12/4 Link Dump

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2008 2:20 PM CST Comment 185 comments

I was just about to post my third FanShot while cleaning out my feed reader, which is more than enough to sustain a link dump... so, here it goes.

The Mets are "not ready" to deal Fernando Martinez.
[Mets GM Omar] Minaya always has refused to label any prospect "untouchable," but he kept Mike Pelfrey off the table last year at this time and he seems ready to do the same with Martinez. With the Mets connected to numerous reports involving White Sox outfielder Jermaine Dye and closer Bobby Jenks, it was not surprising to see Baseball Prospectus suggest that Minaya was discussing a "blockbuster" deal that could bring both to Flushing for a package centered on Martinez. But a person familiar with the situation said yesterday there was "nothing there."
Tango pens his annual case for Tim Raines for the HOF.
Shawn Hoffman pinch hits at Baseball Analysts with a piece called Baseball's Bear Market? Why 'Caution' is the Keyword This Winter
Gonzo has lots of little nuggets from the as yet-to-be-posted-online conference call with Kenny Williams. Some scary thoughts: Lillibridge described as Ozuna with more upside, while Poreda "will probably gravitate toward the bullpen."

[Update by The Cheat, 12/04/08 3:06 PM CST]: The call is online. it's a half-hour long, so I haven't been able to sift through it yet.
The Brent Morel and Jordan Danks led Winston-Salem team will no longer be called the Warthogs. They're the Dash, reflecting the Sox new commitment to speed. Seriously, their nickname is the Dash now, but they were named after a hyphen. It has nothing to do with speed.
Keith Law adds a few MPH to Santos Rodriguez' fastball compared to what we had previously heard from Gonzo. In the Gonzo link above, KW stated that Santos would be converted to a starter this year.
MLBTR takes a stab at identifying some possible non-tenders, arbitration-eligible players still under team control who may not be offered contracts and thus become free-agents. Most recently, the Sox picked up Toby Hall after being non-tendered. Interesting and/or scary names include Daniel Cabrera and Willy Taveras. The non-teneder deadline is December 12th.

I'm sure I'll add more, but this is a start

0 recs | Comment 185 comments

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Comments

I find it hard to believe

That the mets won’t trade for or sign someone based on the fact that they have someone who “might be ready by mid-season”.

I hope that a deal gets done to the white sox centered around Martinez and Murphy or Pelfrey. This would open up a lot of healthy competition for jobs. And if you have 10-12 prospects atleast 4 have to pan out….. right….? right..?

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 2:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

And if you have 10-12 prospects atleast 4 have to pan out….. right….? right..?

look for “colin” on the THT annual’s index

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it depends on the exact kind of prospects.

Flowers and Beckham may end up with elite status if what they’ve shown so far is for real. Allen will probably have more doubters unless his K rate drops some. It’s not clear what Danks or Viciedo will do yet at the plate and where the latter lies on the Def Spectrum isn’t clear. Shelby is below the curve at this point.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

poreda

why do they see him in the pen

by mp11932 on Dec 4, 2008 2:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Probably because of his lack of secondary pitches.

by JoeCoolMan24 on Dec 4, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

lack of starter mentality

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

clicking on the link to get the answer is actually easier than typing out a comment, no?

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the link addresses that?

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

amazing, huh.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There was no quote from Kenny on that . . .

I will wait to see a chat transcript before judging what the Sox ‘see’.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

conference call up

This should work

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2008 3:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sound is terrible

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

when was this call conducted?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

1876

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, they didn't have good sound quality back then

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

When are they going to give up on this Bell guy?

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 4, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

give Buddy a chance

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

veteran. good in the clubhouse. is actually related to cowley's wife and is non-southerner so unlikely to fuck her.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cowley's wife and Buddy Bell are related?

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

probably wins for colin's worst post today.

which is saying something.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

being terrible according to you

is like being a kid in lake wobegon

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

buddy bell? we're making telephone jokes and you guys are butting in with buddy fucking bell?

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

colin's off his mark today, i think he's thrown with all the fame coming his way via THT

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thrown off

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

buddy >>>>> alexander graham

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and, despite that, still has nothing to do with telephones.

and actually feared them as a manager.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Kenny:

Marquez = Vazquez, because we have a good bullpen

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that means jenks is staying, haha

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that comment undermines the

entire interview.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"[Lillibridge] needs to be more small-minded"

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 4, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

we could all stand to be a little more small-minded.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Then stick around -

I know my brain has become smaller as a result of my time on this site.

And I appreciate your contributions.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'd like to get to the point where i don't ever read anyone else's comments, my own or anything on this site

yet randomly jump into conversations and repeat myself ad nauseum.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm almost there.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'd like to get to the point where i don't ever read anyone else's comments, my own or anything on this site.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm almost there.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2008 7:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OF Aaron Cunningham Oakland Athletics

There was a time where the Athletics didn’t promote their youngsters until they walked 10% of the time. Cunningham has walked at least 9% of the time at every level until he reached the majors last season. It’s hard to imagine Those 80 at-bats left something to be desired, but that’s because a .314 wOBA from a 22-year-old is only unimpressive with his track record. Cunningham’s career low wOBA in the minors was .372 in his first professional season. A plus defender in the corners, Cunningham is the total package, and if Oakland isn’t happy with Matt Holliday as an “impact bat”, they won’t have long to wait until Cunningham posts some very nice numbers for the big league team. The only problem for Cunningham is the amassed army of outfielders the Athletics have, he’s not the only one waiting to step in when/if Travis Buck gets hurt, and that could keep him down longer than originally imagined. Then again, maybe it won’t.

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/4/676148/six-of-youth-worth-watchin

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 3:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

eh.

they’ve already got travis buck.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm curious

is there a statute of limitations for when people stop posting about every mention of prospects the white sox traded away? let it go, wiz. she broke up with you. it’s time to stop stalking every move she makes online.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

probably because the return was lackluster.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

really. hadn't heard.

how many guys think the guy the chick broke up with them for is more than lackluster?

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

does not compute

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

whoops.

i forgot. wiz has never dated.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your reply just made me think of

The Denise Show…

With Adam Sandler on SNL….. and Denise was Shannen Doherty

ah good times…

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wily Taveras non-tendered...?

i can’t wait to see the talk in this thread…..

Quick…!

Jerry Owens vs. Taveras round 3

Oh the useless comments that i’ve read the past week…

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"I think this guy's going to be an All Star catcher"

KW on Flowers. “Has agility behind home plate. Throws the ball extremely well.”

D change? “Furthest thing from my mind…Good solid defensive player behind the plate.”

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"average defensively" seems to be about implied

and that sounds a lot better than what’s been reported. obviously, he’s talking him up. emphasized the offense the most.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that was a safe assumption after we

received all the details surrounding the deal. You don’t make that deal for a future DH.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that quote from Flowers was unsettling.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it wasn't unsettling, like you said he's talking the boy up, like he's supposed to, its his job

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't make much of it

he realizes there is only 3 possible ML positions for him and the NL restricts him to 2. He knows his bat is his biggest asset and the DH gives him one more option to get on the field. I am willing to give him and Kenny the benefit of the doubt at this point.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not too mention . . .

he knows that the way to the big $ is through being a C. The market for DH only types is very limited.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's what my logic tells me

my fear of the Sox fucking up, however, makes me panic.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what happened to your faith in KW?

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he gave it WTGTD, who now has excessive faith in KW

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it takes a hit every times something i can't figure out happens.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Passed up major league ready talent for Gilmore and Rodriguez

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

kenny said that?

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

His scouts made him do it..

it was against his will….

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

scouts called him up and insisted.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so the guess is the morton/reyes direction

would have been the way to go prior to that call?

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this is hard to listen to.

shit sound.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

nothing like 7.1 from my blue ray player..

sounds a lot like my grandpa’s ham radio

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who would want a major league ready arm...?

So is it just me, or did he just put the pressure on one of those 2 guys to pan out. Otherwise his scouts now look very stupid…

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Do we really know that the 5th player was Morton or Reyes?

The comment above says major league ready talent . . . not arm.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it doesn't

i was just speculating….

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

whoever predicted it

you were right

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/4/678961/the-javier-vazquez-trade-g

sit*

by U-God on Dec 4, 2008 3:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

another link

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/white-sox-hope-that-flowers-will-bloom-in-chicago

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya know,

I’m gonna put my faith in Kenny Williams, not Peter Bendix .

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cut him some slack.

he just wants to work for BP in the future.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Guy's gotta be

related to William Bendix, the star of “The Babe Ruth Story” and “The Life of Riley.”

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Geez, you are old as dirt, aren't you?

(Sadly, though, I know exactly what you are talking about. William Bendix was probably THE all-time worst portrayal of an athlete – well, maybe Anthony Perkins was worse.)

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ron Silver as Bobby Riggs

…now there’s casting.

by RoyEgan on Dec 4, 2008 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

score

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 4, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Says Swisher deal should be thought of as Viciedo, Marquez, Nunez, etc

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I started laughing when he was talking about

Fields being a big part of the team..

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"Chris Stewart or Corky Miller" for back up catcher right now.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Is it just me, or does KW come off really smug.

He’s chuckling to himself and laughing at the stupidity of their ?’s

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i thought he was just having fun

he was cracking jokes and sounded like he was being sincere

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's why i was asking...

I just thought it was smug
Maybe it was playful..

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 4, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you can see how people took his "this just puts detroit in a better position to compete with us" seriously, then, huh.

oh. wait.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like he's pretty much dismissed signing FAs

well past Viciedo anyway. And if they had to dump Swish to get Viciedo, that says seriously tight purse strings for 2009. He also sidestepped a question about how good he thinks they’ll be in the league/division. The Sox’ off season options haven’t narrowed enough yet. Should be interesting though. It’s definitely fun having a GM like Kenny.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 3:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

the list becomes bigger

Sox and Braves finally make it official. Javy is gone to the Dirty South.

http://twitter.com/cst_sox/statuses/948982853

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 3:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

he'll feel right at home

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 4, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying he abuses animals like Mike Vick?

Is that what you are saying?

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no

I’m saying Puerto Rico is dirty

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 4, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Racist.

PR has some very nice, clean, scenic areas. And thieves in all of those areas.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

jobless = the new employed

at least on the WSJ blogs!

http://blogs.wsj.com/laidoff/

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 4:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

somebody broke out a thesaurus for this, too.

lost his position (where did i put that damn job?), downsized, eliminated, laid off (lehman’s might re-hire me later, right?)…

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can't wait to get mine on there

…I now measure my day in how many idiotic posts I read through on SSS… (rapidly losing brain cells of which I can no longer afford to do!)

Don't look back because we are going forward!

by Brush Back on Dec 4, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not a great income-generator, eh?

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not so far - there has to be an angle to this

Don't look back because we are going forward!

by Brush Back on Dec 4, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ask Cheat - maybe not without a "liquidity event".

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

More Law analysis

Cox (Central NJ): Fernando Martinez being involved in any package for Bobby Jenks and Jermaine Dye – bad idea, or really, really, really bad idea?

Keith Law: I think Kenny would be selling high on both guys. Jenks may have peaked in October 2005, or early 2006 at the latest. Still good, not the same guy, no way I trade for him with Wood still out there.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 5:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Keith Law can suck it.

Wood better than Jenks? Yeah, sure. Unless he thinks Wood will not get a large payday, which does not sound like his assumption.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

jenks' haul in arbitration over the next three years may well equal or eclipse what wood will get.

i wouldn’t pay players to get jenks in such a scenario, either.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was reading his "may have peaked in 2005 or 2006".

I guess Woodie is still peaking. We’re back to “wow, can he throw hard” vs. “wow, can he get guys out”.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'll give law the benefit of the doubt here

and say that he doesn’t think particularly highly of either player.

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If that's the case (and, loyalty aside, he might be correct based on the numbers you seamheads have flashed

this offseason), KW ought to sell high.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wood's fastball/slider combo are both better than

Jenks current combination. I can’t say that I don’t understand the argument over the next 2-3 years that one would prefer Wood. Obviously, the injuries and lack of being able to pitch in many back to backs are a factor. But, one guy spent almost a month on the DL this year and it wasn’t Wood.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 6:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

don't blame Law

he doesn’t actually watch baseball games. And it wasn’t nearly as bad as the Alexei… eh… joke? I don’t know what to call it.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 4, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this post is subject to revision based upon whatever colin says the HBT annual has to say on the topic discussed.

by larry on Dec 4, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

erik bedard might get non-tendered?

sounds like a good idea to me, unless im missing something

Thank you,
these bumblefucks think the Sox are going to trade Dye. I said I would cancel my membership on here in martyrdom of Dye being traded.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2008 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

um still recovering from torn labrum?

maybe he can give jose company.

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bedard was a guy on kenny's radar, right?

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why do we dump Vasquez?

I am very unhappy about this, the pitchers are the most important defensive pieces. I can’t believe we can easily replace this guy.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 4, 2008 5:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

you won't like the post below...

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Transaction Oracle weighs in on the Vazquez trade

ZiPS Projection - Javier Vazquez
-----------------------------------------------------------------
____________W   L   G  GS   IP    H   ER  HR  BB  SO   ERA   ERA+
-----------------------------------------------------------------
2009       14  10  31  31  202  190   83  20  57 202  3.70   117   
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Top Comps:  Jim Bunning, Mike Mussina



ZiPS Projection - Brent Lillibridge (SS)
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______________AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB   SO  SB   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS+
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2009         476  63 105  18   2  11   54  31  100   8 .221 .275 .336   58  
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Top Comps:  Dick Schofield, Worse Alex Gonzalez

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/braves_acquired_vazquez/

I only copied the projections for the “ready” guys…

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 6:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

t-flo

Flowers is an excellent prospect and unlike a lot of players at the type, he works on his defense and is successful enough that he doesn’t automatically need to be moved to 1B. He’s a great pickup for the White Sox and while every team would like to hang onto a player like him, he’s only two years younger than Brian McCann and the Braves aren’t a strong enough organization that they can just hoard players of value.

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So does that make Flowers' ETA 2010 (beginning or middle)?

An 82 OPS+ from a catcher can’t be too far below average, can it? I’d imagine (if all goes as planned) he’ll probably be ready to take on big league pitching not too far after April 2010.

by CWSKeith on Dec 4, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

down with OPS+ up with wOBA!

stat corner + this = goodness.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh yeah

Chone’s D-Projections

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm still gonna reserve my judgment on alexei's defense, because i'm not ready to concede that he's below average.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he's average according to Chone.

that sounds right to me.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I will be surprised if a below average

2B turns into an average SS. That would be a new one on me.

by jc2313 on Dec 4, 2008 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

there's no way of knowing with any certainty he was a below average

the metrics aren’t good enough to see that. i like what i saw and the Fan Scouting Report backs me up. absent a more thorough dissection from some panel of scouts, that works for me.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 5, 2008 12:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can you explain why the metrics aren't

good enough for him but good enough to judge anyone else? I must be missing something.

by jc2313 on Dec 5, 2008 8:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One reason could be a single season of data.

Well, less than a full season.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 5, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the single season of data

and not having played in the minors all mean we know very very little about his fielding.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 5, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

System might have its strengths.

but I got to be suspect of any system that rates Podsednik as a better outfielder than Brian Anderson – both CF and corner – even if it is only marginally better.

Oh yeah, they don’t WATCH the games.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 4, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

actually this one is regressed to Tango's Fan Scouting Report

so it has a pretty significant number of games watched included.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

also:

Dave Cameron explains

It should be noted that the Chone system is different because it incorporates both BIS and STATS data, plus the FSR regression plus an age adjustment. the age adjustment is probably too fine for the data on an individual player, but it’s probably also a small one anyway. Using three distinct measurements in combination should produce more robust results.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and it's also freely available. i think it makes sense as a common currency d metric.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

those three pages will give you frame of reference of value for pretty much everybody

as far as position players go. catchers, less so.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm actually thinking ever better for javy, but can lillibridge really be that bad? i mean, that's terrible. and what about the speed!?!?!

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lillibridge = Uribe.

And that’s an optimistic assessment, I think.

He’s a throw-in. Flowers is the centerpiece.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Dec 4, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

unfortunately I think Pablo with a good glove is closer to Lillibridge. Some kind of Juan/Pablo hybrid. Urina?

larrys fortune cookie: you will learn much and have the advantage of not reading my pompous responses.

by bhoov on Dec 4, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, that seems really pessimistic. his defensive reputation and minor league offensive numbers suggest that he is a clear upgrade over pablo, especially at the price.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i was under the impression that his downside was defensive utility guy and that his upside average ss.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he's got some small chance to reach that upside

and he’s already reached that downside. here’s his minor league splits —> click the “mle” part. you can see how badly he declined in 2008. i think he should start in AAA to figure his shit out unless he shows something in spring training (he’ll either look right or he won’t).

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

2008 looks like a pretty clear derailment, but look at his 2007 AA/AAA numbers.

any number of things could have factored into the 2008 struggles. if we’re going to write off 2006 as an abberation to the upside, then let’s forgive 2008 and assume that 2007, which he split between AA and AAA is a pretty good indicator. those 2007 numbers aren’t bad at all.

i’m not suggesting he’s anything special, but if he’s got +speed and +defense and he put up a .282/.341/.417 line between AA/AAA at the league minimum then i think he could be a valuable part of the ballclub. and if you have any faith in kw’s buying low on prospects abilities, then this looks like a good situation.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 4, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it does help that he's had success in AAA before.

so we’ll see i suppose.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Lillibridge is a Pablo replacement that can play SS, that's not ter

He’ll probably get too many at-bats, but it’s possible he’s the only real SS in the upper levels of the organization. If this means he’s a utility player and Betemit doesn’t play SS, that might not be so bad.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2008 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Betemit is getting the heaping helping of ABs at third this year

Kenny doesn’t think much of Fields and he wouldn’t have gone after Betemit if he didn’t want to take on the salary for some purpose.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 4, 2008 10:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Obviously something happened.

The guy went from
.287 .331 .436 767 - 321 AB

at Richmond in ’07, to

.220 .294 .344 638 - 355 AB

at Richmond in ’08.

Same level, same team.

Looks like a potential Buy Low.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 5, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

as is often the case, babip is a partial culprit.

by larry on Dec 5, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ATTN KW: Statistical Analysis

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 5, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my go-to is baseball reference. where should i be getting my babip info from?

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 5, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BR has it.

for minor leaguers, i use first inning.

by larry on Dec 5, 2008 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

did you read that xBABIP study THT had up?

came with a sweet spreadsheet. last 4 years of anybody with 100 PA (iirc). the data looks really nice and it looks like they’ve isolated SOME kind of consistent skill. suggests a fall off for AJ btw. and it puts to rest that whole .120 + LD% which i never really liked or knew what to do with…

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 5, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thank you both.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 7, 2008 2:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually that's

doing exactly what he was supposed to do: replace Pablo!
.260 .290 .344
.244 .280 .282

last 2 years

But seriously, forget about Lillibridge. this is Vazquez for Flowers and couple of guys with tools (at least one of which is high risk/high reward and i ain’t talkin about JO).

larrys fortune cookie: you will learn much and have the advantage of not reading my pompous responses.

by bhoov on Dec 4, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

high risk/high reward and i ain’t talkin about JO

you better!

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 4, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rosy projections for Javy.

The move to the NL makes him a Cy Young front-runner, but who knows how he’ll handle relocating – it is stressful to move, after all.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's closer to puerto rico

by onlysoxfaninboston on Dec 4, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

delta even has direct flights to san juan

what a great fit

I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.

by thatshortkid on Dec 4, 2008 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How does this even happen?

Saltalamacchia is married to a former teacher from his high school, Ashley Saltalamacchia (14 years his senior), though he was never directly her student.

Thank you,
these bumblefucks think the Sox are going to trade Dye. I said I would cancel my membership on here in martyrdom of Dye being traded.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2008 7:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's hot. When you're 15.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

got it bad, got it bad, got it bad

i’ve got it baaaaaaaad, soooooooooo baaaaaaaaaaad

I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.

by thatshortkid on Dec 4, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

You are a bit older than most on this site,

aren’t you TSK?

Rec’d for MTV early days.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2008 7:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm somewhere around the median, probably above now

with the influx of all these college-age whippersnappers running around. (get off my lawn!)

’81, which (i think) puts me right around a good chunk of the regulars and Fearless Leader

I don’t want my beer to taste like fruit or honey. I want pussy to taste that way.

by thatshortkid on Dec 5, 2008 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So "Hot for Teacher" refers to your pre-school one, eh?

You lucky b-stard.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Graguated HS or college in '81?

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 5, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd bet DOB was in '81.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2008 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're a fucking rocket scientist, WU.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 5, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Certainly posted in jest.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 5, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

After the "Graguated" part...

Hey, bb, great to be employed, isn’t it? Sheesh. It truly has not been this bad since I graduated college in May, 1980. THE worst quarter since then. Wowie wow wow.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2008 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This could be really, really ugly.

The I want it now mindset, credit, never having experienced want. Set up for some real pain.

Bet Scott Boras didn’t like those unemployment numbers one bit.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 5, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Graduated

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 5, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless the (14 years his senior) is saying the age difference

I could see a 3-4 year difference between the 2. Last year I had a teacher who was 23 years old, and we had 19 year old students in her class.

by JoeCoolMan24 on Dec 4, 2008 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

shes 14 years older than him

Thank you,
these bumblefucks think the Sox are going to trade Dye. I said I would cancel my membership on here in martyrdom of Dye being traded.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2008 11:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what the hell?

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 5, 2008 12:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

colin, jr. re: math. New territory on sentence structure.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 5, 2008 7:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Javy fires the first shot

"The negativity is never good," Vazquez said at his news conference in Atlanta. "I’ve always been a big believer in being positive, especially in professional leagues. You’ve got a lot of negative things going on, so you always try to be positive.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Dec 4, 2008 7:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

what a fag

Thank you,
these bumblefucks think the Sox are going to trade Dye. I said I would cancel my membership on here in martyrdom of Dye being traded.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 4, 2008 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

but there's more...

“The only thing I’m going to say is it’s good to get away from the negativity and start fresh,” Vazquez said. “I like the city, like the stadium. I’m a flyball pitcher, so this park, I think suits better with the type of pitcher I am. I’m looking forward to pitching here.”

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Dec 4, 2008 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ozzie fired the first shot when Javy knuckled under the end of last season.

Javy sounds “sensitive”. Not CT.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm glad for him -- sounds happy

Ozzie’s handling of Vazquez was about as poor a job managing as he’s done with the Sox — probably even worse than thinking can play CF.

Vazquez is frustrating, but he’s a valuable pitcher. When I got excited about the Sox possibly trading him at the end of the season I was hoping there would be an opportunity to upgrade over him to make up for having Richard as 5th starter. And so now we have…Jeff Marquez.

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But now we have AJ's replacement, too.

KW’s not done yet. No lamenting about the rotation allowed until we break camp.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point -- I don't what that to sound like premature lamenting

I’m not convinced the Marquez era is going to begin yet — we’ll see what happens. But I do have to say that my initial excitement about replacing Vazquez dimmed as the offseason has gone along and it became apparent that upgrading on him would be difficult. At least it adds intrigue.

I’m mildly disappointed with the Vazquez trade, if only because the non-Flowers portion of the trade seems pretty junky. I’d rather the Sox had just gotten Flowers and one more decent prospect (Morton, Reyes, or one of their OFs). That probably wasn’t on the table, though

by hitlesswonder on Dec 4, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't appear we've fleeced anyone yet (like BHB/Gio for Freddy).

But this one isn’t bad. I don’t like “fair” or “even” trades where both sides benefit. That’s Communism. I want Fascism in my trading.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 4, 2008 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gee, that's a surprise.

;)

My Mom and Dad went to Oklahoma, and all they brought back for me was this signature.

by rhythm on Dec 5, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

mmm, not sure about that

I can’t think of anything off hand but I’m sure Ozzie has done worse things than the way he handled Javy at the end of the year. It’s hard to call their staff negative. Coop is finding sunshine at the prospect of Richard and Marquez being the back of ’09 rotation for crying out loud.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Dec 4, 2008 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs