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White Sox Win Leaders in the Maddux Era

Greg Maddux made his major league debut in 1986, and has amassed 355 victories since. He's set to announce his retirement Monday as the baseball winter meetings take place in his hometown of Las Vegas.

So, I got to wondering who is the Sox win leader in Maddux's career. Actually, I already knew the answer to that one and I'm pretty sure 90% of you would have guessed correctly, but there are some other interesting names on the Top 10 in that time span.

      Player             **W**  From  To   Ages   ERA  ERA+ 
+----+-----------------+-------+----+----+-----+-----+-----
    1 Mark Buehrle        122   2000 2008 21-29  3.80  122 
    2 Jon Garland          92   2000 2007 20-27  4.41  106 
    3 Jack McDowell        91   1987 1994 21-28  3.50  117  
    4 Alex Fernandez       79   1990 1996 20-26  3.78  114 
    5 James Baldwin        69   1995 2001 23-29  5.04   93 
    6 Wilson Alvarez       67   1991 1997 21-27  3.76  118
    7 Jose Contreras       50   2004 2008 32-36  4.55  102 
    8 Mike Sirotka         45   1995 2000 24-29  4.31  111 
    9 Melido Perez         44   1988 1991 22-25  4.20   93 
   10 Greg Hibbard         41   1989 1992 24-27  3.78  103 

I would have missed Baldwin, Perez and Hibbard if I had tried to guess the Top 10. Anyway, this was just an excuse to have a fresh thread this weekend.

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Over/Under on how many are HOF guys??

I say 4.5

I wish he was in my fantasy league. id bury that cocksucker- KenWo4Life

by Hawk is God on Dec 6, 2008 2:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

couple tidbits
Aaron Poreda, a 2007 first-round draft pick, will compete as a starter but could settle for a relief role, as Williams doesn’t want to field a rotation of four left-handers.

Williams intimated that the price of leadoff hitters has caused him to look internally, with Jerry Owens the leading candidate.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-05-white-sox-chicagodec05,0,7240365.story

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 6, 2008 2:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

JERRY OWENS

www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com

by Raf on Dec 6, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Everything that's written between Thursday and Monday will have been cribbed from the Thursday conference call

If you want Sunday’s headlines today, go listen to the call.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 6, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, the article is 2 days old

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 6, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

are the mets in dye's no-trade list?

merkin, via dye’s agent, says yes

“We certainly would have to be contacted if any of the teams were on that list,” said Bry of the potential employment relocation for Dye, who carries an $11.5 million salary for 2009 and has a $12 million mutual option for 2010, with a $1 million buyout. "The Mets and Phillies have been rumored with Jermaine, and they are on the list.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081125&content_id=3692853&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

gonzo doesn’t think so

He has averaged 34 home runs and 95 RBIs in his four years with the Sox. That gives him value to many teams: the Dodgers (assuming they don’t re-sign Manny Ramirez), Mets, Braves, Angels (if they lose Mark Teixeira), Rays and Reds, to name six teams that are not believed to be on his no-trade list.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-05-rogers-white-sox-trade-chdec05,0,5654685.column

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 6, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

mixed the trib writers...

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 6, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

4 Lefties

I guess I don’t really understand the logic in not wanting 4 lefties in the rotation. Would he be saying this if we had 4 capable righties? If the kid is in our top 5 let him go. Unless this is just an excuse to put Marquez in there.

by StevenKerr on Dec 6, 2008 3:00 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know how reliable this is
Paul White of USA Today was on XM radio and he mentioned that the Sox and Brewers are in some heavy talks about Jenks…

http://brewersfandemonium.yuku.com/topic/16707
 
did anyone hear it?

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 6, 2008 3:27 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

woo-hoo

bring on Calen Gindl. We need more big bats that can’t play the field

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 6, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

caleb

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Dec 6, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

“heavy”

sit*

by U-God on Dec 6, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hah

because Wisconsin residents are overweight

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 6, 2008 6:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know

but that doesn’t change anything

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 6, 2008 7:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Those Moron's!

On that site think they can get Jenks for Cameron?So dumb.

John Danks=Man Crush.

by Swish30 on Dec 6, 2008 3:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm a fan of getting Cameron.

Jenks is a bit too much. Who else they got? Bill Hall sucked it up last year.

www.stallingtheman.blogspot.com

by Raf on Dec 6, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like they're brewing something strong in Milwaukee
The Brewers match up pretty well with the Sox. Maybe Cameron, Hall, and Nelson for Dye and Jenks??? The Sox are cutting payroll and need a centerfielder. Dye is locked up for a couple of years, but he still is decent and can play RF with Hart moving to center.

My monitor is now covered in coffee

I wouldn’t trade Hall straight up for Jenks. With the departure of Branyan 3B is really weak and if you trade Hall in this deal you are either relying on Gamel to be playing 3B next year or finding another platoon option for Lamb or someone else. I don’t see how this improves the team.

Now it’s covered in vomit.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 6, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They wouldn’t trade Bill Hall for Bobby Jenks? Considering how awful their bullpen is that’s a surprise.

by Grinder in Training on Dec 6, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Jenks value is nearly as high as I thought it was

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s something like Jenks for Gwynn Jr. and a prospect that I don’t like given how the offseason is going….

by hitlesswonder on Dec 6, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2008 9:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 6, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

kenny on the winter meetings
Some of it is sure to happen in Sin City, though activity has been sleepy enough so far, and there is so much work for most teams to do, that much of it surely won’t be accomplished in the flurry between Monday and Thursday at the Bellagio.

“The week after the winter meetings, I think, is going to be the busiest that you’ve seen in a long time,” Chicago White Sox GM Kenny Williams said. "I don’t believe there are going to be very many trades because the market is flooded with free agents right now and the economy has slapped the industry smack in the face.

"I think there will be opportunities and realizations from both sides that what used to be the market is no longer the market as a result of the economy and the realities of the world.

 “There will be a precious few who get theirs, though.”

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/11154522/1

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 6, 2008 4:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Economy

Didn’t he say in the conference call that the economy wasn’t a motivation?

by StevenKerr on Dec 6, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sortof

I believe he mentioned that it must be considered

by 815Sox on Dec 6, 2008 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

bailey-parnell
According to a major-league source, Williams has asked one of his scouts about touted Reds right-hander Homer Bailey, whose development hit a speed bump last year. That could help the Sox because, after all, Floyd benefited from a change of scenery, and several teams might have run out of patience with their prospects.

Right-hander Bobby Parnell, whom Williams scouted in the Arizona Fall League, may be too valuable for the Mets to give up. But the New York, desperately trying to add a veteran starter and a closer, may need to give up such a young pitching prospect.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-07-white-sox-winter-meetingsdec07,0,515366.story

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 6, 2008 4:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Why hadn't I heard of Parnell before?

Oh yeah, because he’s mediocre. And 23. I expected some 18-year-old who plowed through rookie ball.

by Daniel Berlyn on Dec 6, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously

I’m getting tired of guys that are mediocre at best in the minors being made out to be valuable young prospects. I’ll be especially annoyed if the Sox start thinking Parnell and/or Kunz are something. Marquez is bad enough….

by hitlesswonder on Dec 6, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know that we are in cost cutting mode

But 4 years for 40 million for Furcal seems worth it to me… i know he denied the A’s at somewhere between 35-40 but he plays a hell of a SS, gets on base, and leads off. A Ram to center and Furcal to short…. with Furcal leading off…

Now please everyone criticize me and tell me it isn’t gonna happen. I know….. Just saying I think that is a decent bargain…. only time will tell i guess

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 6, 2008 6:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

We still dont know what Ches defense would be in CF though.

I really dont understand any proposed scenarios that have him out there. 2b and 3b are still question marks that would make more sense if we get another SS. Fields still has a chance to be average but we dont know if he has truly regressed since he wasnt healthy at all last year. And the competition at 2b hasnt even begun though I think Getz will earn his place on the 25 man at least.

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 6, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh wait Getz is still missing isnt he?

Damn you colin.

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 6, 2008 6:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to stop all this talk about A-Ram playing centre

did you see him out there? fucking hopeless, he’s an infielder, and his best possy is SS, and that is where I hope he’ll be playing next year.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 6, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

First of all it's center.

Secondly, I do do not remember him looking “fucking hopeless” or anything close to it. And I pride myself on watching a center fielder play defense.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 6, 2008 9:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He looked overmatched at the beginning of the year, bb.

A lot.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2008 9:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't remember that, WU.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 6, 2008 9:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Poor angles, uncertainty on balls hit in front of him (judging), poor decisions

re: throwing. Maybe he needs more time, but he picked up 2nd base faster than the position he played in the WBC.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What can I say.

Don’t remember it that way.

Maybe I was so happy not seeing JO, I looked past it. I’d give him another shot now that he’s acclimated to US, MLB.

I like Furcal @ SS, Missile in CF.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 6, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Devil's Advocate

I know that we know have Brent Lillebridge and Betemit but, what if the missile doesn’t cut it at SS. To me if a guy is an average SS he should be able to play the hell out of 2b. And no offense to the missile but, he didn’t play the hell out of 2b.

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 7, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't argue this with Colin . . .

130+ games is not enough to know how well Alexei’s defense was at 2B. I think his upside is as an average SS, but that he will be near the bottom of AL SS . . . though probably still ahead of Jeter.

by jc2313 on Dec 7, 2008 8:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would never argue with Colin

I was just stating that it seems that we are putting a lot of hope and faith on someone who hasn’t shown that they were above average at 2b. How that translates to his more natural SS position has yet to be seen.

I think that currently both of the backup SS/utility guys (Betemit, Lillibridge) have had limited success at the plate.

I realize that long term commitment to SS is unlikely. I was just stating that i think Furcal is a good value at the proposed years and money. As i stated only time will tell. Everyone thought it was a very good contract for Konerko when he resigned. I think that time has shown that we could have replaced his numbers for well below what he was being paid. I think that it is difficult to find an above average defensive SS who is comfortable batting leadoff and can steal a bag or 2.

There are red flags. Injury and Age. You would be purchasing his 31-34 age seasons. But this is a guy who was making close to 16 million last year. The fact that he can probably be had for 10 shows the current market.

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 7, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone thought Konerko’s contract was very good when he resigned? I don’t know about all that.. l think fans like him, but I don’t think anyone thought he would age well.

by Grinder in Training on Dec 7, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's definitely possible he sucks at short

but that’s not what i expect will play out.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am not expecting...

Just contemplating the what if’s and backup plans…

I guess i should spend my time thinking of our other problems… since this one has already been stated by KW.

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 7, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that it is entirely possible

That the Missile is a competent SS. Making a number of difficult plays and booting the occasional routine one. I’ve grown accustomed to this type of behavior from white sox infielders.

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 7, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if it helps, kenny has had better than average fielders at short

his whole tenure.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that must be

pride f’n with you.

by jc2313 on Dec 6, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm overruled, hoodlight.

I apologize.

But not about center.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 7, 2008 8:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A long term deal for a SS does not

make sense with Alexei there now and Beckham waiting in the wings. Money that can/needs to be spent elsewhere. Not too mention the back issues Furcal possesses . . . don’t see the Sox going down that road again.

by jc2313 on Dec 6, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you can get him for a one or two

for around $10M/year . . . but I still think someone else, maybe Balt. will step up and overpay.

by jc2313 on Dec 7, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

furcal wanted 4/52 says olney

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/heymans-lates-1.html

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right you lot

there’s a prog on Uk Tv on the top 100 movie tear jerkers, we are just about to move onto the top 5. Admin points for anyone who can guess any.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 6, 2008 6:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

ok as no one is playing here are the top 5

5. Ghost
4. It’s a Wonderful Life
3. Titanic
2. The Green Mile
1. E.T.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 6, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting list

It’s a Wonderful Life is sad? I thought it was meant to be uplifting.

Why so serious?

by reardenmettle on Dec 6, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

tear jerkers

dont necessarily need to be sad.

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 6, 2008 7:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Went up to the Cell today for the clubhouse sale

I bought a jersey of all of you guys’ favorite…..Ken Griffey Jr! For the lovely price of 35 american dollars.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 6, 2008 9:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Is it a "cool base" jersey?

Anyone here have a cool base? They look nice.

Way to go danks

bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 7, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I love this post.

I don’t agree with it, but I love this post. Keep the passion, Royster.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 6, 2008 9:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Poetic as fuck.

by JoeCoolMan24 on Dec 6, 2008 10:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You are a disgrace to Sox fans and I have to rec this post.

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 7, 2008 2:15 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Aww shit, Toonder. Aww shit, shaftr.

Go Marquette, go go go go!

(come on, let me have my moment in the sun. this could very well be Marquette’s high point before another first/second round exit in the tourney and fading into mediocrity next season.)

by CWSKeith on Dec 6, 2008 10:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The only one I didn't get on this list

was Greg Hibbard. I had put Jason Bere on it. Bere had 36 wins in a Sox uniform.

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Dec 7, 2008 1:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

So you don't know shit.

Bere. Christ.

:)

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2008 8:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

christ got them all.

a-rod is a traitor.

by larry on Dec 7, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you forget his record v. the Romans.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

their trapping style of play was difficult to overcome

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wicked.

Cashing checks and having sex.

by MarketMaker on Dec 7, 2008 7:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It has been decided, leadoff hitter for Sox in '09=Great Success, no leadoff hitter=Season in Shambles

If Williams doesn’t locate a leadoff hitter from outside the organization, then 2009 will be a rough rebuilding year.

FifthFeather.com

by El Duque's Raft on Dec 7, 2008 3:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

JERRY OWENS

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 7, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How much would it take to pry Ian Kinsler?

Way to go danks

bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 7, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

a lot

and by that i mean good pitching

sit*

by U-God on Dec 7, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You really are a bright one, arent you?

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 7, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am sorry...

Did I forget anyone here, who knew Swisher was available?

Way to go danks

bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 8, 2008 7:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They're wise to our act

"It never is, because I'm the Shogun. And before you get to the Shogun, you gotta go through a lot of ninjas."

by Ozzie Montana on Dec 7, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...

Probably not.

Way to go danks

bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 8, 2008 7:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

out late duque?

Way to go danks

bitch can’t throw more than 130 innings a season? Trade him. He has no balls

Kenwo4life=ratings

by KenWo4LiFe on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 PM CDT actions actions 0 recs

by Where Triples Go to Die on Dec 7, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you got it
Good leadoff man usually equals wins

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-081206-leadoff-hitter-baseball-rogers,0,3772436.column

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if hawk knew how to use projections
Using the Brock2 career projection formula, giving Conigliaro a normal and expected projection until age 42, he comes in at 3,371 career games, which would place him second all-time. It also gives him 817 home runs and 2,313 RBI.

http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=2113

by larry on Dec 7, 2008 9:55 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

dj?

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 8:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

dye / orca
• There have been reports that the White Sox are trying to move Jermaine Dye, but sources indicate that is overblown. The stark reality right now is that this is not a good climate for the White Sox to make a good deal involving Dye. He is set to make $11.5 million next year, with a $1 million buyout on an option for 2010, and the White Sox presumably would want decent return for the slugger. But if a team actually wanted a corner outfielder, they could simply offer a contract to a Bobby Abreu or a Dunn, rather than swap prospects to Chicago.

The White Sox have some depth from which to deal, writes Mark Gonzales.

• Some sources don’t expect Orlando Cabrera to accept the arbitration offer with the White Sox, even in the depressed shortstop market. Chicago is fully committed to playing Alexei Ramirez at shortstop, and Cabrera has been made aware of that. Even if he could get the most money by taking arbitration, he figures to be leery of remaining in a situation where he might not necessarily play very much — and at this stage in his career, the best thing for him might be to go and play some place, such as with the Baltimore Orioles.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3751733&name=olney_buster
 
h/t http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/olneys-latest-w.html

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I believe if OrCa accepts arbitration and stays with the team (i.e. if we can't trade him for value)

he will start at SS, current CW (and/or KW quotes) be damned.

i guess if you think a guy who is missing both testicles is healthy,
sure.

by winningugly on Dec 7, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

wuwuwuwu...

KW isn’t going to let his 2nd/3rd highest salary position player rot on the bench? after a 3 WAR season? surely you must be joking.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fuck that he didnt get a good glove.

No gold glove = shit defense.

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 7, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

didnt get a gold glove*

and im not even drinking right now.

I don't need to look at fancy stats

to see if a guy is good or not. You might have to.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 30, 2008 4:16 PM CST

by omnipotent grab on Dec 7, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

'08 BIS UZR (per fangraphs) had OC as the best defensive shortstop

he was about a 3 WAR player last year.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 1:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If he would have only called the official scorekeeper more

He might have been able to knock off a few more errors and been a 4 WAR

I am going to ask you one time, and i'm gonna ask you nice. Where the fuck is Ringo bitch.

by ElDiablo on Dec 7, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he accepts arbitration,

I’m buying US Cellular first thing in AM.

"I am not going out like SSH. "
by WTGTD, 12/3/08

by ballyb on Dec 7, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

i think the deadline is 11 pm

"KenWO
no point in arguing with people who are blinded from reality..."
by Where Triples Go to Die on Nov 29, 2008 6:49 PM

by Illini0509 on Dec 7, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fangraphs can haz uzr?

 
awesome with a capital A!

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what do you think about fukudome playing CF?

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/7/683887/uzr-now-on-fangraphs

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's where i wanted him to play for the Sox in '08

and it looks like the corner to CF translation is ~8 runs. if he can actually be +5 runs in CF, he’d only have to wOBA a .325 to be average. per here!

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

stop tooting your own horn!

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/12/3/678598/from-colintj-at-south-side
 
:p

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i had to fix it.

but i do really like the way i presented that info and i think it could really be useful for getting a feel for the total value of position players. in other words, i’m going to whore the hell out of that thing.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

While Getz rots.

EVERYBODY PICK US FOR 3RD OR 4TH SO I DINK WE DOIN POOTY GOO
Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Dec 7, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my neuroses are in full bloom

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but there are plenty of question marks there

he looked like shit at the plate for how long? plus that’s only 1 year’s worth of BIS data and most agree that you need 3 for certainty. so if you take his season +2 average seasons, that becomes +5, 0, 0 for just 1.67 RAA.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

but basically, i think the fielding data should be marcel'd so to speak

and everything should be significantly regressed. which is pretty much what Chone did, except he had both BIS and STATS data and he regressed to FSR. so while the UZRs are sweet to have, Chone’s system is probably more useful.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he will accept

what’s the feeling on you lot?

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 7, 2008 5:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

jesus, that's terrible English

I mean, ‘do my fellow posters think OC will accept arbitration or not?’.

number one when it mattered!

by hoodlight on Dec 7, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

there's a pretty significant incentive for him to get a long term deal if he can.

the economy looks shitty, the market at his position has been depressed the last few years and the furcal thing is making things look worse. my understanding of folks with his body type and position is that they peak and age rapidly, but he’s been pretty much the same hitter since he had his first 150 game season in 2001. in any case, his next contract starts with his age 34 season. that doesn’t normally bode well.

nothing gets ‘em wetter than infrequent postings on the city’s second favorite team

by colintj on Dec 7, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see him accepting

btw, here’s heyman:

Orlando Cabrera (.281 avg., 8 HR, 57 RBIs, $10 million). Very nice player isn’t wanted by the White Sox, which likes its cost-effective DP combo of Alexei Ramirez and Chris Getz. General manager Ken Williams apparently even suggested on a conference call that Cabrera could be a backup if he accepts. It would be interesting if he took it and got $11-12 million in arbitration. But if Edgar Renetria can get $18.5 over two years, I have to think Cabrera can do even better than that. Less than 50-50.

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/29681

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

kenny wants to get younger
Jermaine Dye: Javier Vazquez and Nick Swisher already have been exported from the south side of Chicago. The consensus says Dye is next. “I’m hearing more and more that he’s the next in line,” one NL executive said. The Braves, Reds and Royals have shown interest. It’s believed the Rays at least kicked Dye’s tires. And some Mets rumors have floated, even though adding an outfielder is deep on their priorities list. But Dye won’t be the only White Sox rumor you’ll hear this week. Keep your ears peeled for Paul Konerko and Jim Thome talk, too. “They’ve made clear that any of their veteran guys are available,” one exec said. “They want to get younger.”

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings081207

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 5:37 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

cincinnati
Jocketty won’t comment on the trade talks, but he acknowledged that the Reds have talked to the White Sox about several players.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081207/COL09/812070415

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 5:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

hawk told kenny to get AJ?
Four winters ago, White Sox general manager Ken Williams heard announcer Ken Harrelson’s sales pitch on behalf of abandoned catcher A.J. Pierzynski.

It turned out to be one of Williams’ wisest moves. Pierzynski was signed as a free agent and evolved into one of the most valuable Sox over the last four seasons.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-07-white-sox-winter-meetingsdec07,0,515366.story

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 6:10 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

wait

you didn’t know hawk was really the one making all the calls?

Thank you,
these bumblefucks think the Sox are going to trade Dye. I said I would cancel my membership on here in martyrdom of Dye being traded.

by Jbasic89 on Dec 7, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Errrr....

you haven’t heard Hawk talk about that a hundred times since then? Or maybe you meant to include a “clearly”.

Welcome to Nowhere. How did the treadmill get us here?

by defensive indifference on Dec 7, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no clearly...

must’ve forgotten it/missed it

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 8:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

tim brown
What’s new: More than a few scouts were dismayed to see 19-year-old Cuban Dayan Viciedo out of shape at his Dominican workout last month, but they agreed he could hit, and the White Sox made him rich. It seems a longshot, but there’s some talk he could play third base or shortstop for the White Sox this season, or they could turn him into an outfielder.

What’s old: A rival GM revealed weeks ago the White Sox were shopping every decent-sized contract they had (and maybe he wasn’t exaggerating that much), and so far Kenny Williams has traded away Nick Swisher and Javier Vazquez, or almost $17 million off 2009 alone.

Winter meetings: And Jermaine Dye would make it about $28 million. He is being shopped and there would be plenty of interest. In fact, he’d make a lot of sense for the Mets.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-alwm120608&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 8:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

payroll
Even though the White Sox won the AL Central in 2008, they apparently lost money.

Williams said getting younger is his prime objective this winter, but cutting the 2008 payroll ($121 million) ranks a close second.

“If there’s something out there, whether it be by trade or through free agency, we’ll explore it,” Williams said. “But there are parameters we have right now. Payroll-wise, we are bumping up against our break-even point as we sit here today.”

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=256402

The greatest trick the White Sox ever pulled was convincing their fan base that "Ozzieball" ever existed.

by The Wizard on Dec 7, 2008 9:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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