This is a joke right?

by The Wizard on Feb 1, 2008 1:31 PM CST in News Comment 115 comments

Sox print ad (click to enlarge)

From the Front Page of the San Diego Padres SBN blog:

Home Run Derby just exposed the White Sox. Those unimaginative, sorry bunch of South Siders have just totally ripped off the Padres tradition of wearing Camouflage. Everybody loves to insult us for wearing ugly uniforms whether it be the brown and mustard unis of yesteryear or the camouflage of the present. Even if you think it's a bad idea, at least it was ours.

There is only one Team of the Military and every body knows it's the the Padres. The rest of these teams are unpatriotic communists. You know it's true.

Apparently it was Mark Buehrle who magically came up with the idea while watching any number of Padres games over the last decade. Not only did he insist that the White Sox wear the camo on the 4th of July, but he had it put into his contract. Buehrle is a fraud and a war profiteer!

The White Sox are a disgrace. I'm calling for Congress to get involved. I want Mark Buehrle under oath! Let's have him tell Uncle Sam where he came up with this idea, so that we can put him behind bars where all copy cats belong!

***** In other news,

Happy Birthday to SoxMachine.
The Sox purchased the contract of 26-year old RHRP Matt Davis. Davis had a 2.98 ERA with 41 K and 26 BB in 45.1 IP as the closer of the Winnipeg Goldeyes of the the independent Northern League.
Andrew is happy for Johan's departure.
Tango asks How many plate appearances does Juan Pierre have left in MLB?.
And Carls's latest 'Smells Like Mascot' comic strip: Committed.

0 recs | Comment 115 comments

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Comments

I hope that's not true.

The camo uniforms in San Diego are hideous.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 1:37 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

oh, it's true alright.

there are comments in some thread from the past week about it.

also, jre, should we consider a meeting of the wesside branch of the south side sox? at the very least for a brew at a giants-sox or a's-sox game?

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Feb 1, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps...

although I've got some plans this summer. I'll have to get back to you on this.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Feb 1, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm new here but....

I'm down for seeing the sox play the giants. Last year I saw them play Oakland a handful of times (it has the added benefit of being cheaper cause I'm a poor grad student).

by elcheeserino on Feb 1, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Which fine institution are you attending?

Grad school in the bay area is certainly tough on the finances; further incentive to graduate!

That's a piece of crap. We stopped selling that six months ago. Nice gesture, though. - Beanie

by rhythm on Feb 2, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

rhythm?

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Feb 1, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm all for it

I plan on catching at least one Sox-Giants game in SF and certainly a few games at the Coliseum this year.

I don't have tickets for anything yet, so any game is cool with me.

That's a piece of crap. We stopped selling that six months ago. Nice gesture, though. - Beanie

by rhythm on Feb 2, 2008 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Old Story

Thanks to HomeRun Derby for emailing every large baseball blog trying to drum up traffic. And thanks to Wiz for linking to SBN's excellent Padres blog, always humorous, and written with tongue firmly planted in cheek. (Dex will no come over here and go on a 30 comment rant)

Mark Gonzales dutifully reported this almost a week ago, and we posted it as soon as we saw it. (If you're keeping track, that's two compliments of Gonzales' work in the last week.)

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 1, 2008 1:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Enough Gonzo love

Until he goes to the DR and weighs Profundo.

Now THAT would be reporting!

Next time, Bhoov, do some research.

by Chiburb on Feb 1, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's utilizing the blog well

Not great. Still needs to add links to other newpapers and blogs from around the net, but he's using it well in that he's getting all that little stuff that doesn't belong in the paper out for us junkies to devour.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 1, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm surprised it took that long

For somebody to pick up what the Southtown was doing. Whalen didn't have the sources others did, but he was doing the blog thing way earlier than anybody else.

The Sun-Times still hasn't embraced it, which surprises me and doesn't surprise me at the same time. They seem to have lots of other problems to deal with right now.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Feb 1, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

like cowley and couch.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Feb 1, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All I know...

If somehow your camo unis somehow get better reception than our camo unis, it will shoot my San Diego sports inferiority complex through the roof. We've been getting grief over camouflage for years. If somehow Mark Buehrle convinces people that camouflage truly looks good on a baseball uniform, my mind will be blown.

----------
Gaslamp Ball

by Dex on Feb 1, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Buehrle

proposed to his wife while in a tree stand. He thinks that a camo wedding dress looks good.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 1, 2008 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Please

Buehrle doesn't want to wear cammies to support the troops. He just doesn't want to have to change on his way out to go hunting after the game. I'm surprised he didn't ask for the players to wear the bright orange deer hunting jackets out on the field.

by BridgeportJoe on Feb 1, 2008 2:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well put.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Feb 1, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Camo

The Sox should wear the black/white/gray urban style camo, to stick with their color scheme and distinguish themselves from the Padres.

by Ryno on Feb 1, 2008 3:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

that would be sweet

well, better anyway. but it'll just piss of MB and we can't afford that. we've got to compete!

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 1, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

which brings us to

the worst unis ever. The Padres would have sevral entries incuding the camos. there are the Pirates of the 70's and Bill Vecks softball unis. Maybe some one should strat a poll.

by spadog on Feb 1, 2008 4:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Unimaginative, my ass. Sorry, perhaps.

Who else but the Sox marketing dept. thought of game time at 7:11 tying in with Slurpees?

Think about THAT!

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 4:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of uniform promos

I know this is sacrilege to purists, but I think the Sox should be the first team to put ads on their uniforms. I would think it would bring in a ton of revenue and give us a monetary advantage for a couple years. Not sure if it's even allowed under current MLB uniform rules, but if so, I say go for it. Non-US soccer teams have been doing it for years and they don't look like NASCAR drivers, the oft-cited nightmare scenario. I think following that model could work.

It seems like an inevitability anyway, so why not be first and gain an advantage? Obviously there'd be a ton of initial backlash and cries of selling out, but I don't think it would hurt nearly as much as the money you'd bring in would help.

by Ryno on Feb 1, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ugh....

That would be horrible. Do you remember when they tried to promote SpiderMan by putting the logo on the bases for the All-Star game? Well, it never happened. MLB ended up abandoning the initiative before the game because of the negative reaction it received from fans.

The big three (MLB, NFL, NBA) do not do this, and none of them are strapped for cash. As long as these businesses are still swimming in pools of money, then I don't see any reason to mess up the jerseys with advertisements.

Besides the game itself, jerseys have remained largely unchanged throughout history (other than style).

Just because it works for NASCAR and soccer does NOT mean it would work for baseball.

by BoKnows on Feb 1, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just did a little research

And it is currently against MLB rules, but I expect that to change eventually. MLB teams have worn sleeve patch and helmet sticker ads for exhibition games in Japan already, so it doesn't seem like it's that far off.

And I agree that it will be wildly unpopular, but I don't think too many people would actually boycott the games, and then it would eventually blow over, and in the meantime maybe you've gotten a leg up on the competition. Frankly, I'm personally not a fan of it from an aesthetic standpoint, but I think it's inevitable so the Sox might as well be the first to reap the benefits. I don't know why teams like the Pirates and Royals aren't petitioning MLB to let them do it (maybe they are), since they have nothign to lose.

by Ryno on Feb 1, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good...and here's to hoping that never changes.

by BoKnows on Feb 1, 2008 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Remember the Spider Man ads

they proposed a few years ago? Weren't they going to have wspider webs on each of the bases to promote the movie, anddecided it was against the rules?

No ads on the goddamn unis, Bo.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, I've had a bunch of Rioja

and just foujd out I can't type well whilst loaded. Sorry.

NO ADS ON THE UNIS, BO!

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

found

Rioja is good stuff after a long week, boys.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think you have to say it to Bo!

by The Wizard on Feb 1, 2008 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, WTF WU?

Get all over Ryno, not me. I'm on your side.

Have another.

by BoKnows on Feb 1, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The MLS actually has

on uniform sponsoring now, I'm fairly sure.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cws keith...

looks like keith and sharp went all zambrano and barrett. isn't it bad enough that they're playing like crap, let alone starting to resemble the cubs in other ways as well?

"Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines."

by Toonderstrook on Feb 1, 2008 5:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'll tell you what's a disgrace

To change subject for a second.

No. 1 the freaking Bulls. We all know why.

No. 2 John freaking Paxson. Buddy I am thru giving you a pass. After the Lakers last trade, take your thumb out of your ass and do something. Does a big man have to slap you to get some real inside help?

Schueler Jr is so in love with his players no can be traded.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 1, 2008 5:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Report: Mets, Santana agree to extension...

The New York Post is reporting that the Mets and Johan Santana have agreed to a contract extension.
No terms yet. Now only the physicals is standing in the way of the five-player deal.

Source: New York Post

Oh, happy day!

by SSH2005 on Feb 1, 2008 6:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

6 years, ~23 mil per year

[SI]:

According to sources, the deal is believed to be for $150.75 million total -- $137.5 for six years on top of the $13.35 million for 2008 his Twins contract called for. It is believed about $7 million of the new money will be paid as a signing bonus, bringing Santana's '08 take-home pay to about $20 million.

google says: 137.5 / 6 = 22.9166667

by The Wizard on Feb 1, 2008 6:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ken Rosenthal agrees...

Ken Rosenthal wrote:

The Mets locked up Santana for the next seven years, signing him to a six-year, $137.5 million extension on top of the final year of his current deal, which is valued at $13.25 million. The total value of the package is $150.75 million, making his new average salary more than $21.5 million -- a record for a pitcher on a long-term contract.

by SSH2005 on Feb 1, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If anyone is worthy, it's Johan

New York, NL, 29 years old, Latino in Queens, most domianting pitcher in the majors at present - perfect fit.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

for all you BP subscribers

PECOTA is out.

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 6:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

and who do i look up first? just for wiz

your boy is projected for negative VORP next year, in a part time role. 1.9 WARP.

and here's one i'm sort of shocked at: alexei ramirez. .295/.342/.452 in a largely full-time role (505 PA) at 2B. all i've gotta say about that is sign me the fuck up.

richar .260/.315/.415 in full-time role at 2B (yes, they both can't play there full-time).

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

swish .265/.373..501

fields .256.334/.463

quentin .263/.349/.439 (365 PA)

egbert 4.99/1.55 WHIP in 31 G/20 GS

danks 5.54/ 1.56 WHIP in 28 G/ 19 GS

contreras 5.00/ 1.49 WHIP in 30 G/ 19 GS 127 IP

floyd 5.65 / 1.52 WHIP in 30 G 16 GS

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ouch!

by The Wizard on Feb 1, 2008 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We'll start some community projections

next week

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 1, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Those aren't bad...

Obviously, the 3-5 in the rotation is pretty lousy -- the Sox can't contend with that. But that's not exactly news. The projections for the Sox younger hitters are fairly encouraging.

If the Sox defense isn't somehow abysmal and 1 of the 3/4/5 pitchers pulls a good season out of somewhere they could be an 85 win team or so.

BTW, if Ramirez could meet his projection while playing a solid SS, can the Sox rescind the Cabrera trade? Or at least forget signing Cabrera long-term? Actually, the latter is great reason to hope Ramirez plays well.

by hitlesswonder on Feb 1, 2008 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

probably because i chose the ones that aren't

that bad. some more:

dye: .265/.334/.484

okay, right? the catch: 490 plate appearances

cabrera: .269/.323/.372

owens: .264/.321/.338

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 9:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

pitching

broadway: 6.68 ERA 1.74 WHIP, 32 games, 16 starts

MB: 4.77 ERA 1.41 WHIP (always PECOTA whipping boy but note: 28 games, 172.7 IP)

javy: 3.94 ERA 1.27 WHIP (always a PECOTA fave)

by larry on Feb 1, 2008 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As always and in this case thankfully

PECOTA is always better with hitting projections than pitching.

ABs is spotty. Methinks of the big three 1 should have normal abs. 1 is under and 1 could go either way.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 2, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

is that right?

my recollection is that their pitching projections are pretty good.

by larry on Feb 2, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i bet

you're one of those fantasy players who wants an accurate ERA projection. i just included that because if i start posting peripherals people will just want to know what the ERA is. yes, predicting ERA is sort of like predicting RBI: kind of difficult and, frankly, not all that illluminating.

by larry on Feb 2, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes and No

Yes I do play fantasy.

No I was speaking in regards to over pitching numbers. Over the past 4 years or so PECOTA has probably done the best among the overall projections (even for pitching), however the coefficient efficiency numbers for pitching are still generally poor compared to hitting.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 2, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

right

because those use projected ERA v. actual ERA as the comparison.

i understand your point: don't take the ERA as gospel.

by larry on Feb 2, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wow.

They like Egbert. More than Danks, Floyd, Broadway, and almost Contreras!

Jeeeeeeeez.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 2, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, that's a nice year for Richar

Just about league average, can definitely live with that. My fear is that he'll be on a very short leash with El Gordo behind him on the bench, he better start hot this spring and stay hot.

I don't see Ozzie being very patient with anyone, this team is in Win Now mode. I hope he's fair and keeps a short leash on Contreras.

"Swisher's versatility allows us to give Owens a chance to come back and show he's ready to be that sparkplug like Podsednik was a couple of years ago." - KW

by ChicagoPete on Feb 2, 2008 7:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not that close to league average

If we are going to take the PECOTA offensive projections at face value, then Ramirez is your starting 2B. Using last year's AL lgOBA and lgSLG, their PECOTA projected OPS+ would be:

Richar = 88
Ramirez = 104

by 3E8 on Feb 2, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I know its gone back under the radar

But PECOTA seems to heavily suggest the White Sox need to get rid of Uribe. Or reverse the Cab trade (which isnt happening). If Alexei does show himself ready, what are the chances Juan can be moved in ST?

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 2, 2008 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wow....!

Sign me up too! The Garland-OC trade looks like poo to me now that we got Ramirez.

Ramirez at SS and a platoon of Richar/Uribe at 2B would be sweet. Or OC at SS and Ramirez at 2B would be nice too.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 2, 2008 10:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We signed Ramirez for $1 million per

for 4 years, after he tried out for everyone to see. Probably not going to achieve the projections.

"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Feb 2, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point...

but it's not like there hasn't been ridiculous steals before. Wasn't Johan Santana a Rule 5 pickup himself? Don't those only cost around $50,000 dollars?

by SSH2005 on Feb 2, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yup

the marlins took him in the rule 5 n traded him 15 minutes later

by Jbasic89 on Feb 2, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Schadenfreude

Massive Snowstorm Brings Nearly A Foot
This Is The Fourth Snowiest Winter In 25 Years
CHICAGO (CBS) ¯ The Chicago area is digging out from a snowstorm that has dumped nearly a foot in some areas, and given a lot of people a good excuse for being late for work.

The snow that began on Thursday afternoon had begun to subside by 11 a.m., but not before dumping 7.4 inches of snow at O'Hare International Airport. At CBS 2, 8.5 inches of snow fell. In Berwyn, there were 10.2 inches, in Elburn 11 inches.

As CBS 2's Rafael Romo reports, it took some commuters three times as long as normal to get downtown from the neighborhoods or the suburbs Friday morning. The Kennedy Expressway looked like a frozen parking lot, and patience was running out.

"Terrible - a lot of delays, a lot of accidents; it was very bad," said Jesus Ruiz of Chicago. "It took us a few hours we got stuck in snow like five times. It's not a pretty good sight."

Nearly a foot of snow covered streets, sidewalks and steps.

BWAHAHAHA! 80 degrees here - maybe move the ST meeting?

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 6:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Our stats are freely available

at the bottom of the site, but there's no long-term graph like the one which Jim published. I plugged in the monthly values into ZOHO and here's the result.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 1, 2008 7:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Unstable, unpredictable, scary fans

Stripping Soulja Boy and the other goofbal out of the equation, does it smooth out a bit?

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 1, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah

the big dives are directly related to the Sox playoff chances... They stayed in it until mid-September in '06, then interest crashed. The off-season was a quiet one, and interest was relatively low leading up to the season last year, which should have been a warning sign. The spike last June-July was from the speculation of impending trades, and once that didn't happen interest crashed.

We've has some suprisingly strong interest all off-season thus far, which should hopefully bode well both for SSS's future growth and the White Sox season in general.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 1, 2008 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I call...

...being a comfortable No. 1.

I remember that uptick in October 2005 looking pretty big at the time.

Sox Machine

by Sox Machine on Feb 1, 2008 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Akin to the NASDAQ in March, 2000

If there was a way to short the Sox it would've been the time to do it.

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 2, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

protrade.com

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

stats

Your page views / visits look impressive. What is your bounce rate?

MrROFL.com

by shaftr on Feb 3, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sox acquired RHRP Doug Davis

The Sox purchased the contract of 26-year RHRP Matt Davis. Davis had a 2.98 ERA with 41 K and 26 BB in 45.1 IP as the closer of the Winnipeg Goldeyes of the the independent Northern League.

by The Wizard on Feb 1, 2008 9:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Not Doug Davis

that would be news.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 1, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, pretty big news...

Thanks for the unnecessary cock-tease, thewizardsofoz.

by SSH2005 on Feb 2, 2008 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not surprising I know

but Keith Law ranked the farm systems here with the White Sox ranked last.

San Francisco is ranked 9. Are there any prospects that SF would be willing to part with for Crede?

I would think its more favorable for SF to dump salary of a back end starting pitcher rather than ship prospects. From the Sox perspective, I would opt stocking the system with prospects rather another back end starting pitcher which we have plenty of. That said, it wouldn't sit well with fans, because Crede is fan favorite.

by onlysoxfaninboston on Feb 2, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

that is a link to google...

by Jbasic89 on Feb 2, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoops!

here it is

by onlysoxfaninboston on Feb 2, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Again I ask

The Sox are last - Oakland 10th... I believe 4 of Oaklands top prospects were Sox... Something isn't correct. The Oakland system was bad till they added players from a worse system? Minor league players are so subjective to opinion till you see them with some experience... even limited, in the majors. I am def. missing something here.

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Feb 3, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm not understanding your logic

if you take the best players from a similar to worse system, why wouldn't your system improve? at any rate, what you're missing is that they also acquired players like carlos gonzalez and brett anderson, who are both better than the ex-sox prospects. remember the dan haren trade?

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

I forgot about the other trade - got focussed on the Sox deal and forgot about the Haren deal. I can see infusing 6 players into a system moving it up rapidly in ratings.

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Feb 3, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

SF's top prospects are all pretty raw

Some can't be traded yet as they haven't been with the team long enough. Any of note would take more than Crede to obtain.

by 3E8 on Feb 2, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

San Fran is 9th?!?!

They have no one. I've checked.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

villalona?

by larry on Feb 2, 2008 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't he just finish rookie ball?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

based on wiz's list, it makes little sense to me

to me to grant that those pitchers, all well under 23 and without minor league experience as far as I can tell (firstinning and b-r). The single non-pitcher hasn't even completed A ball and the three of them still can't be traded for a few months more. What actual value do they have? How do Egbert and Shelby alone not have more? It looks to me like he's seduced by potential without regard for significant evidence that they will achieve it.

I feel a little overly invested in being right at the moment, so double check me for sure on the above and below, but it seems to me that you gauge the value of a farm system based on the value in major league innings acquirable. In my estimate, 3 first round draft picks and a guy who just completed rookie ball aren't that. And I don't even mean just to me. GMs don't either, right? If the majority of your talent hasn't even completed A ball, you don't have a good system, right?

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 8:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cheat likes Alderson

and referring to himself in the 3rd person

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 2, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i remember Cheat hoping the sox

picked Alderson, but i don't recall what Cheat said specifically.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tall, thin HS pitcher

with plus plus control, low-90's fastball, plus curve, funky delivery.

He's about as safe a bet as you can get from a HS pitcher in that as long as he stays healthy he should end up as a back end guy. With his frame, however, he could add some velocity, develop a plus change and suddenly you're looking at a guy with ace potential.

Think of him as a HS version of McCarthy crossed with Garland.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 3, 2008 12:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Branjon McGarthy?

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Feb 3, 2008 3:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Funky Delivery?

That doesn't sound good. Anyway, I do respect your opinion (and Law's, though he's come off as quite the ass more than a few times, imo, especially when challenged), but if an 18 year old has at least 3 years to go to reach the bigs and 5 to get through the injury nexus, it's my feeling (because I don't have the data) that counting on any of that despite TINSTAAP is foolhardy.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 3, 2008 4:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

keith law says

BBTF (#47):

Alderson, Bumgarner, Noonan, and Fairley are all very promising prospects who are just a long ways off. It's more than just Villalona and Sosa.

by The Wizard on Feb 2, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

of course they're all guys

that i couldn't find checking A through AAA. damned unqualified statements. still think he's wrong though.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 8:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i wouldn't call them ninth

but they certainly have some stuff. i would have taken villalona over anyone the sox had in their farm system at the beginning of this offseason. and obviously i'd still take him. premium talent.

by larry on Feb 2, 2008 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i can't comment because i don't have any info

on him outside what i read from BP a year ago. certainly a good showing in rookie ball for a 17 year old. i just object to making so much of someone who's so far away from realizing potential.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh also

still don't think liverpool will find themselves outside the top 4?

...not that i made a prediction otherwise or anything.

His little smile pissed me off.

by colintj on Feb 2, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they could screw it up

but they certainly shouldn't.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just saw this

I guess someone must have been upset about the cold Midwest weather.

I hope no one here is affected.

That's a piece of crap. We stopped selling that six months ago. Nice gesture, though. - Beanie

by rhythm on Feb 2, 2008 6:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

My 1986 Sox are dead

2-9 in their last 11. Lost 5 in a row. Yesterday we fell below .500 for the first time this year, and today we're another game under.

If we don't climb back to even soon, I'm afraid we'll sink much further in the second half.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 3, 2008 1:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

You can't get a dollar back if you

only offer 50 cents, Cheat. Ugly lineup. Magnificent job managing. (Though it seems to have one to your head - third-person referrals and all. Who's your agent?)

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 3, 2008 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

looks like the indians got their juan silveiro

supposedly signing DR wonderkid and boras client SS edward salcedo for $2.9M. if true, they may be on the way to rebuilding that latin pipeline which seemed to dry up for them the last decade or so.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 10:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

BA's Chris Kline says deal not done yet

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=721

by The Wizard on Feb 3, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

most interesting question for AL central teams

Indians: Can C.C. Sabathia be signed? The big left-hander won the AL Cy Young Award last year, and is the undisputed staff ace. However, he is also eligible for free agency at the end of this upcoming season, and GM Mark Shapiro wants to know by the end of spring training if the Indians have any chance of re-signing Sabathia. You can be assured Sabathia will use the six-year, $137.5 million deal Johan Santana got from the Mets on Friday as a guidepost in his negotiations.

Tigers: Is the starting rotation ready and rested? Left-handers Nate Robertson and Kenny Rogers spent time on the disabled list last season, as did right-hander Jeremy Bonderman. While lefty Dontrelle Willis stayed healthy with Florida and pitched 205 1/3 innings, his SNLVAR was pretty weak (2.0), and he is switching to the much tougher league.

Royals: Who will fill out the final two spots in the rotation? Right-hander Brett Tomko generated just 0.7 SNLVAR in a combined 131 1/3 innings with the Dodgers and Padres last season, and is probably favored for one slot. He is followed by righty Luke Hochevar, the top pick in the 2006 draft. Also in the mix will be left-handers John Bale and Jorge De La Rosa and right-handers Kyle Davies, Luke Hudson, Hideo Nomo, and Leo Nuñez.

Twins: Is Francisco Liriano fully recovered? The left-hander missed last season because of reconstructive elbow surgery following an outstanding rookie season in 2006 in which he had 4.7 SNLVAR in 121 innings. With Johan Santana shipped off to the Mets, the Twins need Liriano to be ready to front a young starting rotation.

White Sox: Who will play third base? Joe Crede is the incumbent, but he could also be used as trade bait for a starting pitcher since Josh Fields is ready to take over. Crede had a -10.8 VORP in 178 plate appearances last season before undergoing back surgery, while Fields stepped in as a rookie and posted a solid 8.2 VORP in 418 PA.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7098

the most interesting of these is the tigers. i still don't trust that pitching (relief, too). they will score runs but, if they want to be serious contenders, they're going to have to prevent a some, too.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 11:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I have spent quite a bit of time on PECOTA

the past couple of days, at least offensively. I came away feeling good and bad. The good is I believe Clevland is definitely overrated perception wise. There were signs last year (the 2nd half offensive performance). But looking at things from a VORP and WARP level the White Sox are right there.

The bad is Detroit is better offensively than I hoped. Their numbers are just sick.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 3, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

who was overrating the indian offense?

didn't they score like 800 runs last year? it is and has been about their pitching (just like it usually is for every team). they competed well when it was good (2005 and 2007) and didn't when it wasn't quite as good (2006). what you think the indians will do depends more upon how much you buy a guy like sabathia continuing his form of the last two seasons (and avoiding injury), whether you think carmona is for real, and whether the backend of their rotation and bullpen remains solid.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

our most interesting question is 3B?

Pffffft.

That is hardly a question in my book. It's pretty much solved. Crede's gone.

What about our rotation? Isn't that a bigger question?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 3, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

didn't he get both of those questions in there?

what was it that he said the sox would want to move crede for?

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

any team would want to trade lead weight

for a starting pitcher. that's no news. But clearly he is overstating the 3B problem and not focusing on the back end of our rotation, 2 spots projected to give up 5 runs per start, and a huge question mark on another starter, the Count, who could very possible be done for the year by july or ineffective by august.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 3, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it's not a question

because we know who it's going to be. sorry if i wasn't clear but it's most interesting ST question. there ain't much happening for the sox in ST other than joe crede getting traded.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

oh. 'ST question...'

makes sense now.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 4, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by the way

while "backend of rotation sucks" may qualify as interesting to you, he'd be writing the same thing for about fifteen teams. he's a journalist. i'd hope he could come up with something a bit better than that. this article isn't written for a sox audience.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

But I mean the team in general. I mean if I compare the back end rotation and bullpens of the teams I certainly dont see a huge difference.

And taking a few of those items and the pretty much accepted theory the improved White Sox are competing for 3rd place, sort of implies this great divide between them and the Tigers and Indians. My point is in looking at PECOTA the Sox and Indians are not that far apart.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 3, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you must be looking at different players

or numbers than me. sabathia, carmona, byrd, laffey, westbrook, and miller seem to be projected to do quite a bit better than javy, MB, contreras, floyd, danks, and broadway. bullpens, who knows. projections are largely worthless for that.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ZiPS - PECOTA

I seem to remember one system's projections are more accurate for hitters, and the other system's are more accurate for pitchers

can someone remind me which is which?

by The Wizard on Feb 3, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hiiters for PECOTA

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 3, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

PECOTA wins both in 2007

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=569

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=564

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lol

Im looking at PECOTA. And I said backend rotation and bullpens.

What all you looking at? Certainly if you toss out bullpens and add in Broadway it becomes a bit more lopsided.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 3, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

i'm not sure what you mean to achieve by throwing out the top end starters from a comparison - what does that accomplish. i listed the likely top six of each team. i don't think it's particularly controversial to suggest that, certainly for the white sox, it is well within the realm of possibility that one or more of floyd, contreras and danks will not make all their starts and someone like broadway will make a few. i am on record here - and other studies back me up - that when comparing starting pitching one should go six, not five, deep because rarely does a team not have someone(s) make a significant number of starts.

and if you don't buy that, throw out broadway and miller. contreras, danks, and floyd are no match (according to the projections) for the backend of the cleveland staff.

finally, i simply don't look at projections for bullpens. it's a meaningless endeavor. i will certainly concede the sox pen is fine and could easily perform as well or better than the indians.

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not trying to accomplish anything

I merely responded to your initial post. My feelings about the top end Buerhle, Vasq, CC and Carmona are certainly important but jaded bacause I know the systems have a tought time with Buerhle.

I also agree about 6 pitchers in general, but there is really no guarantee who would deserve or get the extra Sox starts.

Its all good. The season is close and much of this will play out during the season. Im sure we will also began to put on "blog" are expectation of wins for each team.

Im headed out to watch the bowl. Enjoy your Sunday.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 3, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And judging by my typos

The spirits are flowing!

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 3, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

miggy gimpy

The Aragua Tigers lost their big star, Miguel Cabrera, to their Detroit namesakes. Cabrera had been suffering some problems with his left leg, which left him visibly gimpy in the Venezuelan league's final series.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7099

by larry on Feb 3, 2008 1:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs