Evolution at Work: Konerko-for-Figgins becomes Dye-for-Votto-for-Figgins

Why on earth...

would the Reds trade Joey Votto for Jermaine Dye? LSD in the water in Cincinnati?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 20, 2008 2:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's just redic

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 2:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ummm

I believe the correct term is “redonkulous.”

by Linnwood on Dec 20, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Drugs.

Somehow 1+ year of Jermaine Dye = many years of a very cheap 120+ OPS+ player

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 20, 2008 2:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That makes no sense for anybody but the Angels

Sox get Figgins for Dye – No.
Reds get Dye for Votto – Hell No.
Angels get Votto for Figgins – Hell yeah.

This is just stupid.

by JoeCoolMan24 on Dec 20, 2008 2:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

you forgot that we also get kotchman and garland too

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Dec 20, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to fuel this...

But is Owens is included, no deal.

by JoeCoolMan24 on Dec 20, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what is going on?

what exactly is this trade, because there is no way we would be trading dye for chone figgins straight up like that. i would assume we’d also be getting homer bailey from cinci

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Dec 20, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Figgins + Santana/Adenhart

by JoeCoolMan24 on Dec 20, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+ $10M

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

3 great minds think alike.

It’s gonna happen.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 20, 2008 2:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I had to post it though

It’s on the WWL, it must be true…

Also, TO is angry that he wasn’t mentioned

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 20, 2008 2:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

But...

you just pacified TO for about 3.5 repeating of course seconds with a shout out here

by Samuroth on Dec 20, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Daniel Cabrera signed with the Nationals.

One less option for that 5th spot. I read the other day that the Sox were one of 3 teams involved with Jon Garland. Right now I’d take him. Better than Marquez.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 20, 2008 3:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Second Homecoming

I think jon wouldn’t be apposed to comeback here, I mean it appeared him and behurle were pretty tight, and he knows most of the club house, and manager etc. If the sox are close in offers with the others, i think he’d choose them no?

by Samuroth on Dec 20, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That sucks

http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/nationals_daniel_cabrera_agree.html

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 20, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sucks that they got him for a freakin' one year contract

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 21, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or is he?

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Once again, I'm compelled to say

I don’t understand how someone with Marquez minor league numbers is even being considered for anyone’s rotation. What the hell.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 20, 2008 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cabrera ain't so hot

all you have to do is be a marginal fifth starter, which isn’t impossible for Marquez to do

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought you were questioning whether Garland was better than Marquez...

But either way, while it’s not impossible for Marquez to be a marginal 5th starter it’s incredibly unlikely. Look at this AAA WHIP, K/BB and K/9. It’s bad. Egbert seems like a more plausible prospect to me.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 20, 2008 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stop with the Garland.

Too expensive. Kenny maxxed him out in time – why go back to that well once too often?

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 20, 2008 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I neither expect nor want garland signed

Again, I was just surprised someone thought Marquez would possibly be as good as Garland in 2009.

What I do want is Kenny to not leave ST with this team. It’s stuck between rebuilding and trying to contend right now. They need a major league starting pitcher at the least to even think about contending. If getting that is infeasible, and I think it probably, Kenny needs to trade to go even younger and rebuild in earnest.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 20, 2008 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

agree on Egbert

but there might be something to Marquez. His past GB rates have been quite strong and his K rates were acceptable. He sort of hit a wall in AAA, but the talent is there to be in the back end of a rotation.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i don't think you're right about his K rates being acceptable.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2008 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

enough to warrant potential back of the rotation

at least before 2008

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

his MLEs suck regardless of the year.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2008 12:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

referring to his Ks specifically.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2008 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You can do worse than .617/9 over your career

I’m not going to write him off completely for lack of stuff. It isn’t much worse than Richard’s. I’m not expecting much, but 5/6th starter is feasible.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 21, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone is feasible. Even this guy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/sports/baseball/21pitcher.html?ref=todayspaper

Raccoon pelts for $25. JR would love this guy. Think the D’backs would trade with us after the Q fleecing?

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 21, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know that kid...

He played at the community college here in Peru. He was on the same team as a guy i work with…. Says that his changeup was unhittable… and they rode his arm deep into the playoffs…

On top of that if you read the article, he is just a really nice guy, hard worker.

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 21, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Marquez would be a good subject for an offseason writeup by someone running this site

He’s given up more than a hit per inning his entire career rookie to AAA. In 2007 in AA he had K9 of 5.4 and BB9 of 2.5. The only thing looks maybe positive is his HR9 before 2008. His ERA doesn’t appear terrible at a couple of stops, but IIRC that’s one the least predictive minor league pitching stats…

To my eye, I see a guy with lousy numbers (esp. WHIP and K) from rookie to AAA. He never came close to dominating anywhere and he was especially bad last year at his highest level. His AFL numbers don’t even look that good to me.

I just don’t see how this guy is a rotation candidate. Am I missing something?

by hitlesswonder on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's what I got for Marquez

Strikeout rates at Triple-A:

Garland: 5.85

Marquez: 3.70

Garland had one of the lowest strikeout rates in the majors, and even he was two K’s better per nine than Marquez. He definitely has his work cut out for him. I’m thinking the Marquez rhetoric is smoke-blowing at this time.

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 20, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's a blunt evaluation, to say the least.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, I'm going by KW's description

Since he’s seen him throw more than I have (zero). He described him as a Garland type, but even Garland could miss a bat. And he was three years younger than Marquez at the time.

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 20, 2008 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

garland threw mid 90's in high school...

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Dec 21, 2008 2:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The AAA sample size is kinda small for both pitchers

If you use career minor league numbers they come out closer

— Garland / Marquez —

H9 = 9.08 / 9.46
HR9 = 0.59 / 0.55
BB9 = 3.20 / 3.07
K9 = 6.41 / 6.36
WHIP = 1.37 / 1.39

by 3E8 on Dec 21, 2008 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

park and league adjustments?

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not looking to do a thesis on this

Yes they played in different leauges and most importantly had a 3-year gap in age. Just trying to expand on Jim’s post slightly to show some of their minor league numbers differed by a very small percentage

by 3E8 on Dec 21, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i asked because i didn't know if their careers progressed similarly

where were they and how old were they? that seems pretty relevant.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Quote from a BBTF reader re: positional adjustments

“Justin, now that I know you’re a finance major like I was, I know you understand the concept of differing marginal values. Just like the difference between a 200 OPS+ and a 190 OPS+ is more valuable than the difference between 110 and 100, the claim here is that being 7.5 runs over average defensively at short is more valuable than 7.5 runs over average at first. It’s not that you’re comparing him to second basemen now. It’s that the 7.5 run difference is harder t accomplish at short than 1b, and hence, more valuable. You can’t straightline compare the two as we’ve been doing lo these many years”

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2008 4:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

thread

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The only part that confused me there was the OPS+ comparison

I figured going from a 100 to a 110 OPS+ would be more valuable than going from 190 to 200 because I thought the latter was basically at a point of diminishing returns — in other words, you’re already so good at a 190 OPS+ that moving to a 200 OPS+ isn’t a huge deal, but moving from a 100 to 110 OPS+ takes you from average to a decent amount above average. I’d also think that moving up from 100 to 110 would represent a bigger percentage increase (expressed as a percentage of regular OPS, if that makes sense) than going from 190 to 200.

by CWSKeith on Dec 20, 2008 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would have to agree with this sentiment

I can agree that 5 runs difference for SS are more important than 1B, but at the point of 190-200 it’s basically just piling on.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Its in how the number is structured

OPS+ is a normalized curve of values, so if you plot the OPS+ value for every major league hitter as a bar graph, you end up with a bell curve. This is important, because OPS+ normalizes your OPS to your era, which is why it can be used to judge players from different eras.

Anyway, the value in having a 200 OPS+ is its scarcity. Its way out on the right hand side of the curve. A 110 OPS+ is above average, but not by much. So, its much easier to find someone else that has a 110 OPS+ if your 100 OPS+ guy can’t make the step. Whereas, you’re not going to find a guy with a 200 OPS+ anyway, so if your 190 guy can do it, awesometastic.

And yes, I guess it is a bit of ‘piling on’, but its ‘piling on’ at HoF level and if you can get your HoF guy to play like a top tier HoF guy you do that. Because there will never be more then one or two of those guys in the league and performing at their peak at a time.

Make sense? if not, lemme know, I’m a bit tired at the moment.

by coffeepac on Dec 22, 2008 12:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's very helpful

thanks

-Jeeves Life in the Cell

by jeeves on Dec 22, 2008 1:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 22, 2008 4:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

but I still don’t get why it’s more important than an excellent shortstop, unless it’s a linear graph because it is all measured in present terms.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 22, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah i'm not sure on that one.

that wasn’t really the part that i liked best anyway, so i’m not sure why i quoted it.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 20, 2008 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm

Wasn’t Dye being dangled for “younger” players?

That’s what I thought he was getting us.

This would be just dumb

by Option27 on Dec 20, 2008 5:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

BTB on Daniel Cabrera

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/20/698355/what-s-all-the-fuss-part-1

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 20, 2008 7:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I have neither the will nor the rod up my ass

to plow through that shit

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 20, 2008 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You can just focus on the pretty pictures if you want.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 21, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To be honest, I read bits and pieces,

but I just don’t see the point in compiling all that information to see that Cabrera is a waste of talent who’s losing talent.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 21, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If he was making the point that Cabrera is due for a breakout or is just mishandled, it would be different,

but he’s just telling us stuff we know. I’m sure he’ll use his understanding and knowledge in more practical ways in the future. It’s a lot easier to prove that a seemingly bad player will be bad than a seemingly bad player will be good.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 21, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Found this little gem

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/7411340/11257372

Nothing groundbreaking, but a nice little ’nopsis on what I believe are the Sox top 5(though not in that order).

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

nice article

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 20, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks.

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Dec 21, 2008 2:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

becks has the upside of utley??

is that too optimistic, even for the upper limit? i don’t know much, but just surprised, that’s all.

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 21, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i like that danks has the upside of sizemore

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Dec 21, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's all overly optimistic, imo.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

by madvillian on Dec 21, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha, i couldn't even read past beckham

but is our top 5 better than the top five of the last few years, hells yes

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 21, 2008 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sox eyeing Taveras

The White Sox and Nationals are two other clubs believed to be eyeing Taveras.

http://mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081220&content_id=3724308&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp

btw, willy gets a 1.39 speed score on pizza cutter’s calculations

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 20, 2008 7:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I heard the White Sox were involved with Willy Taveras

and I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLnJFykb6G0

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 20, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ROFL

COPTER

by Samuroth on Dec 20, 2008 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyone else with me in the feeling that Chone Figgins sucks?

He gets hurt every year. We got rid of Podsednik for the same thing. Granted Figgins is better than Podsednik was…..but it isn’t like he is Kenny Lofton or Rickey Henderson or Marquis Grissom or Lance Johnson. I am not a fan of his. If they were to trade Dye for Votto….just keep Votto.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 20, 2008 11:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

orly?

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2008 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, Figgins isn't very good and is coming off a very bad season

I don’t want him anywhere near this club, especially for Dye. If Dye gets traded I want prospects, not 30 year old speedsters with mediocre offense.

by madvillian on Dec 21, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i want a black grinder not named jerry owens in my starting line-up

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 21, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

did somebody just ask for Dewayne?

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Dec 21, 2008 10:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hey hey hey

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 22, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's a slightly below-average hitter by OPS+, but is OBP-heavy.

He’s a good base-stealer and good baserunner. He’s a good fielder at decently important positions. He’s at least league-average overall.

Podsednik couldn’t hit at all and played left field. Much worse than Figgins.

The Sox should probably prefer Figgins to Dye. Both have one year contracts. Figgins is better (although I’m unsure of the Sox 3B situation). And the market might make a corner outfielder relatively cheap to sign to replace Dye (Abreu/Dunn/Burrell/Bradley).

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 21, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Podsednik was good for one season with the Sox

Figgins is usually good, but Dye is likely to kick in his mutual option when the time comes and you need power in the Cell. Dye is at least sure to provide that power, while the Sox would use Figgins in center. I don’t see it happening, anyway. The Angels should be smart enough to find cheap power if they need it so badly. Best just to keep Dye in the current market.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 21, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Correction

Pods was good for the better part of one season…that is, when he wasn’t hurt.

:)

-Jeeves Life in the Cell

by jeeves on Dec 21, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

key sentence

“He’s at least league average overall.”

We don’t need aging league average or slightly better given the current “rebuilding plan”. We need young pitching that’s near major league ready or similiar prospects.

Trading Dye isn’t about this year, unless somehow KW manages to find some change in his sofa.

by madvillian on Dec 21, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well that's a good point.

While Dye for Figgins should be a “yes” for the Sox, there are probably better deals to be made.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 21, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

comparing him to podsednik and saying he's "better"

Is like reason #3494949292 to make this trade.

by madvillian on Dec 21, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Am i the only one who wants to wait

and see on Marquez? It seems everyone really dislikes this guy, but I want to give him a chance. I trust that Kenny knew what he was doing.

I just want to see how he does in ST before I cast him off as major-suck.

by JoeCoolMan24 on Dec 21, 2008 12:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

yeah i agree

give him a chance. a lil ST suckage never hurt anyone

larry has that system down to a science. Especially with the way the economy is….big wigs like larry coming in dressed in their mink coats and 24k gold cigarrete holders with pockets lined with coke make for a large draw during shift changes.
by BobbySouthSide on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

by Jbasic89 on Dec 21, 2008 2:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No! No chance.

BA never got a chance!!! cough

www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com

by Raf on Dec 21, 2008 3:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, give him a chance sure...

But he isn’t very good.

by madvillian on Dec 21, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

random question folks, but is there a baseball biography book you would recommend for

an 10 year old?? i heard the boy wrote up a recent book report on jackie robinson, and he loves and plays baseball. looking for neither cheesy/apple pie like nor overwhelmingly real (e.g., eight men out).

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 21, 2008 2:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I loved his books as a kid

http://www.amazon.com/Kid-Tomkinsville-John-R-Tunis/dp/0152425675

by madvillian on Dec 21, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks!

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 21, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fielding Bible had Crede +13 and Chone at +11 in 2008.

i could live with:

1. Figgins, 3B
2. Getz, 2B
3. Q!, RF
4. Thome, DH
5. Konerko, 1B
6. AJ, C
7. Ramirez, SS
8. Owens, CF
9. Fields, LF

If Chone can reproduce his career 0.356 OBP and play plus D at 3rd, he would be a breath of fresh air leading off. And as much as everyone hates JO here, he’s better than any free agent CF out there defensively, period. Dye is the worst defensive OF out there other than Manny. Good riddance.

by Andronicus on Dec 21, 2008 5:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

better as in "more talented" ?

and Dye is not the worst defensive OF out there other than Manny. there are a ton of crappy corner OFs.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 21, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am just not that enamored with a guy with a 96 career OPS+ who can't stay healthy

Sure his defense is good, but it hardly makes him a difference maker on this club.

He’s the type of a guy a good team with a very specific weakness adds to put them over the top, not sure what exactly he does for the Sox, in what has repeatedly been described as a transition year.

by madvillian on Dec 21, 2008 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs