are asking for our perspective, this question depends on whether I see Alexei Ramirez as anything more (in the near future) than a bench player. Right now I'd say he looks like a 'spark off the bench' player, so he's my fourth outfielder.
- Fifth outfielder? Owens, I suppose, in the sense that if I needed another guy off the bench I'd go with Owens. If, say, Dye went down for an extended period of time, however, I'd probably rather have Anderson up here to play CF while moving Swisher to LF.
- The best alignment with Dye in RF should probably involve a trade or a free agent signing for a guy who we know can go get the ball in CF -- say Cameron or Figgins. But since you asked for guys currently on the team, I suppose it's Swisher in CF and Quentin in LF, although I don't think there'd be a huge difference if you flipped Swisher and Quentin.
I THINK
No, no.
Plus,
Chone
Range Factor for Chone: 2.73
Swisher: 2.66
Zone Rating for Chone: .867
Swisher: .839
For a comparison:
League Leader (Coco Crisp): 3.07 RF
League Leader (Sizemore): .916
Chone has a much larger sample size. 1918 innings compared to 484 for Swisher. So, Swish's stats could still sway either way.
i wasn't talking about ego either
Some many choices....
RF - Dye, CF - Swisher, LF - Quentin
--No platoons--
4th OF - Ramirez
5th OF - BA. He could be used as a late inning sub for any of those three guys.
Ideal w/ current:
LF-Dye, CF-Swisher, RF-Quentin
Ideal w/ trade or signing:
LF - Dye, CF - Figgins, RF - Q
--no platoons--
Swisher moves to 1B
Ozuna
re
participation of sox players is pretty limited nowdays
bourgeois' last game was on december 16 too
After reading that
According to gameday, both touched 95+ a few of times during the game.
Answering my own question
CF: Quentin/Owens/Anderson
RF: Swisher
There wouldn't be a strict platoon in the OF, but I think I would try to limit Thome's exposure to lefties, and have him as a dangerous PH late against opposing "closers." To accomplish this, Dye would DH against LHP or Konerko would DH with Swisher at 1B and the rest of the backups shifting accordingly. The backups still don't project to hit as well as Thome against LHP, so I think I'd probably limit this approach to games in which my lower-strikeout pitchers are on the mound.
I see Quentin and Swisher as pretty much the same player defensively in CF, but I'm giving a nod to Quentin because he projects to play less. I know Anderson can pick it in CF and Owens showed above average range.
Right now, Anderson would be my 5th outfielder/defensive replacement. I'd allow him the opportunity to earn more playing time, but pretty much guarantee him a spot on the bench given our current projected defense.
In the real world...
Heck, I'd dump Ozuna and get a real infielder.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
I
Question: are all of you taking into consideration that leftfielders probably have more chances than rf'ers? that the adjustment to lf entails a whole new set of angles that someone like Dye hasn't seen before? that routes are now different because of the new angles?
Perhaps.
Total chances
Total Chances (MLB Average)
LF RF
2007 335 349
2006 327 351
2005 328 345
2004 318 352
2003 332 343
2002 331 341
2001 330 343
Nope....
JD was a triples fairy in RF. Since far fewer triples occur in LF, JD goes there, cutting down on extra base hits. And as an added bonus his plus arm in LF will help with the increased number of balls finding their way through the SS-3B hole (thanks Josh), giving us a fighting chance at gunning down more than one runner at the plate this season.
Wow.
Total chances isn't a good measure
LF and RF see (approximately) the same number of balls, but RFers turn (slightly) more of them into outs...
prefer not to have swisher in cf
CF: Andersen
RF: Dye
bench: owens and Q let the Cuban spend some time in the minors...Before the Sox picked up Richar I always wonders if Pablo could play 2B full time or if he'd wear out.
agree about the Swish in CF
I like BA in center
LF - Dye, CF - Swisher, RF - Quentin.
No Platoon
4th outfielder - Owens
5th - Alexei Ramirez
If Dye in RF, CF - Swisher, LF - Quentin
swisher's arm kinda stinks
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/best-outfield-arms-of-2007/
I don't know where to put this
"For all positions except second base, the mean OPS+ (the average performance) is higher than the median OPS+ (the performance of the average)"
I'm pretty sure this means that it's difficult to gain a distinct advantage over other teams at second base and that second basemen are fungible and relatively easy to find. Which is exactly what I was saying when I questioned the value of trading for Kendrick.
No
That is completely unrelated to the difficulty of finding a league average 2B. And it is certainly unrelated to the value of a cheap, 23 y.o. 2B that dominated the minors and posted a 109 OPS+ in his first full season.
I already called into question
Even with
LD%: we already discussed. Although the only milb LD% I saw was at first inning, and it was fine. Are you getting milb LD% from somewhere else? Personally, I'll take his MLB and milb results over his LD%. There are 2 ball in play systems out there. I'll assume that's why First Inning has him with a perfectly fine LD%.
Given the discrepancy, I agree it should be investigated thoroughly. I think KW should assign a scout to look at all 109 of Kendrick's hits and decide what he thinks prior to trading for him.
Even if Kendrick doesn't improve and stays a 109 OPS+ 2B, a 23 y.o., cheap 2b with a 109 OPS+, average fielding and good baserunning is much more valuable than a 117 OPS+, below average fielding, slow, 32 y.o. 1B. Even though Paulie put up a 116 OPS+, I actually expect him to do better than that this year. However, over the next 5 years (the time that Kendrick is controlled), he'll probably come in right around that number. And the kicker is Konerko makes 12 million a year. Kendrick makes 330K and will probably make 12 million TOTAL over the next 5 years.
So I'm not saying Kendrick is perfect, just that he's a lot more valuable than Konerko. And I like Konerko more than most.
Just not enough to want to see him
I would be crestfallen if Paulie was traded, since I (perhaps mistakenly) believe his influence/maturity would be difficult to replace.
Don't forget.
Yeah, 'cause...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 8, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
cmon
I don't think I'd quibble with
Also: I have his LD% from minorleaguesplits.com. The thing about high average hitters is that their LD% shouldn't be "fine" it should be great. That's what maintains the high average (unless you're fast, which Kendrick is not). Roughly speaking, your BABIP is .120 + LD% and will tend to regress toward that mark from the stuff I've seen (THT? Can't remember). I emailed Dan Fox about it and got one reply, but I'm waiting.
Understand your concern
I've noticed that in general LD% is sig. less at the minor league level as compared to MLB. You wouldn't neccesarily expect that to be the case, because even though the quality of hitter is better, so is the quality of pitcher. In any event I think the way to do it is to compare to league average.
But I do believe, colintj that we'll have to agree to disagree on Howie. I think your position is perfectly defensible, I just don't agree with it. We'll see. Trade or no trade let's keep an eye on Howie in the future to see who is right.
Hmmm
I got the 13% for the PCL from minorleaguesplits.com (just did the division myself). That was for the same year that a similar calculation yielded 18.6 for Kendrick.
That sounds really low doesn't it?
Answers...
RF? Carlos Quentin
CF? Nick Swisher
Would you platoon players? No.
Who is your 4th outfielder? Brian Anderson.
5th? Jerry Owens
And since we know JD isn't moving from RF, what's the best alignment with him in RF? Carlos Quentin in LF, Nick Swisher in CF, and Jermaine Dye in RF.
The reason I like Cameron
ah, the golden rule
what rule did I break now?
did I screw up again?
:p
cheat's question
now that I thought it more
if so, I choose to trade PK!
not sure that's what cheat meant
outfield
CF - Swisher
RF - Dye
i concede that Dye will not be moved to LF.
4th OF - Owens (use in LF only to occasionally spell whoever the regular is)
5th OF - Anderson
by Larson on Jan 7, 2008 5:21 PM CST reply actions
Following the rules that Larry laid down...
SP - Mark Buehrle
SP - Javier Vazquez
SP - Jose Contreras
SP - John Danks
SP - Gavin Floyd
RP - Mike MacDougal
RP - Ehren Wasserman
RP - Boone Logan
RP - Scott Linebrink
RP - Matt Thornton
RP - Bobby Jenks
C - AJ Pierzynski
1B - Paul Konerko
2B - Danny Richar
3B - Joe Crede
SS - Danny Richar
LF - Jermaine Dye
CF - Brian Anderson
RF - Nick Swisher
DH - Jim Thome
C - Toby Hall
IF - Juan Uribe
IF/OF - Pablo Ozuna
OF - Jerry Owens
OF - Carlos Quentin
I'd rather see Fields than Crede, but if I can't get rid of Crede, that's my only other option.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:27 PM CST reply actions
Speaking of which...
I think they have to make decisions on both MacDougall and Aardsma this spring. Wassermann might be the odd man out if the Sox want to keep both.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, and...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
It's a bit fruitless
The once muddled outfield situation, seems much clearer now, with more than a few in-house options. So I thought I'd pose that question.
I don't really view Joe Crede as a member of this team even though he's on the current roster. Uribe is a bit different, as I could see him sticking around as a backup in the IF...
And I wouldn't even want to start projecting the bullpen...
There'll definitely be some turnover...
The more I think about it, the more I think that the Sox move Konerko. The question is what they can get for him.
As for the bullpen, I see three guys that will definitely be there - Jenks, Thornton, and Linebrink, with two more probables - MacDougal and Logan. Guillen will want seven relievers, so it's probably between Wassermann, Aardsma, and Masset and whatever dark horse emerges this spring to battle it out for the last two spots.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 7, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
i thought konerko was gone
The Kenny Williams paradox...
Recently acquired geezers:
Orlando Cabrera
Scott Linebrink
Recently acquired youngin's:
Danny Richar
Carlos Quentin
Alexei Ramirez (if you believe his reported age)
Nick Swisher
Fields will be at 3B and apparently Danks and Floyd will be in the rotation. It almost seems like Kenny is trying to build for the short-term and long-term, by giving up strictly long-term talent. It's a weird re-building process that Kenny is trying.
he's doing his damndest
good point..
It's funny.
We all want the old vets to go, thome, dye (or at least some people didnt want him to be re-signed), , konerko, aj (although Im not sure who else you would put at catcher).
But what if you (kenny) didn't get the return you wanted and what was proposed by other GMs simply wasn't good enough for the short-term and deemed too risky for the long-term?? Obviously under the right circumstances (or xbox / dealing with an idiot/ed wade/etc cough), you try and rebuild as quickly as you can so you can become competitive again.
Seeing as how the sox are pretty horrible recently at developing their own talent with an already thin farm system, this may be the best way for him to rebuild in 'reality'. If this fails.. cabrera walks (sox get an extra draft pick).. Lets say 2 years go by and swisher plays well, sustains his number or improves, he's still locked up cheap and would be in his prime years going forward. I'm sure they could get a good return as well.
No way, no how: no way they go backwards in whatever fanfare they've been able to gain due to winning a ring in '05. Trading someone like Konerko obviously would hurt them now, but would help them going forward if they could effectively turn the savings into being more aggressive in the draft and paying overslot for younger talent plus the trade return.
People saying the sox should just rebuild and hold off until 2010 to make their run: I can't say I agree with you. The royals have been rebuilding for decades. Who's to say the indians and tigers don't continue to turn over their rosters to remain competitive year after year as well? The sox just need to trade off assets and acquire prospects and then flip them in the manner in which they got swisher, garcia, vasquez, thome, et all. Unless you have a can't miss guy like loney on the dodgers or delmon young on the twins.. i'd say the odds are with what the sox are doing.
wow, I got alot for 2 cents..
by Eternalkonflict on Jan 7, 2008 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
This is why I re-thought the Swisher trade...
According to Sickels, we gave up two B+ prospects (Gio and DLS) and one C+ prospect (Sweeney). Swisher is pretty much locked up for 5 seasons (including his fifth year team option). If Swisher comes to the Cell and produces a couple 35-40 HR, 100+ RBI seasons with an OBP nearing .400, what could Kenny get for the remaining 3-year, $26 million dollar contract of a 29 year old outfielder? In 2010, a 3-year, $26 million dollar contract to an .850+ OPS player is going to look very desirable to many teams. My guess is that Kenny could get back a better quality package than Gio, DLS, and Sweeney when/if the time comes.
Bullpen
That leaves a 4 man bench of Hall, Ozuna, Owens, and Uribe/AAAA SS.
by hitlesswonder on Jan 7, 2008 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
Great.
by defensive indifference on Jan 8, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
i guess you haven't seen richar's range
Well...
LF: Swisher
CF: Platoon between BA and Owens (BA gets lefties and all starts by Danks and maybe Floyd)
RF: Dye
4th OF: BA/JO
5th OF: None, Ozuna if that is unacceptable
Quentin starts the season at AAA and waits for Dye, Konerko or Thome to get hurt or traded (Swisher would move to 1B, and yes, I know that those three all effectively have no trade clauses).
Put simply, with flyball-tastic pitchers like Danks and Floyd, I value BA's defense more than Quentin's stick. And I don't want Quentin sitting on the bench 50% of the time.
ugh, this is tough
LF: Dye
CF: Quentin
RF: Swisher
I have Anderson as my 4th OFer and late game defensive replacement. Its tough putting Quentin in CF since I don't know if he has ever played that position. I know Swisher can play center, but I'd rather have him save his energy/health in Right.
fire joe morgan
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/01/best-system-ever.html
oh, and rags rogers.
I firmly believe Rock ain't
Give him a couple years.
Cheat, Molly didn't even make the
http://contractbud.com/article.php?article=apc_allcoke&source=archive
raines
by Eternalkonflict on Jan 7, 2008 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
They base part of their analysis
I think we can all agree that DLS is a lot more valuable (and a much better prospect) than just some guy who is "doing well in rookie ball."
they must have fixed that
I am still in shock from that Rogers article
Sabermetrics.
easily
by Eternalkonflict on Jan 7, 2008 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
Just to be diff:
CF: Q/Ramirez
RF: Swisher(Rowand II)
Ramirez, at age 26, from Cuba, battle-tested, Hispanic, will play this year. He slides into home with elan. If A-Gone and Terstado got significant AB's bank on AR getting some.
And BA is toast. Let. It. Go.
i had to read your post twice...
by Toonderstrook on Jan 7, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions
Goddamn government workers...
Clemens controls his anger....
Oh yeah, he did.
by MarkD on Jan 7, 2008 7:19 PM CST reply actions
looking through the results
and
outfielders
* Who would play LF? Dye (could be like a soriano out there in left and take advantage of his strong arm)
* RF? Swisher (i guess a bit weaker arm but as people here point out, swisher would no doubt give up less extra base hits)
* CF? Quentin (because -hopefully after an extended time, he's athletic enough to improve and I thought i saw somewhere that he had a pretty good arm. I would hope he would at least have average range. if quentin doesnt hit then its easy.. go fetch B.A.)
* Would you platoon players? Probably not on a regular basis as there doesnt seem to be ideal platoon partners.. maybe have swisher DH/1b and go with a better defense when Thome faces tough lefties or spelling konerko. Play B.A. in center or owens in center. defensive replacements late in games more.
* Who is your 4th outfielder? Owens. (speed is needed, range is needed. Hell maybe we can have the relief pitcher effect and get a couple more 'blocks per hour' on his noodle arm)
* 5th? B.A.
Alexi makes the team instead of ozuna backing up 2nd/ss and all outfield spots as well along with uribe.
by Eternalkonflict on Jan 7, 2008 10:15 PM CST reply actions
Bedard to the Mariners?
weird
outfield
Maybe i'm alone, but keep Dye in right. He's not the problem. Had third best fielding percentage in the league and made some huge, run-saving catches.
by bring back wimpy on Jan 8, 2008 9:00 AM CST reply actions
Fielding Percentage
exactly
BP analysis of swisher trade
To be blunt, this was the perfect move for Kenny Williams to pull off as a matter of taking his club's near-term chances seriously. It doesn't rate with Dave Dombrowski's achievements in this winter's Hot Stove League, but it's up there. Swisher's the sort of young veteran that the Sox can contend with now and several years into the future, he gives a heavily right-handed lineup some extra lefty sock (against right-handed pitching, of course), and he's a pull hitter from both sides of the plate coming to a park that has two friendly corners for him to take aim at.
The important thing to remember is that this isn't a player Kenny Williams has to worry about re-signing. The deal really only gets better when you get into the financials and consider his age. Swisher is entering his age-27 season, and he's signed through at least 2011--or the next four seasons--for a little more than $25.5 million, and just under $35 million if they pick up his 2012 option, which would be his age-31 season. Sneaking a peak at Nate's 2008 PECOTA cards and the MORP calculations, Swisher's productivity should be in the .300 range in EqA through 2012, with OBPs around .370 and slugging over .490 all the way through; that's good for about $58 million in value. Remember, no arbitration, no negotiation, and making that call right now, here in January, you're talking about acquiring a key piece for a contending lineup at a price any team that takes the 'c'-word seriously should be able to afford for five years. And because of the great likelihood that Swisher will deliver that value through the next five seasons, this is not at all like retaining Jermaine Dye or trading for Jim Thome--it's about trying to put a solid club on the field for those five years.
Indulge me as I make an unfair comparison. The Royals just spent $36 million for three years on an older, worse player--Jose Guillen--essentially just to get themselves taken seriously when they're ready to get all grown up in a few years. That's not an apples to apples comparison, of course--last spring, Swisher effectively traded two years of free agency for right-now financial security. Where this is an apples to apples comparison is that after losing out on the free agent market, Kenny Williams wound up doing something better than buying a top-shelf free agent--he acquired a player who will deliver better than most of this winter's premium free agents for a fraction of the cost.
In terms of what this does to the club's roster shape, somebody politely said that this creates a competition between Carlos Quentin and Jerry Owens for outfield playing time, with Swisher playing either center or left. On a purely offensive level, it's a no-brainer; Owens is just the latest product from the fifth-outfielder assembly line that makes you wonder why it was built. Unfortunately, there are those pesky real-world defensive considerations, and Swisher's not exactly a quality center fielder. Obviously, a solution that involves three at-bats for Quentin per start and late-game switches that put Owens in the game wouldn't be all that novel; heck, Ozzie Guillen could even make a point of pinch-running for Konerko with Owens if he reaches base in his fourth at-bat, game situation permitting, and optimizing his defense's alignment from there. However, the interesting mix of limitations and virtues that Swisher brings to the mix in picking an alignment lends some credence to the subsequent rumors about a potential deal with the Angels, where Paul Konerko might get sent to Anaheim while the Sox would potentially get Chone Figgins (and something else, of course). This would put Swisher at first, Figgins in center, and address in a pretty proactive manner any concerns about Konerko's near-term decline.
Of course, there's still the problem of who's going to pitch for this team, but maybe the Sox have another masterstroke up their sleeves. Unfortunately, they don't have a whole lot else to deal, having already traded three of their four best prospects. The rules prohibit their dealing the fourth until next summer, and there's not much else left of value that any other team would want. So they are left with the challenge of re-purposing one of their key components, like Konerko, in a deal to strike a better balance between offense and defense. Because right now, as fun as that offense should be, the Sox are still short of being contenders, essentially because of a pitching staff that has three guys they can count on and a couple of dozen question marks.
Finally, on a more personal level, I'm excited, in that Swisher's a lot of fun to watch hit, and now that I'm in Chicago, seeing him play in person as opposed to on the screen that much more often will be that much better, certainly. But as I say below, I'm also a wee bit disappointed on the level of my being an A's fan: seeing Swish play here will be a bittersweet thing.
and from the A's perspective
So, De Los Santos has explosive velocity and a power curve, and he'll have to see what he can do against the Cal League and if he can master a changeup. That's the best of the lot. Then there's Gio Gonzalez; he'll be up sooner, certainly, but is he any more promising than, say, Dan Meyer was? I say that as someone who really, really likes Gonzalez, but again, we're talking about a guy who could make it up this year, and who might be a solid rotation starter. Admittedly, that costs more to find and keep in the face of the pressure of the open market than the A's would have paid Swisher, so that could turn out well. The problem is the 'could' and 'might' parts.
Finally, there's Sweeney, who's seen as something more than a throw-in. I'm not unsympathetic to that opinion: Sweeney will only be 23 this season and already has considerable upper-level experience, can play all three outfield positions, and did hit International League right-handed pitching at a .285/.358/.458 clip. Maybe if you decide to be optimistic, that's a guy who turns into the new Todd Hollandsworth, minus the dopey BBWAA vote; a solid fourth outfielder with power who you can plug in every day for a couple of weeks at a stretch, or carry as a regular if you're getting a ton of runs from your infielders. Call me skeptical, but I don't really care for the likelihood of those possibilities, although I can understand how somebody could see them and get interested, especially when you're looking for that extra body to flesh out a deal. It doesn't balance it out, though.
Now, I admit, there's a chance here that Sweeney just needs some extra instruction, and will get massively better if he works with somebody who helps him improve pitch identification. I doubt it, but let's move on. Maybe four years from now, Gonzalez and De Los Santos will be two-fifths of a very good rotation. It could happen, sure. You believe all that, balanced against the much greater certainty that Swisher's going to be an underpaid key to his team's bid for contention for years to come, and think it equals out? Me neither.
Thanks for posting these...
I can definitely see what's not to like about this trade from an A's fan's perspective.
I guess it's like the old saw - if fans from both teams are pissed off, that means it was a pretty decent trade for both sides. Either that, or a pretty horrible one.
I guess it'll be interesting to find out.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 8, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
we have poor students and pensioners
Certainy appreciate you
I resemble that remark
Larry
by Soulja Boy on Jan 9, 2008 8:18 AM CST up reply actions
1 Problem
But, from a White Sox standpoint - they do not know how to develop talent and thus makes this a good trade.
I could see DLS, Gonzalez and Sweeney getting the instruction in the A's system that they will not get with the Sox.
Maybe Kenny realizes that it is in his best interests right now to go after young major league ready talent and not minor league prospects.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 8, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Christina Kahrl...
She pretty much says exactly what the optimists around here are saying - that Swisher is a legitimate ballplayer with a lot of trade value, and Ken Williams did make the team better, at least in the short run, with this trade.
I also agree that pitching and defense is now the key. I know that some Sox fans wouldn't mind seeing the softball lineup they currently have, but if the goal is to win in the 2008-2010 window (which seems to be what Williams is doing), they have to get better at preventing runs.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 8, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
my problem with the trade
Yup.
I don't think he's necessarily ignoring the future, but he's not really willing to sacrifice the present for the future, either. He's basically trying to replace parts on the fly. I think he's focused on what he would call the "three-year board".
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 8, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Cabrera and Linebrink
Sox should have traded Garland to the Mets for Milledge (if the Mets would have done this?).
You plug Ramirez and Uribe at SS, your OF is set with Quintin in LF and Milledge in CF. You still make the trade for Swisher and move him to 1B. You trade Konerko for a young back of the rotation starter and young SS. In spring training you package Crede and Sweeney for a reliever.
CF Milledge
1b Swisher
DH Thome
RF Dye
C AJ
3B Fields
LF Quintin
2B Richar
SS Ramirez/Uribe
Team is not that much worse than what we have now, plus you keep Gio and DLS to compete for the rotation in 2009.
You also get a SS for 2009 from the Konerko trade and another starter. After 2008 you free up some money from Thome and Uribe and the trade of Garland and Konerko for a FA RF'er and starter.
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 8, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Teams
Also...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 8, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
agreed
at least KW
what about...
by Toonderstrook on Jan 8, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
well
Well you can't blame an
Haven't heard the nmae Omar Moreno in a long time. lol.
Ugh.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 8, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
What did we give up
Good point
So, I guess my scenario isn't as good as I once thought! Too much coffee...
But I still would have liked to see Milledge on this team instead of Cabrera...for some reason Omar had a brain fart and got Schneider and Church instead of a starter.
Mets bats and LoDuca didn't let them down last year - pitching did. Now they may trade away the rest of the farm for Santana....
by BobbySouthSide on Jan 8, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
if i were the mets
i agree
by Eternalkonflict on Jan 9, 2008 1:42 AM CST up reply actions
Greetings, fellow White Sox writer!
We have Nick Swisher, who can play both infield and outfield, so I'd put him in left. Swishy played left field a good amount of time while he was with the A's.
As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't hate seeing Quentin platoon with Swishy in left and Owens and Ramirez in center. When Swisher's playing first for a resting Konerko (if the deal goes through, otherwise I see Swishy as our full time first baseman) Quentin could be in left field.
Then, Dye would be staying in right running around with his tired old legs, hustling to make spectacular catches and then rocketing the ball to home and getting the runner out by a hair.
by ChiSoxBoy on Jan 8, 2008 10:11 AM CST reply actions
Question on Quentin
HOF results...
Rice fell just short (72%).
I'm curious as to what Mark McGwire's numbers look like.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 8, 2008 1:10 PM CST reply actions
I think suggesting a lineup at this juncture...
But I will play the game nonetheless.
I think if Dye won't move from RF, then I would propose:
CF - Quentin and Anderson (platoon)
LF - Swisher
RF - Dye
I would consider a platoon depending on how they perform in ST.
Obviously this means that Fields is at 3B and Crede is dealt. If Crede stays, then I suppose it's Fields in LF, Swisher in CF, Dye in RF giving us one of the worst defensive outfields maybe ever.
I like Larry's idea of having Dye DH against lefties and moving Fields to the OF mix.
I think it's also tough to determine outfield spots now since we haven't seen Quentin or Swisher roaming CF in the Cell.
I think ideally I would have Dye in LF, Swisher in CF, Quentin in LF. If Swisher can't handle CF, switch him with Quentin. Fields playing 3B with Crede dealt, and one of Anderson/Owens dealt for a reliever.
You say "pointless" and
just to clarify what i meant when i wrote
good points
by Shoeless In SC on Jan 9, 2008 12:09 AM CST up reply actions

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