The Larry Plan
"Summary
while i think the sox would need to significantly improve their roster to compete in 2009, that will be a difficult task given the contract situations. you really have to hope (again) that the young guys in richard, getz, and fields take steps forward and the old guys stay relatively healthy and productive. for all of you screaming “how can you not start swisher?” well, he was horseshit last season. frankly, however much i like him and think he’ll do fine in the long run, he doesn’t really deserve to, especially considering his second half non-bad luck induced suckitude. i think he’ll need to play his way back into favor with ozzie. of course, i also think there will be plenty of playing time for him to get with thome, konerko, dye, baldelli, etc. rest will be required for them, between what i view as some inevitable stints on the shelf.
i’d like to shop dye but i’m not sure what the market looks like for him. target would stopgap infield help.
baldelli should be signed to an incentive laden 2-year guaranteed deal valued initially at approximately $7-9M. incentives largely tied to games played/plate appearances. 1 or 2 option years vest automatically with plate appearance targets (similar to thome but, since he’s going into a platoon situation at least initially under my plan, targets should be lower – let’s say 550 in one year or 900 over two years) . any contract with baldelli would probably be a very creative one so these are, again, preliminary thoughts on a structure and dollar amounts. obviously, a team would be very inclined to lower the guaranteed value in exchange for higher incentive value. not sure what rocco would think of that.
i don’t think the sox will have a great deal to spend in the FA market, thus the purchases are relatively cheap. i’m sure KW will try to make a trade or three (dye predominantly and/or to acquire an outfielder or 3B or 2B). but i’m having trouble seeing matches and i’m reticent to trade anything the sox have in the minors. like the sox really have anything in the minors to trade that would bring anything back. har har.
and, yes, that’s a six man bullpen. deal with it, ozzie."
acquisitions and disposals.
goodbye: griffey, wise, h. ramirez, cabrera, macdougal, carrasco.
hello: rocco baldelli, mark grudzielanek.
time to step up
josh fields: 3B is yours. fight off uribe.
chris getz: 2B is yours. fight off grudzielanek.
clayton richard: 5th starter is yours.
Lineup
LF Quentin
CF Baldelli
RF Dye
3B Fields
SS Ramirez
2B Getz
1B Konerko
C Pierzynski
DH Thome
Bench
OF Anderson
IF/OF Swisher (“platooning” in all outfield spots and 1B – basically 4-5 starts a week, at least, to begin season).
IF Uribe
IF Grudzielanek
C Hall
Rotation
Buehrle
Danks
Floyd
Vazquez
Richard
Bullpen
Jenks
Thornton
Dotel
Linebrink
Russell
Joseph Torres
Your Intrepid Blogger's Notes
Everyone may have seen this already, but it'll help re-direct conversation back to baseball and hopefully liven up a pretty dead discussion. Plus, it's as definitive a plan as anyone in the media the has presented thus far As for me, I'm working on some possible trading partners and I might look at the SS/CF markets as well. My intent was to get posts up about the relevant information and then get an off-season plan up with all of that in tow (and hopefully provide everyone else the context to do their own). So feel free to speculate in those directions.
I will say that I'm skeptical that Rocco will actually add a whole lot to the 2009 White Sox, but Larry admits as much in talking about the kind of signing it would be. The point of the signing would be to add depth and upside at a low-ish cost, which is certainly what I hoped the Griffey trade would accomplish. The nice thing about Baldelli is that there's so little downside when he's on the field that there's nothing for Ozzie to screw up. I thought that Mark Ellis qualified similarly, which is why I made him the target of my 2B post. So any other players that fall into that kind of category should definitely be brought up if you can think of any.
SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.
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as an addendum, one should read "grudzielanek" as "some stopgap FA 2B of decent repute".
i’d start getz and let uribe be the caddy if i had my druthers. but i don’t think the sox do that. my heart really isn’t into parsing the various possibilities because they’re all sort of uninspiring in their own particular way.
Gas is up and so am I.
i did pretty much the same thing
in glossing over the Getz-like FA keystoners. they’re so boring.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
boring is sort of good.
i think i’d be fine with any of about five or six of those listed in that link.
Gas is up and so am I.
yeah i don't have a huge problem with boring
it’s just that they are what they are and doing any kind of “analysis” is pretty excessive.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
eckstein?
forgot about him as a possibility.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
i've liked torres for many years.
going back to when he was drafted out of high school by the angels in, what, 2000? he had great, great stuff then. i understand his innumerable injury issues have caused that stuff to be less than its former electric but his numbers from AA this year, and since he entered the sox organization, have been good. i’m never a big fan of signing relievers, though the sox system is pretty dry for loogys (i don’t hold out a great deal of hope for logan – he seems to have worn out his welcome). torres is the only in house option. i could see the sox trading something for a loogy in the offseason or during ST.
Gas is up and so am I.
Or pick one up on the scrap heap.
They seem to be the most “fungible” asset, nicht war?
I think i did this wrong. Oh well…..delete my votes as they all suck anyway.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2008 2:02 AM EDT
right.
the trade would also be of the scrap heap variety, too. i view torres as a scrap heap signing because he was scrap when he left the angels system. couldn’t find the plate for his life.
Gas is up and so am I.
So was Jenks.
(Over-the-top example, but whatthehell.) You never know. Lots of burned-out starters can hang on via “specialty” relief and do a decent enough job. I’m not worried about being able to get a LOOGY.
3B and CF, however…
I think i did this wrong. Oh well…..delete my votes as they all suck anyway.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2008 2:02 AM EDT
well, that's true.
however, i think torres can be very, very good. and i’m not talking about how i liked carrasco in ST. i mean like thornton level. i hope the sox hang onto him.
Gas is up and so am I.
Thornton-esque would be a win.
I think i did this wrong. Oh well…..delete my votes as they all suck anyway.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2008 2:02 AM EDT
Conventional Wisdom says that there aren't any real viable solutions for signifcantly improving the team
Thank god the Sox have KW running things or I’d be depressed.
there are not very many good looking options
if you’re looking at traditional venues. the sox are in a place where it’s going to be very expensive to buy wins, so reallocating resources via trade is both more efficient and difficult to make predictions about.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
early marcel projections
have fun decoding.
baldelli: .272/.335/.469
http://www.editgrid.com/user/cwyers/2009_Marcels_Projections
Gas is up and so am I.
We need to trust the young guys...
I know that’s scary and unlikely to pay off in the short term… but what do you have them for if you can’t rely on their talent?
That doesn’t mean Anderson should be on the team, though. He needs to find a home where he can play. And I’m sort of worried about Swisher, he seems more like a west-coast guy to me. That one could be tough to swallow. Or, he could go back to 2006/7 form and all is swell. Strange fact about Swish: his OPS is highest by a lot when he plays LF… small sample size… and then bring back Owens. Unless he lost his speed… which he may have. Jason Michaels perhaps?
“but what do you have them for if you can’t rely on their talent?”
KW’s MO has not been to keep them around long enough to find out.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
Thing is... we have a golden opportunity to find out what we have; I just hope he's patient enough to wait.
Because God knows we aren’t getting anything in a trade for him.
I’m trying to think of an infielder we can trade Swish for. Gatkins? One would only be lucky to have the bliss of wanting to trade him for Brandon Phillips. But the truth is, we would be creating a hole by trading anyone on the team and I’m more comfortable with the idea of Getz and Uribe than Anderson and… well. Like I’ve said before, I think this is the one offseason for Kenny to fold, if ever. But we know better. I fear an A.J. Burnett signing, m’self.
Larry plan
Larry your plan is kind of disappointing. (I know this is what you think will happen and not what you want to happen) That doesn’t mean that it isn’t right though. I would hope the starting rotation gains at least one more good pitcher and I really hope that they get at least one infielder with more talent than Grudz. Baldelli is intriguing in centerfield but his injuries concern me.
Kenwo4life=ratings
Getz and Fields as starters really makes me nervous.
Let’s hope we can find a taker for Dye.
And please, stop this nonsense about trading Swisher because he’s “more of a west coast guy” or some such. His value is at an all-time low, which is generally not the best time to trade a guy. I like the idea of trading Dye much more, as he’s coming off a pretty good season (his late-season power swoon notwithstanding) and could fetch a decent return.
"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ
I disagree
I don’t think trading Dye is a great move. He is one of your most consistent guys on the team. Sure he is the easiest to trade but I don’t think you will get anything near market value for him. I’d rather try to trade Konerko by paying off a lot of his salary. Why trade a guy that will hit 285 with 28-35 homers and knock in 85-100 runs. Especially if you believe you can compete in the division, which i don’t see why they can’t.
Kenwo4life=ratings
you trade dye because
konerko has full no trade rights and dye will bring you back more in return
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
shenanigans
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Oct 17, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
i don't think it's a great move, either, at least in the vacuum of not knowing what else KW would be doing.
i also would note here that my intention with acquiring baldelli and keeping everyone else is designed primarily to add depth at a low cost. what this depth obviously permits is a player or players to go down for an extended period at any of five positions and experience liitle to no difference in production. what it also permits is the sox, if they choose, to trade at the deadline from depth – assuming the health of the involved players. if the sox are out of it, a guy like thome may be more willing to waive his NTC. maybe PK, as well, though i think that’s less likely. dye would obviously still be a very tradeable commodity at the deadline, as well. and if the sox are still in it, he may be the player the sox could 1) move easiest (no NTC to worry about – neither PK nor thome are likely to waive if the sox are in contention); 2) would get the best return on a short term rental basis.
Kenny on the Phones - my favorite GM
I do like the idea of having depth, particularly with our elderly statesmen.
Given Dye’s significant contributions to the Sox’s last two playoff runs, though, I have a hard time seeing the Sox part with him in the middle of a third. Especially since, even if all the outfielders manage to remain healthy and productive up to the deadline, that’s no guarantee for continued health in August and September, and we’d look pretty foolish trading Dye in July and then watching, say, Baldelli go down two weeks later.
I just can’t shake the feeling that Dye’s going to suffer a decline this year. His value is high, and I think Kenny should set the bar high. No way should Kenny sell low on him, but if he can get, say, an average reliever and a reasonably valuable infielder, he can make the move.
One good thing about having so many holes (2B, 3B, CF, SS if Alexei stays put, LH RP, 5th starter) is that it gives Kenny more options in trades, and we all know Kenny loves options.
"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ
i don't think it would be foolish, per se.
there’s risk involved, of course. however, i feel quite comfortable with the sox’ depth in the outfield under this plan, especially if one would to include alexei in it. and uribe could replace alexei. hell, if you believe derek mckamey, who i quoted in the minor league fanpost, beckham will be ready by august.
the sox will be in the same situation next year as this w/r/t needing players to stay healthy. the sox did a good job of this basically until august and that was just barely enough in this weak division to seal it up. it ain’t going to be like that again next year. which is why i’ve added depth – so one can conceivably rest some of the older players in the hopes of them staying fresher and avoiding injury. if it gets to the deadline, the sox can choose to hold onto their players to avoid a repeat of last season. or they can roll the dice and acquire something that may help more than griffey did this year. you say KW likes options. this plan gives him that, assuming health.
Kenny on the Phones - my favorite GM
Becks in August?
I’d stick with mid-2010 like the other projection that was listed (forget which one – BP?).
I think i did this wrong. Oh well…..delete my votes as they all suck anyway.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2008 2:02 AM EDT
beckham? will make the team in spring training
:p
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
I guess there are risks involved no matter how you look at it.
Obviously you can’t trade Dye without having Baldelli or the equivalent in your back pocket. We can all agree that relying on Baldelli for the full season is a recipe for disaster (thank you, rockraines), but the flip side of that is that waiting until the deadline to trade Dye might lead to a significantly lower return if he sucks this year.
I’m just happy that the Sox have a few young players to be excited about (notably Quentin, Alexei, Danks, Becks, Poreda), which was not the case at this time last year. If Kenny could field a reasonably competitive team with the morass he had at the end of ’07, I have full faith in his abilities this offseason.
"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ
I have faith in no one.
The Almighty. That’s it. KW is close, though.
I think i did this wrong. Oh well…..delete my votes as they all suck anyway.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Oct 10, 2008 2:02 AM EDT
Technically, I didn't state my faith in a person, but a person's ability.
Is that significant? Or am I just being a prick?
"The Sox have a better home record than the Twins, but...we're not at home right now." -DJ
Oh don't worry, you're being a prick
;)
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
Personally
I hope they give Dye another contract so he can take over the DH duties next season. I think he will be productive for another 3-4 years with the stick. He played ok defense this year but you can see that his skills and willingness to make the diving play may lead to injuries. As a DH i think he would be perfect taking over for Thome in ‘10. I don’t believe i just typed 2010…jesus christ. time flies.
Kenwo4life=ratings
prelininary fan scouting report results re: fielding
http://tangotiger.net/scouting/scoutResults2008.html
some explication
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/fans_scouting_report_full_preliminary_results/
Kenny on the Phones - my favorite GM
LOL Baldelli
Who will play the other 120 games then? He can only play 1 or 2 times a week Max
i hadn't realized ssh was training so many clones.
the only issue now is whether i make it out of hampton alive.
by Toonderstrook on Oct 17, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
i know. pervasive.
they’re good clones, too. also exhibit the inability to look up simple things.
Kenny on the Phones - my favorite GM
He has entirely relocated to India, in fact, where he is training the clones' clones as well.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 17, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions
ssh's last assignment was in pakistan
who knows how many he got to
by onlysoxfaninboston on Oct 18, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Rocco Baldelli
How will you depend on him for a whole year? You said 7-9 million for at most 60 games the whole year. Why don’t the White Sox just burn that money in a furnace. Or, they can spend it on some bullpen help.
you know, using your brain when posting here is okay.
i’d say it’s even tacitly encouraged.
"winning tacos for America was pretty cool too."
i'm thinking the guy should 1) actually read what i wrote and respond to that instead and 2) even assuming his 60 games target, compare projected production for price with that of guys like hunter, rowand, and fukudome.
$4M/year for 60 games of baldelli would be a deal, not furnaced cash. but why bother thinking, i guess.
"winning tacos for America was pretty cool too."
how much cash can a team throw into the volatile bullpen arena?
between dotel, linebrink, and jenks, the sox ‘pen next season will already make more than the twins and rays’ rosters combined, or something. although i have to say i get a little bit wet every time i see easy heat’s contract numbers.
"say what again. i dare you, i double dare you, motherfucker."
by Toonderstrook on Oct 23, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
I figure if they stay healthy
we can have 5 of them split the 5th starter’s role each start – Doc Oc the first 2, Liney 2, Easy Heat another 2, maybe Nessie/Tabasco 2, then Jenks.
Whoosh!

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