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Texeira Signs With Yankees, Where's That Leave Swisher?

I really can't wait to see the Yankees' luxury tax figures after this third blockbuster free agent signing.  Also, it looks like Swisher might not even start next year for the Yankees after this signing.  Thoughts?

Star-divide

Buster Olney says they've reached an agreement on an eight-year deal worth more than $170MM.

Jon Heyman also mentions the possibility of a full no-trade clause.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141

SouthSideSox is a community driven site. As such, users are able to express their thoughts and opinions in a FanPost, such as this one, which represents the views of this particular fan, but not necessarily the entire community or SouthSideSox editors.

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Two thoughts popped in my head

1) Their needs to be a salary cap in baseball and after this summer, I believe that MLB will look into it cause this is just stupid. Rumor has it that they are still the favorites to get Lowe too.

2) I’m glad the White Sox aren’t in the AL East

by Option27 on Dec 23, 2008 2:40 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup. totally need a salary cap.
2008: $209,081,577
2007: $189,639,045
2006: $194,663,079
2005: $208,306,817
2004: $184,193,950
2003: $152,749,814
2002: $125,928,583
2001: $112,287,143

8 for 8 in winning the world series. i don’t even know why the white sox showed up in 2005, what with the yankees spending almost three times as much as them.

by larry on Dec 23, 2008 2:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

larry, we don't have nearly enough regulation these days.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 2:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gosh, you're right.

i think the rest of the teams should ask the government for a bail—-er, i mean, a bridge loan so that they can compete effectively with the high spending teams who dominate from year to year. you know, like the yankees and tigers, the teams who had to pay the luxury tax, did in 2008.

by larry on Dec 23, 2008 3:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know your point

But my point isn’t that spending money automatically gets you a ring. In fact, it seems as if lately, it rarely does.

My point is that this economy is shit and the Yankees are just making a mockery of sports with this kinda spending.

by Option27 on Dec 23, 2008 3:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you mean they're putting their revenue back into the team instead of hanging onto their money?

god, what assholes. you know, maybe it’s the other owners that are making a mockery. i know, i know. a crazy thought.

by larry on Dec 23, 2008 3:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry I get your point

But don’t beg for money for your stadium then spend $400 million on players. Owners pocketing money on the low end is horseshit also. But this is out of control, even if it is just perception.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 3:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Politicians can say no, yes?

Anyone job the system? Responsibility begins at home. Shut off the handouts, perhaps, but don’t blame the guys that get the $ – you’d do the same. This ain’t the Red Cross.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 3:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bloomberg specifically I assume?

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 3:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bloomberg and city council, although bloomberg has quite a bit of sway over the council

it’s your pretty typical “you scratch my back I’ll scratch your back” sort of relationship, at least until the term limits thing this past fall

by madvillian on Dec 23, 2008 4:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't beg for money?

how about, don’t give them the money? the yankees would be dumb to have not asked, especially since they got it. ask a yankees fan if they think it was stupid for them to get someone else to pay for their stadium while they get to put that money to use on players.

the yankees give fuck all about this perception. as well they should. their responsibility is to their fans. and they serve them just fine.

and i might remind the other teams about the sold out stadiums they have when the yankees come to town.

by larry on Dec 23, 2008 3:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know what you mean

I totally agree with your points. But it really does suck for every other market in the league to have to duel with this monster known as The Yankees.

by Option27 on Dec 23, 2008 5:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure it sucks, but I don't see how that holds any relevance re: implementing a salary cap.

I love it when people cry wolf about small market teams not having a chance in baseball and act like the salary cap would cure all. Let’s look at the NBA and NFL (two leagues with a cap) last two title games… Giants versus Patriots and Celtics versus Lakers. I know that’s (obviously) an imperfect way of looking at things, but a salary cap doesn’t do a whole lot. Too much front office incompetence is usually the bigger culprit. Hell, I’d much rather the NHL didn’t go to a fucking cap, as now the Hawks are gonna have a tough time keeping a good amount of their current core.

by CWSKeith on Dec 23, 2008 6:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think its a direct relation either

but implying the salary cap doesn’t work or isn’t haven’t a tremendous impact because of the last few champs in the NBA and NFL is wrong.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 6:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do agree because of the nauture of the sport

A cap in MLB would be the “least” effective of the major sports.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 7:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think theNFL is a good example

the team parity in the NFL, is a heck of a lot bigger

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 23, 2008 7:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What does that mean? "Parity?"

I’d argue that could be just as much a product as the NFL’s (absurd, stupid, all of the above and more) decision to make four divisions per league, so you have shit teams like the Arizona Cardinals (and whoever wins the NFC North) actually making the playoffs. And even there I’m not seeing it…

by CWSKeith on Dec 23, 2008 8:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was trying to talk about the different teams that have a shot at the playoffs in the NFL

seems to me like the diversity is bigger in the NFL, maybe parity was the wrong word…

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 23, 2008 8:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if parity is the approximate distance between teams

or the amount of time taken between being bad and being good, then the NFL has the most of any professional league. and it’s why i really really don’t like it. the talent is stretched way too thin and it’s too hard to aggregate talent and then keep it. the salary cap makes the NFL highly unpredictable and yet totally boring.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 11:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

boring huh?

Yeah America agrees with that.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 12:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm in complete agreement with colin

and I don’t really care what “America” thinks, because they also generally think hockey is boring (BESIDES WHEN THERE’S A FIGHT, BRO! YEAH!), and I think that’s absolutely nuts.

But more to the point — because the league’s got 32 teams, there’s just so much mediocrity (or crap) that a majority of the games are unwatchable (obviously I’m only speaking for myself — as you point out, a rather large percentage of the country would strongly disagree with me). There are other things besides that irk me — football games having absolutely no flow is one of them. Kickoff. TV timeout. Three-and-out. TV timeout. Seven play drive, touchdown. Review. Commercial. Touchdown confirmed. Extra point. TV timeout. Kickoff. TV timeout. Rinse and repeat — but I think I’d be able to get through that if the talent level wasn’t so (seemingly) dispersed.

And, re: colin’s last point about the difficulty in keeping players, that’s another thing that bothers me about the salary cap. With a cap, you’re basically penalized for drafting/developing/having too many good players, and that doesn’t seem right.

by CWSKeith on Dec 24, 2008 1:34 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not sure why that's relevant.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 2:38 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

because its a hell of lot more productive

for the health of your league when every team has a “real” chance to change their fortunes and compete for the championship.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 7:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

judging by the mlb teams who have made the playoffs, say, this decade

it seems like only the poorly managed teams haven’t had a “real” chance. maybe i can cry for the jays. but they’re canadians so fuck em.

by larry on Dec 24, 2008 10:28 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what are you talking about?

i find the league boring, monsignor. i’m not making an objective measure for boringness and asking for your critique.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 11:31 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Look everyone is entitled to their opinion

There are plenty of frustrating things about the game most of which you named. But boring? Sorry. And please, baseball (a game I love)has its fair share of mundane, time consuming non productive things slowing the game way down. Let’s throw to first 5 times. Sure the batter needs to step out of the box after every freaking pitch.

Just because saberheads choose to write a thesis on platoon strategies, it doesn’t erase the raw athleticism, the pure grace, the battle of the elements, the real time game strategies of the National Football League.

The NFL career is short. The declines are steep. The NFL is not so much about a cap as it is about revenue sharing. Owners with owners, owners with players (for real). Very rarely are teams “losing” talent because they can’t afford them under the cap. Plenty of creative ways to pay a player you want to keep. Its more an evaluation of is the player worth it, when a younger and cheaper stud is ready to do the same job. Its more if a player truly gets an opportunity to show what he can do, much like any other sport.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 7:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so i'm not allowed to be bored by the NFL?

that’s stupid.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 11:32 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i take that back. i was stupid. i just read what you wrote again and...wow.

you just convinced me. incredible prose. now i’m a fan of the NFL.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 11:34 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i used to be a big nfl fan.

maybe it’s because i don’t have the time anymore or something else but i just can’t keep track of who plays for whom anymore and who is any good. i don’t know if that’s the salary cap or the aforementioned attrition rate or the huge rosters but the nfl seems to be in more flux than, say, mlb. some obviously argue that’s a good thing. i know there’s the argument that people will watch just about any football game, college or pro, because it’s a bunch of guys knocking each other on their ass and that’s fun. just doesn’t do much for me anymore. i turn on a game, hear the names of three players i’ve heard of, watch for awhile, and then change the channel. that’s probably why i shouldn’t comment on the comparison of the various systems. each appear to have their merits and demerits. the nfl seems to be doing fine. mlb seems to be doing fine. one size fits all is rarely a good idea. i’d also note that the perceived or real parity in the nfl is also a result of having a 16 game season and more playoff spots. smaller sample size = more expected variance, after all.

at any rate, they just signed the CBA, what, two years ago and they’re not going to revisit it now. and i also do find the consternation about this right now rather interesting considering, you know, the yankees payroll is actually probably going to decline from last year and is certainly down in “real terms” from the high they achieved a few years back.

by larry on Dec 24, 2008 11:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NFL has fewer playoff spots per team

than the NBA or MLB.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 12:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

sry.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 12:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't think there's much wrong with the number of spots in the nfl.

nba and nhl, on the other hand, appear to have too many (or, at the very least, too long of series). mlb and nfl appear to have pretty good playoff systems for their respective sports and league structures. if anything, i’d call the nfl system superior.

by larry on Dec 24, 2008 12:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fair enough

I get that for a few people, especially on a baseball board.

As far as the Yanks, even with the payroll reduction its still just a perception thing (which we already discussed) with the economy the way it is.

I spoke more about the last 5-6 years for them.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 12:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Your neither cute or funny

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 12:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

:(

i blame punto.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 12:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ooooh.

i would have also accepted “but does America agree??!”

damn.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 12:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Colintji

I am a grown ass man. You want to have discussion or debate the merits back and forth great. Otherwise like or be bored with whatever the hell you like chief.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 12:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

enjoy your pair of testicles.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 1:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yawn

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 1:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 4:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I dont see "creativity" with regards to payroll in the NFL...

Can’t a GM get out from basically any contract he wants just by cutting the player and only paying a (relatively) small amount (like the signing bonus)? I’ve always found that an absurd notion, but again, that’s what happens when you have what certainly seems to be an absolute joke of a union (NFLPA).

Then again, maybe it isn’t the fault of the union. I just don’t think the players have that much leverage. If they thought about going on strike, the NFL would just bring in replacement types (AFL guys, I presume) and you’d also likely have a bunch of guys breaking the line to play in the NFL… so would much change? I doubt it.

by CWSKeith on Dec 24, 2008 1:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And by "would much change", I'm talking about people watching it

Certainly the quality of play would change but — for the most part — I think most people would continue to watch. Sunday’s are as much about the buildup and event as they are about the game. It’s a day for people to get piss-ass drunk and root for their various fantasy football players and hang out with friends. That approach is pretty different from that of baseball, hockey and basketball (for the most part — there’s obviously some exceptions).

Off-topic — someone better get me a Sham-wow or a Snuggie for Christmas this year. Boy would that make me a happy human.

by CWSKeith on Dec 24, 2008 1:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay Im kind of lost now. (post placement etc..)

Are you saying if the cap went away in the NFL much wouldn’t change in regards to the level of the league and competitiveness?

Again for me its not so much the cap but the revenue sharing. Its huge for the league.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 1:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

post seems clear to me. basically, people would still watch in large enough numbers and the owners would make out like bandits because they'd be paying way less for talent.

the 1987 season tends to refute that theory, though obviously the audience and perception of the game has changed some since then.

by larry on Dec 24, 2008 1:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My dear Watson

I believe we have a winner. I love instead of a minimum floor, its incentive based. Not perfect but I could get with this.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 2:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The creativity is in regards to a gm’s or cap masters ability to rework contracts on the fly. Some bonuses are not so small and many times the bonus is huge with regards to payment for future services. Agents have gotten better about that lately. Especially forcing the issue to get the money in their limited time span. My point was team’s are not loosing players they “develop and train” because they can’t fit them under the cap.

I don’t know about the joke part for the union either. The players receive close to 60% of the revenue in football and open books. Their problem is more along the lines of distribution. Rookies make way too much. The Stars and scrubs pay scale rules.

The notion about parity or dominant teams for me is like it is in almost all sports. More teams and players that probably wouldn’t be there (the pro level) without the extra jobs.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 1:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So the Yankees want to buy a championship

If a team wants to spend that much money, let them. Makes me happier when they don’t. Case in point, the Cubs. Look how much they spent in ’07, and what has it got them. Two division championships when they get swept in the playoffs.

Money makes the world go around, but it doesnt get you World Series championships, or sometimes a leauge Championship.

"Chad Pennington should be MVP"-Woody Paige, Around the Horn 12-18-08

by rangerjae on Dec 30, 2008 7:34 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree with Keith

I’ve been liking football less and less over the last few years, I watched the Bears games this years and ended up bored most of the time

by 815Sox on Jan 1, 2009 7:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Got plenty of yankee fan friends

And they are as happy as a pig in slop. I understand there is enough stupid to go around here. I also get that the Yankees don’t give a shit about perception and will try what they can. But every once in awhile you thumb your nose enough times and people pay attention and decide they might want to do something about it. Even if its not their business. Whether steroids, the BCS etc. Folks sometimes step in and pressure changes.

Don’t be surprised if that BCS legislation gains momentum in Congress next year and don’t be surprised if Congress one day looks at MLB and says WTF.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 6:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe Congress has a few other issues on its plate

MLB is low end. Why, they have the BCS “fiasco” that Obama has practically mandated they address.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 6:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah Congress only addresses issues relevant to them

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 7:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Whoosh!

Boy, that feels good.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 7:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BCS is a much worse situation than salary cap anyways

BCS is a joke. You can win in MLB even if the odds are against you (see: Marlins, Rays,etc..). The no playoff situation on the other hand is just ridiculous.

by Grinder in Training on Dec 23, 2008 7:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Democratic Congress shits all over a union?

that’s got to be at least somewhat unlikely, even if it’s “the change we need”

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 8:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if the city isn't outraged by that, it's on them.

half the city is pretty happy with it, i’d imagine.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 3:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Larry=sensible

"Chad Pennington should be MVP"-Woody Paige, Around the Horn 12-18-08

by rangerjae on Dec 30, 2008 7:31 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so you say if there are no symptoms, you don't need treatment

prevention is for suckers…

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 23, 2008 6:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Prevention of what, exactly?

Free market enterprise?

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 6:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

free market!

LOL!

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 23, 2008 7:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why LOL?

Who is mandated to not spend? If KC hoards it’s share of the pot, as they did for years before opening up the wallet the last year or two (moths escaped when they did it) the only penalty they get is uncompetitive play. Free markets say anyone can buy whatever they want, and the marketplace sets the price. Good old-fashioned capitalism.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 24, 2008 7:56 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re: why LOL?

because I commented that the absence of symptoms doesn’t mean that there is no problem and you took my comment as an attack on the free market

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 24, 2008 12:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

prevention of what? how long since Curt Flood now?

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 8:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

prevention of a problem

my point was that the absence of a symptom doesn’t mean that there is no problem

I didn’t go any further than that…

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 23, 2008 9:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

your wording implied otherwise.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 11:19 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what wording?

my comment didn’t mention team/player management

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 24, 2008 12:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there's a reason we both said

“prevention of what?”

the suggestion was that there was something to prevent. otherwise, why bring it up? we both then went with a best guess defense.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 24, 2008 12:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you've got nothing to worry about

Imagine supporting an English soccer team where as soon as you get a good player he’s off to the highest bidder. Where the same four teams finish in the top four positions every year, and those same four teams hoover up all the available talent even putting them in reserve teams so that other teams can’t sign them. That’s how bad it can get, as far as I can see MLB is competitive to an extent that my sport never has been and likely never will be.
Things like draft picks, tampering rules, arbitration etc. are a long long way from a free market, you want to see how bad it can get the look at European soccer and count your lucky stars.
And if the Yankees win everything for the next ten years then maybe you can start whining. Since the inception of the EPL there have been just four winners; Blackburn (once), Manchester Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea, and there will be no change this year and the year after that.
If MLB was in this state then you can moan, but it isn’t.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 23, 2008 7:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its funny

That is way worse. I think most people (including me) don’t always buy the bitching because the Yankees haven’t won recently. But that really is only one measurement of success. Actually one can argue that there is a direct correlation to wins, playoff apperances and payroll. Oh sure the Twins will do their thing, but make no mistake the haves MAKE the playoffs. From there a great deal of luck takes over. Yes the Yankees missed the playoffs last year but that was before their ridiculous string of previous ones.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 7:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So we should've broken up the Braves when they had 14-15 years in a row of playoff appearances?

Goddamn, folks, we have a whole generation of trustbusters here. What about all the stupid money the Rangers spend? Has it helped them win a championship? The Mets have coughed up a lung the last 2 years at crunch time and missed the playoffs with a huge payroll.

Get off the Yankees/Red Sox backs and have your team work harder. Or you can spend more on your team so the owners have more revenues from which to negotiate free agents/trades.

Or, as Sam Kinison told Africans in the desert, MOVE if you don’t like your current state of affairs.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 7:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What has that got to do with the price of Tea in China

Nobody is against sustained excellence (Braves example). What the Yankees are doing is pretty freaking far from that. The Yankees playoff run didn’t have shit to do with them “working” harder. Not when your payroll is % higher than the 2nd closet team. Give me a break Reagan- I mean winningugly.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 7:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And don't paint me with that "ilk"

I’d actually prefer to see increased revenue sharing and a forced minimum similar to the NFL.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 8:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I should clarify...

spending obviously helps, and being able to spend more than your competitors is certainly an advantage, but there’s just too much to despise about a salary cap, mainly (brought up by larry in the other thread) salary suppression (and before I hear someone else say these players are earning too much, I’ll call bullshit. MLB is a fucking cash cow, and players are worth what the market says they’re worth — if that means Tex and Sabathia and A-Rod are going to make a combined ~$75 million this year, so be it. If you don’t think they should be earning that much, you can start by avoiding going to games, watching games, listening to games, buying merchandise etc etc) and more $$$ for the owners.

A salary floor doesn’t seem so terrible although I’d like to see an argument re: potential cons to it.

by CWSKeith on Dec 23, 2008 8:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm not sure what problems the floor would be addressing

how many other owners do what Loria does?

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 8:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I got no issue with what the players make considering the pot.

I would like it “all” to come down though to help the common fan but I know that ship has sailed.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 8:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here, here.

Did the Sox “buy” their 2005 championship because most of our “stars” were not home-grown? Fer Chrissakes, TD. Every year owners splurge on FA’s, and every year there is but one champion at the end of the year. Some teams seem to have a bottomless cash hoard, some don’t. My point was that the Yankees have been the “evil empire” since Babe Ruth and the league actually now seems more competitive now than it ever has been, their profligate spending notwithstanding.

And the irony of your distaste is that this was the first year the Evil Ones missed the playoffs. Get a relevant argument and call me.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 24, 2008 7:51 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Okay ugly.

I’ll let it go. You actually used the perfect word for me distasteful. All I was saying was that it does matter on average to success. Of course there are counter examples, but my point was recently there has been a clear shift from the relative balance of spending (the Yanks always spent a little more) to a ridiculous gap between them and everyone else.

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 24, 2008 7:59 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tdogg, on that we agree -

the spending orgy is ugly, and unfortunately synonymous with “American”. But it is what it is.

So – enough philosophy – do we go for anyone out there who is available? Sheets/Lowe? Corner OF?

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 24, 2008 8:08 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with that

They really didn’t start to decline until A-Rod signed on

"Chad Pennington should be MVP"-Woody Paige, Around the Horn 12-18-08

by rangerjae on Dec 30, 2008 7:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I believe the reserve clause was struck down in 1975.

I graduated high school that year. So fer Chrissakes quit bitching about how non-competitive free agency is. It’s been around for 33 years. Longer than most of you.

Go back to the ’’30’s, 40’s and ’50’s and research how many times the Yankees won the pennant/Series then. THAT was anti-competitive. Like 15 times in 27 years (’32-58).

Quit whining and man up. Or move to China – they are pretty “one for all and all for one” there.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 7:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what? I never mentioned the reserve clause

anyway everyone knows the Yankees have access to Bernie Madoff’s slush fund, they must have got the money from somewhere.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 23, 2008 7:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Meant for Tdogg and others of the ilk, not you.

Sorry, mate.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 7:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's up with the investor/hedge manager who committed suicide?

ugly you got the 411?

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 8:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe just maybe

he felt a little bit guilty about having a lot to do with people losing all their money, some people have consciences you know. Although the fuss that was generated by me asking for people to make sure their links open in new tabs does make me wonder sometimes.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 23, 2008 8:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah - a blue-blood whose family name is on the Arc de Triomphe.

Started Apollo Management (by lending $ to Leon Black), Credit Lyonnais brokerage. Probably had NO idea that Madoff was a jackass and fell on his sword because he disgraced his family name ($1.5B of losses). He was the specific conduit to many European old money folks. I feel horrible for the guy, and especially his family.

Suicide is, unlike the MASH refrain, not painless. Effin’ crooks. I hate this – it stains our whole system based upon trust. Just what we need – another kick in the teeth around holiday time.

This guy won’t be the last casualty, unfortunately.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 24, 2008 7:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And one for all!

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Dec 23, 2008 7:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh wait, you said that.

...and then some depressed fucked-cake eating.

by homesickalien on Dec 23, 2008 7:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i completely agree (and mentioned Mr. Flood)

so…

yeah. i’m freaked out.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 8:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They are also taking the long view re: recapturing revenues - .25/ticket for bleacher seats v. Cubs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3789673

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 2:55 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's a token gesture, it's a marketing ploy to generate good will

There are quite a few Yankees fans that like to brag about how much revenue their team brings in yada yada yada. The same fans don’t realize that NYC basically socialized their new stadium with low and tax free loans.

Pisses me off. They don’t need any taxpayer handouts.

by madvillian on Dec 23, 2008 3:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You mean they really won't make money at .25/seat?

Thanks for the clarification. I thought Bernie Madoff might still be managing their money. (Oh, those are the Mets’ owners…)

And, yes, it’s ridiculous that the stadium was subsidized to the extent that it was with the public sector hurting as badly as it is there.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 3:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soooooo - how soon does Manny re-sign with the Dodgers?

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 23, 2008 3:51 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The real question is

When do we trade Konerko to the Angels? :-)

"It just occurred to me that the White Sox could win the division."

by SuddenSam on May 22, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

" That just makes me want to puke all over your head, sir."

by Tdogg on Dec 23, 2008 7:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As soon as Chone Figgins becomes available

"Chad Pennington should be MVP"-Woody Paige, Around the Horn 12-18-08

by rangerjae on Dec 30, 2008 7:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe he'll be their mascot this year.

Sober, I was appalled at the women. Drunk I was told I danced with them all.

by colintj on Dec 23, 2008 8:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

swisher to the sf giants?

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081223&content_id=3727624&vkey=hotstove2008&fext=.jsp

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 23, 2008 9:27 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doesn't he live in San Fran?

He would probably like that. Still can’t believe we traded him away

by 815Sox on Jan 1, 2009 7:19 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Watch the Yankees sign Manny next. You can just feel it coming.

It’ll be no big deal for them to move one of Matsui, Damon, Cabrera, Nady and Swisher.

If I were Cashman I would sign Manny. Then, platoon him and Damon at LF/DH. Cabrera plays center. Nady plays RF. Swisher stays as the backup at 1B, CF and RF. Trade Matsui to Seattle for anything.

by NLaloosh on Dec 23, 2008 9:52 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Imagine the lineup the Yankees could have...........

Damon
Jeter
Ramirez
Texeira
ARod
Posada
Nady
Cano
Cabrera

with a rotation of Sabathia, Burnett, Wang, Petitte and Hughes with Chamberlain and Rivera closing it out. Could anyone beat them?

by NLaloosh on Dec 23, 2008 9:58 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nope. undefeated.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 23, 2008 9:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You forget about Ditka.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 24, 2008 7:41 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes

The Bears

"Chad Pennington should be MVP"-Woody Paige, Around the Horn 12-18-08

by rangerjae on Dec 30, 2008 7:38 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Verducci's take on the Tex signing:

href=“http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tom_verducci/12/23/yankees.teixeira/index.html?eref=T1” >

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 24, 2008 10:02 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or my old fashioned way (without the link):

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tom_verducci/12/23/yankees.teixeira/index.html?eref=T1

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 24, 2008 10:03 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

brewers owner complains about yankees
In an e-mail to Bloomberg News, Attansio voiced his frustration, while hinting at a solution: “At the rate the Yankees are going, I’m not sure anyone can compete with them. Frankly, the sport might need a salary cap.”

Speaking to Bloomberg News on the phone, Attansio added, “They (Yankees) are on a completely different economic playing field. I paid $220 million for my team; now they get three players for $420 million.”

baseballmusings offers a rebuttal of sorts:

Really, the Yankees just shelled out $420 million? No, the Yankees committed to that much money over a long time period.

Secondly, Mr. Attansio’s investment in the Brewers was worth $331 million as of the last Forbes report, a 50% increase. The income for the team is $19 million, an 8.6% annual return on his original investment. So maybe, just maybe, Attansio had the resources to go five-years, $120 million on CC and hope that goodwill would carry the day.

by larry on Dec 24, 2008 8:32 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you are a twat

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 24, 2008 8:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nationals offered more money
Anyway, just one more note on Mark Teixeira: I’ve heard from a reliable source that the first baseman turned down about $5 million more from the Nationals to sign with the Yankees. And the Nats would have gone higher, but were never given the chance. Teixeira jumped at Brian Cashman’s first offer.

I guess it wasn’t ALL about the money – just mostly about it. Being on a contender every year also brings a certain appeal.

http://masnsports.com/2008/12/for-teixeira-the-choice-was-ya.html

by larry on Dec 25, 2008 10:45 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No fucking shit. He's not an idiot, or greedy.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 25, 2008 6:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another point of view: "You Can Buy Championships"
Alex Belth dispels the idea that you can’t buy championships:

But facts are facts: since the start of free agency in 1977, no team has spent more money on players than the Yankees have; no team has won more pennants or more championships. So while no team can ever fool themselves that they can pre-arrange success (as George Steinbrenner was accused of believing in the Eighties), the Yankees aggressiveness in the free agency market hasn’t always back fired either.

I would also argue that the 1977 Yankees Championship was bought with Reggie Jackson. The 1997 Marlins certainly bought a champion (compare to the Indians who developed the team and signed players to long term contracts). The 2001 Diamondbacks wasn’t exactly home grown. I’m sure my readers can think of others.

There are many ways of building a champion, and buying a team works just as well as anything else.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030520.php

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 28, 2008 12:52 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and another pov
Lately there’s been a lot of talk about salary caps and baseball. Driven largely due to the Yankees free agent spending spree in which they added CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, and Mark Teixeira for some large sum that most of us will never come close to earning. Most of you know I’m a Rays fan, and those of whom have talked to me about the topic before know I’m largely against implementing a salary cap.

No matter whether there’s a floor, a cap, or simply a free market, teams like the Yankees will always earn more revenue per victory than teams like the Rays and Marlins. Right now, the Yankees use their financial advantages to sign free agents to massive, albeit market value, contracts that smaller market teams have no hope of offering. That being said, free agent contracts are only a good deal when compared to other free agent contracts.

If a cap is implemented, the Yankees will still earn a ton of revenue, but will have an excess amount of cash laying around that used to be spent on their roster. Odds are, they’re going to spend that money, and on what? Well, how about amateur talent, both domestically and internationally or technology and advancements in statistical analysis as well as scouting, coaching, and front office techniques?

What would you rather have: the Yankees of current, who spend money on free agents that are usually near the end of their prime anyways, or the Yankees of a salary capped world, who have a distinct advantage in minor league talent and baseball operations?

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/29/704629/a-short-diatribe-on-salary

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 30, 2008 11:39 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Patience, grasshopper, patience

On “Barron’s” Website today:

OIL AND BASEBALL — NAMELY the Yankees — are two passions that are remarkably similar for Fadel Gheit.

While he makes his living off the first and is an avid fan of the second, the managing director of energy at Oppenheimer says both markets are subject to the “bubble.” Crude-oil prices have collapsed and salaries by baseball’s A-listers could be next?
“Unfortunately the sports bubble hasn’t burst yet, and it will, mark my words it will,” says Gheit, who thinks Alex Rodriguez should be making $3 million, not $50 million, for a job some people would take for free hot dogs.

I would rather douse a newspaper in gasoline, wrap it around my penis and light it on fire then relive that experience
by armedpp on Aug 29, 2007 2:36 AM EDT

by winningugly on Dec 30, 2008 1:01 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what do you have against the free market commie?

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 30, 2008 1:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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