What Do We Know About the Impending Viciedo Signing?
by The Cheat on Nov 20, 2008 11:16 PM CST
314 comments
Dayan Viciedo was supposed to be introduced as the newest member of the White Sox in a press conference on Friday, but apparently visa issues--there's always visa issues--may have derailed the event, though not the signing itself. The terms of the contract are as of yet unknown, but Phil Rogers put us in the $11M ballpark and you guys keep talking about 4-5 years (though I'm unsure where that info originated).
Until Viciedo is officially signed and plays a few spring training games all we'll be able to do is speculate on his ability. Personally, I think the notion that he'll compete for a job as the starting 3B this year is laughable, but I also thought that Alexei Ramirez should have gone to the minors out of camp last spring and thought he would probably end up in AA when the Sox signed him just before Christmas. So what do I know?
What does Viciedo's contract tell us?
There aren't many comparables for Vicideo's contract or the situation which allowed him to become a 19-year old free agent. In the '96 draft, Scott Boras got a number of the draftees (including Sox first-rounder Bobby Seay) declared free agents after they were not tendered a contract offer within two weeks of the draft, which resulted in a number of ridiculous contracts, most notably Matt White's $10+M deal. More recently Boras tried to get Landon Powell declared a free agent when he completed his GED before he started his senior season of HS. But the best comparison has to be Kendry Morales, who like Viciedo defected Cuba and incited a bidding war as a free agent, ultimately settling for the following contract.
Kendry Morales
- 6 years/$4.5M (2005-10)
- signed by Angels as a free agent from Cuba (via the Dominican Republic) 12/04
- $3M signing bonus
- 05:$0.316M, 06:$0.35M, 07:$0.4M, 08:$0.5M, 09:$0.6M, 10:$0.7M
- minor-league salaries: o5:$0.1M, 06:$0.15M, 07:$0.2M, 08:$0.3M, 09:$0.35M, 10:$0.4M
- with 3 years of Major League service, may void remaining years of deal and go to arbitration
- total value may reach $10M with bonuses
- signed as a free agent from Cuba (via the Dominican Republic) 12/04
- agents: David Valdes, John Mano
I recalled the deal being reported as a $10M deal back then, but I now see that it's a well constructed split contract which is fair to both sides. (I hope the Sox are able to set up a similar mutually beneficial contract.) Morales is without question the best comp we have for Viciedo right now. Since being considered on the top prospects in all of baseball, his stock has fallen to that of a AAAA player; a guy who has crushed minor league pitching in favorable hitter's leagues who doesn't seem to possess either the plate discipline or power to merit an everyday spot in a major league lineup.
I'm interested to see the terms of the contract before I make any judgments, but I would think (without actually doing the proper research) that the reported $11M would be the most expensive major or minor league contract handed out to a player of Viciedo's age. It's a huge deal, but as was seen in '96, being a free agent inflates the value of the contracts offered. For some more timely perspective, it was speculated that Pedro Alvarez might receive a deal from $15M to upwards of $20M at free agency during the few days when it was speculated that might be declared a free agent.
When I say it's a huge deal, it's because $11M doesn't really represent any real cost savings over a first-rounder. Take the recently exported Nick Swisher, for example. He was drafted by Oakland in '02 at age 21 and signed for a $1.78M bonus. He spent all of '03 and most of '04 in the minors, drawing a small salary, before making the minor league minimum plus a small raise each of his first three seasons. He signed his current contract during the middle of his third pre-arbitration year, raising his salary to a pro-rated portion of $700K for the remainder of that season. Add in his $3.5M he made in the first full year of the contract, and Swisher has made something in the area of $6.7M in his 6+ years as a professional.
To use the most dynamic young third baseman in the league as an example, Evan Longoria got a $3M signing bonus out of college, spent a full season in the minors and played only 6 games in the majors before signing his current deal. That deal combined with his signing bonus has him making a conveniently comparable $11M in his first 5 years in the majors.
If the $11M figure is to be believed, along with it being a guaranteed major-league deal, the Sox won't really experience any savings from the deal unless Viciedo quickly makes the majors and quickly proves to be worth a huge deal like Longoria.
What does a major league deal mean?
More than anything, Viciedo signing a major league deal will effect his option status. Players on a major league contract are required to be on the 40-man roster, and as such have to optioned to the minor leagues once a year if they don't make the big league club. Thankfully, Viciedo should get the benefit of receiving a 4th option year, so it shouldn't affect the Sox too greatly. With all the hype some have heaped on Viciedo already, if he isn't contributing by the 4th year of his contract (when he'll be just 23 years old, mind you), he'll already have been labeled a Borchard-like bust.
So, is this a good signing?
The truth is, I don't know. The Sox didn't sign Viciedo looking to lock up some talent for a below market value. They signed him (or rather will sign him) to add more talent to their system. Period. The major league contract and the limitations that such a contract brings would seem to indicate their faith in Viciedo's talent, but the contract's overall value means Viciedo has to produce and produce relatively quickly to justify such a price. It's a substantially riskier signing than your average top prospect.
Note to Rogers, Merkin, Gonzo, and Cowley: If the deal is for the rumored less than 6 years, or even if it is, please ask if there is a free-agency-inducing clause at the end of the contract like Contreras and Iguchi had. For those that don't understand why such a question is important: If there's no such out clause, the Sox can take Viciedo to arbitration, if, after his contract has expired, he has not reached 6 years of major league serive.
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Thanks for the wet blanket Cheat
So you’re basically saying that expecting him to be Miguel Cabrera would be a mistake? Dammit, he should drown himself now and not waste our precious time.
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Nov 20, 2008 11:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or he could just drown his sorrows
in pork rinds and cheese whiz. Either way.
Knowing absolutely nothing at all about him except that he’s Cuban and 19 and allegedly pudgy, I can say with supreme confidence that this is the best deal ever signed by anybody anywhere. At least, I like it.
That out clause is big, though. Could be, anyway.
by jackie hayes on Nov 20, 2008 11:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I youtube'd him and he did not look all that pudgy. Looks like he is just big boned like Q!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNbklDEJFlE
Way to go danks
bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 21, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the song in that video
-Jeeves Life in the Cell
by jeeves on Nov 21, 2008 7:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he only has to have a couple below average seasons to be worth the money
but there are no guarantees for 19 year olds. still exciting though. i didn’t answer the poll…too hard.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 20, 2008 11:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's hard to compare him to other free agents
though he probably shouldn’t be compared to drafted players (or even the 16-year old international free agents) either.
It’s tough to determine “worth” given his situation and uncertainty
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Nov 20, 2008 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
based on the money they paid and what it costs per WARP these days
the baseline should be what we’d expect a 19 year old 1st round caliber talent to produce over how ever many years the contract is for. it’s not exact, but approximations are cool, yo.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 21, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Scot Gregor will be sobbing softly tonight
since Cheat left him off the list
FifthFeather.com
by El Duque's Raft on Nov 20, 2008 11:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think they already did in the free agent thread
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Nov 20, 2008 11:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wiz has got a bunch of links
http://www.southsidesox.com/2008/11/8/656758/dayan-viciedo-is-a-free-ag#9902664
and some ugly formatting
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Nov 20, 2008 11:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this signing excites me and i'm ready to see what the kid can do...although i voted for him to start the season at AAA
let’s hope he doesn’t get labeled a Joe Borchard in 4 years
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
by furby2056 on Nov 21, 2008 12:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
he hit for avg and power in cuba
Way to go danks
bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 21, 2008 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I went AA
Since there are those (I’m thinking Jenks) that completely bypassed AAA from AA. Alabama is warmer than NC and more welcoming to Latins, too.
From a holistic viewpoint.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where the Knights play is pretty damn warm during the summer, I could be wrong, but when I think you have to cross into South Carolina to see them play, it’s a pretty warm area. They aren’t in the northern part of North Carolina or along the coast.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking of spring, when hope springs eternal.
NC is a blast furnace (except in the mountains and by the ocean) but AL is really hot.
And I’m being semi-serious.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Putting on the optimism cap...
The unknowns about the structure of the deal and the out clause make the financial aspect hard to evaluate. But the worst case financially isn’t franchise crippling (this isn’t a Zito signing). So let’s just table that for now.
On the plus side, the Sox have shown a recognition that they need young talent and don’t have it. This is like the Sox paying above slot on a draft pick. Since I’ve been critical of their lack of spending on the draft in the past, it’s hard to be critical here. Moreover, if the plan is for Viciedo to replace Konerko (who would move to DH) at 1B in 2010, that seems like a decent idea.
I know that he’s not the same player skills-wise, but if Viciedo would be considered on a par with Yonder Alonso or Brett Wallace, I think it has to be a banner year for adding talent to the farm system when Beckham and Danks are thrown in. At least on paper the Sox top 10 prospects look a lot better than at this time last season.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 21, 2008 12:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
27 and Under Position Players:
-Alexei (2B/SS)
-Q! (Corner OF)
-Getz (2B/3B)
-Fields (4C)
-Betemit (UTE)
-Anderson (4th OF)
-Armstrong ©
-Beckham (2B/SS)
-Danks (CF)
-Allen (1B)
-Viciedo (1B/-3B)
-Morel (3B)
-Shelby (CF)
That’s not too shabby. Everyone except Danks and Morel will definitely debut at at least AA. Helps to have a double play combo locked up. If either Vazquez or Dye are moved for further youth, 2010 could be decent indeed. Needs: catching, OF, 3B.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 21, 2008 1:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
KW should did rebuild this team into a young squad quickly. So the Swisher trade still blows my mind, I’m still damn impressed overall considering where we were in 2007.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitchers, for the hell of it:
Starters
-Danks
-Floyd
-Richard
-Poreda
-Egbert
-Cassell
-Ely
-Carter
-Hudson
-Upchurch
4/5 of the rotation in 2010: 1)Danks 2)Poreda 3)Richard 4)Buehrle 5)Floyd and Egbert, Cassell and Ely could all be above replacement level…at some point. Carter = good. Hudson too. Upchurch is a ways off.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 21, 2008 1:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was extremely excited about getting Upchurch signed.
Finally the team began to pay for high upside talent.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes anyday." - AJ
by omnipotent grab on Nov 21, 2008 6:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot
Marquez and Nunez
I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.
by ElDiablo on Nov 21, 2008 6:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They have to be Badass
Considering what we gave for them.
I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.
by ElDiablo on Nov 21, 2008 6:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no i didnt.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 21, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
should I be laughing or crying?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted MLB
but then I realized that I projected Fields to be a middle of the line up run-producer. Fields will be on the move now for sure. Lets see what KDubs can get for him.
Way to go danks
bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 21, 2008 12:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
maybe he will be on the move for the passion
and we are getting furcal? We would have a pretty complete team by then.
Way to go danks
bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 21, 2008 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, were just moving salary for Sabathia.
Haven’t you been paying attention?
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Poll is incomplete
for I wish Viciedo to start his US professional career in the Hall of Fame
by billyok on Nov 21, 2008 1:00 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what does this mean for Beckham?
I thought he was going to be our 3b of the future?
Way to go danks
bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 21, 2008 1:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
He's a middle infielder who can play third.
Not a third baseman. He was only our third baseman of the future if we didn’t sign a third baseman.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well grinder
if ARam is our SS of the future… and Brian Roberts is being traded to the sox, that leaves no spot for Beckham.
Way to go danks
bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 21, 2008 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
except in the case that roberts leaves after his contract is over...
seeing as no one in their right mind would want to give him what he’ll demand.
plus, we won’t be trading for roberts.
by Craig Grebeck on Nov 21, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i got this from wikipedia....
On November 20, 2008, Viciedo signed a reported 5-year, $11 million US Major League deal with the Chicago White Sox of Major League Baseball’s American League7 He did so after trying out with many teams, including the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees.
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
by Jbasic89 on Nov 21, 2008 1:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Old news - was on last thread.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Since were talking about old news
I’m sure I missed it posted somewhere in all these Viciendo threads, how well did his try out go anyways? Were any other teams in the bidding?
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 8:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't remember any detailed reports
here’s one “report”
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/6109284.html
Were any other teams in the bidding?
yeah
I remember nyy and bos
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Torres said “quite a lot of clubs” were pursuing Viciedo. In the Dominican last week, all 30 major-league teams had scouts watching Viciedo during a two-day workout.
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=252768
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All 30 teams took a hard look at Viciedo during tryouts he held this month in the Dominican Republic, including one at the Sox’ facility there. The Yankees, Boston Red Sox and Houston Astros joined the White Sox in showing the most interest.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/1291817,CST-SPT-deluca21.article
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 22, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Visa, shmeeza...
The one thing we know about this NinoCubano is that he’s smart:
17 degrees this morning with a 3 degree windchill. This is the LAST place he wants to visit, signing or no signing.
Kenny don’t sign no dummies.
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 8:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
not sure if this has been posted...
but joe sheehan wrote an article in on the major awards the other day. his take on the al rookie of the year voting:
It kind of makes the biggest mistake in the AL—that at least half the pool thought Alexei Ramirez was better than Mike Aviles—look quaint. My god, that’s a huge error. They’re direct comps, and Aviles did essentially everything better than Ramirez did. Aviles had a better argument for edging out Longoria than Ramirez had for beating Aviles. Jacoby Ellsbury was also kind of a joke, since he was terrible for five months. Stolen bases, home runs, RBI… these shiny things just aren’t going away, and they’ll be cited by the voters at the exact same time that they’re talking about how baseball is played by people and can’t be reduced to statistics.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 9:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
and you (others too) were right about Frankie Rodriguez...
I was sure that the saves record would dazzle the voters into a 2nd place finish for Cy Young.
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sheehan wasn't able to conclude how much had to do with just how good lee and halladay were or whether the voters did a good job.
he did have this gem re: our buddy chris de luca:
On the other hand, at least four voters had Brandon Webb ahead of both pitchers, and many had him ahead of at least one of them, and that’s just wrong. Wins! Winning percentage! We’re all lobotomized! It just doesn’t seem possible that this message is still struggling to get through to some people: that wins for pitchers are an accounting tool—not a metric or a statistic that measures performance. There have been, and I am not exaggerating, tens of thousands of pieces written explaining that run prevention, strikeouts, walk and home-run rates, and ground-ball rates are how you evaluate pitching performance. These articles have all repeatedly stressed the notion that the “wins” category fills up based on factors out of the pitchers’ control, so much so that using that category at all is going to lead you to the wrong place. And yet…
“I thought Webb’s victories stood out to me more than anything, and Lincecum didn’t have the victories. Twenty victories was a big deal. We had a stretch there where no one was hitting 20.”
That’s Chris DeLuca of the Chicago Sun-Times, as quoted by John Shea of the San Francisco Chronicle, justifying not only his decision to list Webb first, but his leaving Lincecum off of his ballot entirely. DeLuca didn’t get the memo that starters get not only fewer wins, but fewer starts and fewer decisions these days, in addition to the two dozen other reasons why using wins as a criterion is galactically stupid.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago baseball writing = galactically stupid
It’s hard to argue against that…
by hitlesswonder on Nov 21, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
even the +/- system?!?
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Downey is leaving the Trib, I believe
With Unsilent Jay gone from the Sun-Times thats -2. Counter-intuitively, in this system negative numbers are indicating improvement….
by hitlesswonder on Nov 21, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And yet all the NinoCubano reporting comes from DeLuca and Cowley...
which means I’ll pull the JRE and ask…
“Where’s the you know what”?
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
chisox.com
White Sox, Viciedo reach agreement
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nope. not a pr, only quotes from Torres.
still waiting.
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aviles is better than Ramirez, I agree...stupid BP and their killjoy reality-mongering
I’m hoping the OBP fairy pays a visit and Alexei starts walking more…I know that sounds absurd, but Ramirez for all his “swing-at-anything” moments would at other times look oddly disciplined. So, here’s hoping. Oh, and a visit from the SS defense fairy would be good, too.
But 2008 alone has made the Sox investment in Alexei worthwhile IMO.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 21, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you are supposed to be Americans
what happened to first is first the rest is nowhere? So now we are having arguments over who came 2nd and 3rd, These guys must really hate Lexi as a baseball player, that they are even playing hamlet over him finishing second.
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and of course
taking Sheehan’s argument to it’s logical conclusion you wouldn’t need a Baseball Writers Vote at all, we could do the ROY purely on OPS and cut out all the arguments. He ought to be careful what he wishes for, he wouldn’t have anything left to write about.
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
negative.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
negative?
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes.
"taking Sheehan’s argument to it’s logical conclusion you wouldn’t need a Baseball Writers Vote at all, we could do the ROY purely on OPS " is false.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why is it false?
please explain
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because joe sheehan does not rely on ops as some ultimate indicator.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
fair enough, but why does he consider Aviles to better than lexi, and the only reason I can find on the numbers is that he gets on base more. Or maybe there are some other reasons, if there are please tell me
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
check out eqa, warp, win shares, etc.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2008 win shares
18 Lexi
17 Aviles
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ramirez 136 games, aviles 102
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ws is adjusted for games played non?
anyway this is dumb, having an argument about who finished second in a meaningless competition kind of illustrates my original point.
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's meaningless in the sense that yes, second place is the first loser.
not meaningless in the sense that the writers seem to be clinging to dated numbers to make decisions because they’re afraid of the new ones.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no. win shares are not adjusted.
they are a counting stat, not a rate stat. though you can find win shares converted into rate.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and Aviles had a BABIP rate of .359
does that not indicate he had a very lucky season and his OPS was very batting average driven?
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
short answer.
OBP, which is a huge difference, and defense. aviles good at a more premium position, alexei not so good at a somewhat less premium position.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, ok fine
but should these awards be purely based on these numbers? and I’m not saying that is wrong, I’m just thinking it’s a bit disingenuous to have a go at a load of baseball journo’s for following more amorphous reasons, for instance some of them might think that Lexi is more fun to watch than Aviles, and that might be part of the way they vote.
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 21, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think it should be based just upon numbers.
however, when the difference between players is as large as it was between aviles and ramirez, i’m not sure the amorphous reasons should overcome. this was not a situation where there was much of a debate regarding who put up the better numbers. aviles >>>> ramirez.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aviles is better than Ramirez?
I don’t think so pal.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 21, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Aviles is not on the Sox therefore hes not better than Che?
That would sound right coming from you.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes anyday." - AJ
by omnipotent grab on Nov 21, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you make a thorough argument. good points by both sides. this is tough.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 22, 2008 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I say we burn the witch.
"I'll take one in the mouth over the eyes anyday." - AJ
by omnipotent grab on Nov 22, 2008 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
are we sure he weighs as much as a duck?
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 22, 2008 12:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I got better
I'm like a laser, six-string razor. I've got a mouth like an alligator
by Nordhagen on Nov 22, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sourced by torres.
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so it isn't "according to ESPND", it's according to Torres.
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
chiburb does not trust torres, whether his statements are reported by espnd, chisox.com, or otherwise.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whatever. waste of my time.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as was the link to espnd
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
first place that's reported that it's a four year deal. sorry for passing along information.
and, fucking duh, where does a news organization get their information from but sources. your posts are the waste of time here.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also not sure why an agent would mislead about a finalized deal
Perceived player value and worth? Sure. Facts after a done deal? You got me. Just makes him look stupid.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 21, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
clearly he wants to poison the relationship he has with the chicago white sox.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd also note that the operable sentence in the article is
The four-year deal, worth $11 million, according to a club source, is expected to become official as soon as Viciedo clears a physical examination.
unless torres now works for the club it certainly seems open to interpretation as to from whom rojas go the information.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see double dashes instead of commas
The Chicago White Sox have agreed on a major league contract with Dayan Viciedo, regarded as Cuba’s best teen talent, his agent Jaime Torres said.
The four-year deal — worth $11 million, a club source told ESPNdeportes.com — is expected to become official as soon as Viciedo clears a physical examination.
if my reading is correct (and that’s a big if), it seems the “worth $11 million” part is attributed to the “club source”, but the “four-year deal” part is attributed to torres
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What does "is" mean?
This is like fucking Clinton. Let’s all relax until we get the official details.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sometimes it's best to leave seven hour old posts alone, eh?
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No. I bring it all into immediacy.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Far as I can read,
Wiz’ post was about 2 minutes old when I responded. I was responding to his parsing. TY.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh.
Sorry, I’m fighting with the wife. Defensive and under attack here. Mea culpa.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
go to the body.
it’ll wear her down for the later rounds.
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kill the body and the head will die.
I’ve heard that.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the reverse terri schiavo, eh?
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
are you alleging some sort of fraud here?
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that link has continued to be updated since last night.
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
any idea what the holdup would be for an official announcement?
surely the visa issue and getting the young man here doesn’t preclude an official release.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JRE needs to be notified first via press release.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we've now been treated to the operable language being quoted twice.
pick whichever one you want, commas or double dashes.
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 6:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my recollections of how this has gone down with signings in the past may not be correct,
but it seems strange that it’s taken this long and still the only official word on the sox website is from last night and includes a “ken williams would not comment.”
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
kind of need to pass a physical.
i would have thought most white sox fans would be especially aware of how it’s a good idea to have their team have a doctor take a look at a player and their medical records before acquiring them. but maybe you’re from the gillick school.
at any rate, the ramirez announcement took way longer than this has so far.
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so is the deal finalized or not?
as a white sox fan i think it’s a good idea to call a deal finalized when it’s actually finalized, not pending a physical or anything else.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the results of a physical might take longer
than a few hours, bro. Pa-tience. We got him.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
of course it's not "final".
isn’t the double quote above clear on that point?
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't let that that bother you from calling it final
:p
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you guys are right. i saw the finalized in jim's post and ran a li'l wild.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cowley says
“there will be a third Cuban on the Sox roster very soon.”
http://twitter.com/cst_sox/statuses/1015691239
you can take that to the bank!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 9:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant the terms of the contract.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 21, 2008 9:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no
probably it’s just updating by the espn writers…
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I found the conspirancy!
He slugged over .500 in two of the past three seasons in Serie Nacional. At 16, in his best season, Viciedo hit 14 homers.
http://www.beisbolcubano.cu/ has him slugging .542 in 2005, .399 in 2006, and .333 in 2007 (small sample size in 2007)
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that site hasn't been updated in awhile.
his 2007-8 numbers were above .500
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
are you saying the espn page is updated while the cuban isn't?
and you call yourself a communist?
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Larry and Wiz
can you post all of the numbers as legibly as you possibly can? My DNS is blocking the linked Cuban pages.
I’ll make ’em look really pretty and front page it if we can get the full stats…
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Nov 21, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
here are his career stats
ACTUACIÓN EN SERIES NACIONALES , SELECTIVAS Y SUPER LIGA OFENSIVA Y DEFENSIVA (Solo los participantes en la Ultima Serie (46)) OFENSIVA DEFENSIVA No. PROV APELLIDOS y NOMBRE SN CB VB C H AVE 2B 3B HR TB SLG BR CR CI SH SF DB BB BI SO BD IO JJ INN O A E TL AVE DP TP PB BR CR ... 515 VCL VICIEDO PEREZ. DAYAN 3 1001 868 117 248 .286 35 13 26 387 .446 5 9 124 11 6 27 89 20 151 32 0 270 2103.0 234 471 42 747 .944 59 0 0 0 0
http://www.beisbolcubano.cu/static/guiawebbeisbol/guiaweb.htm
his yearly stats haven’t been updated
or I’m not looking on the right place…
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i gotta admit, i'm a little disappointed with his JJs, but i'd say his Cs more than make up for it.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 21, 2008 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
these must be career numbers: .286 avg and .446 slg
and this one shows 1001 PAs
the above three added together result to 766 PAs
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
deluca says 1,045 ABs
fidel’s numbers suck…
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 22, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've always liked Chiburb's posts.
Sox in 2009!
by ballyb on Nov 21, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Liar.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
did somebody say...
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am experiencing serious grand mal seizures now.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that'll make the wife feel plenty guilty about fighting with you. you're welcome.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
She has no guilt. She's a Terminator.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
she's also jewish. in the world of guilt, that's gotta trump cyborg status.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For my daughter, perhaps.
For her and me, it matters not. Cold. Heartless. Indefatigable.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He plays short, too?
Does everyone in Cuba play SS?
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
si si
"God created [Republicans] because He was disappointed in the monkey." -- Mark Twain.
by Chiburb on Nov 21, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Same site, IQ testing ad:
“Jim Thome’s IQ is 113.”
Who took the test for him? Are they talkin’ “baseball IQ”?
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe it was testing his mood
113 must be between ‘hunky-dory’ and ‘top of the heap’
house money!!
by thecip on Nov 21, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very good.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN 1000
Probably old news, but just mentioned White Sox talking to Ray’s about a deal involving Dye and Edwin Jackson
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 11:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
im lazy
can someone post jacksons numbers? and hes still only about 23 years old, correct? how many years would we have him under control?
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
by The Deacon on Nov 21, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson's numbers
Here’s the link.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 21, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
Using Jim's impressive link
I’ve found that.. I’d much rather have the Edwin Jackson from 2003 than then 2008 version. That guy from 2003 sounded like he’d win a couple Cy Youngs before he was done.
The Future: Jackson is the complete package, and fits the profile of a top-of-the-line starting pitcher to a tee. He established himself as one of the elite prospects in baseball even before his September callup, and his performance all but guaranteed him a spot in the Los Angeles rotation for 2004. He’s the best homegrown pitching prospect the Dodgers have developed since Pedro Martinez, and they don’t plan on letting this one get away.
Apparently he has mechanical flaws leading to his poor pitching (just another random comment on one of the sites I found.. I don’t know if that’s actually true). If so, it’d fit the White Sox mold pretty well. Hard thrower, mechanical flaws, only going to be 25 next year.. sounds about right.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
those are some outstanding numbers.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
by The Deacon on Nov 21, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting
jackson certainly has intriguing potential, but who would be left to play the outfield? quentin in right, fields in left? BA and owens in the same outfield? maybe the jackson acquisition would lead to a vazquez deal that lands the sox an outfielder?
by Ryno on Nov 21, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tavares and Owens in LF and CF...can't have enough table setters
And no more stories about the “unathletic, plodding”…that would almost make all the losses worth it to me.
by hitlesswonder on Nov 21, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On a serious note...
I think the talk about Tavares and Owens in CF is rather premature. Just because KW may have fucked up the Swisher situation doesn’t mean that should be extrapolated out towards other areas. I mean come on — the dude played half his game at Coors, played in the worse league and in the worst division in baseball and still could barely muster a .300 OBP.
In other words, I’ll believe “Tavares = Sox CFer” when I see it.
by CWSKeith on Nov 21, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d assume it’d mean a move for an outfielder. Personally I’m fine with Anderson in center field, but Fields in left doesn’t do much for me.
Of course.. maybe they really liked what they saw out of Viciedo in the outfield?
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
highly recommended.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
for jim.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
flagged
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Nov 21, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
imitating colin
brndnprkns: I'm pretty sure the "badass" value of your life is closer to Gigli than The Dark Knight
by whitesoxmatt on Nov 21, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i really don't want to do that.
he seems like the type who takes that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery thing seriously.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
matt and colin have butt sex.
free chris getz!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sp?
Do you mean “but”, as it, “Matt and colin would have sex, but they aren’t aware of their true nature yet”?
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i also wondered whether "but" was appropriate,
but used to signify that they have lost their friendship and now have “but sex” in common.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
All right, I forgive you, and have to rec that.
Much more clever, though I was brave enough to put it out there first.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i admit i never would have put my foot in the water if you hadn't taken the plunge first.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Another question that needs to be asked on conference call
“You had the 8th overall pick in the draft. Viciedo was technically draft eligible, but nobody knew it. If you had known he was available, would you have selected Viciedo over Beckham?”
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Nov 21, 2008 1:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
reply delivered in deliberate, steady voice of kenny williams.
“Who let this douchebag on the call? Scott, what the fuck is going on in your department? Who is this guy?”
Scott mumbles a reply.
“Blogger? Shit. Get him off the call. Now. Blogs. What the fuck.”
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
could you imagine two pointed questions which, if not expertly dodged, should result in enlightening answers?
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Nov 21, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
KW is good at dodging questions though.
all you’d get was some bs and then some more bs prefaced by “but let me say this…”.
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Asked about a federal bailout for the auto industry, Obama responded, “I got the corned beef.”
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he would say this:
Draft Beckham, and then sign Viciedo as a free agent.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 21, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Nobody" knew
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 21, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Edwin Jackson is garbage......
there’s no way KW pulls the trigger on that deal.
by stanchar on Nov 21, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Fields and/or BA for E-Jax
I would be supportive
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 21, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i love when people are so put off by a post that they can't reply correctly.
it adds that certain je ne sais quoi that often doesn’t come through on the internet.
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Talked to a friend who used to work
with the MLBTR guy, apparently Yanks are shopping Swish to 6 NL teams, anyone hear anything about this?
"...fined for what, hittin' the ball into outer space?"
by Illini0509 on Nov 21, 2008 2:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
it's on MLBTR.
so yeah. not that surprised either. he’s a nice asset. shitty trade is shitty.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 21, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
was too lazy to actually see if he posted it – he feeds my buddy a lot of stuff he hears but can’t confirm (which he won’t post) and wasn’t sure if this fell into that camp. sorry.
"...fined for what, hittin' the ball into outer space?"
by Illini0509 on Nov 21, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it would be a kick in the nuts
to see a better haul… but its really not that hard to beat our haul unless this move was made to purely cut salary, ie viciedo, and ???
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
by The Deacon on Nov 21, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with that is..
Even if it was a salary dump.. doesn’t mean you move that salary for garbage.
I think everyone is fine with moving Swisher for whatever reasons Kenny thought worthy of moving him. The problem is moving him for garbage prospects.
by Grinder in Training on Nov 21, 2008 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nope...he's going to tampa for gabe gross...then he can have a mohawk and be even more awesome
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
by furby2056 on Nov 21, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes. now the nl has 17 teams and the al 13.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thank god. going to an 82 game schedule?
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
only if they shorten the preseason by a couple of games.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 21, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I always viewed the Padres liking Swish
before he sucked, that is. I thought maybe Swish for Kouzmanoff could have been done this offseason, but now I see why that would have been impossible. I don’t know why the Yankees would have acquired him if they were going to trade him, unless they think paying a substantial amount of his contract could lure a team’s younger players.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 21, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
missed it hardcore lare
takes some real stones for the one certifiable cocksucker on here to jump into this convo.-mm
by furby2056 on Nov 21, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By the by -
We really have 29% of pollsters thinking a 19 year-old will start on the major league roster this year?
Oy.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 7:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
HE'LL BE 20 ON OPENING DAY!
DUH!
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Nov 21, 2008 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG!!! OMG!!! HE'S SOOOOOOOOOO DREEEEEEAAAAAMMMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!
by larry on Nov 21, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No - he allegedly has junk in his trunk.
A male Serena Williams without the rack.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 7:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mmmmm
Serena
I think we ought to call Thome and Konerko the "Cholesterol Brothers" because of the way they clog the bases.
by bhoov on Nov 21, 2008 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*boner*
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
by Jbasic89 on Nov 22, 2008 3:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like
big butts and I can not lie.
I think we ought to call Thome and Konerko the "Cholesterol Brothers" because of the way they clog the bases.
by bhoov on Nov 22, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you like bulging biceps and massive shoulders too
by 3E8 on Nov 23, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
actually give
me a 5’ 10 " amazon with a big butt flat stomach and big tits and that would do it for me. yep.
larrys fortune cookie: you will learn much and have the advantage of not reading my pompous responses.
by bhoov on Nov 26, 2008 11:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
as billyok said
the poll lacks a ‘hof’ option!
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my vote was aspirational
Why so serious?
by reardenmettle on Nov 21, 2008 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did we do one with Che last year - I just wonder what the results then would have been
Don't look back because we are going forward!
by Brush Back on Nov 21, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rock Raines to manage Neward Bears
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3717532
Figures. A black man has to manage in Newark.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 7:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or Newark. Whatever.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 21, 2008 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was doing it from a Nat Turner pissed-off perspective.
I mean, Newark? What an armpit.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 22, 2008 6:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
http://smellslikemascot.blogspot.com/2008/11/droop.html
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 9:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
World Famous StatSpeak Roundtable: November 21
Question #1: Why did Kenny Williams sell low on Nick Swisher? Did Kenny Williams sell low on Nick Swisher?
http://statspeak.net/2008/11/world-famous-statspeak-roundtable-november-19.html
The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.
by The Wizard on Nov 21, 2008 9:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
what a fucking douchebag
Colin Wyers: I’ll be honest. As a Cubs fan I tend to read a lot of the Chicago sporting press and I continually wonder how the White Sox hover near contention at pretty much any time. About the nicest thing I can say about Williams without lying is that he’s smarter than Hawk Harrelson, which is kind of like being wetter than sand.
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
by Jbasic89 on Nov 22, 2008 3:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That guy needs to go to sleep.
MM, I believe you have the contacts and genetic predisposition…
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 22, 2008 6:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I left a couple comments
I thought about going further, but there’s not much of a point. But I am curious how a Cubs fan got permission to ride the world’s tallest horse.
EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine
by Sox Machine on Nov 22, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
great comments
by colin and jim over there.
12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez
by The Deacon on Nov 23, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Must be nice to have a GM who can assemble some awesome paper champions
Maybe next fall Lou will take Zambrano out after 3 innings so he can rest for Game 7 of the World Series.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
they compete in the easier league too
and the NL Central has been dogshit for years.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 22, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love how he pulls some 3 year old FJM shit
Insulting Kenny for the “smallball” stuff. I mean, it’s not like Lou Pinella has ever said stupid catch phrases before. If the Cubs didn’t have a headlock on their fans who accept failure as part of the fandom, they would understand the concept of an ad campaign and marketing in order to attract people to the stadium.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my comment there:
"you’re really coming off as someone who doesn’t pay close attention. kenny’s teams have always had sluggers precisely because he understands park factor. it’s not an accident the team led the league in FB%. kenny gets that too. you’re talking about the things he says. if the guy is known for making trades that no one ever sees coming (that is to say, the organization never leaks useful information), why would you suppose he’d be providing worthwhile information in an interview? haven’t you noticed the gaudy and expensive marketing campaigns?
this team’s PR department carefully controls its image and brand, far more so than efforts i see from the cubs and tigers (i’m in ann arbor atm). that isn’t surprising. the tigers have no competition in detroit and the cubs are a completely saturated brand. if the cubs HAD to do these things the Sox do, as the little brother of the city’s teams, i wonder if they wouldn’t have won a championship already."
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 22, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Age
I wonder if Cuban players have their age mis-respresented as much as other players from the Caribbean. I guess probably not, since they’re not trying to sell themselves to major league teams – or at least, they’re not supposed to be doing that. Just wondering Viciedo might be a few years older than he lets on…
by FAQ on Nov 22, 2008 8:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Look at his TV appearance. He's no older than 20. He is a kid.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 22, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry
a standard part of the white sox physical is to take a bone sample and carbon date the player.
by larry on Nov 22, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
if they would have just counted the rights, we'd probably have a finalized transaction by now.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the rings, not rights. dammit.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now that's funny, I don't care where you're from.
Rec’d.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 22, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no more michigan football. no more white sox. and it's only going to get colder.
what the fuck.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 22, 2008 3:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
hockey, bitch, hockey.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hockey Night in Canada tonight -- can't fucking wait
I think I may have to get me some Labatt in honor of HNIC.
by CWSKeith on Nov 22, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm excited for some live hockey wednesday in san jose. hopefully the 'hawks stay on a roll.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Flagged
Unamerican
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 22, 2008 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, not like 4 of the original 6 were american teams.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not a good enough percentage.
Kenwo4life=ratings
by KenWo4LiFe on Nov 22, 2008 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's un-American because it's unpopular
Only Communists and Canucks watch shit that can’t be easily seen through the lenses of pop culture.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2008 10:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and do you really wish for the football season to continue at this point?
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i feel like it never happened
2005 was tough because we were in every single game, but this was just shitty. You couldn’t actually care too much. No one can deal with that much losing and suck and end up rational, fanwise.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 22, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
never underestimate the power of denial.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Fan" is a term describing irrational behavior.
And, yes, Michigan sucked. It is the worst year in the Dow’s history. It is the worst year in Michigan’s history. The sooner you pull your head out of your ass, the better off you will be. If you remain numb, you are dead. Feel the pain, learn, assimilate, and grow.
Now, relationships, THAT is where you need the power of denial and rationalizaton and projection and reaction-formation and…
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 22, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Said with much respect.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 22, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why the need to qualify? we all know you're classy at times.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't help but notice you threw the dow in there, too. who cares? we're talking about michigan football. this is serious shit. shit that affects people on a large scale. stay focused. no one wants to hear about your hobbies. noone too.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 22, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
besides, ole miss is trying to beat lsu today. that, my friend, is newsworthy.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 22, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not as noteworthy as harvard beating yale
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 22, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
flagging myself for mentioning the harvard vs yale game
has no place in sss
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 22, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
just go ahead and flog yourself for that too while you're at it.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how did you know i was into s&m?
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 22, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
on a unrelated note,
i’m ‘really’ coming out to bay area for personal, work-related stuff in april. if you and rhythm are around, pints at dylan’s pub or a’s game.
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 22, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
excellent. i'm sure rhythm will even bring a ball gag.
"god damn! we just had a near-life experience, fellas."
by Toonderstrook on Nov 22, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's about time you "came out".
The Bay Area is an excellent place to do that. Very supportive.
For some reason I feel like having a Cuban sandwich.
by winningugly on Nov 23, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Harvard beating Yale is always noteworthy...
and always has a place in every discussion ever…
Why so serious?
by reardenmettle on Nov 22, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let Harvard have their football and academics.
Yale will always be first in gentlemanly club life.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Nov 22, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In that New Haven has more strip clubs than Cambridge?
Why so serious?
by reardenmettle on Nov 22, 2008 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
there are strip clubs in cambridge???
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 22, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so; if there are any in New Haven, I am correct
Why so serious?
by reardenmettle on Nov 23, 2008 1:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
can we all agree that ND losing to syracuse is the funniest thing to happen today?
what a clown show! weiss is such a fat piece of shit. good thing they’ll never be outcoached. i’d hate to see how bad that could have gotten.
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 22, 2008 5:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
?? what is this all about?
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 22, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
college football.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 22, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes.
losing to Syracuse is like losing to us.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 22, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I used to loathe ND athletics
But a kid from my high school made the team as a walk-on Rudy style a few years ago, earning my casual acknowledgment that they do in fact exist.
by Ozzie Montana on Nov 22, 2008 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
weiss' fupa is hot
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
by Jbasic89 on Nov 23, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jones - would he be a good fit for us in CF?
the dodgers don’t want him any more and if we can cook up some kind of deal where the money is split then I think he might be worth the risk.
thoughts?
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 23, 2008 12:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
NO
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
by Jbasic89 on Nov 23, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that as a negative then
but I was hoping for some kind of, you know, discussion!
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 23, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see why not
he is the best centerfielder there is, after all
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 23, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he just looks done, is all.
Chone projects him as average in center still, so there’s that. But his K rate has skyrocketed his power has evaporated. He can’t hit for enough average anymore, it appears, for him to be worthwhile.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 23, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he can't hit a goose with a frying pan
he would instead try to get the goose in the frying pan, I fear.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 23, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i feel like if this is a live goose, then that would be hard to begin with.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 23, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would say, a cow's arse with a banjo
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 23, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do they cook cows in banjos in england?
or have i missed the whole intent of this discussion?
Cashing checks and having sex.
by MarketMaker on Nov 23, 2008 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well | have a feeling that
he will be the Sox starting centre fielder next year. There is no way he can be as bad as what he was the last two years, get the dodgers to pay some of his wages and we have low risk.
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 23, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
A platoon of BA/JO/D-Wise would probably be better overall.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 23, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you think Wise will still be on the 25 man roster?
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 23, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't agree with that
there’s only one guy of the three who can play replacement level defense in center.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 23, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We don't know how that could fluctuate
Owens covered a hell of a lot ground in 07, and I really don’t know enough about his injuries and recovering to speak on it. Still, BA can singlehandedly make the lefty hitting part of a CF platoon. According to UZR, they were the same in 07.
by Daniel Berlyn on Nov 23, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wise and Anderson were both good in center this year
and Owens should have enough makeup speed to be good enough
His stats are as good as Fields -- that's the sad thing
by Jbasic89 on Nov 23, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wise was not good in center this year.
Owens does not have enough “makeup speed”. I assure you that neither are legit CF.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 23, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what is 'makeup speed'?
is that where you compensate for being shit by being able to run really fast?
number one when it mattered!
by hoodlight on Nov 23, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The consensus on SSS and in the d-metrics
is that Owens is not a good CF in terms of range. His arm makes it that much worse. He’s not a viable option.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 23, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think we need a fanshot on this mofo of a topic
get to it hoodie
by onlysoxfaninboston on Nov 23, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he's got 18 mill left iirc
the Dodgers would seriously have to pay like 13 of that for it to be worthwhile. i suppose they might do that considering he’s basically an 18 million dollar sinkhole otherwise. a 1 year contract is never going to kill you, but BA is probably just as good at this point and comes at 1/5 of the cost in this scenario.
it’s not the worst idea, but this looks more like the move of a second tier team looking to get in on some upside rather than a top tier team, which the Sox would appear to be.
nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team
by colintj on Nov 23, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs