Sox Sell Shockingly Low on Swisher
by The Cheat on Nov 14, 2008 12:31 AM CST
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PrintAs a not-so-objective observer, it's hard to know what to say following the White Sox trade of Nick Swisher for Wilson Betemit! (exclamation point required for centerpiece of franchise-changing trade) and a pair of uninspiring minor league arms. Because, on balance, the Sox didn't get the best player in the deal, didn't get anyone with high upside in return, and didn't get much in the way of salary relief.
No, this trade was all about getting rid of the strong personality of Swisher. It wasn't about baseball skill, or money, or the future. It was only about getting rid of a perceived problem for the sake of no longer having to deal with said problem.
There are whispers that Swisher rubbed much of the coaching staff and some of his teammates the wrong way with his outspoken behavior, and, most of all, his pouting when his season turned south. Now that he's no longer a member of the organization, I'm sure there will be plenty of leaks about him being an uncoachable, hard-partying, distraction in the clubhouse.
And even if all of those things are true, this is still a bad trade. The Sox simply didn't get any value in return.
Let's use their acquisition of Javier Vazquez as an example. Vazquez demanded a trade, as was his right, putting the D'backs out over a barrel. They had to trade him, and other teams knew it. Yet the Sox were still willing to part with their most dynamic position prospect in the last decade along with a couple of valuable-yet-replaceable spare parts. Where is our Chris Young-like player in return? It's not like the Yankees are completely devoid of young, unproven, high-upside players on the farm.
It's not Jeff Marquez, the former supplemental first rounder is a combination of Lance Broadway and Jon Garland with some Nick Massett thrown in for good measure. His hit rate and strikeout rate as he progressed through the minors are not indicative of future major league success. But he's having a good run in the Arizona Fall League, so I'm sure we can just ignore the rest of his minor league numbers.
LVL H/9 K/9 A 8.9 6.9 A+ 10.0 8.3 AA 9.4 5.6 AAA 10.4 3.7
And Nunez isn't even worth discussing, because the Sox added essentially the same player in the deal, a AA reliever with good numbers. That seems like a one-for-one swap in itself.
By default, Betemit is the Sox haul for Swisher. And Gio Gonzalez. And Ryan Sweeney. And Fautino De Los Santos.
Betemit was a former top-prospect in the Atlanta system who has been varying degrees of suck since he left the peach state. He's been particularly terrible in the American League, posting a .286 OBP and an 89/12 K/BB ratio in a year and a half in the league. He's like Juan Uribe without the plus defense. Oh, and he'll be competing for a starting job at 3rd, and possibly second.
It's hard to believe this is the best the Sox could get in return for Swisher. And if this was the best they could get on the eve of free agency, shouldn't the GM stand pat until the landscape changes? There's just no way can I can look at this and call it a good trade.
* * * * *
11 months ago when the Sox first acquired Nick Swisher from the A's, I closed my trade recap with the following sentence.
Overall, the Sox are a better team than they were yesterday. But they're still an organization adrift in mediocrity with no concrete plan to once again reach the shore of excellence.
A year later, a division title later, and it's even harder to understand the direction the organization is taking with this move.
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Robothal weighs in
I think Rosenthal is sort of right
I think Vaquez is gone as well. But I don’t think the Sox are paring money to go after Hudson. As someone pointed out (you?Jim?) the Sox would have saved more by trading Dye and he could have brought a similar package. I think it’s just about shedding unwanted personnel, not acquiring a specific target.
I think, per Rosenthal, the Sox will not go young at 2B,CF, and 3B. I’m pretty sure Betemit will start at 3B.
In a way, the Sox moves are easy to predict. At the end of last season Swisher and Fields were on the bench and Vazquez was hung out to dry in the media. Actions speak louder than words, and I think we should all be able to guess the Sox plans for the remaining 2 guys on that list.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
if the something bigger is hudson, pierre, or figgins, color me unimpressed.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 5:49 AM CST up reply actions
from this article
“Dodgers center fielder Juan Pierre could be another option if the Dodgers pay a sizable percentage of the $28.5 million he is owed over the next three seasons.”
HOLY SHIT.
by RollingWave on Nov 14, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
yes yes and yes
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
one of my first thoughts yesterday was, "why didn't we just throw Ho-Ram to the Yankees too?"
however, since that did not happen, i am still ok with the idea of taking him out back and shooting him.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
i would have thought this was the perfect deal to dump macdougal into.
you know, the yankees could have thrown the sox a bone instead of adding an additional kick in the balls by prising a good relief prospect. of course, that would mean cashman is dumb.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
and that kw doesn't get off on testing his devotees.
to think – most of us were finally forgiving him for GS.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Betemit is fine as a backup. Maybe, an acceptable starting 3b.
However, if neither of these 2 pitchers turn out to be very good then the Sox got fleeced because surely some team would have given up 1 good player for Swisher.
Betemit
is not a acceptable everyday 2B with his glove, unless he lose about 50 pounds
\
by RollingWave on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
i hate when a move raises more questions than it answers. something has to be going on, right? a precursor to a much larger deal?
it’s difficult to envision the scenario in which this sets up a bigger impact trade.
Cashing checks and having sex.
so, going to contact that depaul student?
go into detail of the Critical Thinking® skills that clearly had swish just moving from center?
I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.
That post
originally finished with a paragraph which started something like this “The Sox may end up trading Swisher. Dye may be here on Opening Day.”
I clipped it because I couldnt’ really finish teh thought the way I liked, and my point was made without the final paragraph.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
i wonder if carl has anything to say about this...
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
joe cowley, your pulitzer is waiting.
It was an easy Kool-Aid to drink in April, when Nick Swisher was bringing a solid resume from Oakland and giving the White Sox a new-look, high-on-base-percentage mentality atop their lineup.
By September, the Sox were trying to find a dark corner in which to regurgitate that ‘’Dirty 30’’ juice they all had taken big gulps of.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
If we would have gotten Melky Or Radner,
Then I’d be happy. There is still a lot of time until opening day, but i can feel my interest in the White Sox waning. It is really funny, as someone else pointed out, that they just got $.50 on the dollar for their 2008 pitch man. I think about their stupid commercials. With Swish doing the worm, and shooting the guns, and Hawk narrating. I wonder if Thome started dusting off his first baseman’s mitt, since he has to be considered Konerko’s backup now. Who’s will spell our corner outfielders? Wise? What are the odds that Pauly and JD make it through the year with no injuries.?
I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.
no way the season starts with thome as the plan at first if konerko goes down.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 6:05 AM CST up reply actions
Fields?
I’d think Fields or Betimet get the spot if Konerko gets hurt. If it’s a long term thing they make a trade / sign a AAAA player.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions
I've thought of that... but
You see how Dye bends when he’s in the outfield – I can’t imagine him trying to scoop one out of the dirt at first. So even though I like the idea, can’t envision it happening.
Don't look back because we are going forward!
btb says the sox haul for swisher full of promise...to suck.
Yankees bought low on Nick Swisher
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
"Adrift in mediocrity"?
Take issue with the trade, if you will, but a division championship this year, the maturation of Q and Che, and Danks and Floyd blossoming mean that KW isn’t a total idiot. Even our minor league system is looking better than last year and is giving some signs of not being the worst in MLB.
Does anyone have any patience at all? Must everything be immediately trashed/exalted, or can we give this some time? Fer Chrissakes. It’s November. Not time to make sweeping generalizations about the “organization” which exceeded all (except WTGTD’s) expectations this year.
Whoosh!
"Adrift in mediocrity"
The comment was from a year ago.
Do you like the trade, WU?
Sox in 2009!
I know it's an old quote that was brought to present relevance.
I am withholding judgment right now. Initially it looks like we could’ve gotten more, thought Swish did much on the field to diminish his value (and if his clubhouse behavior was as is being reported – and it might be – he may have pulled a Manny to get out of Dodge, and I don’t see that the Red Sox got as much value back as perhaps was expected when they got rid of Manny).
So I’m punting right now. I’m not screaming about it one way or the other – he was on our bench, he wasn’t getting off it any time soon, and it seems the poor trade was when we acquired him. Spilt milk. Like a trade when you cut your losses, it hurts but you move on, right?
Whoosh!
flagged.
for equating a white sox trade with squeezing another commission out of the mandelbaums.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 6:51 AM CST up reply actions
I am fee-based and do not accept commissions.
Unlike you, I eat what I kill in the context of an ongoing relationship. DB.
Whoosh!
Good Gosh
Me and Winning Ugly agree….. the crime was the trade last year not this one. Miracles do happen!
Kenwo4life=ratings
Last year's trade was not a crime
We have picked that trade apart at length. Its seems sheik for folks to say that but its simply not true.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
If those who are castigating the trade now are ticked we didn't get enough in return
it’s because of 3 reasons:
1. What we gave away last year (e.g. Keith Law analysis).
2. What we got in return (scrubs).
3. Why we sold low (which actually relates to #2), since it seems to be the common assessment that Swisher has a valuable (read: cheap) contract and may have some upside on his future performance. A “diamond in the rough”.
So leave the Arabs out of it, Tdogg (“chic”, not "sheik"). I seem to remember the posts being fairly evenly split on the value of the trade last year. I would bet it is far less split now, though many seem to be blaming KW, not Swisher’s failed and miserable performance (except in the Toby video – that was great).
Whoosh!
Oops. Thanks for the correction
Brain not functioning properly. No offense to Arabs.
And I do agree the posts were split then. Now however there is this notion to lump everything together (read a few other sites.) I don’t follow or agree with that logic. If you trade assets, the future value has nothing to do with what you gave up in the past. Now we may hammer KW on the perceived value of Swish today but I disagree with this notion that the Oakland trade has anything to do with it now.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
I disagree with reviewing last year's trade and having accountability relating to
value obtained in this one. You try to build on assets accumulated. Lineage is important, whether draft picks or present MLB’ers. To say this trade has nothing to do with last year’s in naiive. Trades take years to play out when assessing whether or not they “worked out”, and part of that assessment is how the players/picks/cash you disposed of performed, IMO. I think you have to do a future value assessment re: the “time value” of those disposed-of assets vs. those acquired.
Whoosh!
In a vacuum yes.
But I am speaking more to the current value of a player. Sorry that has nothing to do with the trade at the time. Swish was a good deal for those minor leaguer then and that hasnt changed. Again it is easy to use revisionist history after the 08 season played out.
And remember I am not arguing about who “won” the Oakland deal. I took exception to the notion that it was a “crime” and KW somehow got taken for a ride.
In summary future GMs don’t give a damn what you gave up to get a player when that next trade happens.
I might also add I see the beginnings of turning those past prospects into “all world” status which is far from true at this point.
That said I stand by KW’s original deal. I just wish he had a little more faith in it and gave it time for the benefits.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
I agree
The first deal is defensible — no way to foresee Swisher sucking so bad. It’s a “bad trade” only in hindsight and could have been a “good trade” if swish produced 2009 and beyond.
The current sucks on its face. Maybe Marquez will break out and make the trade good, but on paper it’s awful.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
????? Bravo.....
You need a pair of my glasses chief?
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
chief, sheik.
gonna break out the n word soon, whitey?
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Lol
No you have to past many levels before you reach that level with me..
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
re
Does anyone have any patience at all? Must everything be immediately trashed/exalted, or can we give this some time? Fer Chrissakes. It’s November. Not time to make sweeping generalizations about the "organization" which exceeded all (except WTGTD’s) expectations this year.
we have patience
the trashing isn’t about trading swisher but about the current value of the return
yes marqez may break out or swisher may keep going down, but the trashing isn’t about that
the trashing is about not valuing your assets logically at this moment
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
I am going to wait a little longer and see how this plays out.
My intital reaction is to agree with you on this Cheat. I am totally shocked they sold so low on Swish. KW is unpredictable but not when it comes to this type of stuff. What I mean is he usually BUYS low or at least exchanges for a player they feel have a great deal of upside.
Maybe that nugget is Marquez. Perhaps they see something they feel will equal a higher degree of production then projected right now. (It wouldnt be the first time).
Ive also learned to not take any of his moves by themselves and instead see how they all fit together.
At the present moment though its difficult to defend this trade. Even if he was sour on him you would think he could have waited for Tex to get signed and gotten a little better deal.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Ive also learned to not take any of his moves by themselves and instead see how they all fit together.
can you please explain me what do you mean here?
i’m not trying to be a smartass, I just don’t get it
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
i think he means that when kenny swaps the three stooges for david wright and carlos beltran, it will all make sense.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing deep Wiz
Just additional moves that follow. The best example would be the Pods for Lee deal which didnt make a lot of sense at first. And BEFORE anyone says it I know its a stretch and not apples to apples. Just answering the man’s question.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
it made sense as a salary dump, though.
people may not have liked it for a variety of reasons but there was a pretty clear justification for it from the very beginning. i guess people can point to this clubhouse stuff as justification…but that’s a pretty thin, largely non-baseball, justification.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
drives who nuts.
of course it’s not precisely quantifiable. but i doubt there’s anyone who can assert with a straight face that, whatever the quantity may be, it makes up for the complete ass-raping of value this deal represents.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Drives you nuts.
And I’m not saying that’s why the deal was done. I’m just sayin’. Drives ’em (seamheads, of which I consider you not only President but a member) nuts.
I “believe” this trade will make more sense over the coming months. (“Beliefs” and “intuition” are also not very quantifiable, which is why I am using such terms. To drive you nuts.)
Whoosh!
it doesn't drive me nuts at all. not sure why you'd say that.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
I'm exaggerating,
but we’ve discussed “chemistry”-type issues before, and IIRC you have not come out in favor of it being a determining factor in success, mostly because it is difficult/impossible to quantify.
Whoosh!
that's not quite what i would say.
it’s certainly there. but who knows how it develops (chicken or the egg) and how much it affects. how many times have we seen teams with what are described as horrible clubhouses win? good clubhouses lose? we all know there’s stuff that we can’t measure. spending time on arguing over it, when it appears from all research so far to be relatively minor, seems silly. swisher is worth about 2-3 wins and his contract has him being paid for less than half of that worth. you tell me if you think his supposed poisonous presence cancels that out. i find such an argument well beyond the pale.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
I can't argue the "addition by subtraction", since I really
don’t know who will be replacing him (it aint WB). I hear you, though – equal value was not exchanged thus far. But I’d like to wait before pulling my hairs out.
Whoosh!
did i miss a PTBNL in this deal.
equal value wasn’t exchanged. that isn’t going to change.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Hey WB might blow up BIG!
We are magical! Q! Che! BHB! Come on now – we are where dreams are made and potential is realized.
Unless you are Nick Swisher.
Whoosh!
che is only magical viz a viz his salary.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
He magically filled a gaping hole in the IF.
You’d prefer whom after Crede went down and Juanny had to slide over? Maybe we could’ve had Fields on one leg?
For someone projected to be AA level I think his 2nd place ROY showing worked out just fine.
Whoosh!
yes.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
he performed well for what he's being paid. great asset.
but it takes more than a 103 ops+ and .266 eqa to get my panties moist in a magical kind of way.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions
it only takes me a sawbuck.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions
You are a POS.
Admit when you are had. His whole 4 year contract was validated last year vs. Uribe’s $4.5MM one year deal.
And I have my wine on, after this week.
Whoosh!
i think i may join you, wu. a bottle of wine might help calm my nerves.
this job is really starting to take a toll on my health. i’m starting to wonder if i’m being paid enough for this much stress.
Cashing checks and having sex.
No shit.
My 35 year old associate, 3 years in the biz, told me this week “Maybe I made a poor career choice”.
You kids. Weak. 183-year events and you can’t handle it.
:)
Whoosh!
At least you're still paid
They cut me last week
Don't look back because we are going forward!
that blows, man. your firm in trouble? or is this preemtive?
maybe 2 weeks ago i was walking past the CBOT before the open and there was a moving truck parked outside on jackson and some people moving shit out of an office. i thought that was an ironic but on-point sign of the times.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 14, 2008 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
we just have to agree to disagree on the definition of magical here, moses.
i’d imagine at your age, just being able to fart without shitting your pants is magical.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
fuck you and your non-believing! che IS magical.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
you were around for the A's championship teams in the 70's
reports from that clubhouse weren’t exactly demure.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
i didn't know the a's were around in the 19th century.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
that reminds me. where is that check you said you were going to write me?
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Obama is not in office yet.
Patience.
BTW, don’t forget, all of us with jobs are already writing your checks. DB.
Whoosh!
you're both wrong.
there’s a bald eagle’s talon print on the bottom of my check.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
Nor the Yankees in the '70's. No one was happy in the '70's.
Bankrupt cities. Serial killers. Hostages. Oil embargos. But people generally work better in supportive, favorable conditions as opposed to caustic, negative conditions. Except this site, which needs pain and angst to truly come alive.
Whoosh!
i'm thinking the sox were a 100 win team last year.
except cabrera and swisher were on it. this will be a cowley column within the week.
and, again, simply because you want to get rid of someone who is a problem it does not mean that you give them away for jackshit.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
I don't know - maybe "jack" was all that could be had?
I mean, maybe? Is it possible that Swish has worn it out? Maybe?
Whoosh!
possible? anything's possible.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
That's all I'm saying.
KW is not an idiot. The trade looks idiotic. Thus, we don’t know everything, or KW has become retarded/drunk/deranged.
Whoosh!
KW is not an idiot.
doesn’t mean he won’t make the same mistakes that idiots do from time to time.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Don't bring up that trade
every time i turn on the damn television Lee is still hitting f’ing BOMBS…. That trade was a huge crime world series or not. I’m still a little salty about that… Scott Podsednik…you gotta be fucking kidding me.
Kenwo4life=ratings
See Airplane
Fly over your head.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
Dude...the team has budget and has to allocate resources well to achieve the most wins
And that’s what Williams did. And if you want Lee now with the contract he has you’re crazy. In evaluating any trade, service time and salaries are critically important information.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Holding Judgement
I was surprised at this deal but it is apparent that KW wanted Swish gone. What looked like a cheap contract last year now looks like $8m a year for the next 3 for a guy they did not want. KW obviously wanted to clear those $$ before FA started. I know $8m does not buy much these days but $8m is a start toward 10 or 12. I was in the trade Dye and move Swish camp for some time but I have changed my mind. Dye will bring Type A compensation at the end of the year which will be the best talent infussion that we could get out of either Swish or JD. For one year I think I would rather have Dye anyway. The sad part of this is that last year I like the Swisher deal (sepecially after DLS proved to be damaged) and now it is easy to say that it did not work out but that happens. The bad news of this trade did not happen yesterday; it happend all of last year. When a stock keeps going down you the loss is gradual; it just hits you in the face when you sell it. Let’s hope the Sox can put this behind them and use the $$ in an effective way.
Sarasota Sox Fan
Not a Swisher Fan -- intangibles
I admired his plate discipline (such as it is) in the beginning of the ‘08, but it seemed later in the season he let a lotta AB’s get away from him. One of the images I’m left w/ is Swish standing there frozen on strike 3 or swinging pathetically. Personality wise, I thought he was a clown. All that goofy shit in the promos and his obvious big mouth just rubbed me the wrong way — he wasn’t good enuf to pull off the swagger. Maybe they feel there’s an upside w/ the pitchers —another reclamation project for Coop. Let’s see how it plays out. .
I’d like to get a scouts take on Nick Swisher. BABIP makes it seem like he’ll return to form, but maybe he just has lost it. If he really does suck and it wasn’t an outlier, a mediocre third baseman making a lot less money is probably the right trade.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 8:34 AM CST reply actions
Is this english for was on roids and is not now?
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
nope
it means he has been made aware of the Yankees interest and has acted to get the move.
number one when it mattered!
If you really believe that that kind of thing does not go on in MLB
then I think you are being naive.
in the EPL, it was ilegal to tamper with other teams players, everyone denied it happened. then one or two people started blowing the whistle and found out it had being going on since players started getting paid more than brass washers.
It’s the same in all professional sport and if you think that MLB is somehow immune to such practices then you are sadly deluded.
number one when it mattered!
Don't assume what I think, hoodie.
I just don’t think he tanked the last half to go to the Yankees. Building upon your idea, perhaps he told the Sox he wanted to go to NY (like Manny said he wanted out, and perhaps had some say as to whom he was traded).
I just thought you might have “specialized knowledge” in other areas, too.
(Since Stan’s return you are much less vulnerable. Must’ve been the wire brush.)
Whoosh!
wire
jesus, I wouldn’t have beeen able to walk. How many birds do you know that have hairbrushes made from wire?
number one when it mattered!
I'd rather not talk anymore about
the brush incident, thank you very much
number one when it mattered!
i don't recall if you specified whether it was a rounded one (ouchier). but that's how i like to picture it.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
sss-speak for "now all of you get in line and sodomize me with a rounded wire brush, please."
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
that is what i heard.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Possible.
I really don’t know. He doesn’t seem like the type to just quit on a team, but I’m not in the clubhouse who knows.
Just hard to judge this trade until we see how Nick Swisher plays next year. WB was supposed to great at one time I guess; I’ll trust Kenny for now. He’s earned that much from me, this isn’t John Paxson, I have no reason to believe he doesn’t know what he’s doing.
I’m just really trying to not get pissed about a trade that Kenny Williams makes, when I always end up eating crow midseason when he’s proven me wrong. I’m taking the same approach I did with Q and Alexei, that I’d believe we made the right move until proven otherwise and that worked out well for me.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
i love the ray durham and cash for jon adkins
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
impossible to read KW but
any speculation on what his next move could be? it seems as if hes content on giving all of our young starters opportunities to win jobs out of ST…. possibly poreda, egbert, marquez(?), richard, etc….. does he target a CF’er now in trades? there really isnt much in FA that fits the sox needs.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
I'd still look at the Brewers.
Mike Cameron, middle infield surplus, need pitching if they don’t get Sabathia. Vazquez and Cameron make the same amount of money too.
Vazquez, Anderson, Fields for Cameron, MI seems like the Brewers would do it. Not sure how the White Sox come out in the deal but fills our holes.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Can the Brewers add salary?
The Sox might need to take back contract for that trade to happen. And I don’t think Cameron is KW’s style.
I do agree that it seems probable that Vazquez, Fields, and Anderson get moved to fill the “leadoff position”. Or maybe just Fields, Anderson, and Egbert for Juan Pierre? Something like that?
Getting Betemit and Marquez I think is about “freeing up” Vazquez and Fields for a trade….
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Cameron makes 10 million. Their middle infielders make at least the same as Fields / Anderson.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
sure at first glance i really can't stand this trade
and after reading about the prospects…with nunez as essentially 2 two pitch pitcher (when he gets his arm slot right apparently)…marquez seems to be the type of guy that perhaps can turn out to be an ok starter…sure his lines from last year don’t look great…maybe coop can get him going with the addition of a cutter…look what it did for danks and for a year loazia was the 2nd coming we’ll just have to wait and see…upon hearing betemit was included in the deal, my thoughts were wow a taller version of juan uribe that doesn’t eat up ground balls….i have to say that this deal has to be the groundbreaking of another deal in the works…if not…then i have no clue where the hell this franchise is headed….last night thoughts were swarming everywhere in new trade/sign possibilities…what kept jumping out was mark teixiera, and although this seems almost impossible, who knows what KW has in store for the south side next…i’m just sayin
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
justifying a bad trade by saying there must be another move coming
doesn’t make much sense. i’m failing to see how having swisher on the roster is an impediment to anything. unless ben sheets’ wife cheated on him with swisher and gettind rid of swisher is the only way he’d sign with the white sox. that’s about it. maybe. so i guess i’ll withold judgment to on the moroniosity until we find out how many different women and/or men swisher has banged and how that might affect later acquisitions.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
that's quite the sig you have there
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
I love the idea that our impending and inevitable acquisition of Taveras will bring all of this together...
by Craig Grebeck on Nov 14, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
YES!
logic returns! briefly…
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
keith law knows
He could be a middle reliever, especially if he stops throwing his mediocre curve, but that’s probably it, and he doesn’t have anything to miss bats. (Of course, the White Sox will immediately teach him a cutter, so stay tuned.)
THATS HOW WE DO SON
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
uhhh furbs knows....i mentioned teaching him a cutter in my comment
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
I knew there would be at least one grind somewhere
“I’m not committing myself to anything right now,” Williams said on a conference call. “All I’m committing myself to, if anything, is simply grinding it away every day to exhaust possibilities.”
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
Cashman called Swisher a Grinder too.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
is kitchenaid getting royalties from all this grinding?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
I’m only in training.. I’m not quite sure how the royalties are distributed. I know Rowand gets a cut but that’s all they’ve told me so far.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
from all this scouting report Marquez sounds kinda like Vazquez
Marquez knows how to pitch and has a good idea of what he wants to do on the mound. He uses four pitches of varying degrees to get hitters out. In the AFL, he threw his fastball in the 89-93 mph range, comfortably sitting 90-91. His curve grades out as average, between 74-77 mph. He also threw a second breaking ball, a slider, which was a little more hit or miss. It clocked in at around 84-85 mph, but it needs to be tightened to be more effective. Of all his secondary pitches, though, it’s Marquez’s changeup that might be his best offering. He threw it 81-83 mph and showed a lot of comfort with it, commanding it well.
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
according to Law
his curveball is dogshit, and he needs to stop using it.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
And Bull Pain said he was one of the worst pitchers he saw last season
That, plus the stats, plus Marquez’s place on the Yankees prospect rankings gives me a lot of confidence that this guy isn’t a major league pitcher. And won’t be.
Before this trade, no one was talking about Marquez challenging for a starting spot next season.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
maybe Marquez has some heart, at least.
:P
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
maybe a few balls too
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
only 2 letters separate them. awesome.awesome.awesome.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
whose scouting report is this?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
the one cashman had jeter write during trade negotiations.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Odds on "Groin Problem II"
being our starting CF in ’09?
I say 64 / 36.
Sox in 2009!
i'd say higher.
but why debate the percentages. it’s certainly more likely than not at this point.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Odds on Betemit being starting 3B?
he is latino….
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
call it even.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Chance of at least one of Owens and Betemit starting next season is 100%
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
ouch
at least owens can play the lead off position…..
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
chances of the goon squad wreaking havoc on your ass...100%
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
My goon squad joke of the day
Jackie Mason (who famously pissed off Frank Sinatra):
Frank Sinatra saved my life.
One night at the Sands, four guys started beating and kicking me within an inch of my life. Just when I thought I was going to die, Frank walks by and says,
"That’s enough, boys."
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
How old are you?
Jackie Mason? Fer Chrissakes, is Henny Youngman next?
(I enjoy the eff out of Jackie, BTW. But think of the kids…)
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
how old are you?
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
Younger than you but aging rapidly (thanks Kenny!)
Think of the kids? I was trying to educate them :)
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
(It was a rhetorical question. But we are all aging prematurely.
It’s the ozone layer’s removal.)
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Darn it. Did I screw up figuring out the Sample Space again? Or the Random Variable?
It bugs me that a random variable is in fact neither random nor a variable. No wonder probability is hard….
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
can juan come back and eat betemit, pick up the slaq again and turn into the super thirdbaseman to be known as
Juansin Qtemit
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
Well...I'd go 50 -50
But if it’s not GP2, it will be someone like him. I was thinking that Vazquez and Fields were going to be used to fill CF. But it’s possible they’ll be used to fill 3B via trade I suppose. If that’s the case, GP2 is a lock for CF next season. Good times.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
and then some depressed fuck cake eating
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
damnit i knew i messed it up
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
100/0
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
the odds were the same as you living through the end of the year
diagnosis…not likely
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
Hysterical.
Here’s a quarter. Call me when you’re 21.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
you even tried to find a pay phone these days?
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
They still exist, but yeah,
not very topical. But the point is made, in good spirit.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
you were making a point? a warning would have been in order.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Not sure I understand.
Someone says I’ll be dead by year-end and I respond by telling them to grow some hair first. What warning?
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
you were bald until you were 21? i am so confused.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
You are?
I thought you were omnipotent and omnipresent.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
omnipotent? now you're just picking on me because of my condition.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
good to see you
got to the bottom of it.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
i wasn't correcting - just wanted to write it two more times. :)
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
if someone has fucked a cake, and they want to eat it....they would be eating a fucked-cake.
and yes, i am a writer, so i english all the time.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 17, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
It's NOVEMBER.
Nothing happens before the winter meetings.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
hey...maybe we are missing the bigger picture....
couldn’t seattle use a couple (seemingly) worthless minor league pitchers, and might enjoy betemit instead of beltre!?
let’s just go after that mess of an organization with these guys. makes perfect sense!
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
and ichiro
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
well, i don't think they'll fall for that one....that's the only reason they still have any attendance at games.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
what if we threw in brett favre
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
getting Zduriencik drunk might just do the trick.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
hell....
let’s treat Cora probably taking over for Riggleman as part of the trade…
i don’t think the mariners know enough about baseball to notice that that is an entirely different topic!
“we’ll throw in Marquez, Betenit, Horacio Ramirez (you remember that all-star, right?), and Joey Cora as manager for King Felix and Beltre.”
sounds good to me!
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
you keep saying this, so i'm not sure if this is a joke
but ramirez is a free agent.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
No!!! The Sox are losing HoRam too?!?!
Pffft. There goes the offseason.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, i don't keep all that stuff straight necessarily. but i just want him to not be on our team. however that paperwork plays out...
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
you need to get him in your pocket
unleash the hounds of dirty prostitute war, dang nabbit.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
Top 3 Comps for Marquez from BRef:
1. Bob Feller
2. Lefty Grove
3. John Smoltz
I shoud note that I used an alternative spelling for Marquez’s name in looking that up (T-O-M S-E-A-V-E-R), but still …
by The Actual El Guapo on Nov 14, 2008 11:27 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
Seriously, though...
if it makes anyone feel better, Swisher’s most similar batters usually didn’t do much after age 30 (if they made it that far). Then again, his similar batters through age 27 were pretty decent 110-120 OPS+ guys, so…
No, even that doesn’t do a damned thing. This sucks. I like Betemit — ZiPS seems to give him a non-terrible chance of being a 105-110 OPS+ player — but for Swisher? Hell, even something like Betemit + MR. KENNEDY! would’ve been balanced. It’s just tough to get excited about Marquez and whoever else we traded for.
I’m so confused…
i'm just as confused by kenny referring to himself as grindy. first a black president, and now this?
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
i believe this is the chain of events that was triggered when the twins did not win the division.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Yes.
and — a bit off-topic — you and/or colin mentioned a week or two back about a ’what’cha reading’, link dump type thread. I think that needs to be started and I will get off my lazy ass and do so.
I guess I’m just looking for approval. I’m thinking people will actually post there (like the music thread and that mysterious minor leaguer, although I keep forgetting the name of the poster who started that thread), right?
Sure, but we are beginning to stray affar from the site's purpose, no?
Matters not to me. I think I might be able to keep up more on a “reading” list than a music list.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
until the postman reaches you next week, perhaps. then you'll be golden.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Trooth to that, though the newspapers come every day.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
the powers may be may disagree, but i like the idea of some off-baseball topic fanposts, at least in the offseason.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.
I like the well-rounded commentary via our threads, as you might imagine. If seamheads and goofballs like me can co-exist, bring on the off-topic posts.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I had thought about that, WU
but I figured Cheat will jump in if/when he feels we’re moving too far astray (and subsequently I’d respect whatever decision he’d make). I don’t think a couple of condensed threads are that much of a problem, though. If it starts spreading to gobs of non-baseball/White Sox related posts/diaries, I could see a problem but as of now that’s not the case.
Agreed. It's his site.
Value increasing – good arguments and diversification of topics might bring more eyeballs/revenue.
Whoosh!
do it, man!
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
there is a minor league thread you say?
:p
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
i've gotten to the point
of just not thinking about it anymore or trying to figure it out. it’s sort of working, idk though. can’t really worry too hard on it til march
I hope there isn't a rapiest ape.
Yeah, Marquez is the football to the groin
Betemit, I’m not fond of because his glove sucks and he can’t get on base. I’d rather have Uribe, but maybe Juan wanted $3M or $4M or something. So, fine, replace him with Betemit.
But the other player in the deal should be a real prospect like Kennedy or Betances. The Sox thought they saw something in Marquez that puts him on that level. But no one else apparently does. I’m flabbergasted that this guy cost the Sox Swisher and is pencilled in on the major league roster (and presumably rotation). It’s utterly bizarre. Egbert is a better prospect, even now.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
firejoemorgan.com closes its doors.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Wow. Like Bush, who has yet to find bin Laden,
FJM cedes defeat, as JM still has a job.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
and fjm wasn't even subject to term limits.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Guess both were just a waste...
“Waste”. What a great name for a song.
Whoosh!
by winningugly on Nov 14, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
a great name for a song written and performed by a great band who will be playing three nights in hampton, virginia in early march.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
get a fucking room, you two.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
i was thinking more of a heavy petting room, but what the hell...
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
I heard Paul Rudd on "Conan" last night describe a "handy".
Do you need a room for a “handy”?
Whoosh!
why are you asking me? ask the pro.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
as far as i know, all you needs is a popcorn bucket with a hole in the bottom.
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
And popcorn.
I mean, it’s way too obvious without the popcorn. Except for colin, who I hear is hamster-like.
(Just kidding, colin the Club.)
Whoosh!
it's actually just that white.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
oh, man, that blows. i thought the potential break-up of the sunday night crew might have been a bad omen, but this is truly disappointing. i loved the writing and they consistently made me laugh.
though i am so happy that i inadvertantly got “consistent” in my thoughts.
Cashing checks and having sex.
With Swisher gone, I need to know...
1. Will any team members continue to strike the Capt. Morgan pose?
2. Will we see any more crazy coloring of facial hair?
"There will be surgery. It will heal. It will heal fast."- Carlos Quentin on NBC 5 News Chicago (9/5/08)
I was fucking pissed when I heard of this trade yesterday
I decided I’d stay calm and wait to see Cheat’s analysis – hoping there was some value in this trade or these prospects that I was missing.
Now I’m back to being fucking pissed.
by chrome on Nov 14, 2008 1:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Stupid Trade
No way around it. This is one we can call Kenny out.
Usually we say “Give Kenny a chance”…. but not on this shit
The only possible defense of the trade is "well, he's made trades that looked bad in the past that turned out ok, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt."
Even then, it’s hard to find one that seemed this lopsided at the time that turned out well.
by The Actual El Guapo on Nov 14, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
maybe you can answer wu's question about whether you need a room for a handy then.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
My love is proud and open. My handy need not be confined to a room.
by The Actual El Guapo on Nov 14, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Is a "handy" the same as a "sleever"?
"There will be surgery. It will heal. It will heal fast."- Carlos Quentin on NBC 5 News Chicago (9/5/08)
i generally prefer trades where fans on both sides think they got royally screwed.
YankeesFan ((NY,NY)): WHAT A DEAL FOR THE YANKS!!!!
Steven Goldman: A lot like this here in the chat queue. I think that is the one aspect of this that’s pretty wonderful regardless of what happens with Teixeira. The Yankees gave up Jeff Marquez, who seems a good bet to never pitch in the big leagues, dealt a pitching prospect for another who looks even better who doesn’t have to be put on the 40-man, and Wilson Betemit, who played his way off the team. What’s not to love about that?
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
punch em in the dick
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
ChuckR (Addison, IL): But there has to be some upside for the Sox on getting Betemit, right? There is at least some logic somewhere in the deal for Kenny Williams, right? Right?
Steven Goldman: It gives them another option besides Josh Fields, who they don’t seem too sold on in any case, but to my mind not a great one. Betamax is not a great defender and is a switch-hitter in name only—do NOT play against lefties. Oh, and he has no plate judgment. That said, he probably has some platoon value at 3B and emergency value at SS.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
So...
The upside is they don’t have faith in Josh Fields and that Betemit has a great nickname. I just can’t fathom what the hell Kenny was thinking. How in the world is this the best thing we can get for such a cheap, decent if not good young player in his prime.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
your ribs broken yet?
Josh (Chicago): Steve, there are several reasons Kenny Williams may have traded Nick Swisher that have nothing to do with money/talent. As it’s been reported on the Chicago stations, Swisher shut out the coaching staff completely last year, blew off the hitting coach when he tried to help him, and simply withdrew into himself once he was put in a platoon. Additionally, Swisher’s locker room clown act was beginning to wear thin (his partner in crime, Toby Hall, has also been shown the door). Just something to keep in mind before blasting Kenny Williams…
Steven Goldman: I wasn’t necessarily blasting him, but the trade was uneven, even if his reasons are of the off-field variety. Whatever the issues with Swisher’s personality and comportment, he’s a guy with value, a four-position guy who has produced in the past and even in a miserable year took a whole bunch of walks and hit with power. Players are traded for all kinds of reasons, even the one you site—that they’re too annoying to live with. That still doesn’t mean that the team shouldn’t get value for them. At first glance it doesn’t appear Williams did that.
mine too pretty much
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Jew opinion.
How can I take this seriously? (As my daughter says the “baruch ata adonai” over dinner tonight.)
Whoosh!
nunez-tex
And Nunez isn’t even worth discussing, because the Sox added essentially the same player in the deal, a AA reliever with good numbers. That seems like a one-for-one swap in itself.
tex’s numbers seem a bit better to me, no?
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=32001
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=31023
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
I'm perplexed - why all the love for Swisher?
I saw a year of him here… what makes him so outstanding that a large percentage SSS’rs are upset. Does losing him hurt us in some major way I don’t see. Or is this just pent-up aggrivation being released over the first trade. On or off the roster – outside of the poss. talent given up last year and now lost (thx WU), this just doesn’t seem that big a deal to me.
Don't look back because we are going forward!
LOL - that's an argument I can agree with (myself included)!
Don't look back because we are going forward!
high OBP? young? very team-friendly contract?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
forgot 'good power'
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
You are looking at it the wrong way.
Swisher will likely rebound next year. What has most confused this is the exact opposite of KW does usually and for good reason I think.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
here's why. learn and evolve.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/swisher-changes-hands-again
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Same info. Agreeing with most people's "bet".
All I’m saying is the “bet” might come up a crapper re: motivation/other GM lusting after Swish.
(Devil’s advocate am I.)
Whoosh!
Hey - you calling me the devil then?
Don't look back because we are going forward!
WE'RE THE DEVILS!!!! THE DEVILSSSSSSS!!!!!
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
even if
the Yankees “lose” on the bet, they still likely end up with the better player, which is the biggest problem.
All I'm saying is its not a big loss
He may bounce back – he may not. Unless Sox move PK, he won’t be the 1st baseman. He’s only OK in CF – and currently there is no spot in Left or Right. So in my view he’s a backup 1st baseman on the Sox. What we don’t know is the behind the scenes stuff – its all a guess and we are putting a value on a commodity that apparently didn’t draw interest from other buyers. Do you sit on the asset and hope it increases? I guess it depends on high you feel the gamble is. Apparently KW didn’t think the gamble was worth it.
Don't look back because we are going forward!
Are you forgetting the ages of Thome, Dye and Konerko?
The insurance alone makes a compelling case.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
I think it is insurance - for Fields
Don't look back because we are going forward!
lol.
yeah. fucking betemit. insurance. well, i guess i’m of the type that doesn’t fall for that whole life crap when it comes to insurance. apparently KW likes overpaying for his, too.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
One name - Juan - same argument last year... came in handy at the end though
Don't look back because we are going forward!
that's really nice. overpaid for juan, too.
but that was just money. you don’t do the same with players. you want insurance at 3B/SS/2B, go overpay for cesar izturis or something.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
No but I did work for Northwestern Mutual as a young lad.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
thanks.
it’s a huge loss. 2-3 wins at a cut rate price. not to mention tdogg’s point. you seem to think this is a gamble of some sort. i guess you didn’t read what i linked. his rebound is about the surest bet in baseball next year.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
If he plays as a regular - do you get that same win/loss as a late inning sub?
Don't look back because we are going forward!
trade dye. that is the one who should have gone to salve the "glut". this was a silly deal to make.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
But how many wins do you give up by moving Dye
Though the return could offset that if you can get the right player/s
Don't look back because we are going forward!
i can tell you one thing for sure.
it would only be wins for next year and not the next four years. and i’d call the difference between dye and swisher in RF largely non-existent.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
i would put money on his rebound just for the fact that we gave him away! that is the truest bet of anybody rebounding or out-performing expectations. did the sox get rid of them?
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
Because clearly that has happened so often.
No if I were the Yanks I’d check those medical records extra close!
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
i'm pat gillick, gord ash, and jon daniels, and i approve this message.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
oh, and billy beane too.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
As to value and drawing more interest.
What’s the rush? Why move him right now?
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
That I agree with - not sure on the need to move him this quick
Don't look back because we are going forward!
looks like the garland-cabrera mistake of last year.
moved too early there, too, methinks. didn’t end up being a bad deal but with the way the SS market developed (i.e., cratered) the sox could have gotten cabrera’s equivalent on the FA market and flipped garland for something else.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
An extra punch in the dick...
if anything, we’ve made it a whole hell of a lot easier for the yankees to go after teixeira.
found so mething, can that be it?
Here are the best OPS+ figures for a guy who batted .220 or worse over a full season in the last 20 years:
Cnt Player OPS+ BA Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS OBP SLG OPS Positions
——————————-——————-———-—-——-—-—-—-—-————-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-—-———-——-——-————-+
1 Rob Deer 108 .209 1990 29 MIL AL 134 511 440 57 92 15 1 27 69 64 6 147 4 0 3 0 2 3 .313 .432 .745 *93
2 Rob Deer 105 .210 1989 28 MIL AL 130 532 466 72 98 18 2 26 65 60 5 158 4 0 2 8 4 8 .305 .425 .730 *9/D78
3 Darrell Evans 104 .208 1988 41 DET AL 144 522 437 48 91 9 0 22 64 84 4 89 1 0 0 14 1 4 .337 .380 .717 *D3
4 Mark McGwire 103 .201 1991 27 OAK AL 154 585 483 62 97 22 0 22 75 93 3 116 3 1 5 13 2 1 .330 .383 .713 *3
5 Kevin Maas 100 .220 1991 26 NYY AL 148 592 500 69 110 14 1 23 63 83 3 128 4 0 5 4 5 1 .333 .390 .723 *D3
6 Nick Swisher 93 .219 2008 27 CHW AL 153 588 497 86 109 21 1 24 69 82 6 135 4 1 4 14 3 3 .332 .410 .742 3879/D
7 Phil Plantier 93 .220 1994 25 SDP NL 96 385 341 44 75 21 0 18 41 36 6 91 5 1 2 8 3 1 .302 .440 .742 *7
8 Jose Valentin 92 .216 2004 34 CHW AL 125 504 450 73 97 20 3 30 70 43 4 139 3 6 2 5 8 6 .287 .473 .760 *6/D
9 Rob Deer 92 .179 1991 30 DET AL 134 539 448 64 80 14 2 25 64 89 1 175 0 0 2 3 1 3 .314 .386 .700 *9/D
10 Pat Burrell 90 .209 2003 26 PHI NL 146 599 522 57 109 31 4 21 64 72 2 142 4 0 1 18 0 0 .309 .404 .713 *7/D
…
A few guys on this list – McGwire, Burrell, Johnson among them – had productive seasons after their dismal year. But most of these guys disappeared into nothingness.
Personally, I have no idea what the Yankees were thinking in acquiring Swisher.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/sotd/archives/887
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
What a poor use of logic.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
that was logic? where?
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
i thought the sentences were logically ordered.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
so after being a year of being league average or below, some of the guys disappeared and others didn't.
imagine that.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
It kinda matters
What were their ages and previous year’s performance.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
you mean context?
shame on you for mentioning that.
what’s rule #1 on anything? what’s the fucking context.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
no context + small sample size = topic for joe cowley column?
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
needs more california.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Someone's being driven crazy, or at least to frustration.
Potty fingers increasing. Steam being expelled from ears…
Let’s see what happens.
Whoosh!
i have other things going on.
and don’t i always swear this much?
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
hmmm
The problem with this list is that your over looking…
Kevin Maas was a guy that had a short burst of awsomeness then quickly regressed to means in that season (his second, and only one where he was mostly a regular)
Evans was really old
Plantier was sort of like Maas, he had one season in his career where he was sort of a regular. and unforunately that year was also 1993, so the strike also distorted the view a bit there.
Valentin was 34 on a steady decline for several years, he then had one bounce back year in 06 with the Mets before dissappearing into oblivion.
Deer is the only sort of plausible case since he was a regular most of the time. but he’s strike out rate is on a different level than Swisher he’s LOWEST K% was 31 and for his career Ked 36% of the time relative to Swisher’s Swisher’s career is 25%, he Ks quiet a bit, but Rob Deer is Adam Dunn without Adam Dunn power.
So on this list, the bad cases were 1 REALLY old guy, 1 guy who’s steadily declining in his mid 30s, 2 guys who were miscasted as regulars, and 1 guy who was sort of a regular . versus 2 guys who was awsome afterwards. … that’s not a very compelling case against Swisher, who is neither old, and has been starting for a long time, and while he does strike out it’s not at Adam Dunn level. and the decline was completely unforseen. while i dont’ think he’ll go on and pull a McGwire, a Burrelleque bounce back seems likely. even if to a lesser degree it still be quiet useful, since he’s a real glove at the corner
macdougal outrighted to charlotte.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
quentin: BP player profile
Where does Quentin go from here? He has hurt his wrist, which often damages a slugger’s power output, but he’s also a hitter with excellent bat speed and pitch recognition who improved in the few areas of his game that needed help, such as his walk rate and cutting down on strikeouts. Whether he keeps up the MVP-caliber slugger act is a question worthy of discussion—more on that later—but it’s obvious that Quentin should be a productive, above-average outfielder from here on out, much like his tools and the early career forecasts indicated he would be.
…
Moving forward, a crude projection for 2009 sees Quentin likely to hit .271/.368/.503 with 24 home runs. Quentin’s .280 BABIP may generally be expected to regress, but it actually established a career high. Playing the majority of his games in a hitter’s park, and with his growing propensity for fly balls, there is no reason that Quentin cannot exceed the 24 projected home runs. He isn’t a fielding wizard—10 plays below average in left field in 2008—but at just 26 years old, Quentin likely has several more solid offensive seasons in the tank.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8306
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Using HitTracker Online’s data on Quentin, which breaks home runs up into whether or not they were no-doubters, plenty-gone, or just-enough, 12 of his 36 home runs were in the “just-enough” category. So, one-third of Quentin’s home runs barely cleared the fences, and four of them were labeled “lucky” due to the fact that, with standard weather conditions, the balls would not have cleared the fences. On top of that, ten of Quentin’s home runs would not have been round-trippers in 23 other stadiums. By no means am I trying to detract from his season, but he clearly benefited from playing in a hitter’s ballpark.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Clearly.
And he’ll clearly be playing in the same hitter’s park next year. Now, if he’s lost strength due to his idiotic injury, all bets are off.
Otherwise, pencil him in for 30+ with a full, healthy season.
Whoosh!
when did quentin last have a full, healthy season?
isn’t that rather a large part of the projection?
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Small sample size.
He’s young. He’s learning. Someone needs to have him get in touch with his inner peaceful self, but not enough so to douse the competitive flame that burns so brightly within.
Dr. Phil?
Whoosh!
keep that yahoo away from the team!
:p
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Oprah?
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions
What is the standard ratio of Just Enough home runs vs. Total home runs for major league baseball players?
I’d have to think a third of them being just enough is high, but I’d like to dig into that a bit further.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 14, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
a guy at HBT has done a lot of research in this area.
a search of that site might prove fruitful.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
the home run leader through early september had the most home runs that barely cleared the fences?
how could that be? what a revelation! i never would have guessed.
Cashing checks and having sex.
seems to me that should have been directed at WU, and not my quote.
i thought this kind of stuff was not a revelation, which is why i didn’t quote it originally.
free chris getz!
yeah, i suppose you're right. i just assumed that everyone would have figured that to be a regular occurrence.
Cashing checks and having sex.
transaction analysis: accept it.
To bring this back to a summation of sorts, while I’m not wild about dealing Swisher when his value was down, and accept that there’s a reasonable likelihood that this deal looks bad in the shade of whatever it is that Swisher does as a Yankee, the Sox got some kind of value, and it isn’t impossible to see how, by 2010, they might have a key infielder and two pitchers on the big-league staff to show in their own defense. To my fellow statheads rushing to condemn Kenny Williams, I’d suggest that this wouldn’t be the first time he did something we despaired of, and that ended up turning out pretty well. With the big money committed to Paul Konerko, Jermaine Dye, and Jim Thome, and with Carlos Quentin back in action next season, and in the face of the evidence that Swisher can’t really play center all that well, there’s reason to accept the need to move Swisher now.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8308
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
I think this is about the best we all hope for.
"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."
by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."
wilson betemit might be okay.
it’s just the rest of that stuff. and texeira is just a kick in the ribs when we’re down.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
once again, people take me posting a link as me endorsing a position.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
No - your title lent itself to a tacit endorsement, IMO.
Mostly, though, I based it on the opinion I have that anything BP says you rarely take major issue with, since they are thorough and clean in their analysis.
Whoosh!
isn't it just a title?
and since most people on here don’t have access to BP analysis, it seems rather silly to debate things that people on here don’t know anything about, no? i have other places for that.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Come on, Buckley, Jr., the title is an extension of your opinion, usually
said with major tongue in cheek.
Whoosh!
come on?
it’s a summary. i have the title of the BP column and her conclusion. come on?
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
even if i usually do that for my titles,
i have no idea because i don’t pay a great deal of attention, i’m not sure why one would think i would endorse something i’ve been railing against for the last 24 hours and, to boot, have a skewering of in my signature. i would imagine another thing people notice about me is that i don’t flip flop frequently. and certainly wouldn’t do it this quickly.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
Your last point is taken, and I didn't know the title was a direct quote.
Just like Patton – never pay for the same real estate twice.
Whoosh!
yes. i know it's a stretch to get people to read things on here.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
zing!!!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
fine
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
just fine?
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
PA's middle is AL
pittsburgh, alabama, and philly
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
"some kind of value"
You know, I don’t think so. I see 2 pitchers that will never impact the bigs and can’t dealt cause everyone else knows they aren’t prospects. And I see Betemit, and you could pick up someone like him to backup the IF as a FA for about the same salary with the same performance I see 0 value.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
The money line is "To my fellow statheads rushing to condemn Kenny Williams, I’d suggest that this wouldn’t be the first time he did something we despaired of, and that ended up turning out pretty well."
KW has earned the benefit of the doubt. That’s the best (and maybe only) argument in favor of this.
by The Actual El Guapo on Nov 14, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
just finished reading the fangraphs link
it didn’t help…
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
nate silver wants you to read his books.
Mr. Silver’s agent, Sydelle Kramer of the Susan Rabiner Agency, is giving them their chance this week, having sent out a brief proposal with instructions to indicate interest by Tuesday.
According to someone who saw the proposal, Mr. Silver is looking to write two books. The first is a Freakonomics-style guide to politics that answers questions like "Is there really a Bradley Effect?" while the second is on the art of prediction, a book that will draw on interviews with people who have to predict things for a living. In his proposal, Mr. Silver spent two pages describing each book.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
*insert jay sherman*
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
The words "strike while the iron is hot" come to mind here.
No one’s — not even Obama’s — stock rose more than Nate’s in this election.
by The Actual El Guapo on Nov 14, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions
he had bios in most major media pubs i'm aware of.
pretty dang huge.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
The thing about the trade that interests me most
Will be seeing how invested the Sox are in Marquez. It sounds like he’s essentially in the starting rotation for 2009. If that’s true, I’m just dumbfounded. And if the Sox do trade Vazquez because they acquired Marquez that’s just an amazing gamble to take on a guy that sucked in AAA.
I think they're expecting him to compete for a spot
and I also think the Sox believe that the ’07 Marquez is more who he really is rather than the ’08 model.
by El Duque's Raft on Nov 14, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions
which isn't necessarily unreasonable.
just like when god decides that your entire family should be brutally raped and murdered by neo-nazis, kenny williams is just testing our faith as a sox fans.
So are these all players the Sox just so happen to overvalue significantly relative to the rest of the league?
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
no. they're all players the rest of the league undervalues significantly. sit down and have some kool aid.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
In a separate deal, the New York Yankees acquired slumping veteran OF/1B Nick Swisher and minor league reliever Kanekoa Texeira from the Chicago White Sox for MLB reserve infielder Wilson Betemit, Triple-A starting pitcher Jeff Marquez and Double-A reliever Jhonny Nunez. It’s impressive that New York managed to get Swisher for those three players, let alone have Chicago toss in a B-level minor league reliever. Texeira has average stuff but he has more than enough talent to be a middle reliever in Major League Baseball. At High-A ball, he allowed 28 hits in 38.2 innings and posted rates of 3.26 BB/9 and 8.38 K/9. At Double-A, he allowed 18 hits in 22.1 innings and posted rates of 2.82 BB/9 and 9.67 K/9/. Texeira may actually be the most talented of the three prospects that changed hands in this deal… which speaks less about his overall talent and more about the quality of prospects that Chicago received.
With that said, Marquez is an interesting player. Only 24, Marquez has the potential to fit in at the back end of the White Sox rotation or as a long reliever. He won 15 games in Double-A in 2007, but his overall numbers were no where near as impressive as the win total. Marquez struggled with injuries in 2008 and started 14 games at Triple-A. He allowed 93 hits in 80.2 innings and posted rates of 2.68 BB/9 and 3.68 K/9. Marquez has always been too hittable and doesn’t strike out many batters, but he’s had constant success in terms of FIP and ERA. He is basically a one-pitch pitcher with a sinker and a collection of below-average or average secondary pitches.
Nunez, 22, has already been the property of the Dodgers, the Nationals, the Yankees and now the White Sox. He is another one-pitch pitcher with a low- to mid-90s fastball, as well as a developing slider and change-up. If he sticks in the bullpen, Nunez can scrap the change-up. In High-A ball this season as a starter, the right-hander allowed 88 hits in 81 innings and posted rates of 2.33 BB/9 and 9.11 K/9. After moving up to Double-A, for both Washington and New York, Nunez allowed 25 hits in 27.1 innings and struck out more than 10 batters per nine innings. Chicago does love those hard-throwing relievers so Nunez could surface at the Major League level by the end of 2009 if his command continues to improve.
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/more-prospects-change-hands
It's not?
I understand punting on the 5th starter spot happens often. But Marquez just isn’t a good prospect. In terms of ability to compete in the majors next season I think Richard, Poreda and Egbert are all better bets. I just don’t get it.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 14, 2008 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
OT: Watchmen trailer
I was being pretentious before. I’m officially anticipating this.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
this new trailer
has completely sold me on it not sucking. the last one made me nervous
I hope there isn't a rapiest ape.
looks awesome
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
I read it on advice from yous and larry
I heard they were changing the ending. Any news?
"I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Gonna kick some ass in the USA. Gonna climb a mountain, gonna sew a flag, gonna fly on an eagle. I’m gonna kick some butt, gonna drive a big truck. I’m gonna rule this world. I’m gonna kick some ass. I’m gonna rise up, gonna kick a little ass. Rock, flag, and eagle!"
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 14, 2008 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
Ken Williams
What was Ken Williams thinking with this trade. He’s trying to improve the team, not destroy it. Come on.
who wants a cc?
The Yankees have officially tendered an offer to CC Sabathia, ESPN’s Buster Olney reports. The Yankees offered a six-year deal worth more than $137.5 million, Olney reports.
which part?
he’s going to get more than that offer. if you mean to the yankees, probably in the next week and a half or so.
the second part was what i meant
how big a contract you think he ends up landing?
I hope there isn't a rapiest ape.
6 years, 150-160 million
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
$162 mil
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/free-agent-values-cc-sabathia
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
btw, 7/171 for tex
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/free-agent-values-mark-teixeira
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
Does this trade mean
that we automatically have to put more confidence in Brian Anderson?
Just wondering….
How could he lose the ball in the sun....he's from Mexico.
listen right
this Marquez guy will be like the rainbow on a rainy day, the chink of light on a horrible dark night, the kiss from the lover you have never thought was possible, the incident with the hairbrush, the venereal diseases, the credit crunch, the saying of the word ‘cunt’ on national TV, the curly brown hair, the south side, the what happened to hairy fannys, the thank fuck we still have Carlos Quentin, the isn’t it great when your girlfriend lets you ejaculate all over her boobs, the SSH crew.
yes I’ve been drinking, but I love you all
regards
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 14, 2008 6:07 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
tell mrs. WU you want to do some "experimenting" tonight
:p
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
and if you can't find a suitable dude, i'm sure the kid won't notice if her gerbil is missing tomorrow.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
yes, hoodie, yes.
but one clarification please – “the SSH crew?”
...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.
by homesickalien on Nov 14, 2008 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, you know, the ssh disciples. i'm number 12.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
yes, i did that wrong
sorry, I was in stream mode, SSS, but I should be allowed a mistake now and then
number one when it mattered!
THE CORRESPONDING MOVE THAT MAKES THE SWISHER TRADE MAKE SENSE!!!
you all were right. we should have just waited before issuing a knee jerk response.
White Sox offer Pima County $5 million buyout
The Associated Press
6:05 PM CST, November 14, 2008
TUCSON, Ariz. – The White Sox are offering Arizona’s Pima County a $5 million buyout to break the team’s spring training contract and move to the Phoenix suburb of Glendale next spring.
County supervisors will consider the proposal Tuesday.
The team’s under contract to play at Tucson Electric Park through 2012. Its ownership wants to share a new stadium with the Los Angeles Dodgers.
A previous White Sox proposal to develop TEP as a site for a youth tournament complex was received tepidly.
Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry says the buyout’s likely the best deal the county could arrange.
sox clearly needed to free up some cash for this.
free chris getz!
i, for one, think that swisher (all things considered) would have been someone whose availability kw would have inquired about had he played 2008 for another team.
that’s why i find it so odd that he would sell at this price. in my office we call that hitting bottoms, aka amateur hour. it’s just such a bad risk-reward play.
Cashing checks and having sex.
i guess it's a geographical thing--out here hitting bottoms refers to something else entirely.
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
like when you watch that show
the one with the one with the strong legs
number one when it mattered!
yes?
"this is your life and it's ending one minute at a time."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 14, 2008 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
I am guessing that some out there will recognise this Genius.
In 1994 Chris Morris won Best Newcomer at the British Comedy Awards. Commenting on an outlandish performance by Meatloaf earlier in the evening, Morris accepted his award with the words: "I hope this will allow me to develop as bike a coke habit as Meatloaf." Meatloaf’s threats to sue were not backed up. Meanwhile, a second series of The Day Today was planned, but failed to materialise.
number one when it mattered!
"as bike a coke habit as meatloaf."
you brits truly are a strange brew.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 14, 2008 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
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