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Around SBN: New York Giants Super Bowl XLVI Ring Unveiled

ZiPS: SSS Sanctioned off-season plan vs. reality

  • Swisher vs. Burrell -- .272/.384/.515 in USCF vs. .249/.377/.479 in CBBP
  • Quentin vs. Cameron -- .249/.342/.428 in USCF vs. .249/.334/.424 in Petco
  • Cabrera vs. Furcal -- .276/.330/.372 in USCF vs. .276/.346/.387 in Dodger Stadium
  • Linebrink vs. Wood -- 69 IP, 4.70 ERA, 49/23 K/BB ratio vs. 29 IP, 3.72 ERA, 33/14 K/BB ratio

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hmmm
i like kenny williams plan better

by Jbasic89 on Jan 9, 2008 5:07 PM CST reply actions  

Kenny's plan
also subtracts a 2008 second rounder, 2 top 50 picks in 2009, the Sox top 2 pitching prospects and their top remaining position prospect.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 9, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln
How did you like the play?

I'm fine with Swisher though, almost bordering on genius when factoring in the contract.  I only wish he wasn't penciled into CF.
But... Kenny GM isn't done yet.  I still say Crede and something will go to Milwaukee for Hall.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jan 9, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions  

haha
ROTFL, good'n Chiburb.

Sorry about wandering OT, but final season of "The Wire" is back on.  Life is good bitches,  this show is better than the Sopranos:

Proposition Joe: I heard your end would be covering my fee.
Stringer Bell: Your fee?
Proposition Joe: Yeah, I'm like a marriage counselor. Tell the man he oughta bring the bitch some flowers every once in a while. Tell the bitch she gotta suck some cock every once in a while. That sort of shit.
[Omar arrives]
Proposition Joe: Speaking of cocksuckers...
[to Omar]
Proposition Joe: I'm Proposition Joe. You fuck with me, I'll kill your whole family.

"Swisher's versatility allows us to give Owens a chance to come back and show he's ready to be that sparkplug like Podsednik was a couple of years ago." - KW

by ChicagoPete on Jan 9, 2008 8:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I miss Stringer
He was businessman. I really think a book like "Management Lessons from The Wire" would sell.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 9, 2008 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

This isn't the Cardinals site,
is it?  vivalosbirds' guy would've stroked out at your vignette, Pete.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 10, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Why would he stroke out?
The language? It could have been worse, Pete could have posted the transcript from season 1 in which Bunk and McNulty investigate a murder scene; it's 5 minutes of profanity and nothing else. A true tour de force.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 10, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

as State Senator Clay Davis would say,
Sheeeeeeeeeit
"Swisher's versatility allows us to give Owens a chance to come back and show he's ready to be that sparkplug like Podsednik was a couple of years ago." - KW

by ChicagoPete on Jan 10, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

How were the Sox...
going to get Furcal and Burrell?  They weren't free agents this winter, I don't think.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 9, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

and
they werent going to get them without surrendering some prospects.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 9, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a bit of problem
as I was assuming they could have been had... I was using Garland/Contreras for Furcal and Crede (who at the time seemed to have some trade value) plus maybe some non-DLS/Gio/Carter prospects to land Burrell.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 9, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

It's always hard to know
What deals were/are actually available. Despite that, I think your point that Williams could have built a 2008 team that is just as good as the current Sox without mortgaging the future is well-taken. In a resource-starved franchise, he has been extremely profligate with the Sox minor leaguers. It was a very inefficient way to arrive at the same 2008 outcome that SSS plan would have given him.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 9, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Suck-up
:-)
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jan 9, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

The intention of the post was to show
that in my proposed "rebuilding" plan we ended up with 4 players who were projected quite similarly to the players we have acquired in kenny's "Win now" plan.
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 9, 2008 5:48 PM CST reply actions  

Except...
Kenny's contracts -- save Linebrink -- are much better.

The Sox have Swisher's and Quentin's peak years for relatively cheap (which wouldn't be the case for Burrell and Cameron).  Furcal's contract is an albatross, whereas Cabrera is on a one year deal.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 9, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

If ifs and buts...
This is all assuming, of course, that Furcal or Burrell deals were even interesting to the either side and that Wood's arm stays attached to his body in 2008.

And are we really going to pine for Cameron? I can hear (or foresee, rather) the "Just what we need, another aging veteran" posts already.

by HulkSmash on Jan 9, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Furcal is on a 1-year deal
As is Burell... That was an essential cog to the plan, which was very NBA-like in that it was about acquiring expiring big $ contracts with the intent to compete now and build for the future through the added draft picks.

If Cabrera wasn't added, I would be railing about the missed opportunity to add 4 top 50 2009 draft picks instead of 2.

I'm of the opinion that it's almost impossible to have a bad 1-year contract in MLB, especially when that player project to be a type-A free agent in a years time. There are no 1-year albatrosses.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 9, 2008 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought Furcal...
...signed a long term deal with LA.  My bad.  But I don't see how the Sox would give up any less for him than Cabrera.

As for Burrell, that's my point.  The Sox gave up more for Swisher, but Swisher is signed cheaplly through 2012.  Plus, he's 4-5 years younger.

by BridgeportJoe on Jan 10, 2008 7:06 AM CST up reply actions  

So that is the offensive side of the discussion
What does everyone think about the comparison of the two groups of players from a defensive standpoint?
I hate Illinois Nazis.

by MarketMaker on Jan 9, 2008 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

O/T
Colin, I can't remember if this came up before, but did you think Mallett was going to leave and/or is it better for UM that he is leaving? And did you expect both Manningham and Arrington to leave?
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 9, 2008 6:29 PM CST reply actions  

Mallet
I brought up the fact that mallet wasnt going to fit in the new system.  i had a hunch he'd leave.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 9, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

He could have if Rich was willing
to compromise.  
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Bleh, I was going to respond to this
yesterday.  Forgot, sry.

A freshman quarterback is almost always a bad thing.  Even Henne was severely limited and lucked out thanks to having all everything best ever Braylon.  I watched that whole season knowing that if Chad wasn't constantly passing that game, his rhythm and mechanics would suffer.  Mallett was the same way, only worse.

So why was he so bad?  Hard to say.  There was a lot of speculation that he was something of a prima donna, but let's face it: we don't know.  If Lloyd liked him (and I'm pretty sure he did) that's endorsement enough for me.  Besides, it's Michigan.  We just make quarterbacks here.  He's the centerpiece of the offense.

So: if Scot Loeffler (the QB coach) had stayed on under Rich, I'm pretty confident he would have been acceptable at least and an all star by junior season.  Ryan's right to stick with Scot, because he made Navarre into an NFL pick and you saw what Henne looked like in the bowl game.  He's polished mechanically, looks off defenders and understands coverages.  That's what Michigan quarterbacks have been since Grbac and Loeffler did much to uphold that legacy.  I mean hell, even Matt Gutierrez got drafted by the Patriots.  I really doubt he would have been touched as a D1-AA if he hadn't been thought good enough to go to Michigan in the first place.

As for the receivers: Mario was widely speculated before the season to be gone.  Adrian had a huge game in the CapOne Bowl and was generally just fantastic the entire season.  His hands are phenomenal, not to mention his obvious size advantage.  I'm not certain about his speed, but a guy that works as hard as he did to stay on the team and has size and hands is going to have a good chance.  He might end up being more Marquise Walker than Braylon though.  We'll see.  Lloyd met him every day over the summer to do stairs at the Big House after he got in trouble over...something? Forget what.  Lloyd talked about it in the press conference and it was really touching.  

So: all in all I'm kind of concerned.  I mean I like change and everything, but the way Rich has gone about it has been without the grace that Lloyd brought to the program every day.  It comes off as very Weis-ian honestly.

Phew.  Enough words.

Also: why all the Michigan questions?  You a grad, or just interested?  Just curious.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

of course not.
i'm a badger. just love talking big ten football and you're the pulse of michigan football on here. and michigan football change is the only thing going on with big ten football right now.
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

badgers looking good
for 2008.  but then again, i'm a badger too.

by palehose67 on Jan 10, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

it's all on evridge.
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Ah, gotcha.
Glad to help.  And I love talking Big Ten football too.  What do you think of Bielema so far?  Alvarez strikes me as a better coach, but maybe I'm wrong.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

The results have been ok,
but Barry is still around to throw his weight around. From what I hear, I'm worried that Bielema is a Larry Eustachy waiting to happen.
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Big Ten gay, you guys are
And I am a Big Ten guy, I am.
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 10, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

here is what you really are...
Bob who is 19 : "Whoa, Sam you got with that old bird last night didnt you?"

Sam (also 19): "Sure did and she was one hot Milf"

Bob : "Well dude welcome to the Boilermaker Club"

brought to you by your friends at urbandictionary.com.

Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Where is Soulja Boy when I
need him?

'Course I happen to like milfs more than some of you...

"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 10, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

MILF rules
i think MILF rules dictate that the MILF must be somewhat older than you, so i guess at this point you're treading into great-great-MILF land.
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

WU doesn't care...
as long as the teeth come out.
It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jan 10, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions  

1980
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 10, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions  

so
does that mean you thinks hes going to "hit rock bottom with no one to blame but himself"?
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

hmmm...
if by that you mean ending up on youtube doing body shots off of a state senator's twin daughters, then yeah.
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

i love it
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I assume you're being somewhat
facetious, right?  Also: what's the deal with the lack of Badger blogs.  Aren't you guys a supposedly rabid fan base?  Your online presence is zilch.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

everybody is out drinking.
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

It's just a different culture I guess
Beer leads to twin banging, Pot leads to faux intellectualism and a love of typing.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions  

in the end, though,
as long as we all hate the sec and ohio state, life is good.
Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothing new to say.

by Toonderstrook on Jan 10, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Peace in our time!
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

the SEC is the best football conference
hands down.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 10, 2008 8:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Amen to that!
I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Jan 11, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Pitch Data
for some high-strikeout guys (to compare to Fields) that I said I was going to post back before I got bogged down being sick...
AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Jan 9, 2008 7:54 PM CST reply actions  

Where's the Chicago Tough, Cheat?
First New Year's Day, now this week?  WTF?
"I can't give you a dollar if I don't have 50 cents. Decisions are made awfully easy for you."

by winningugly on Jan 10, 2008 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

None of them have the low K rates
Fields does against offspeed stuff.  Man, he really has a unique skill set.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

no nose job for The Legend
[SF Chronicle]:
The newest face of the Giants' franchise sports a nose that points to the left, a remnant of a boxing match against the center-field fence in Philadelphia two seasons ago. The fence won with a one-punch knockout.

It will be a lifelong reminder for Aaron Rowand, who has no desire to pretty up his face with a nose job.

"Hey," he said. "Chicks dig scars."

by The Wizard on Jan 9, 2008 10:02 PM CST reply actions  

Wow.
The Legend of Rowand grows...
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 9, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah man Im happy for him
It's like he has his "own band" now. I hope he makes that contract worth while. He seems like a really nice guy who doesn't quite take himself too seriously. Gotta respect that in this day and age.
It's all about the SOX baby! www.firestarclothing.com

by Eternalkonflict on Jan 9, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Happy for him too
He's always seemed like a decent guy. I mean, he supposedly injured himself playing tag with some kids last season. How freaking heart-warming is that? Particularly when contrasted with the Albert Belle version of tag?

by hitlesswonder on Jan 9, 2008 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

HA!
With a Cadillac.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 10, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions  

or a revolver
what a saint
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I wonder why OC's SLG is expected...
to be 30 points lower than his career avg, especially with a move to a hitter friendly park?

He's had a SLG % lower than .380 only twice in a full season, and had a .404 in 2006, and a .397 in 2007.

Just seems odd. I really don't care how high his SLG is, I just find it odd. I want his OBP go up though. If he gets it up to the .345 clip he was at last year, that'd be a real coup.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 9, 2008 11:16 PM CST reply actions  

I think that means he's a
good candidate for decline...like his 15% is really bad or something?
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

De Luca
And an aging rotation minus Garland hardly inspires confidence. Staff ace Mark Buehrle -- outside of his April no-hitter last season -- hasn't looked the same since 2005.

is this guy smoking crack?? i understand he was awful in 2006, but as far as ERA, whip, and BAA, he was under or exactly on par with his career averages.  sometimes i dont get what the hell these writers look at or base their judgements off of.  im sure he looked at WINS, and only say a 10-9 recrod and probably thought that sucked.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 7:27 AM CST reply actions  

Research? What these writers look at?
De Luca looked at his deadline, and said, "oh crap, I'd better come up with something!"

by HulkSmash on Jan 10, 2008 7:45 AM CST up reply actions  

seriously
i understand these guys get tight deadlines, but can they please get these guys to at least look at the correct stats or have someone to talk to so they dont look/sound like complete morons?
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Not when you're writing for an audience
that thinks sabermetrics is an fitness program.

by HulkSmash on Jan 10, 2008 8:10 AM CST up reply actions  

its not?!
i could have sworn it was a more rigorous version of plyometrics......
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Our staff isn't really that old
Vasquez and the Count... who knows how old the Count really is... but Vasquez is in his early 30's and Buehrle is right at the cusp. the rest of our "staff" is young. That's hardly an aging staff.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 10, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Average age of Starting Rotations as of today
Detroit - 29.4
Sox - 28.2
Cleveland - 27.8
KC - 26.6
Minnesota - 25.4

by BoKnows on Jan 10, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I think...
Kenny Rogers really skews the numbers there.

Median age would probably be a better indicator of the youth of the rotation than mean.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 10, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

indeed
even using mean, none of those rotations are particularly old - though detroit is close. depending upon who you believe, 28ish-30ish is prime for starters.

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Just for you JRE...using median
Sox - 28
Cleveland - 27
Minnesota - 26
KC - 26
Detroit - 25

Haha...I'd say Kenny Rodgers skews the results just a bit.  

Like Larry said, none of those rotations are particularly old.

by BoKnows on Jan 10, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

not to make you do more work
but how does that compare to the rest of the league? maybe that rotation is actually "old" compared to others - of course, like i pointed out, prime is theoretically late twenties so having a "young" rotation may not be particularly good.

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry Larry...
I don't have enough time to pull that together.

I'd also be interested to see the relationship between average age of a starting rotation and performance.

by BoKnows on Jan 10, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree.
late 20's is a pitcher's prime IMO, depending on how many innings were thrown prior, of course. Zambrano's prime probably won't be his late 20's because of his style of pitching and how many IP he's logged, but I think for the majority, late 20's is the best.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 10, 2008 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

he may be sort of right
but probably not because he did any in-depth research. MB's second half wasn't particularly pretty when you delve into the numbers. had an xERA over 4.00 in every month except april. xERA for the second half was a pretty nasty 4.89 (for comparison purposes, his xERA in 2006 overall was 4.72). WHIP was 1.42 in second half. and K% was down, as well, in the second half. when you take the last two years as a whole, there isn't a whole lot to be all that excited about.

we're obviously dealing with a smallish sample size but there are trends in them that are concerning. i would highly doubt MB is going to post a sub 4.00 again next year.

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

larry
can you explain what an xERA is??
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

expected ERA
first google hit had this to say:

Expected ERA (XERA)

Description: xERA represents the expected ERA of the pitcher based on a normal distribution of his statistics. It is not influenced by situation-dependent factors. xERA erases the inequity between starters' and relievers' ERAs, eliminating the effect that a pitcher's success or failure has on another pitcher's ERA. Similar to other gauges, the accuracy of this formula changes with the level of competition from one season to the next. The normalizing factor allows us to better approximate a pitcher's actual ERA. This value is usually somewhere around 2.77 and varies by league and year.

XERA = (.575 * H/9 ) + (.94 * HR/9 ) + (.28 * BB/9 ) - (.01 * K/9 ) - Normalizing Factor

http://danagonistes.blogspot.com/2004/09/more-accurate-era.html

now, xERA shouldn't be gospel; but such a large discrepancy shouldn't be ignored, either.

and since i didn't include it in the original post, MB had an actual ERA of 3.63 with an overall xERA of 4.39.

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I bet Buehrle generally has a better
ERA than xERA.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions  

sure
but not to the tune of 0.76. the portion he outperforms by his own skill is probably around 0.1. for comparison sake, his career ERA is 4.17 and his career xERA is 4.35. last year significantly widened the gap.

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

and by "career"
i mean what i have stats for: last five years, since 03.

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

well he is a soft thrower
and according to some, there's an adjustment period that you go through around 30 for such pitchers.
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

problem is
that adjustment period seemed to start at 27 for MB.

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

that could be for the best
it hopefully means he's adjusted and we can expect a tier lower in performance but have at least dealt with the worst (second half 2006).  i dn.  the odds are good that he stays a healthy innings eater though.

also: am i the only one who is annoyed by kevin goldstein?  his writing and opinions seem to contain a lot of certainty despite the fact that he can't answer questions about the expected distribution of major leaguers in the minors at any given time.  

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I think
we're going to see a pretty big difference in philophy and use of the pitching this year. I started thinking about it after I read Larry's post. There's going to be less difference in effectiveness between starters and relievers, in an overall sense, this year. At least I think so. Hopefully, less reliaance on our starters having to go big innings because of a combination of what larry describes with Buehrle, two question marks in Floyd and Danks, and a likely longer and more effective bullpen hopefully reduces starter's innings around 10% and translates into better overall numbers versus our heavy reliance in the past few years. I wouldn't mind both Buehrle and Vassquez topping out at 180 this year.

by dantesox on Jan 10, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

santana to the mets?
    The Star Tribune's Joe Christensen believes the Twins would send Johan Santana to the Mets if New York added Fernando Martinez to its current offer of Carlos Gomez, Deolis Guerra, Phil Humber and Kevin Mulvey.

that would be pretty disgusting hall for the twins if they can get that from the mets.  part of me wants santana gone into the NL, but then part of me doesnt want to have to deal with any of those prospects if they turn out in 3 or 4 years.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 7:47 AM CST reply actions  

That's nothing
Did you hear the latest rumored Reds offer for Bedard?

-Baily
-Cueto
-Votto

Three A prospects instead of one fringe A/B for Santana.  Makes no sense

by 3E8 on Jan 10, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

i find it hard to believe
that the reds would be willing to give up both Cuetto and bailey.  but, i've seen dumber things happen.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Well...
Johan Santana's a free agent after this year, while Bedard won't be a free agent until after [i]next[/i] year.  That's worth something.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 10, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Is Krivsky that dumb?
His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Jan 10, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey
Good point about center field. Who is going to play there. I really want to see Swisher or Fields in left while Quinten recovers. With Carlos out til probably May I like Swisher in left Owens in center. I am in a log jam though because I love Owen's defense in center over anyone else we put there. I think Owens can bring a lot to this team... but the problem is Carlos could hit 25 hr's 90 rbi's this year if he plays everyday. What about Fields, and Crede??? One of those guys has to be moved now and im sure which. If Kenny's plan is to win in 08 Crede is at 3rd and Fields is in the minors. I think there is going to be another major shake up because the pieces don't fit very well right now. We have too many guys to play left field and 3rd base with no clear cut centerfielder besides Owens.
Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521

by Soulja Boy on Jan 10, 2008 8:28 AM CST reply actions  

Crede helps us win in 08?
I totally disagree. Fields at 3B, Crede traded for a reliever or put together in a package for a reliever/util guy. Then Swish/Owens/Dye/Quentin in the OF mix.

That helps us win in 08. Not Crede at 3B, IMO.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 10, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

According
to Olney, Konerko talks with the Angels will heat up in the future....I take that as meaning when it is clear Crede is healthy and ready....I still think there's a good chance they go in a package to the Angels.

by dantesox on Jan 10, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

it just wont die
will it??  i think you're right about crede though, if he proves hes healthy, i can see a package to the angels with those two.  but im really so damn tired of this debate on who we feel is worthy of coming back.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Figgins for sure,
and I'm guessing Santana and/or one of their bullpen arms would be the primary suspects.

by dantesox on Jan 10, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

CAN YOU REALLY SAY
THAT FIELDS IS A BETTER OVERALL PLAYER? I DONT THINK SO IN THE SHORT TERM. THATS WHY I THREW THE IDEA OF HIM PLAYING LF AGAIN. FIELDS DEFENSE IS BELOW AVG. AND DOESN'T COME CLOSE TO CREDE'S D. IF CREDE IS HEALTHY AND WILLING TO NEGOTIATE A CONTRACT EXTENSION HE SHOULD START 3RD. THEN WE CAN GET RID OF KONERKO AND PUT FIELDS AT 1ST BASE.
Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521

by Soulja Boy on Jan 10, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes, I can definitely say...
that Fields is a better overall player in the short term.

He's a lot cheaper, and his defense, while worse, isn't historically bad.

Besides, your argument is based entirely on whether Crede is healthy, that's a big if, and also if he can renegotiate his contract. That's another big IF.

And no, you didn't throw out the idea of him playing LF for the Sox to compete in 08. You said the best way for the Sox to compete in 08 was for Crede to play 3B and Fields to go back to the minors. Also, do you not recall Kenny saying last year that the Fields/LF experiment was over?

And typing in all caps doesn't get your point across any better. It just makes you look dumber.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 10, 2008 8:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry
I keep caps lock on at work. Need to get my points across... ya know? First off, what do I care if Fields is "cheaper", I want my team to retain it's best players at whatever cost. 2nd off, when I said Fields should go back down to the minors... as this roster is currently constructed to field the best team would mean, Fields would start in triple A IF Crede is healthy enough to start the season. Lastly, a hillbilly calling me "dumb" is a compliment IMO.
Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521

by Soulja Boy on Jan 11, 2008 8:15 AM CST up reply actions  

You really undervalue Fields
I agree with SSH, Fields won't go back to AAA. He has nothing to prove there. KW will sooner trade Crede than keep Crede and put Fields back in AAA.

And there are no hills in SC within ~200 miles of where I live.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 11, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Imagine.....
if MacDougal and Aardsma have it together in Spring Training.....admittedly I'm usually a pessimist but I actually think the Sox bullpen has the potential to be a top 10 pen.

by stanchar on Jan 10, 2008 10:11 AM CST reply actions  

Yes
The potential is there...is the control there?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 10, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions  

BP's revised top 11 sox prospects
New Rankings
  1. Aaron Poreda, LHP
  2. John Shelby, Jr. CF
  3. Jose Martinez, OF
  4. Jack Egbert, RHP
  5. Lance Broadway, RHP
  6. Brian Omogrosso, RHP
  7. Kyle McCulloch, RHP
  8. Christian Marrero, 1B
  9. John Ely, RHP
  10. Salvador Sanchez, OF
  11. Charlie Haeger, RHP
So for two good young outfielders (yes, I still have some faith in Quentin), the White Sox deplete what was already a very bad system, dealing away three of their top four prospects as well as a quickly declining Ryan Sweeney, who ranked eighth. So we need four names to pop at the end. Marrero is the older brother of Nationals prospect Chris Marrero, and like his brother he has an impressive power bat, but he's also older and not out of short-season ball yet. A third-round pick last June, Ely is a righty with good stuff that is brought down by a smallish frame and rough mechanics. Sanchez is one of those players to dream about, a long, lanky 6'6" outfielder with a ton of tools, but at the same time he's 22 and just finished a year in the Pioneer League. Haeger slides in on the end due to the theory that you give the knuckleballer another shot.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7033

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 11:01 AM CST reply actions  

I still think...
that Charlie Haeger will be a solid major-league pitcher someday.

Probably not for the Sox, sadly.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 10, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I like Broadway
He showed some flashes last year and could fit the rotation in 2009.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Jan 10, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

I see Lance Broadway...
and I keep thinking, "Danny Wright".  I hope I'm wrong.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Jan 10, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't think so...
Wright had a fastball that sat at 93 when healthy and craptastic control. Broadway has a fastball that sits at 89 and craptastic control. So they aren't really comparable.

In fairness, Broadway's breaking stuff is much better and he had unterrible control earlier in his career. Wright was continually plagued by control problems.

by hitlesswonder on Jan 10, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Frankly I'm surprised
Poreda is our new #1. When he was drafted last year I was disappointed the Sox didn't take Porcello. That he is our best prospect now I think says a lot about our system.

However, it is a good sign that the guys we drafted last year are doing well and projecting well. It shows some hope that our scouts are doing something right.

My opinion? The sox draft all position players next draft. At least for the first 10 rounds. Fill out the rest with pitchers.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 10, 2008 8:32 PM CST up reply actions  

i've mentioned this before
because fans (at least on this board) really wanted porcello or whoever, many have an irrational bias towards underrating poreda.

of course, it's one man's opinion that he's #1 (although sickels also considers him a B+ and the sox #1).

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

if he pitches well in '08
I may change my mind on him from a pretty decent prospect to our absolute, indisputable #1.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Jan 10, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

seriously, the stupidity blows my mind
according to this article, the sox have a one man rotation...check it out.
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/rosenblog/2008/01/os-roberts-is-i.html
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Jan 10, 2008 11:54 AM CST reply actions  

From the same link:
Last item:

Who is Nick Swisher, other than a .260 hitter with average (in this era) power? He's basically Jacque Jones with a personality.
Posted by: John | Jan 4, 2008 9:45:42 AM

I think he's more versatile, but I love that Jacque Jones with a personality line. Prize closet.

It should be called Bill Veeck Park!

by Chiburb on Jan 10, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Mainstream sportwriting makes me wretch
Rosenbloom in particualrly is unimpressive. I have more synpathy for the beat guys who at least gather information in addition to holding silly opinions. Rosenbloom gets paid to sit there and decide that the big difference between Jacques Jones and Swisher is that Swisher can play 1B. Outstanding. And who is Javier Vazquez again?

by hitlesswonder on Jan 10, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

good find, grasshopper
This day (American time January 9th), the right elbow is operated. After last year, the right elbow breaking down, you assumed worry to everyone directly. It is conclusion the end when I myself was troubled, thought the variety. Now being also heart clear, persevering, it is the feeling that it probably will face to operation. Securely also rehabilitating, because be sure to return to the mound, please support. While grasping the ball, being able pass the kind of time when you do not read the book and/or do not look at DVD, do not meet to the person, does not do story by the telephone, is usually not possible, you feel that it did the experience which is good to my appearance, good study was possible. In such sense, you think that "valuable time" could be passed. Also the family could pass end of year beginning of the year, slowly and, because family everyone has attended to also latest operation, heart it is strong, is. If there is the encouraging from plus, everyone in this, there are no fearful ones and the like in me! From small time, associating to my dream directly, it is the right arm which perseveres. You appreciate truly. And, still it makes my dream associate it is the intention even from this. Last night, while appreciating in long time meritorious service, "power it has raising more, you inserted the partner" and, the Š... and solved (laughing). Well, tardy... opening, you question with the ,ß, it is! We ask also this year please may. Was opening 2008 of everyone how? You could pass New Year's Day, to be pleasant? It raises the goal of this year and increase is high? When operation pauses ending, in addition it reports. First voice of course

http://www.aspara.co.jp/aki-otsuka/

by larry on Jan 10, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Just imagine...
we could have Akinori Otsuka for Chris Carter instead of Carlos Quentin.  Yucky.

by SSH2005 on Jan 10, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

JUST CURIOUS
WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK THE CUBS ARE GOING TO DO THIS YEAR?
Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521

by Soulja Boy on Jan 10, 2008 2:59 PM CST reply actions  

play baseball, Sweet Lou style
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

by rhythm on Jan 11, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions  

One benefit of Kenny's Plan
It's $32.5 million cheaper over the next two years than The Cheat's!

I think it's unrealistic to think that any GM would be willing to punt the next 4-5 years (until the 2008/2009 draft picks are ready) on a rebuilding project.  If we're talking about 2010, can anyone really say right now that Sweeney/Carter/DLS/Gio is going to be a better combination than Quentin/Swisher/2 pitchers-to-be-determined?

None of this excuses Linebrink.

by Bear89 on Jan 10, 2008 3:38 PM CST reply actions  

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