White Sox Season Ends (for reals this time) in ALDS
by The Cheat on Oct 6, 2008 9:52 PM CDT
in White Sox Game Recaps
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PrintThe White Sox seemed to play their best baseball of the year with their proverbial backs to the wall. They had won 4-in-row (against 4 different teams) in elimination games, when a single loss meant the end of their long season. But winning their 5th elimination game in a row was too much to ask.
I wonder if any team has been able to stave off elimination 5 times in a season/postseason? I'm sure the there was at least one, I just don't know which teams were able to pull off such a feat.
Gavin Floyd gave up a pair of homeruns to the dead red sitting BJ Upton, and was pulled without retiring a batter in the 4th inning, as the Sox offense couldn't match the pace of their Rays counterparts. He probably threw better than Rays' game 2 starter Scott Kazmir, but unlike Kazmir, he had to face an offense that was not about to let a struggling pitcher off the hook. With his offense being Sonnanstine'd, Ozzie was forced to turn to the pen early. Despite another strong outing from Clayton Richard, the Sox could only manage a pair of solo-shots offensively, and got no closer than 3 runs the rest of the game.
We can admit now; now that the Sox are done for the season, now that the Rays have beaten them soundly 3-1. The Rays are a better team than the White Sox, or at least this version of the White Sox; the one without Q! and unable to properly set up their pitching rotation. In addition to their superior team speed, the one area where the Rays were clearly better than the Sox was in the back of their bullpen. And, at least for these 4 games, they pounded the ball out of the ballpark better than the Sox. The better team won.
These Sox weren't firing on all cylinders. The offense just hasn't been the same without our beloved Q!. The rotation was driven hard for 163 games, and strained through most of September with a 4-man rotation. The bullpen needed another week or two to get everyone back, healthy, and in their proper roles. And in the playoffs, anything less than your absolute best earns you a swift trip home.
So, today ends the White Sox' season, and I feel surprisingly good.
Chicago Winters Are Cold Without Warm Memories
When I look back on this season, I won't remember this game, or the series loss to the Rays, or even the 3-game sweep in the Metrodome. No, when I look back on this season, I'll see the "Worst" game of the season, I'll see Q! single-handedly taking out the Angels, I'll see Gavin Floyd's big hairy balls, I'll see that huge smile on Alexei's face, and maybe most of all, I'll see John Danks mowing down the Twins in the Plus One game.
I once called the 2006 club a 90-Win Failure, but that term doesn't apply to this 90-win club. They exceeded all but the loftiest (and unrealistic) expectations, and found some youth around which to build along the way. To me, this season was nearly a complete success. BP agrees.
Onto the Off-Season
Those of you who stumbled onto the site this season will be surprised by how lively this site remains for much of the off-season (save early February, which is a baseball dead-zone). We'll be here to discuss possible free-agent pickups, trades, the prospects we don't have, roster contruction; I might even revisit those 4 elimination game wins, which I was too superstitious to properly recap, as any optimism on this site was met with a karmic slap in the face. So stick around, you might find the site is still a daily stop even when games have ceased.
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my favorite time of year for sss
6 months of proposed roster constructions and trades that would never happen outside of an xbox
I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.
konerko for kotchman, francouer, mccann and jurrjens.
get it done KW.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
not enough speed
Vazquez for Gorkys Hernandez.
Sign Nook Logan.
Thornton for Juan Pierre.
Jenks for Emilio Bonaficio.
Floyd for Willits/Aybar/Figgins
Logan
Pierre
Figgins
Willits
Bonaficio
Q (base cloggers down low)
Hernandez
Aybar
AJP
by Craig Grebeck on Oct 6, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
6 months of proposed roster constructions
what are we going to do without SSH?
by onlysoxfaninboston on Oct 7, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions
enjoy ourselves.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
There you are!
Are you holding up OK, you woman, you?
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
I am a-ok. Loved the whole season. Trying to not say much, as I'm cooking up a fanpost to bore you all to tears...
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Now that was a tough game
to see in person. Just as soon as the place would come to life, the Rays would add on another run. Nonetheless, after predicting a sub .500 season, I’ll take it.
Oh, and Juan for ARod, tat unclutch fuck.
Beckham
What do you have against Beckham. Give him a year or 2 and put him at third with Alexei at ss. That would be one solid left side of the infield. Sure is a lot better than what we have now.
Beckham's bat plays a lot better a 2B/SS than 3B, if he even has the arm for 3B
Moving him to 3B is a waste.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Ozzie's Right
We need some speed!
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell
Irony is
the Sox only win of the playoffs came when they played all small ball, something that people said they couldn’t win with. They hit four dongs the whole series, three of which were the solo variety. There’s already been much said about their lack of speed and there will be plenty more. The fact is, no one wins a playoff series when your two of your starters can’t go past 4 innings.
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 6, 2008 10:52 PM CDT reply actions
small ball?
I don’t call a two run double small ball, but that’s just me
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
You watch the game last night with the Sox down 3 or 4 runs and everyone is still trying to hit the ball out of the ballpark instead of just getting on base. You can’t win in the postseason with trying to rely on hitting the long ball. Back in 05 we had a good balance of speed and power and that is what it takes in october.
How do you know they were all trying to hit it out of the park?
Did you tap into their brains? How do you know they weren’t trying to hit line drives and just missed pitches?
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 7, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I think this upcoming off season will be one of the really fun ones
Get me a 4 starter (with Javy being gone) and some more speed!
a 5 would be nice, too
as The Count will be down for the, uh, count next season.
I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.
by thatshortkid on Oct 6, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
in the end, it was a pretty damn good year
the sox played meaningful october baseball, i attended two of the greatest sox games of my life (tuesday and sunday), and ssh got banned from sss. i’ll take it.
I think Swish will be back next year
After the 6-2 loss to the Rays, general manager Ken Williams stopped at Swisher’s locker, gave him a hug and said, ‘’Come back next year and start all over again.’’
Swisher stepped back and looked away.
’’It’s always easier to start all over,’’ Swisher replied.
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 6, 2008 11:02 PM CDT reply actions
I hope so. He was horrendously unlucky in the first half,
and I think it started to get in his head. I think he’ll have a good year in 2009; it would be stupid to sell low on such a talented player.
by Dongfang Hong on Oct 6, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
PK and Swish unlucky this season
- and #4 respectively in MLB when ranking (BABIP – LD%) in ascending order (min 400 PAs).
