Is Joe Crede painting the Sox into a corner?

by The Cheat on Mar 10, 2008 8:32 PM CDT in News Comment 145 comments

With another 0-3 day in Arizona Monday, Joe Crede lowered his spring training batting average to .091. The poor play at the plate combined with his 4 errors (all throwing, I believe) have some wondering if he is as healthy as he claims.

From what I saw on the tube this weekend, Crede appears healthy, if just a little rusty. His swing mechanics look fine; the hands are high, there's no wasted motion. But it's not showing up in the results. He had a particularly terrible game against the Giants Saturday, which included an 0-3 on a number of hittable pitches and at least one 'Crede would have gotten it' moment. He couldn't have laid an egg against a more inopportune opponent.

And worst of all, we're not the only people to notice Crede's poor play. Jon Heyman quotes an unimpressed NL scout.

"He has some holes in his swing, and he doesn't even look like an average third baseman right now," the scout said.

We posted about Williams posturing on the Crede situation yesterday. While I still think Crede gets traded, I'm beginning to see a scenario where the Sox get stuck with Crede.

For his part, Josh Fields has appeared just as unspectacular as Crede this spring, going 2-17 at the plate with 5 strikeouts and no extra-base hits.

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Joe does have some big time cold streaks

Crede's career has been full of times where he just isn't hitting a lick (lot's of pop ups on very hittable pitches if I recall correctly).

Given his outstanding 2005 postseason I don't think he's trying to turn the bat handle into sawdust, he just takes a while, sometimes a long while, to find a groove.

Unfortunately, now is not a good time - let's just hope he gets it before the July trading deadline (at worst).

Canada's finest

by MarkD on Mar 10, 2008 9:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Groove =

2006. And that's it. Other than that he has never been an above average at the plate.

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really think

That Fields (and Quentin) will start the season in AAA. I don't think Williams expected that (at least for Fields), but he's obviously been laying the rhetorical groundwork for that contingency for a while. I don't why, but I've had a feeling that KW wanted a decent return on Crede (i.e. more than an A ball reliever) and wouldn't move him without that. Unless Crede heats up I think he's the starting 3B on the Sox.

It's sort of bad news for Fields, because if Crede does heat up during the season it will be much more difficult for KW to pull the trigger and trade him (assuming the Sox drop 15 games out almost immediately). And of course, if Crede doesn't heat up there won't be a market and the Sox have to keep playing him until he does heat up...

Glad I'm not the GM.

by hitlesswonder on Mar 10, 2008 9:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Lets look at this offseason as it looks so far.

We tell everyone that we are trading Crede, then cant so we have to send our 3rd baseman down to AAA. Check.
We resign snacks and cakes, then trade our number one trading chip Garland for OC to play SS. Then telegraph we need to move S&C, failing to do so.
We trade Carter for Quentin, not a player like carlos, but Carlos himself. You know the guy competing with Anderson for 4th OF. Oh why are they competing for the 4th OF, well thats because the bantam speedster who cant get on base was annointed by OG as our starter. The same manager who preached OBP this offseason.

Last year we burned Cunningham for Richar, who is another kid that will wind up in the minors.

So basically all the kids are getting sent down, except for the kid who can run fast. Well this makes perfect sense. Its the same team + swisher. Nice job guys. Way to give OG more toys to play with Kenny ( owens).

by southsideirish71 on Mar 10, 2008 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So...

I take it the glass is half-empty?

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 10, 2008 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Fields is half empty as well

"Regardless of where I go, what happens, I have to get myself prepared to play because you have to produce in Chicago," Fields said Monday. "If I happen to go to [Triple-A] Charlotte, I want to produce there too. Right now I'm just trying to get myself ready."

by southsideirish71 on Mar 10, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it could be worse.

Yeah, it stinks not being able to fully utilize Quentin or Fields, but at lest we still have those guys locked up. There could be worse things than having Crede for one more year. Also, guys like Bourgeois and Eldred seem like capable bench guys who could fill in when someone goes on the DL.

There's still a small chance that BA gets a shot at starting CF a couple of times and actually PERFORMS. Wouldn't that be nice? A real CF? It's still possible that Quentin and Anderson pass Owens on the depth chart by the end of the season.

If you have guys like Quentin, Fields, and Ramirez playing AAA this year, maybe the Sox have some hope for the future.

www.fratdaddy.blogspot.com

by Raf on Mar 10, 2008 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget

We made that move for OC to improve our at bats, then we move the bat we wanted out of the lineup 49.5 feet over to the side. That will help any (if) youngs bats get at bats.

You know up until last Thur I was feeling somewhat optimistic - its quickly diminished. I see the same decisions being played over. (I really hope there actually will be some logic to this, but each day I think less and less so)

Where's Andy - we need another 3rd baseman, or is he an outfielder, no wait he played SS in the minors... or was that Mac who was the utility infielder... or was he a CF... Hey, at least 'dis kid is fast

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 10, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to see Tdogg reply to this brilliant post

by SSH2005 on Mar 10, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

right because "brilliance" is taking

the negative and eschewing context.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 10, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Try to refute any of his points...

I will wait for your response.

by SSH2005 on Mar 10, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Half the things he talked about

Haven't even happened yet! How about being patient and taking the aggregate into consideration before stopping off at South Side Torch and Pitchfork Depot?

But if I can track down a response I made to Pete a thread or two back, I'll post it here so I can "refute" this.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 10, 2008 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just can't see the forest for the trees then.

A.) Ozzie loves Owens.
B.) Ozzie loves Uribe.
C.) Neither Owens nor Uribe will be starting.

A plus B does not equal C.

by SSH2005 on Mar 10, 2008 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're in dire need of metaphor help

I'm the one talking about "aggregate," you're the one who is obsessing over the comments made by an image and ticket needy organization's representative. If Quentin proves to be a waste and Carter pans out, then we can start talking about this as a forest. Opportunity cost can be discussed now, of course, but its going to require a lot more nuance and subtlety than I've seen you manage lately. And, more to the point, evidence should also likely come with it.

btw, I dont know how to c/p with an iPhone and my laptops dead, so I'll just tell you that comment I made is in the Uribe Starting 2B post.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love to see Fields, Quentin and Richar start

The only way this team can pull off a big surprise is if some players really exceed expectations. With the vets you pretty much know what you're going to get, but the young guys are much more likely to surprise you.

Instead, we're now seeing rumblings that Fields, Quentin and Richar might all start the season in AAA.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 11, 2008 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its brilliant beause you agree with it?

I can make a bunch of predictions also but that doesnt mean that its true. The one thing that continues to crack me up is this continued shouting that you know what the Sox will do.

The reality is many have been wrong way more often than right. Intelligent analysis involves seeing some actual things happening and then commenting. Intelligent analysis is taking real historical numbers, plugging them in- getting results and commenting on them.

Saying the same opinion based thing over and over again doesnt really mean a lot. (Example Swisher's place in the lineup. There is a math based argument with results and then there is your own Phil Rogers style math. Hmmmmm.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Mar 11, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So Owens getting more AB's than Swisher...

is a good thing?

by SSH2005 on Mar 11, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats not what I said

But there is a such thing as significance. There is no sense of balance with you. Not a whole lot of objectivity. Did you play with the lineups? Its not as simple as he gets more abs than him.

Not to mention you still dont even know how many abs Owens will get. Unlike Swisher who has no job security issues.

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Mar 11, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

even if we get into the realm of predictions

owens isn't going to get more ABs than swisher. one isn't going to play everyday. the other will.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You never know with Ozzie...

he seems to like fast, crappy players.

by SSH2005 on Mar 11, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i never know

but you apparently do.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

toby hall back, as well

he hit the ball. and threw it all the way to second base, too!

by larry on Mar 10, 2008 9:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I know it's just the backup C

But I'm surprised (and not in a good way) that the Sox have let this situation bleed over into 2008. I never understood why Hall didn't have surgery after the Sox season was shot and/or he showed that he really couldn't play last season.

I don't know -- maybe surgery last June would have essentially put him out for 2008. But if Sox want to gamble on Hall being healthy, shouldn't they have at least brought in a passable AAAA C? Last year they had Wiki Gonzalez. Say what you will, but I rather see him as option 1B than Lucy...

by hitlesswonder on Mar 10, 2008 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

According to Larry...

the Sox couldn't force Hall to have surgery and they damn sure aren't going to eat his salary.

by SSH2005 on Mar 10, 2008 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right...I get that...

I just see no replacement level catcher in the organization if Hall sucks again. And I wish they would have gotten one.

by hitlesswonder on Mar 10, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True, it's pretty sad that we don't have one...

but catcher could be the toughest position to develop. The sad thing is that would could use a catcher, center fielder, and second baseman. Look at who was drafted after we took Donny Lucy at #59 overall in 2004 and try not to puke...

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/2004/Round-2-1.shtml

by SSH2005 on Mar 10, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ray liotta?

hahahaha, that makes me puke too!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 11, 2008 7:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pence, Suzuki, Pedroia...

all would be really nice right now.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 11, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

poreda has good outing

Aaron Poreda, the Sox's first pick in the 2007 draft, struck out three in two innings and had his fastball clocked at 96 mph. Guillen said Poreda would pitch in an exhibition game later this month.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/mondays-recap-1.html

by larry on Mar 10, 2008 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

So Larry...

who's taking the second leg tomorrow? You were, after all, correct on the first leg so that means you're bound to be right tomorrow as well.

Also -- when was the last time the FA Cup was so crazy? Or should I not be surprised that none of the 'Big 4' are left?

by CWSKeith on Mar 10, 2008 9:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

you should be surprised

rather unusual; it's unusual for just one to be in the semis, let alone none. been about a decade since a recognized top club wasn't involved at this stage. and it will be quite interesting to see if the first non-top flight team since 1980 wins it. such a team is guaranteed a place in the final and i wouldn't be surprised at all if portsmouth went out to west brom (and since history is given a prominent place in the competition, it's interesting to note west brom are the only team to ever win the fa cup and achieve promotion in the same season - i'm sure they like that).

this is a tough match to call. i think inter will win but liverpool will squeak through, possibly on just away goals. the clean sheet at anfield was critical.

by larry on Mar 10, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

at least masset won't be in the rotation ...

[SM]:

With decisions to come on where John Danks and Gavin Floyd fall in the rotation -- which in turn will affect the team's Opening Day starter -- the White Sox front five on the mound still has not been completely set.

But there's one pitching decision that appears to be all but written in permanent marker: Nick Masset's move to the bullpen for Tuesday's contest in Surprise, Ariz., seems to indicate almost no chance for either of the two young starters being knocked from the rotation.

by The Wizard on Mar 10, 2008 9:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

cuts coming

[MG]:

Manager Ozzie Guillen was irate Monday after the White Sox blew a five-run lead in the top of the ninth inning before pulling out a 9-8 win over Seattle.

Most of Guillen's anger was pointed at reliever Oneli Perez, who surrendered five runs on five hits and a walk in two-thirds of an inning. Perez's ERA swelled from 21.60 to 29.45 after Monday's debacle.

The timing can't be any worse, as the Sox will make their first round of cuts before Wednesday's game. The Sox will likely make 10 cuts and trim their spring training roster to 40.

by The Wizard on Mar 10, 2008 10:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why is our manager getting pissed off...

that a sucky reliever who won't even be on our opening day roster blew a 5 run lead in a Spring Training game?

Meanwhile, Uribe can get fatter and put up a worse OPS year after year and he is Ozzie's front-runner for the 2B job. Yep, makes sense to me!

by SSH2005 on Mar 10, 2008 11:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't know

maybe, just maybe, because ozzie recalls last season when the bullpen sucked and it would have been nice if one of the, like, fifteen relievers in the organization who were given a chance would have been okay? or don't you like depth.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oneli, like everyone else,

is specifically working on a new pitch.

Needs a lot of work.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

wiz and SC

I'm no swing mechanic junky, but I liked what I saw in another youtube video that came up when I searched "smoak". It was 6 sec long, but gave a nice look at his swing. It looks compact and quick. I thought he'd be bigger looking, but in the link SC gave showed him trotting around the bases: he's got a wide frame. I'd like to see more, ideally full at bats, but he seems to know what he's looking for, definitely isn't afraid, and swings with authority.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 12:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks!

in case anyone wants the links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSawGSqkTp8 (3:47)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0m3Qk-CMzw (0:56)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzH1pvmqKG8 (0:06)

by The Wizard on Mar 11, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huge mistake to keep Crede !

If the Sox keep Crede and send Fields down, not only will it mess up Fields but also the White Sox season.

A big reason the Sox stunk last year was Crede's crappy season. Right now, he looks the same or worse than last year. Either he's very rusty or still unhealthy. Either way, he likely will play poorly and hurt the Sox season and then Kenny will end up dumping him for whatever it is that he can get now - maybe less.

Get it over with and dump him and get Fields squared away so that he can have a big season. This issue has the potential to really mess up the Sox this year and for what ?

It's not worth it. Dump him and move on.

by White Sox Randy on Mar 11, 2008 9:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Encouraging....

Carlos Quentin played in a "B" game after taking almost a week off due to soreness in his surgically repaired left shoulder.

Quentin finished 2-for-5, and managed to play for ten innings in the loss to the Rockies. He should be in the regular lineup on Tuesday. "Am I there yet?" Quentin asked. "No, I'm not there as far as getting my timing down. But strength-wise, my shoulder feels even better."

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

so really

whats it going to take to get his shoulder healed? is it ever going to heal if he keeps playing with it?

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 11, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

his shoulder is healed

it's soreness, which is quite normal for someone coming off a surgery and in the midst of strengthening muscles and whatnot that atrophied a bit. he'll be fine eventually. it's just a matter of how long it takes to get him back to 100% strength and then back to baseball sharpness.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quentin

had the surgery to repair his rotator cuff & labrum in October. The expected timeline for a recovery was six months. He's at about 5 right now. So, in my non-professional opinion, he's probably still working through some of the flexibility and strength issues that will only improve by playing and training.

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks guys

i remember him having surgery on his non-throwing shoulder in OCT but other than that, im clueless about how surgeries and recoveries go. i stayed relatively healthy through my NCAA career!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 11, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

statistically proven: 05 sox had 3rd most heart

all-time. nothing left to quantify now at BP.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 9:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

did they adjust for swagger?

by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 11, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Now that was funny as hell

Very well done. I knew more boys had heart!

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Mar 11, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bruce LevineLine of ESPN 1000...

says that "the Dodgers have mild interest in Joe Crede."

by SSH2005 on Mar 11, 2008 9:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Still Early

We don't need to trade Crede tomorrow...there is still 2 weeks left in ST. If we are going to panic, lets at least hold off until next week.

Ozzie: "He got a [migraine] headache. I believe him because he's a real religious guy. Someone else tells me they have a migraine, I know they are hung over."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 11, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mancrush.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 11, 2008 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

supposed to be a reply to colintj

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 11, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did anyone happen to hear Owens on WSCR

last night around 8 p.m.? Say what we want about his OBP and his power, but he seems to be one bright, personable individual who has his priorities in order. He spent much of the interview discussing a mission he went on in the off-season to South Africa. Among other things, he introduced baseball to underprivileged kids who, while familiar with cricket, knew nothing of baseball. He also talked about shaving his head a few days ago for a charity. It wasn't the normal Score interview. Granted, he still needs to get on base a lot more and hit the ball out of the infield, but rooting for him to succeed won't be difficult.

by palehose67 on Mar 11, 2008 10:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ive heard him in the past

He has always come across as a classy indiviual. I wish he was as good a baseball player. No cocky strutting to the plate for him!

"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America. There is the United States of America."

by Tdogg on Mar 11, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice guys finish last!

Few people know I am fueled creatively by my massive hatred of immigrants.

by winningugly on Mar 11, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He does sound like a nice guy...

It's too bad he sucks as a player.

by SSH2005 on Mar 11, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like the idea, it's the specifics that get me

Sounds like he's a good person that I can root for to be a 4th outfielder (or 27th man as you've said iirc).

Now, not to rain on your parade, but to look at the humanitarian mission in a different (and off-topic) light. The whole going on a mission to promote baseball in other countries gives me mixed feelings. It's great that kids get a chance to be special for a day (at least) by meeting major leaguers, having someone take the time to play with them, and learn a new game, but I fear that these "missions" also have the purpose of turning these kids into lifetime consumers of the mlb "product". Shudder. The last thing a bunch of poor, underprivileged kids need is to have someone making them want to buy jerseys, baseball cards, etc. To give some perspective, there are a lot of people in Oaktown that need to have flashy things (rims, baseball jerseys, shoes), but have to steal or kill each other to get them, as evidenced by last summer's crime wave. This disturbs me. For people without sufficient disposable income, ie those in S. Africa, might it be better that they don't know what they're missing?

Sorry to get too off-topic / philosophical, if I have done so.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Mar 11, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're not off topic at all.

While Owens didn't discuss the "mission" in much detail, there certainly seemed to be some religious aspect to it too. I think he spoke of the Bible. He also joked that the loss of his hair was going to make him 1/100 of a second faster. Sure, nice guys might finish last, but on the South Side they apparently bat first.

by palehose67 on Mar 11, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good line, PH

If you view the "mission" as "product promotion" then exporting baseball, religion, or politics is equally noxious in that light. I don't mind expanding the experiences of the developing world, either - you hold out certain possibilities to those who ave never seen then, sometimes it motivates them.

Or not. Either way, it's OK by me.

Few people know I am fueled creatively by my massive hatred of immigrants.

by winningugly on Mar 11, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I cannot GD type, sorry

Few people know I am fueled creatively by my massive hatred of immigrants.

by winningugly on Mar 11, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come to think

of it, he could have been talking about the Grinder Bible (the only one and true Bible). "And God said unto Ozzie, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the man who batteth second cannot hit, because I sayeth unto you, he can handle the bat."

by palehose67 on Mar 11, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And he bunted the runner over...

and it was good.

Getteth them on, getteth them over, getteth them in... amen

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Mar 11, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

Verily, thou speakest the Truth! And on the 6th Day, the Lord created the Grinder.

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 11, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fall of the Grinder

Then the Oz said, "What is this you have done?"
The grinder said, "The game deceived me."

So the Oz said to the grinder, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the outfielders
and all the infielders!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

And I will put enmity
between you and the strike zone,
and between your fielding and hitting

To the grinder he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in running;
with pain you will run.
Your desire will be for your extra bases,
and the throw out will rule over you."

By the sweat of your brow
you will only see bench
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 11, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Truly, A Seasone of Biblical Proportion

Better to reign in the Central than serve in heaven

"We're actually doing some different things at the top of the lineup, but our key is Jerry Owens being our center fielder and our leadoff guy" - JD

by ChicagoPete on Mar 11, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I concur

the 'nice guys bat first' line is sweet.

Hopefully OC, Quentin, or Swisher are nice guys as well so one of the three can bat first - ;)

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Mar 11, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But

OCs bat handling skills are needed in the 2 spot.

How do you fuck a nut?!

by omnipotent grab on Mar 11, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You choose to look at it...

in a negative light. I chose too look at it in a positive light. The kids get a temporary escape from their mundane, poor lives. Also, maybe, just maybe, one of the kids learns to play ball well, leaves, and makes it to the big leagues somewhere. If he does, he can bring money back to his poor village and family.

I think there are worse things we can do than show the third world that the U.S. is a respectable, rich, country built on democratic principles.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 11, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

As a reply to Shoeless and WU

I didn't want to come off saying that the mission was all bad, which is why I pointed out some of the good things that can come from such a mission, just that there are also some drawbacks to this kind of work. I rarely hear of these drawbacks to missions and thought I would throw it out there. Full disclosure - I started reading supercrunchers this morning on the train and so it put me in the perspective of evaluating consumer tendencies.

I'll leave it at that because I'm too busy today to really delve into anything too deeply. Thanks for offering your perspectives.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Mar 11, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

FYI - Tickets being mailed this week

Just spoke with the Sox and Season Tickets should be received this week.

Ozzie: "He got a [migraine] headache. I believe him because he's a real religious guy. Someone else tells me they have a migraine, I know they are hung over."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 11, 2008 10:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

baseball analysts' al central preview

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2008/03/two_on_two_2008_1.php

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow - we suck

Wheel-spinning, indeed.

Few people know I am fueled creatively by my massive hatred of immigrants.

by winningugly on Mar 11, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Question

I had an e-mail exchange with a SunTimes sports writer. Are there any issues with posting the exchange on here? It is quite entertaining.

Larry?

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

emails?

they're yours. post away. we all love entertainment.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Larry

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

please do so

i need a good laugh

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 11, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good Stuff

-----Original Message-----
From: BoKnows
Sent: Tue 3/11/2008 10:02 AM
To: Certain SunTimes Columnist
Subject: Crede vs. Fields

The following paragraph is seriously flawed.

Williams knows he has a hot commodity in Crede, who continues to show scouts his surgically repaired back is not a major stumbling block. Still, the offers haven't been strong enough to swing a deal. A good thing, too, because the Sox are better with Crede in the lineup. If he must stay there all season and walk as a free agent next winter, so be it."

Addressing the first part of that paragraph - Does the .091 ST average and the 4 throwing errors that Crede had yesterday confirm that?

The second part -

Fields had 12 winshares in 100 games last year. .12/game
In 2006, Crede's best statistical year, he had 20 winshares in 150 games. .13/game

It is pretty clear to me that the players are dead even (statistically) at this point in their careers. Once you take Crede's back problems, age, and other career numbers into consideration, it is clear that Fields has the potential to be a much more valuable player.

Can you please back up your statement with some analysis next time instead of just being a White Sox homer?

His response:

Your e-mail made me laugh. "White Sox homer." Kenny Williams would beg to differ.

The rest is just gibberish. You are a moron if you are basing anything on Crede's spring numbers. C'mon, really? The guy hasn't played since June. There is an adjustment period that will take more than eight Cactus League games. And you are projecting Fields to be statistically even with Crede? Based on what? His terrible defense or his 393 major-league at-bats and .239 career batting average compared to Crede' 2,433 at-bats and .259 batting average? If the Sox were sold on Fields, they wouldn't have made such a strong push to get Miguel Cabrera.

You might be impressed with your analysis, but I'm not. Don't waste anymore of my time.

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 11:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAH.

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 11, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, Chris De Luca sure is...

an angry, little man.

by SSH2005 on Mar 11, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He called a reader

a moron? Now that's class. Yes, why would a reporter want to be bothered by facts?

by palehose67 on Mar 11, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why is he so impressed with BAVG?

It was Fields' rookie season, point 1, and Fields slugs a whole heckuva lot more than Crede.

Just ask certain stat gurus which they would rather have at the plate, Fields... or Crede.

I can live with Fields' glove. It's not Miguel Cabrera or Ryan Braun bad.

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 11, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus...

since the Fields in LF experiment is over...

Fields + Prospects/Players gained from Crede trade >>>> Joe Crede

"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."

by Shoeless In SC on Mar 11, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cowley? Or Jaaaaaaaaaaay?

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chris De Luca.

Here's his email address:

cdeluca@suntimes.com

by SSH2005 on Mar 11, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And here I thought it was

marriotti-minime@suntimes.com

by southsideirish71 on Mar 11, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry thats Couch's email

by southsideirish71 on Mar 11, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's great

He was really condescending for someone who only used BA to back up his point.

MrROFL.com - now with real content!

by shaftr on Mar 11, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The tone is hard to believe.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

What a douche!

Come to think of it, I'll call him Chris Lo Douche-a from now on.

Thanks for the entertainment!

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

by rhythm on Mar 11, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking as sports journalist...

I'd be toast with the higher ups if I ever, ever wrote a response to a reader in such a way.

What an jerk. But I guess it shows where the Sun-Times' priorities are.

by HulkSmash on Mar 11, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's why I wrote the editor

Hopefully some comeuppance is in order.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think

it's been determined yet that the columnist is De Luca?

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

link

De Luca it is!!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 11, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not say who it is?

Then we can all waste his precious time. I, for one, am on Spring Break and have nothing better to do with my time!

Just what we need for a little site unity... a letter writing campaign!!!

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Mar 11, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha oops!

ok so the veil has been lifted!

I still think we should flood his inbox hehe

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Mar 11, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I emailed the sports editor asking

what his qualifications were. I also asked if he'd tell me how guys like de luca and marriotti get hired in the first place, promising anonymity. If he gives me anything postable, I'll be sure to tell you guys.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure

it was your place to write the editor.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to oversimplify matters

Say you're at a restaurant and you order a grilled cheese sandwich and you get a patty melt. You call the waitress over and she ridicules you because there's clearly no way SHE screwed up the order, naturally you're going to ask to speak to her manager.

In essence, the editor is his manager.

I'll hang up and listen to your answer.

by Hazymania on Mar 11, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that and because I expect a much more intelligent

discussion with the editor than with De Luca. One is obviously an idiot, the other may not be.

I did worry about whether or not this came off as tattling, but I didn't word it in terms of being offended, but rather that De Luca was symptomatic of an issue with the ST's sports editorials and why I didn't buy their products.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why so?

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It wasn't an

exchange with you. If BoKnows feels it appropriate, he can follow up.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so what

if someone is dumb enough to put what he did in an email, which everyone knows can be posted/forwarded/whatevered anywhere, he deserves whatever ramifications result. including other people reading the less than smart stuff he wrote and contacting his superiors.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To each his own.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would guess

that Bo is a big boy. He can fight his own battles. Doesn't seem to need a big brother.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't that's the role I was occupying

It's definitely on my own behalf that I wrote. I understand where you're coming from though.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

who's fighting any battles for anyone?

this guy - who is paid to write about sports - wrote an email that betrays his serious lack of credentials for such a position. i think anyone who is interested in having decent coverage of sports in this town should know about it and, if it tickles their fancy, write in to his superiors to let them know that such a lack of knowledge is unbecoming of someone in that position.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A hypothetical, Larry.

Maybe BoKnows made up that exchange, just for chuckles.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and that would be relevant how?

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You want to

accuse the columnist of something that didn't happen?

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but why does it matter?

if that's the case, colin will look like a dumbass who got duped by a message board post. who cares. i'm sure colin doesn't. i'm not sure why you would, either.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I HAVE NO PROBLEM

with BoKnows emailing the editor. Others who are certainly on the periphery, IMO not so good.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks, we've got that

Bo posted it. he obviously doesn't care. worry a little less about what other people are doing. especially when it's about as irrelevant to you as this is.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not irrelevant enough

for you to not respond, though.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

its not like he gave me a harsh

reprimand, bally's just saying what he thinks and he certainly isnt being offensive. whether we think he justified it sufficiently is obviously up to the rest of us to decide. i don't think telling him what to "worry" about (if in fact you could call it that) was really neccessary, nor was the general tone.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's telling me

by extension, what i should and should not do with information i read on this board. if Bo is a big enough boy to fight his own fights, so is de luca.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not demanding it, just suggesting it

his tone has been approachable and suggestive and in the spirit of good dialogue. bally has neither the power nor, based on my reading of it, the desire to stop anyone beyond laying out what he thinks is true. i don't see what is so rebuke-worthy in that.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball is irrelevant, Larry.

Human beings, decency, fairness is relevant.

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 11, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm finding it hard to follow

what is inhuman, indecent, or unfair.

by larry on Mar 11, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gheezz...

The idea of e-mailing the editor never once crossed my mind.

I initiated the e-mail conversation by critiquing, in a not so kind tone, De Luca's argument. I wanted a response. He gave me one and was clearly put-off. He was condescending and just plain wrong in his analysis.

However, he's entitled to be a crappy sportswriter. As Bobby Brown says, "That's his prerogative."

" You might be impressed with your analysis, but I'm not. Don't waste anymore of my time."

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's an honor so often been bestowed upon me

that I'm thinking about making up business cards with "certified asshole" written in bold across the top. Maybe some testimonals on the back...

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Haha....I'm not that big of a douche

That's 100% accurate....I just removed my e-mail address.

" You might be impressed with your analysis, but I'm not. Don't waste anymore of my time."

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

a possibility, but a slim one

and a verifiable one, as well. All it would take is a forward. It sounds like you're worried about De Luca's job or something, though, and I really doubt anything like that will happen. I've had similar exchanges with another sports pundit; it would appear that this kind of thing isn't actually rare. Deadspin has documented numerous accounts of assholery on behalf of sport columnists and tv personalities and they all still have jobs.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And who cares about fighting battles...

an injustice anywhere is an injustice everywhere.

Sure, that's a bit dramatic for this particular conversation. The point is that De Luca 1. is a moron and 2. is completely unprofessional 3. deserves whatever he gets for sending a reader in nastygram in response to his obvious lack of knowledge.

by HulkSmash on Mar 11, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I figured that Bo sharing it

Was a tacit "whatever you want to do with it is cool" but re-reading his hesitance about sharing makes me think I should have asked first.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was 99.9% sure that

posting an e-mail on a message board is totally legal. I just wanted to confirmation of my thoughts from the resident lawyer on the board.

Do whatever you want with it. Sportswriters are allowed to write garbage and get away with it all of the time. That's why there are sites (firejaymariotti.com) that attempt to make writers accountable.

" You might be impressed with your analysis, but I'm not. Don't waste anymore of my time."

by BoKnows on Mar 11, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The presumed appeal of ignorance

and douchebaggery is pretty galling and the guy in charge of their existence should know that most people are annoyed, not enlightened, by this. Anyway, I'd post my email if I could figure out copy and pasting on this thing, but the guy hasn't replied yet anywa and probably won't.

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't worry about it...

...I am sure this Sports Editor gets about 500 emails daily from readers about that Blowhard Marrioti.

Probably won't even get a response.

Ozzie: "He got a [migraine] headache. I believe him because he's a real religious guy. Someone else tells me they have a migraine, I know they are hung over."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 11, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

De Luca

is now the newest villain of SSS!

12/12/07- We'll miss you Andy Gonzalez

by The Deacon on Mar 11, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is wanting Miguel Cabrera on your team

really an indictment against Josh Fields? I mean I like John Danks but I would replace him with Johan Santana if that was any way possible

by 3E8 on Mar 11, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

it is if you are

chris de luca, famed sabermetrician, humanist and breakfast cereal spokesman!

dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.

by colintj on Mar 11, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Batting Average

Insert angry stat based retort regarding horribly flawed nature of BA as a useful stat.

I can't remember the guy who first threw BA into a boxscore ( err... 1890's or something ) but even he said something like 'This isn't great, but its okay for now'.

That was over 100 years ago. Please? Find a real stat.

by coffeepac on Mar 11, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs