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Rounding up some projections

Baseball Musings' David Pinto has been running some probable lineups through his lineup analysis tool. Today, he plugged in the White Sox, who he projects to have a considerable offensive improvement. The lineup he uses includes both Joe Crede and Josh Fields, but no Carlos Quentin. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference, because Quentin projects to get on base more than Crede though with a little less power.

His projections for the AL Central are as follows:

Indians: 5.60 R/G
Tigers: 5.58 R/G
White Sox: 5.29 R/G
Twins: 4.87 R/G
Royals: 4.82 R/G

Those are quick and dirty projections which use only 9 starters, so all the teams are likely to come in under those runs/game numbers when they start going to the bench. Even so, I think it's safe to say that's an upgrade from the 4.28 runs/game the Sox scored last year.


Buehrle's monstrous ride
I went another step further, removing Crede and Richar and adding Quentin (ZiPS) and Ramirez (PECOTA) to come up with a lineup which generates 5.40 R/G. Still not enough to compete with the top dogs in the division, but a substantial improvement compared to last season.
* * * * *

Xeifrank has also contributed with a number of different ZiPS-based simulations. First, he had the Sox compete against the other central teams with dubious results. Next, he ran them through their schedule, again dubiously. Finally, he added Egbert, who has much more favorable projections, to the rotation and Alexei Ramirez, who has a bit of an unbelievable PECOTA line, to come up with some reasonable yet still disappointingly mediocre seasons.

* * * * *

0 recs  |  Comment 71 comments

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Is Ken a Phillies fan
Maybe that's why the intern (rookie) was named Ryan Howard.  Howard won the ROY during the Office's first season.

by 3E8 on Feb 7, 2008 10:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

the itern was named ryan howard
because howard was mvp of the minor league team in Scranton during the seasons first season.

by Jbasic89 on Feb 7, 2008 11:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

projections
I finally add my projections in the diary, I really am not very good at it.  I just look at minor league and major league numbers, add some hunch and just throw out some numbers.  It's hard to make sure everything is to scale.

by shaftr on Feb 7, 2008 11:20 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I digress, but....
...will Josh Fields' interesting comments make Ozzie go extra cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs?

>>"When I got my first taste of the big leagues in 2006, it was everything that I had dreamed about," Fields said. "But the further I got into my professional career, the more I had to deal with everything else that goes along with being a professional athlete. There were so many things going on in the clubhouse that I really questioned if professional baseball was for me. However, I prayed about it and realized there is nowhere I could have more influence right now than in that clubhouse."<<

What all was going on in that clubhouse? I blame AJ for freakin' the kid out!

Stretch!

by stevegoz on Feb 7, 2008 11:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Trucks and projections
Lieber's truck is ridiculous. Why?

As for projections... It appears the x-factor was, and still is, the Sox pitching. If the Tigers and Indians can somehow get some injuries, the Sox might just squeek by them.

It's gonna take a little bit of voodoo magic, but it could happen.

Now, everyone get their Justin Verlander and CC Sabathia dolls out and start plugging away.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 8, 2008 6:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

No voodoo.
Just very good seasons from Jose, Danks and Floyd.
"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Feb 8, 2008 6:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it'll take
Don Cooper, known voodoo practitioner, to achieve that.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Feb 8, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

WHATEVER it takes.
"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Feb 8, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know its sad when
I have a dodge dakota, and it only get 3 miles a gallon better (when not if 4 wheel)... than Lieber's
So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Feb 8, 2008 7:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

IMO
No way that thing gets 12 mpg.
"All this has done is put the Tigers in a better position to contend with us."

by ballyb on Feb 8, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Diesels...
just get better mileage. Still. That thing is a tank.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 8, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

diesels are more efficient
so 12 mpg for a diesel is really, really crappy - equivalent to about 9 mpg for a gasoline engine.

I've had food babies that were better looking than those trucks, and probably got better mileage to boot!

Seriously, what is with the general obsession with ugly vehicles? A guy in my neighborhood has a black (?) lexus with dubs that has 8" red, green, yellow, white, and blue lexus symbols painted all over the car, much like those ugly hats / hoodies that seem to be ubiquitous these days. One of the ugliest cars I have ever seen, although those trucks may have taken the cake, and sure to have cost a significant amount of money.

Needless to say, I see why there's a debt crisis in this country.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Feb 8, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do (you) teenagers
tattoo/have colored hair?  Attention, man.  Same with the HUGE, weird colored vehicles.

(I will say, I bought my brand new SUV last year for more than I've ever spent on a car in my lifetime and immediately put the shatterball baseball decal/ball on it - hey, I want to be noticed, too.)

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 8, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

good point
wasn't looking at it from the "want attention" angle. I had more of the "Holy crap, that's a colossal waste of money" angle.

Don't know if you ever watched Ren and Stimpy, but there was a commercial for the game "Don't Whizz on the Electric Fence". At the end of the commercial, you see Satan and a kid in the depths of hell with Satan remarking "So..you whizzed on the electric fence, huh?".

Well, WU, in that same tone...So..you bought a SUV, huh?

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Feb 8, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It gets 22 mph and is smaller (RX 350)
My wife insists we need one (though she drives the cool car), so I'm a slave to the grind, you know?

Yeah, I know R/S - sort of miss it.  I like Itchy and Scratchy better, though.

The BIG SUV is for the folks with F-You $, and want everyone to know it.  NO small stereos in those vehicles...

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 8, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is someone a little defensive???
What are you hiding, WU?

I was busting your balls (presently in your wife's purse?) for the SUV comment. Nice to see that she's got you begging for mercy ;)

I can see what you're getting at with respect to the BIG SUVs and FU $, but with a lot of these people, I'm not sure that they've ever considered why they want the car and how it affects the state of the environment and/or other people around them. It seems to me that there's a lot of the "follow the herd" mentality. I guess the exploitation of these large groups of people is where marketing is quite remarkable, in both good and bad ways.

For example, assuming your wife insists on having a SUV for safety and hauling kids around, she's probably going to be safer and have more interior room for the kiddies in a volvo station wagon. SUVs have remarkably little interior room for how big they are. It's just that people have had it pounded in their heads that SUVs are safe and spacious despite plenty of data to the contrary.

Of course, the whole rationalization of which car would be best goes out the window when she says "because I want it" or "because I said so". This, I completely understand.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Feb 8, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Sew" them back on, wiz
You're not married, are you?

;)

Jeff Cox: I'm going to call you "FN".

by winningugly on Feb 9, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no, no, no
I'm not brave like larry!

by The Wizard on Feb 9, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you're gonna explode, you can use the commode
In igloos, cave dwellings or tents...

Might be my favorite show of all time.

by Sox Machine on Feb 8, 2008 4:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
The Indians avg more than the Tigers. Im not seeing that...
"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

i've been saying it since the trade
ordonez will thud back to earth and sheffield will continue to decline. cabrera makes up that and more (i believe that run total is an improvement over last season) but it's not like adding even a guy like cabrera to an already potent lineup bumps you up a half run or something.

as for the indians, sizemore moves closer to his prime, cabrera replaces barfield (huge upgrade), and hafner returns to something closer to his old self. voila.

people were laughing at my assertion after the trade that the indians were still probably better than the tigers. here's some evidence of that.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

to put the cabrera for barfield switch
into some perspective, the indians gave 434 PA to a guy who OPSed 594. cabrera was almost 200 points better and that isn't a fluke (if anything, he's more likely to be better than that next year). massive, massive upgrade.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Massive upgrade
Barfield's predicted line

.260/.304/.394

Cabrera

.264/.325/.384

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Even if that's true, T-Dogg
the comparison should be between 2007 Barfield and 2008 Cabrera (IMO).  That's where the 'massive' upgrade lies, even if he only hits that (relatively) weak OPS.

It's similar to what I (among others) have said about the Cabrera upgrade over Uribe.  Sure, ZiPS may have the two relatively close for this season, but the upgrade should be looked at as 2008 Cabrera vs 2007 Uribe* -- so even if the worst (okay, not worst but perhaps a slightly-pessimistic projection (which includes ZiPS, as he's held a .340 OBP over the past two seasons)) scenario plays out and Cabrera only has a .320 OBP, he's still a 35 point OBP upgrade over our starter of last year.

*As a quick note, I'm in no way defending the trade, just talking about the upgrade from Uribe to Cabrera.

by CWSKeith on Feb 8, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep I agree
I recanted.
"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

great point.
so it would also be true if those projections held out that barfield '08 would be a massive upgrade over barfield '07, right?
"They say that blood is thicker than water. What we have is thicker than blood."

by Toonderstrook on Feb 8, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at this again
Even though I would expect Barfield to improve, the production from the position of Barfield or Cab is likely to be much higher at 2b than last. So it certainly is fair to say there is a big upgrade there.
"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's what we were saying about the sox
you can get a huge upgrade just by replacing the horrible, well below replacement level players with average ones. people constantly focus on how the indians didn't make any moves in the offseason while the tigers went and got cabrera and renteria. thus, they're way better. well, a full season of average production just from a. cabrera is going to provide a huge bump to the cleveland offense. internal improvements can be just as good as external ones. the tigers arguably improved more in the offseason - but they needed to, considering where they were last year and the expected declines from some of their more aged players. the indians don't have the age problem.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think it's a problem of looking past the
names.  the tiger offense is far from invincible and i think it pretty likely that sheffield and ordonez will miss time this year.  the now poor tiger system isn't going to plug and chug if a kink in the armor shows.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Feb 8, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
talking about ranges, the tigers have a pretty large range of possible performance in my mind. things could go really well if they get the usual or better from their players - the lineup is stacked. but i see significant injury and performance issues that could hurt bad. inge can step in for one and provide decent production. after that.... their strategy has been somewhat high risk/high reward for the past few seasons.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah and if magglio
hadn't gone off with his ridiculous year, we'd be talking about far more honest projections.  this is taking it too far, but there are certain similarities between the mariners and the tigers in this regard.  though it's clear dombrowski understands the actual talent level of his team.  hence renteria and cabrera.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Feb 8, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mags projection this year is
.306/.376/.485

Nothing at all unrealistic about that.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nope
and it's only 168 points below his OPS last year and 31 points below his career average. right in line with what colin and i have been saying: serious regresssion and age coming into play.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
What exactly is the reason Ordonez is likely to miss time?

Forget the names. The players are BETTER.

Only a few teams have viable options if big guns go down. Are you seriously arguing the Indians are 1 of them?

Even with regression and age there is a lot of fire power in this lineup.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The fact that he's 34 and has a
history of injury, iirc
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Feb 8, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

asking for reasons
for someone's prediction? rather odd coming from you, mr. "i think the future will be fine just don't ask me exactly how it will be fine." ;)

i imagine colin thinks magglio is an injury/decline risk, due to the past and/or his age.

we're also playing the odds. who is more likely to miss significant time for their team: guys who are older/have injury histories like sheffield, ordonez, rodriguez, and guillen or guys who are younger/have little to no injury history like hafner, martinez, and sizemore? it's pretty obvious that the expected amount of missed time is higher for the tigers. the likelihood of significant time missed is also higher for the tigers.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ummm way to twist it
There is a difference between expected ratios of injury risk, and a player who had a freak accident and seems to have returned to pre injury form.

Maggs has 150+ games for 2 seasons straight and I haven't heard rumblings of nagging injuries associated with a Sheffield or a Thome. Its a fair question when he says he is "likely" to miss time.

I look forward to BP's Health Report but I suspect Maggs will not be out of his normal risk group.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hernias are now caused by freak accidents?
i take it willie ran into him again and caused an abdominal strain, huh.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

also
while maggs has played a basically full schedule of games, he has been hampered by back and knee (yes, the one that had the surgery) issues. he's sat out games and been inserted as DH as precautionary measures for these nagging ailments. is this stuff more than a "normal," younger player? who knows. but rarely does a player go from perfectly healthy to missing a series of games due to nagging injury concerns. magglio's miss a game or two here and there is the intermediate step. when does stiffness in that surgically repaired right knee cause him to miss five games and get fluid drained? when does that back tighten up too much for him to recover in two days? every year he gets older and puts more wear on his body makes it that much more likely.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

must have been thinking about my knee
maggs' left knee is the two-time surgery champ and the one he has problems with.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

As I said Ill wait for the injury health report
The hernia does shed new light, but dude he played 157 games last year, starting 156.

I could make the same case for a hundred ball players his age. There are better players to attach the risk to.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think you'd really have to follow him closely
to know the nagging issues he's had. in 2006, especially down the stretch, he had multiple things going on. you could probably argue that he was having trouble holding up because he hadn't played a full season since 2003. but he's having the usual leg and back issues that hitters of his type begin to have in the early 30s, obviously further excarberated by having two surgeries on a knee.

and i attach just about the same risk to every player who enters their mid-30s, especially when they don't have a clean history. the tigers are an old team. magglio is an older player. no matter what he's done in the past, that makes the risk for missed games higher.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Evidence?
Sorry bro. He certainly didnt use PECOTA, which does take those things into account.

Even a rough estimate of combined VORP of the predicted starting lineups has the Tigers about 70 points higher

THe Indians will not score more runs than the Tigers.

Besides this I really don't recall that many folks predicting a great Indian offense. Unlike their counterparts.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm confused
are you saying other projection systems don't take those things into account? that's silly. of course they do.

and i pointed out that people seem blinded by the tigers supposedly omnipotent offense and seemingly forget the indians so i'm not sure why you're surprised that "many folks" aren't predicting a great offense for the tribe. there's obviously also variance between pojection systems - PECOTA don't like a. cabrera that much, for one. and he is using marcel the monkey to do this so it's a blunt instrument. but i don't believe the gap between the indians and tigers is anywhere near (if it even exists at all) what people seem to pretend it is.

obviously you don't buy it. i recall what you wrote about the indians offense so i'm not surprised. that's why they play the games and don't have computers do it.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No I wasnt saying that
But no all projection systems dont take everything into account.

Let the games begin.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what do you mean by "everything"
i don't know any - certainly not MARCEL - that don't take into account players getting better as they get closer to their prime or declining as they get further from it or bouncing back some from poor seasons or regressing some after great seasons. this is standard, basic stuff. unless you're throwing numbers at a wall, that's the stuff you do.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your reading too much into it
I am merely saying that PECOTA goes further than most systems. It has nothing to do with the specifics on age of players in their decline or rise.

BP gives a pretty detailed analysis of what they do and have done to improve the system. You've read it.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Scratch my initial statement to
He didnt use PECOTA. That was my only meaning. The rest of my meaning was lost in translation.
"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i'll certainly agree PECOTA is better than MARCEL
the calculations this guy did aren't that hard. you can plug in PECOTA to the lineup analysis and see what comes out.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

PECOTA and the Indians
Sizemore looks about the same. Obviously a breakout candidate because of his age, but he does have 3+ seasons now. The truly special usually have done it by now.
.277/.367/.488

Hafner looks to bounce back, but not to his previous levels. He is not entering his prime.
.274/.383..490

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not fair that the Indians have Cabrera -
it's just not.

How is it in 2004 the Indians sign a great fielding,switch-hitting SS with all the tools - out of Venezuela ?

Ozzie? Hello?

by White Sox Randy on Feb 8, 2008 11:57 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

because they didn't sign him?
they traded for him. the mariners signed him. in 2002. ozzie was with the expos.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 12:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cabrera
.775 OPS last year in the bigs in 159 AB's.

.762 OPS in 1478 AB's in minors.

I don't know what to make of that. His best minor league numbers came from AA Cleveland (86 games, 368 AB's).

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Feb 8, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

forget the low minors
not a very good predictor of major league performance. and he's 22 next year.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with Larry on this one
The M's pushed him way too hard, Jumping hims from A ball to AAA in his age 20 season, when I suppose they soured on him. How else do you trade him for Eduardo Perez?

The Indians took a much more cautious approach, after he got smacked down by the IL, sending him back to AA, where he was putting up a .385 OBP season as a 21 year old SS. He'd be our number 1 prospect by a mile with numbers like that.

He probably won't out-rate his ML stats from last year in '08, but he looks like he could be an 800+ OPS middle infielder for years to come.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Feb 8, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree to a certain extent
Although I agree his future is a .800 OPS SS, I'm tending to agree with PECOTA that for next year he does sig. worse and is closer to a .700 OPS than .800 OPS. His minor league numbers do not indicate that he's ready to go .800 OPS in MLB next year. And next year was what the discussion was about.

Last year Cleveland 2b posted a .289/.350/.639 OPS. PECOTA has cabrera at .709 OPS next year. I think he'll do a little better than that, maybe .725. So that's an 85 point improvement. Pretty big, but not the 200 point difference that was suggested.

by bhoov on Feb 8, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right......
Not that it would've made a difference but how is it that a commodity this important has eluded the Sox for years and yet other teams just seem to pull them out regularly ?

by White Sox Randy on Feb 8, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope these two moves
are evidence that the Orioles are working their way toward competent management.  Obviously MacPhail was able to flip Angelos on this particular manuever.  We shall see.  It's finally starting to look up for them, anyway.

Since I'm on the subject of Baltimore, I figured I'd let you guys know I'm midway through season 3.  Season 2 was incredibly good despite the slow start, probably better than Season 1.  I'm liking the way 3 is going so far, but we'll see.  It's very much the coda to Season 1, that's for sure.  

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Feb 8, 2008 2:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

er. I'm talking about The Wire
if that wasn't obvious
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Feb 8, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

personally
i prefer it when other teams have incompetent management.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well it doesn't look like we can
ask that of Boston or New York, so they might as well have as many thorns in their side as possible.  they don't have to get better than competent.  
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Feb 8, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why the hell...
Is everyone on Cleveland's nuts? What is so great about their offense? I would pick our position players over everyone on their team except Hafner, Martinez, and Sizemore. Their bullpen is going to suck... I love how everyone thinks every move these guys make is gold... their bull pen moves this offseason were the most suspect of all... considering their bullpen sucks as it is.
Toonderstrook's myspace page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67492521

by Soulja Boy on Feb 8, 2008 2:24 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

you're right
i'd completely forgotten how the cleveland bullpen put up an absolutley god awful 3.73 ERA last year. they certainly did suck.

by larry on Feb 8, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Soulja Boy....Do me a favor
Get off my side.
"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Feb 8, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

ROFL!
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Feb 8, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tdogg... Do me a favor
don't feed 'em.  They just come back for more.
Next time, Bhoov, do some research.

by Chiburb on Feb 8, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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Beginning Wednesday, street light banners commemorating a series of special events in Chicago are going on the auction block for charity.

Some of the banners were shown off Tuesday, including those featuring Pres. Barack Obama both before and after his election.

A White Sox World Series Championship banner, signed by pitcher Mark Buehrle, is also being sold, as is a Blackhawks playoff banner signed by Denis Savard and Stan Mikita.

The bidding starts at 12 p.m. Wednesday at Daley Center. Money raised goes to help the Chicago Anti-hunger Federation and the Greater Chicago Food Depository.
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