Rebound years from PK and Swish are one reason to be hopeful about 2009
If they could both be .850 OPS players, it will help make up for the expected regression from Q and Alexei and Dye….I think that’s not an unreasonable expectation.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 6, 2008 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Why is there an expected regression from Q?
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 6, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Cause he had an MVP caliber season...
I don’t think you can say he’s a shoe-in to post a .965 OPS season each year. I would expect him to very good, to but I think it would be prudent to assume he probably won’t match this year’s numbers.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 6, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions
No he's not a shoe-in for those numbers
but he’s also just entering his prime. I don’t think it’s out of line to expect a .900 OPS for the next few years as long as he stays healthy.
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 6, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I think we're agreeing then
.900 down from .965 is regression. I’m not saying he’s going to crash or anything just that his average performance is likely to be somewhat lower.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 6, 2008 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, I just saw regression and assumed you meant way down
he also missed the last month of the year. 36 HR’s and 100 rbi’s shouldn’t be too hard for him to attain through 162 games
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 6, 2008 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
You can roughly estimate what a player's BABIP should be based on how many line drives they hit
The quick and dirty way is to add .120 to the LD% for your expected BABIP. PK for instance hit line drives 21.5% of the time. Adding .120 to .215 yields an expected BABIP of .335. His real BABIP was 88 points lower than that, .247
yeah, that's not what you said
but whatever, I knew what you meant.
Why so serious?
by reardenmettle on Oct 6, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
i took this at the parade in 2005.....thought it was a good one.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions
what a year, what a year! stumbling into this site was excellent and i'm glad i did...
i’m gonna try and write some stuff this offseason and post if i can make up some time…woot
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
All things considered, I'd say this was the second-best Sox season I can remember.
It’s always sad to realize that the trophy won’t be coming back home, but I feel pretty darn happy about this year regardless.
yeah, its no 2005
but for some reason i really loved 2003. but che’s grandslam is quite hard to compete with. 2005-2006 was my favorite offseason. for the world series obviously, plus we added thome and vazquez, and and resigned kong. I think this offseason could turn out pretty cool as well.
Lurking since 2006
by boyonthedock on Oct 6, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
2008 and 2000 were both excellent seasons
and both were unexpected, for me at least. I’m not sure which one was better.
I’m looking forward to 2009 and what KW does this off season. It should be fun!
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
good to hear the site remains active
in the offseason. basically have the same view of the season as everyone else, so won’t reiterate. my best friend used to work with the guy that runs mlb trade rumors… if i hear anything, i’ll be sure to pass it along. glad i found this site, thanks for working so hard on it cheat.
"...fined for what, hittin' the ball into outer space?"
Among other playoff-related news...
David Aardsma lives in a cave and plays plays profesional cricket, water polo, curling, handball, ping pong, and fencing under other names.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Aardsma
"Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them." Catch-22
Grrr...Phil Rogers
The White Sox don’t have a real No. 1 starter, a guy who dominates teams on his good days and consistently beats them when he’s just all right. Buehrle is a winner but not an intimidator, an ideal No. 2 starter, maybe even No. 3. Danks (12-9) and Floyd (17-8) made huge strides in 2008 but still have some growing to do if they’re going to get there./blockquote>
I realize that “No. 1 starter” is ambiguous and that often people mean “ace” in the sense of Santana or Sabathia. But I have to say:
Danks had a 3.32 ERA (5th in the AL) in 195 innings, pitching in the Cell. Maybe he didn’t get deep enough in games, but please. That’s a fantastic year. I don’t know if he can do it again, but at least he’s done it once.
And Buehrle: 3.79 ERA, 18th in the AL (better than Josh Beckett!) 214 innings (again pitching in hitter-friendly park). Maybe he’s not a “No. 1” starter but let’s not go around thinking that kind of performance is what you should expect from the third slot in the rotation. Sheesh.
Screwed up the formatting....damn brackets
“I realize…” and thereafter is me, not Phil
by hitlesswonder on Oct 6, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
this guy is a moron. pretty sure most teams would be pumped to have buehrle as their number 1 and that he would be considered the number 1 on a good number of teams anyways. i’ve accepted that most media outlets do not care much for us and will continue to see our successes as aberrations year in and year out. we’ll never be the good guys in a movie or be easy for the general public to blindly jump behind. i don’t think i would want it any other way.
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
Neither does Tampa Bay
but that won’t stop Phil from slobbering all over them. He just can’t give credit to KW, it hurts him too much.
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 6, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
The White Sox didn't have a No. 1 in 2005 under those standards
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 6, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Phil forgets we won a World Series with no clear #1.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
how much would Hudson cost us?
i think i would be ok with signing him. as long as he doesn’t OrCa, he could give us a solid 2 years of 2B while Beckham develops
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
so are you still gonna be posting regularly at your site?
cuz my morning routine is already gonna be taking a hit
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
I have always seen Hudson in a Sox uniform
Not sure why, but I have always had a feeling like he would be.
by JoeCoolMan24 on Oct 6, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I dunno why
he just has his guys he’s always chasing and Hudson always seems to be one of the mentioned.
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 7, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
i know
i was just messin with you. lets hope he lands him before he turns into GS.
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
Kinda figured
Unfortunately, he probably has just as many DL stints as GS
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 7, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd be surprised if Hudson took a two-year deal
I wouldn’t be against sticking fatty at 2B next year so long as we had a major upgrade at 3B. Problem is, there aren’t a lot of good 3B on the market, whereas it may be easier to get a 2B or SS.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 6, 2008 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions
i would too
but KW is good at talking players into picking us, look at JD back before 05. i know we probably won’t land him, but i’d be pretty pumped if we pulled it off.
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
Shouldn't be too surprised at two year deal,
he’s had an injury riddled two seasons, not to mention, he’s had trouble staying healthy his whole career.
by El Duque's Raft on Oct 6, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Fatty just made 4.5 mil
Probably wants around that amount this year too. He’s a great bench player but too expensive.
www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com
I'd sign him again at that salary
He’s done everything the organization has asked of him and, IMHO, has proven his worth in filling in for Crede.
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
a glove man who can play the entire infield above average?
for 4.5? sign me up.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
Is Casey Blake a FA?
He could be a stopgap 3B…..
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions
As for Hudson...I'd be wary
He’ll be expensive in years and money….he’s got to be thinking 8M to 10M a year for contract that takes him to age 34 or 35. He’s not a base-stealer (if that’s important), and he’s coming off an injury. If I were sure his defense was still excellent, it would be more compelling but I’m not sure that’s the case.
Honestly, I think he’ll be too pricey for the Sox. I think they are likelier to trade for someone (Dye for Figgins?) and if that fails I think they’re likely to pick up a cheaper veteran stopgap for one of 2B and 3B and go with a organization guy (getz,frenchie,fields) at the other spot.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
guh
if dye goes for figgins there better be a quality arm coming back from laa.
by Craig Grebeck on Oct 7, 2008 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
To the best of my knowledge, Figgins is a FA (inked a 3 year deal Jan of 2006)
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
Thank you for clarifying
why the hell do people keep on posting about acquiring him? From my point of view, outside of Fields, we don’t have the chips to trade for any real talent. Besides, isn’t figgins an average to slightly below average ball player?
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
DB, directly ask the "people" if you want to know. larry is not my spokesperson.
Cabrera was not a FA, either, and we got him. Figgins fits a lot of needs (decent bat, multiple positions, speed, decent D),and he’s probably somewhat more, cost-wise, in the KW mold.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
because there's a distinct chance that the angels will not offer arbitration to him and thus he will be a FA.
and there are worst things in life than having chone figgins on your team. it’s not an awful thought. he doesn’t strike me as a player who is going to experience this precipitous decline that some are arguing. he adds great baserunning – one of the best in baseall at that – and very good defense. these are the types of things that don’t show up in your average statistical “hey his OPS sucks” type analysis and are easy to ridicule because speed and defense are often cliches that get thrown out without much thought or fact behind them. but figgins has the goods behind him. three year deal wouldn’t bother me much. we’ll see what the angels decide to do before i get worked up over whether it’s worth it or not to sign/acquire.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
i like him at second a lot better than i like him at third
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
We have a 2nd baseman. 2 or 3, actually. And one in the minors.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
So now you understand my question?
I was not aware that there was a significant chance of him not being offered arbitration and thus becoming a free agent. If you would have read my post fully instead of issuing a knee-jerk reaction, perhaps you wouldn’t have to get so worked up. ;)
And yes, that last sentence was to bust your balls as you so readily to do others, which, I might add, is usually amusing.
I can see why people would talk about Figgins if he’s a FA and the Sox don’t lose draft picks for signing him. I will add that I never posted that adding Figgins would be the worst possible thing for this team. Stop projecting ;) It has been my understanding that he’s an average to slightly below average ball player, but I haven’t looked up his win shares.
I understand that Figgins can run bases well. I wasn’t aware of his defensive prowess, thinking he was more of a utility player that was holding down the fort at a different position each year for the Angels until some prospect took over. My bad, I guess.
To sum it all up, I was asking for analysis and got what I asked for, plus some. Sorry that I hurt your feelings, WU, by not asking you directly. If the Sox sign Figgins as a FA and don’t lose draft picks, that’s titties. If they had to trade for him, I don’t know who they would be able to give up. Done and done.
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
If we're signing a stopgap we might as well just go after Grudz...
by Craig Grebeck on Oct 6, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions
you can do a lot worse than .299/.345/.399 for one year
by Craig Grebeck on Oct 7, 2008 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions
true
but he only played in half the games. and you have to wonder how long he can keep his mediocrity up. he’s gonna be 39 soon.
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
just a suggestion
i’d honestly rather go after someone who can be a long term fixture.
sort out the beckham/ramirez logjam when he gets up here.
by Craig Grebeck on Oct 7, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions
I know he's not available, but DeRosa would be an excellent fit
providing he can hit breaking balls and LHP (I haven’t dug into his stats).
I wouldn’t trade for him and I know he’s under contract for next season, just putting a “this would be a great player for the position” type of thing out there.
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
I think he's available in a trade.
He’s a solid overall hitter, both breaking balls and vs LHP (normal righty platoon split i’d say). Personally I want to trade him as he’s one of the cubs few tradeable assets going into next season, and the roster is just getting bogged down with expensive contracts. What is your opinion on DeRo vs. Swisher? Considering swish is signed for a few more years, he seems like he’d be more valuable, maybe medium-grade prospect or two to make up the difference? Neither Chicago team has much in the minors, but the Cubs do have a bit more than the Sox…just not too much to deal from really. Other Cubs trade pieces of actual value would be Marshall, but as he’s similar to Danks just not as good, I doubt he’d be worth as much to the Sox as he might to some other clubs; and Pie, with not a whole lot behind that until you get to Ceda and other power relief prospects.
by Canseco's Roid Party on Oct 7, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
are you really comparing
Marshall to Danks? Not even close buddy.
"term: pussy, user: larry, count: 11
term: pussy, user: all, count: 83" - wiz
by Where Triples Go to Die on Oct 7, 2008 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions
The Season
There will be plenty of time to discuss what changes need to be made for next year.
For now, I am proud of my White Sox. They fought all year in difficult circumstances. And did better than the Cubs and the media that said all year that this is the Cubs year.
Thanks for a great year and let’s work to do even better next year.
Just say no to Casey Blake and Hudson
Blake will be 36 next year and will be looking for one more good contract. I don’t think anything less than 2 years 16 million gets him here, and that is way too much. I would rather see that money go elsewhere.
Hudson would come expensive as well. I’m counting on KW seeing angles that non of us do (as usual) and finding cheaper solutions than these guys.
Why against Hudson?
I haven’t thought all things thru yet but my initial feeling is he would be a great fit or option.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
notice anything about his home/away splits while in arizona when he magically became an above average offensive player?
caveat emptor. there are a whole slew of red flags with bringing this guy to the south side. i haven’t looked at all of them in depth largely because there’s a whole lot of them. but what i’ve seen i haven’t liked much. not least of which is the contract he’d be asking for. thanks luis castillo!
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
Yeah I see some of them
I guess my real question would be how much? I think it helps that like Arizona he would be playing half his games in a + offensive park. I have to believe his obp and glove would be very welcome here. He seems to “like” the White Sox. In the past that has meant some minor concessions money wise, but there are always some crackhead gm out there to blow you away.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not all "offensive parks"
are the same. the cell is largely an offensive park because balls fly out of the stadium. however, doubles and triples are actually suppressed. chase, on the other hand, is a doubles/triples haven. now, there’s some noise in there that would need to be sorted out (one of the reasons i’m not going to start making proclamations about hudson). but, at first blush, it doesn’t appear that hudson is necessarily suited to the cell like he’s suited to chase field considering a good portion of his slugging comes from XBHs of the non-HR variety.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
ppreciate the in-depth lare
i was just throwin the name out there cuz he seems like one of the better FA 2B options and contract-wise looked like a solid fit to me. solid voice of reason you put up though
"Deserve's got nothin to do with it."
i've thought the same thing when i've looked at him in the past
cowley seems to think hudson is a lock to come to the south side though, so there’s that.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
done and done
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
I was thinking Blake would be cheaper than that
I would peg him to be around a .780 OPS player, which isn’t particularly good. I guess a lot depends on how much better his defense is than Fields. A 2 year deal would be OK…I don’t know about the 8M per.
And I’m not married to the “Blake Plan”, I don’t even particularly like the idea. But the Sox defense with Alexiei at SS next season could be pretty bad — he wasn’t great at 2B and Cabrera was very good at SS so there will be a downgrade. It makes me think the Sox will want a steadier glove at 3B than Fields.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Thanks for all the succinct knowledge, Cheat.
No wasted words from you.
Pitching and defense win baseball games in September and October.
2nd Base ///////// 3rd Base.
Pitching and defense win baseball games in September and October.
Soul Glo
Am I the only one who noticed that Griffey’s song for the last two games was Soul Glo? Almost made me like the guy.
Griffey's one of the funniest players in baseball
Unfortunately, he also happens to be one of the oldest.
Chip, chip, chip, chip.
Sox Machine
Fantastic season, beyond expectations indeed!
All I asked for pre-season was a more exciting team that the bag of wet fuck that was ’07. Well I got that, PLUS bonus games. Too many highlights to recount (emergence of Che, Q for examples), but Game 163 will NEVER be forgotten.
Thx to KennyGM , Ozzie, the players. Also thanks to Cheat (or whatever name he goes by now) for providing such a great site.
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
hahaha "bag of wet fuck." hahahahahahahahaha, yep, that sounds about right!
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions
You really like this Chiburb guy, don't you?
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
meh. he's ok. 'specially without all that sand in his vag.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions
One of the best parts about this season is
The White Sox added an identity to the team. I know it sounds superficial, but I think that will help with the offseason pickups. The White Sox looked like a close knit family this year, and if I was a pro I would want to be part of that group.
Cheat, thank you for keeping this going all year.
For awhile I was wondering if you had the stomach to keep going and though you would flame out ala Bat-Girl. It seems once you cleaned house it renewed your dedication and enthusiasm for the site (not that your Sox passion ever waned, but your commitment to the site did), and we are all the better for it.
Thanks again for giving us (me) the forum to connect with other idiots like me. This is approximately the 3rd best thing that awaits me every day, and I appreciate your work.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
viagra and soul glo being 1 and 2?
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
#1: Checking the obits and not seeing his name.
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
Always nice to hear from the nursing home inhabitants.
Knowing I am not the oldest on this site is comforting, indeed. You OPOS.
Have fun with your kid next month.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
#2: Styling the tuft of chest hair that strategically peeks out of his shirt.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
I am thrilled from the past season.
As one who thought they could be competitive coming into the season they exceeded my expectations. They added some good young players and have a solid starting point. Thank you Cheat and other mods for the forum.
Now begins or shortly after the complete season the time for the truly special on SSS. Any one want to take bets on who will be the first to “know” roster construction by the end of November?
Another thing, I think this season cemented KW and Ozzie as 2 of the Top 10 in their respective professions. Thank you for not listening KW and going for it this year.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
off-season
when i can actually follow whats going on the board here without having to read through game threads…. i could never keep up with that shit. cant wait to see what KW has in store and cant wait for our community projections to be way off.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
Did anyone see that Griffey catch last night? Yeeeehaw!!! Get the man an extended contract - we need a center fielder and Griff is our man for the future!!!!!!
General Soreness – MVP of the 2015 World Series.
Mark it, bitches!
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
I don't think they give MVPs to the third base coach, but I suppose it could happen
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
clearly.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Any chance Missile is able to attract other Cubans here?
Pitching and defense win baseball games in September and October.
Yep, I'm expecting a big underground pipeline now.
But it’s Count who drives that bus, not Che. (CHE!)
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
white sox season in review from fangraphs
brings up some interesting points re: strength of schedule etc.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/season-in-review-chicago-white-sox
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
we got boned there a bit, did we not?
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
Outstanding season...
all the way around. I feel really good about this season despite the fact that the last important game the Sox played was a loss.
And no, Keith, I haven’t forgotten our bet. I’ll get to that ASAP.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 10:23 AM CDT reply actions
Today's Sun-Times
Is a pretty good summary of how awful their Sox coverage has been.
It was a good season.
And now, for the offseason.
One thing I hope that Ken Williams learned this year was the importance of defense. Watching the Sox play the Rays was a study in contrasts. They had guys who could catch the ball, and the Sox did not. Having an outfield with three guys who just can’t get to the ball isn’t acceptable, and having a good defense will only make guys like Danks, Floyd, and Buehrle that much better.
So, here’s what I think the Sox should do -
1. Move Jermaine Dye. Considering his no-trade clause, a reliever and a “B” prospect should do nicely. Move Swisher to right, put Anderson in center. If they want to keep DeWayne Wise as a fourth outfielder, that would be fine.
2. Pick up an infielder. Let Cabrera walk, get someone with a good glove to play one of the infield positions (preferably someone who knows how to draw the occasional walk). Mix and match Ramirez, Uribe, and Getz for the other two infield positions. It doesn’t have to be someone great, just someone who can really field the position. I don’t know what the team plans to do with Josh Fields, but I don’t see him being in the picture much next season.
3. I’d like the Sox to try to sign a front-line starting pitcher, but I don’t know how realistic that is. Sabathia’s probably out of reach, as is Derek Lowe. Maybe Ben Sheets, injury risk and all?
4. Bring in a backup catcher who can really throw the baseball. The Sox are stuck with Pierzynski, but if the Sox are going to have a staff that can’t keep runners close, they need at least one catcher who can potentially throw out a baserunner or two. I don’t care if he can’t hit a lick, but Toby Hall isn’t the answer to any question.
I actually think the bullpen will sort itself out. I think Richard and Russell are just about ready to step into full-time bullpen roles, and if the Sox get a reliever for Dye, that should cover it. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Scott Linebrink will be useful over the last three years of his contract.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions
I don't know how much of an obstacle it is.
And not knowing which six teams it is, it’s hard to say for sure.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
a six team NTC is rarely an obstacle to anything. zero effect on his trade value.
he’s essentially a one year rental at a rather reasonable rate. limiting the market by six teams means nada.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
If the sox trade dye for a reliever and a B prospect I will puke.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think an acceptable return for Dye would be?
I don’t think the Sox can afford to keep him on the roster, at least the way it’s currently made up. They can’t afford a lineup with three or four designated hitters any more.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Certainly not that
A reliever??? Dye makes about 12 million next year with a 12 mill option in 2010 (1 mill buyout). Id say that is very valuable today.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"mutual" option
depends upon where he goes whether that’s considered value.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
Of course it has to be the right situation
I don’t mean to imply he is the greatest thing since slice bread. But a close to .900 ops for 12 mill?
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what i mean is, that option may not be seen as value by some teams because they think JD won't stay. or there'd be a high level of concern that he wouldn't stay.
let’s be honest. if JD has a great year again next year (something in the .850ish OPS or higher), he’d be smart to decline the mutual option and get one last payday via a multi-year deal.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
ohhhh
I didn’t get the mutual part before. Yes that changes things a bit. Another .850 year he definitely opts out unless he is with the White Sox (where its 50/50)
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's sort of a catch 22.
you want JD because you think he’ll hit well in 2009, right? but if he does that, he’ll probably decline the option. so i think lots of teams would just view his contract as a one year deal with the million buyout tacked on. still very reasonable. and lots of teams – 20+? – would have interest in that.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
I really wasn't thinking...
of getting value for Dye, more of moving him off the roster. The Sox simply don’t have room for Quentin, Dye, Swisher, Thome, and Konerko. One of them needs to go.
A couple of weeks ago, I was thinking that maybe the Sox should trade Carlos Quentin, as his trade value will likely never be higher. I still think that might be a good idea (although larry had a good point that maybe teams would be leery of trading for him after his broken wrist), but I don’t think the Sox will move him.
Thome isn’t going anywhere, and neither is Konerko. I’d be against trading Swisher at this point, as I think he’ll bounce back next year, and his trade value has got to be pretty low at the moment. That leaves Dye.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah. let's trade away assets and not get value. real smart.
i always forget that KW is a moron. silly me.
come on, jer.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
Honestly, I'm not sure...
what would be a good return for Dye right now. I was just throwing something out there. If the Sox can get more than a reliever and a prospect, I’d be thrilled.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
Dye's worth a decent return at $12M for a year, I'd think.
Don’t know exactly what, but I’d think maybe a blocked 3B or 2B prospect able to give you league average production could come back if you’re willing to run with somebody like that (maybe like a Brandon Wood or slightly lower but similar type of guy?) Or an actual plus-reliever, like a good setup guy or top 7th inning guy. But I don’t think that’s what you’d want. I would also consider maybe an injury-prone but frontline-potential pitcher, although probably not in a trade, some of these guys should be on the market.
by Canseco's Roid Party on Oct 7, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Is there ever anyone that you think they SHOULD keep?
You do realize they will be playing to compete again next year right? Everything can’t always be about this slow deliberate building you seem to prefer. I am not against trading players but you almost ALWAYS should be trying to get value. They didn’t win 60 games and are just trying to clear payroll man.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, then...
hold out for more. I’m not married to the idea of trading Dye for a reliever and a prospect. But he should be moved one way or the other. Holding onto him doesn’t make much sense to me.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Depends on if you can move your fav person Konerko
Which might actually be possible this time.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see that happening.
Konerko’s a five-and-ten guy, and anyway, if you’re talking about selling for value, Konerko’s value is lower than Dye’s at this point. The Sox might as well keep him around.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
You might be right
But he would approve of a LA trade and there is a decent chance they won’t sign Tex. You might make it work with them even off of Paulie’s down year.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would have thought a guy who has apparently seen his prediction about the decline of PK come true
would want to extricate himself from a contract like paulie’s. what does an OPS+ trend chart of 134, 116, 103 say to someone like you jer?
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
It says...
that the last two years of his contract are likely to be brutal.
But I’m trying to be realistic. Ken Williams isn’t going to trade him for salary relief. Even if he wanted to, Konerko’s still a fan favorite. And the Sox aren’t the kind of team to send along cash in order to get value in return when they trade veterans.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
fan favorite to who(m?)?
Sox fans aren’t stupid, and 134, 116, 103 speak for themselves.
Joe Morgan would be aghast at your inconsistency,
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
I was at the game a week ago.
I still saw lots and lots of Konerko jerseys. If the Sox dump him for nothing (especially after he was pretty good in August/September), Williams would take a lot of heat.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
there will be lots and lots of konerko jerseys in the stands long after he's gone...
because once you drop dough on a jersey (likely prior to or immediately following the world series win) you wear it.
"well, i'm sure i'd feel much worse if i weren't under such heavy sedation."
by Toonderstrook on Oct 7, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah. what other jerseys did you see, jer?
perhaps some bo jackson ones? daubach? rowand? mccarthy? this was just my section yesterday.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
You and Mom went to the game?
WTF? I thought she was money?
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
as far as i know, she wasn't there. haven't talked to her, though.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
Therein lies the problem.
No Mom = no W.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
my sis is still sporting her mackowiak jersey, i'm sure.
yikes.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
i saw a guy on sunday
wearing a black sox jersey with “bartman 03” on the back. admittedly, i chuckled, but, really, that’s a pretty sad way to spend your money.
Yesterday...
there was a guy wearing a Takatsu jersey. I’d wear a plain black sweatshirt before pulling the black Takatsu jersey outta the mothballs!
Welcome to Nowhere. How did the treadmill get us here?
by defensive indifference on Oct 7, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, from 3 years ago. This ain't the Cubs, we know
falling production when we see it. Not saying he couldn’t bounce back from an unlucky injury-filled year (see Dye), but am saying they/we wouldn’t torch the place if he were dealt to LA to fill a need here.
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
And I'm saying...
that the Sox won’t get anything back if they trade Konerko now, certainly not unless they send a lot of money with him (which they won’t do). Trading Konerko would be to open a logjam at 1B/DH and move salary. And Ken Williams won’t do that, for a lot of reasons.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Carlos Lee trade?
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
Carlos Lee...
was worth more than Paul Konerko currently is.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Big surprise that you would say that.
You’d have said that in 2005. (I agree with the current assessment.)
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
Sure I would.
there’s not much controversial about that statement.
Carlos Lee was entering his age-29 sesaon and coming off a 127 OPS+ year.
Paul Konerko is entering his age-34 season and just posted a 103 OPS+.
The White Sox got two mediocre players and two non-prospects for Lee. What could they get for Konerko right now?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
who cares?
if he doesn’t project to add anything to the team from here on out, then just using a roster space costs more to the team’s success than his contract. the Sox can probably score a somewhat useful player for him since Paulie can probably post a .270/.350/.470 line next year.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
Please. Were you not reading the site?
Lots of pissed off folks. And Frank had been a pain in the ass (and injured) for longer than a summer.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
People showed up at the park the next year
Bought tickets, merchandise, watched the games.
A couple fans complaining on SSS does not affect the business.
It was a good season.
it doesn't really matter.
attendance went up post-frank. in 2006, holdover from world series. in 2007, holdover from 90-win shoulda coulda woulda made the playoffs season. in 2008, less than ‘06 or ’07 but still more than ’05. next year will be big attendance barring a fire sale, which ain’t gonna happen.
winning makes fans go to the ballpark and buy merch, not holding on to aging, unproductive players.
"well, i'm sure i'd feel much worse if i weren't under such heavy sedation."
by Toonderstrook on Oct 7, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't think konerko is tradeable
Sadly. He’s the one really bad contract the Sox have (linebrink is annoying for the length but the money isn’t a constraint).
On the plus side, I think PK can put up another 116 to 120 OPS+ season in 2009. I hope.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions
i think he can do a .270/.350/.470 year
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
yeah. a reliever? lol.
never trade real players for relievers not named mariano rivera, joe nathan, or something in that top echelon. relievers = fungible.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
Well, again,,,
what would be an acceptable return for Dye at this point? I was trying to be realistic. A mediocre second baseman?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
A better question is why you think Dye's value is so low?
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lots of variables in that one, jer.
are we talking a jon garland-esque deal where the sox are looking for basically a short-term rental at a need position? then you’d want a roughly comparable player. are the sox looking longer term? then an average second baseman who is cost-controlled for, let’s say, three years or something makes sense. however, basically any reliever who would be availabe is not appropriate. add up the wins you’re trading away and get that much back, at least.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
Personally...
I’d like to see the Sox get at least one player back who was born in the ‘80s. I’d rather have someone who isn’t quite as good, but who will be around for a few years, than another one-year rental. But I could see Ken Williams thinking differently, and if he brings in, say, a good starting pitcher on the last year of his contract for Dye, I’d be happy.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
Why get rid of Dye?
He had a great year.
I’d move Thome or Konerko if I could…but be realistic – all three will be here next year. Add speed and situational hitting via CF and 2B. Move Ramirez to SS.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Oct 7, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
i think it's quite realistic JD is gone.
he’s the sox’ primary trade bait. he’d be perfect for a garland-cabrera esque deal whereby the sox trade from their “depth” to get someone else’s depth.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
I'd rather move JD...
For a starter. I’m at work and really don’t want to go research which teams have a surplus of starting pitching, but it seems like a JD-for-starter deal could be a possibility, kind of a reverse Garland trade but with a better pitcher involved. Any ideas for this one?
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 7, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions
Then what do you do with Swisher?
Sit him on the bench? Sell low on him?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions
odds JD, PK, and JT all stay similarly healthy next year?
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
So you'd be okay...
with the Sox breaking camp next spring with Quentin/Anderson/Dye in the outfield, and Swisher on the bench?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
I guess you move Dye
if you can. But, KW loves him some Dye.
Them move Q! to RF and Swish to LF. What to do in CF….Anderson? I hope not, not everyday. We could sign Punto and put him in CF? he is a grinder….(I am kidding)
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Oct 7, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Yikes!
Looking over the FA for OF I will go ahead a upgrade’s value just a tic. Brutal! Dunn, Bradley and blah…
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
??
and upgrade Dye’s value just a tic.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know
maybe Dye could bring back an OF’er that could play CF. Otherwise Figgins in CF? Kotsay – his wife is hot.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Oct 7, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Kotsay can't stay healthy, didn't hit that well for the A's in 2007, and is old
Yes, you can do much better than that.
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
who says swisher is on the bench?
good lord, anderson over him? i don’t see that happening.
in a vaccum of not knowing what other moves would be made, if any, i don’t have much issue with the sox not getting rid of anyone from that group because i’m highly skeptical – just like i was this year – of all three of those staying healthy (heck, considering his history, should i expect quentin to stay healthy, too?). i think this year is simply a prelude of the injury issues for PK that generally hit players like him at this age. thome always will have that back concern and other issues for sluggers of his age (sox did a great job with him this year – kudos once again to herm). JD is getting to that age where injuries become a bit more prevalent, too. i don’t mind the insurance especially at that rate. ideally you trade him. but i think one needs to consider what other moves are made.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
So...
you’d be okay with Swisher back in center? Swisher’s a decent outfielder (better than he was in Oakland), but man, it’s a lot of ground he needs cover out there.
I really think that Dye’s a DH at this point, and if you’re going to put him in right field, you need an above-average center fielder.
It really stinks that the upper levels of the Sox minor-league system are so barren. The Sox don’t even have a replacement-level player to fall back on.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
didn't you say that Dye was finished in RF before this season?
seems to me (without stats) he had a pretty good year in the field after a crappy one in ’07. Maybe it has more to do with his health than age?
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
You really think that Dye is good in the outfield?
It looks like he’s running in slow-motion out there. He’s doing his best, but his best just isn’t very good any more.
And as highly-touted defensively as Carlos Quentin was when he came in, he looked pretty shaky, too.
I can’t find the numbers, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Sox led the league in triples allowed this year.
Both Dye and Quentin have good throwing arms, but that’s about all I can say for their defensive prowess out there
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
jerry doesn't like fielding stats. so don't try to argue with him about defense.
i will note for your own edification that dye bounced back from a rather putrid year last year to post a below average year, basically in line with his 2006. he was -7 in dewan’s system, which is quite close to last amongst RFs. however, RFers were overall pretty good this year so, in an usual year, he likely would not be ranked quite as low. he’s still easily in the lower third at his position.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
He was decent in pretty much all fielding metrics this year
BUT I don’t know or think the Sox should press their luck.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
"term: pussy, user: larry, count: 11
term: pussy, user: all, count: 83" - wiz
by Where Triples Go to Die on Oct 7, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
One year of OF that can produce an OPS of .850+ is valuable
He can hit and there’s no long term commitment. Yes, I think they can get something like a league average 2B for him. That’s not bad.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
jre u are better than this.
We have an extremely aggressive GM… If you think he is going to move Jermaine you are nuts. He is the steadiest offensive player we have. We will let O’Crab walk if we can not upgrade 2nd base. Brian Roberts is the perfect fit for this team. If there is a big fish out there it’s Roberts. We don’t need a premiere CF, we need a 3rd baseman. I can live with BA in cf as long as he is batting 8 or 9. We could use a front of the rotation horse but that need is not imminent with the emergence of Richard (not saying he is a #1 but could be our 4th starter). I agree we need a back up catcher. Vazquez would make an overpriced 5th starter so if we can move him then by all means get what you can.
"term: pussy, user: larry, count: 11
term: pussy, user: all, count: 83" - wiz
by Where Triples Go to Die on Oct 7, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
i think if we've learned anything around here, it's that none of us are better than anything.
"well, i'm sure i'd feel much worse if i weren't under such heavy sedation."
by Toonderstrook on Oct 7, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
I just don’t understand why everyone wants to trade Dye? We need to trade Thome, another bad series, UNCLUTCH no matter what anyone says. Then we can rotate PK and Dye in the DH spot so Swish would still have a spot on this team. I mean could Thomer have been any more worthless in the playoffs? I would pick up Griffey’s option before I brought that unclutch sack of shit back.
"term: pussy, user: larry, count: 11
term: pussy, user: all, count: 83" - wiz
by Where Triples Go to Die on Oct 7, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
aww. poor skanberg...
no Trophinea this year.
But thanks for a great read all season, Carl!!!!
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
Hey! did you notice they're already arguing roster construction?
oh boy! the off season has started!
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
wasting no time at all....as though the season is just a prelude to the REAL discussion!
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions
OK, smart guys.
Probability GS is on the Chicago White Sox next year.
Pitching and defense win baseball games in September and October.
I would hope no more than 15 - 20.
Pitching and defense win baseball games in September and October.
5 responses.
Average is ~~ 4.68468%.
Pitching and defense win baseball games in September and October.
GS really has no place on this team
I’d say maybe 5%, and that’s only if he accepts being a backup for the last few years of his career.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 7, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
ZERO
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
before everyone goes answering with ZERO....
let us consider august 1st, when most of us argued that the probability of him starting in CF was ZERO.
KW works in mysterious ways….I don’t know that he is done with Griff yet.
What are the chances that Thome gets the boot and Griff becomes DH in ’09?
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Okay minus Thome gone
ZERO
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, see, i don't follow all the contract shit really....so i don't know how bound we are to anyone.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
i'm just speculating on the premise that griff is absolutely worthless in the field, and hopefully KW finally realizes that much....so if he had a boner for him and wanted to keep him, DH would be the only real "position" for him....
don’t get me wrong – i don’t want thome to go anywhere….just wondering if there was any possibility that he would.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
no.
the only scenario i can envision where he returns is if the sox offer him arbitration (questionable in the first place) and griffey doesn’t find anyone else to take him for what he could get or better in arbitration and he accepts arbitration.
and i’m someone who certainly thought the opposite on the whole griffey playing center probability thing.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
ok. well that consoles me a bit.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
shut your pi hole
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
by Chiburb on Oct 7, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Season
Great season that exceeded even my far above average (for SSS at least) expectations.
I think 3B is Fields’ to lose and should be. I think if you have a chance to have a cheap average or even slightly below average 3B (offense and defense combined) for the next 4 years you simply have to completely explore that option.
However I agree we have to improve our deffense with OC gone. I like Mark Ellis if his medical reports from his offseason surgery are good. Because of the surgery, he will likely be able to be signed short term as we await the arrival of Beckham.
I’d be OK with trading JD as long as we get value in return. I’m also Ok with leaving the outfield as Q, Swish, Dye. And leaving Paulie and Thome where they are. Then in 2010 either JD or Thome goes with Paulie moving to DH and Swish to 1B.
My greatest concern though may be whether Alexei can effectively play SS. His advanced fielding metrics have been pretty bad at 2B.
By the way, I like the idea of trading JD for Adrian Beltre, who according to at least one fielding metric saved the most runs with his glove in all of baseball. His ballpark and fielding prowess make him underated even with his big contract. He is one guy that I would push Fields aside for.
I think we ought to call Thome and Konerko the "Cholesterol Brothers" because of the way they clog the bases.
So,
Fields at 3B, Alexei at SS, Getz at 2B, Konerko at 1B, Swish in LF, Anderson in CF, Q! in RF, AJ at C, and JT at DH.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Oct 7, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
agree with it all, especially the Alexei at SS part...
everyone talks like it’s a given he’ll slide over just fine, but I’m not so sure either.
Has there ever been a case of a starting ML player going to the AFL to try a new position?
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
Not really trying a new position
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes it is. If Cuba is equal (or so) to AA, then it's as new a position to him as 2B
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
not understanding your logic
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Il faut d’abord durer.
by CU Adam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do people really think Fields will be at 3B?
Cowley this morning implied he was essentially out of the Sox plans for 3B because they were so done on his glove. I don’t think Fields will be on the major league roster starting 2009.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
why in the world would you cite Cowley as authoritative?
at least we know who his reader is!
Trophinea, Trophinea, I have sought thee, sung thee, dreamed thee Trophinea. And thy name is like a prayer an angel whispers, Tophinea... Trophinea.
he was right about uribe. why question him?
i’d wait to see what his glove looks like after an(other) offseason of work. it’s not like fields doesn’t know this is an issue, after all.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
i can't get this to format correctly. but i imagine most of us can get past the mess and figure it out. and can also figure out a rather easy way to upgrade the team's production.
Pos Players Avg OBP Slg OPS
1 Cabrera (128 G), Swisher (29 G) . .274 .339 .372 .711
2 Pierzynski (83 G), Cabrera (32 G) . .258 .301 .393 .694
3 Quentin (93 G), Thome (37 G), Dye (33 G) .265 .366 .512 .878
4 Dye (78 G), Konerko (48 G), Thome (35 G) .263 .346 .501 .846
5 Thome (67 G), Dye (34 G), Konerko (32 G) .281 .359 .548 .907
6 Konerko (41 G), Pierzynski (30 G), Crede (28 G) .233 .313 .384 .697
7 Swisher (56 G), Ramirez (40 G), Crede (20 G) .249 .328 .445 .773
8 Crede (41 G), Ramirez (31 G), Swisher (27 G) .268 .323 .491 .814
9 Uribe (70 G), Hall (28 G), Ramirez (26 G) .270 .311 .391 .703
Total .263 .332 .448 .780
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
What, shuffle the lineup around?
I am a bit worried that Alexei Ramirez will be the leadoff hitter next year.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Odds are strong the "leadoff hitter" isn't on the roster
Someone will be brought in for 3B or 2B or CF that will hit leadoff.
You should be more worried that KW will pay an high, high price to acquire Chone Figgins or someone Figginsesque.
by hitlesswonder on Oct 7, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I see a push for Crisp
now.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Oct 7, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Nope. Figgins.
You see his rag arm in CF? His hitting is not enough of an upgrade over BA or Swish.
Please, no Crisp. Figgins is target #1, I’d bet. I’d pass on Sheets, too – why mess with that injury history?
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
we seem to have good luck with bringing in guys
and having them stay healthy. dye was injured all the time before we got him..
Pitchers?
Matty and DocOc, yes. Liney, no. Floyd/Danks were never hurt. Pitchers are fragile. Not for the moeny he probably wants.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
Agreed
Do we really want five years of worrying every time Sheets takes the mound? I think not.
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 7, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
five years?
i doubt there are any crackpot GMs left that will offer him more than three guaranteed years.
clearly what the sox lack is more cowbell.
Are we going to start talking about acquiring a player like Chone Figgins
Or are we going to acquire THE Chone Figgins?
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 7, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
That would be scary.
Figgins can draw a walk, unlike Ramirez, but he had a scary drop in power this year, and he’s reaching the age where his speed won’t help him.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I mean that...
his speed will start to decline, if it hasn’t started declining already.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Declining from where, though? And how much?
I’d take a bit of a decline from whence he came vs. what we have, if the price is right. IF the price is right would you rather have Fields or Figgins at 3B?
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
I don't know.
Figgins I can see declining rapidly.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Not so important as a 3B. I can see it if the plan is for him to spell (someone) in CF.
I can’t speak to his injury history but he seems less injury prone than Pods or Owens (our former speed merchants).
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
I wouldn't mind Figgins at 3B
and it would be icing on the cake if they brought in Ellis at 2B (I think he resigns with Oakland) and trade Dye for a young CF or something.
As I’ve stated previously (I think), it would be nice to sign a “B” FAs or two since they don’t cost the Sox high draft picks. Trading Dye for a piece or two would be nice as well, but I’d be willing to go into 2009 with Swish in CF, Quentin in LF, and Dye in RF again with Che at SS or 2B, Uribe at 2B or on the bench, etc. etc.
this isn't hard. you live in a port city. and you're a slut. do the math. -larry
mark ellis = suck.
"well, i'm sure i'd feel much worse if i weren't under such heavy sedation."
by Toonderstrook on Oct 7, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry guys, my sh*t doesn't work in the Playoffs either.
Over the last six seasons I’ve attended 8-10 games a year and seen them lose exactly once before last night. It’s a lot more fun walking down those endless ramps with Sweet Home Chicago playing and a win under the belt. C’est la vie.
We’ll get ’em next year!
Welcome to Nowhere. How did the treadmill get us here?
by defensive indifference on Oct 7, 2008 12:03 PM CDT reply actions
OT: John Lackey is an asshole
“We are a better team than they are,” Lackey said. “The last two days, we shouldn’t have given up anything. They scored three runs on a pop fly that was called a hit, which was a joke. They scored on a broken-bat ground ball and a fly ball that anywhere else in America is an out, and he’s fist-pumping on second base like he did something great.”
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
"well, i'm sure i'd feel much worse if i weren't under such heavy sedation."
by Toonderstrook on Oct 7, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously
I wonder if the Angels were better than the Red Sox the last 300 times they lost to them in the playoffs?
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 7, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder if he'd pout as he threw someone through the wall.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Oct 7, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Rec'd.
Wonder if they were better than us in 2005, really. I wonder.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
That's actually not sour grapes.
“Sour Grapes” is not the same as being a sore loser.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Oct 7, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
He was yelling and grimacing last night with his IF's errors.
Bad form to show up your teammates on national television.
No team can match the White Sox combination of power, pitching and experience. Certainly not the Rays. White Sox in 5
I'm guessing he was also showing his weird teeth and flobbity neck.
Chip, chip, chip, chip.
Sox Machine
bad form for him to ever show his mug in any form on national television. yikes.
"well, i'm sure i'd feel much worse if i weren't under such heavy sedation."
by Toonderstrook on Oct 7, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did anybody see in game one...
When Scoscia went to take him out and Lackey just stares at him for about five seconds before loudly dropping an F-bomb?
Chicago White Sox Examiner — Your what hurts?
by UribeAuction on Oct 7, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
so then your point mr. lackey
is that even with all things said you still couldn’t win ? fuck you you ugly donkey fuck
this guy's got some great ideas for next year
I agree with you Joe on how the Sox need to get faster and younger. However, they shouldn’t get rid of them without some value back. Trade Javy, OC, and Thome to Padres for Peavy. If he’s healthy, he will be good. Secondly, trade Crede and Griffey to Angels for Figgins. He’s fast and still young. Trade PK and Uribe to Arizona for Hudson. That would be a good offseason. Plus, the Sox could take chance on Fukudome, now that Cubs are done with them, he could play Center, who knows, he could be better in AL, like Josh Hamilton.
Posted by: Jason | Oct 6, 2008 7:46:24 PM