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Toby Hall about to find a red card taped to his locker?

Backup catcher Toby Hall was summoned by general manager Ken Williams into manager Ozzie Guillen's office shortly after the meeting. Hall's throwing has been a question during the latter part of spring training, but he joined his teammates in the workout after meeting with Williams.

As we get down to crunch time, I've been hoping the Sox could find a way to kill two non-major-leaguer birds with one stone, and turn Nick Masset into a backup catcher via trade. Not that I think that's probable, but a guy can dream, can't he?

[Update]: Gonzo notes that Hall was summoned for a second 45-minute meeting later. There's obviously something afoot. What it is, who knows?

Link 4 months ago Thecheatsmoking_tiny The Cheat Comment 90 comments 0 recs |

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maybe they're asking

whether he'd accept assignment to AAA, if need be. hell, the sox paid ben davis to catch down there.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 1:39 PM CDT   0 recs

probably nothing

remember last week, when we all got excited? a week later, and uribe is still on the team.

I cannot bear that kind of pain again this week. Please, Cheat, do not do that to me.

by hugh on Mar 25, 2008 1:50 PM CDT   0 recs

I would feel a lot better

if we had a suitable backup as competent as say a Chris Stewart laying around.

Now that would be a great trade. Nick Masset for Chris Stewart. I just checked his spring stats. He got 5 at-bats because he's now behind Salty and Laird in Texas Probably Teagarden and Ramirez as well.

That wouldn't be so bad. My junk for your junk.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 1:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We'd have to throw in a BPPTBNL

Batting Practice Pitcher to be Named Later...

So, I guess we could get rid of Masset that way

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 2:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Who throws BP

for the Sox? (besides the obvious MacDougal joke).

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 25, 2008 2:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Cave, Gellinger...

is Hickey still around?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 2:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Is Cave still hurt?

Had a retina problem during F. Camp in January and didn't attend.

Hey man, this game is a bunch of frontrunners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.''

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 2:41 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He was on the last broadcast

Or at least Hawk and DJ talked about him for 10 minutes... I wasn't paying attention. I think he's in camp, and is fine.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 2:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ozzie is probably in love with Paul Phillips...

and he will be our backup catcher on opening day.

By the way, it looks like Mark Gonzales removed his second blog entry...

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/hall-update.html

by SSH2005 on Mar 25, 2008 2:04 PM CDT   0 recs

that also pisses me off

who is telling gonzo to remove blog entries?

just more proof of how much gonzo and merkin really do just work for the white sox PR department.

is someone on the sox side calling the trib "remove that post"? or is it more of not biting the dog that feeds them?

by hugh on Mar 25, 2008 2:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually

I bet we see it back up before too long, with additional info...

I've seen a couple of these things come down in the past, and they've both come back with the story more fleshed out.

He must take it off-line to edit the entries.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 2:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed, the same thing happened with the Uribe waived blog posts...

By the way, the auto-refresh of new posts is an awesome new feature.

by SSH2005 on Mar 25, 2008 2:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

They might be trying

to get him to agree to a stint on the DL. I doubt he is getting released or he already would be.

I like the auto-refresh too!

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 25, 2008 2:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm actually a big fan of both

biting dogs and being fed by them.

Just for the record.

Why don't you crack an egg of knowledge all over me, buddy.

by MarketMaker on Mar 25, 2008 3:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

NO CUTS TODAY!

Hall says he's healthy, Sox won't make cuts Tuesday

By Mark Gonzales, 1:44 p.m.

TUCSON, Ariz. -- Backup catcher Toby Hall reassured White Sox staff members Tuesday that his right shoulder is fine.

Hall said he understood why the team would ask about his health after suffering a separation one year ago but stressed that he's fine.

The Sox, through a team publicist, announced they will not make any roster moves Tuesday.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/hall-update.html

by The Wizard on Mar 25, 2008 2:25 PM CDT   0 recs

Must be giving Hall a couple more days

to prove himself.

I hope to god they are not taking a players word on whether he is healthy or not. That is what trainers, coaches, scouts should be able to see. Players input should only be a small part of it in these types of situations.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 25, 2008 2:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why not?

Remember when they left it up to Paul Konerko as to whether they could contend or not?

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Mar 25, 2008 2:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

HAHA! Exactly what I thought of too!

"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca

by BoKnows on Mar 25, 2008 2:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Player braintrust.

Konerko
Dye
Thome
Cabrera
MB
Jesse Owens

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 25, 2008 2:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Screw his shoulder

Ask him to keep away from the feed bag for a few days. That will probably help his game play more than anything to do with his shoulder.

by southsideirish71 on Mar 25, 2008 2:32 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

"should be able to see"

what those people can see is performance. maybe they can suppose someone is hurt but players need to tell coaches when they're hurting. remember macdougal last year? remember liriano? hell, apparently liriano still doesn't tell the coaches how he's feeling. you can't put a player under an MRI every other day or read their mind. i'd argue player input is a rather large part of it.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 2:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree in the situation with Liriano

But, MacDougal's drop in productivity was kind of where his talent level is - not as much to do with any injury.

Hall can barely throw and is hitting terrible. Obviously something isn't right and player input should only be part of this evaluation. Of course he is going to say he is fine because he doesn't want to go on the DL or be sent down to Charlotte.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 25, 2008 2:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

which is why

it would have been nice if macdougal had, you know, said something about his arm injury.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Gotcha

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Mar 25, 2008 2:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I seem to recall

a part of the reason I was against that trade was because MacDougal is always hurt.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's senseless.

you're a lot more likely to end up riding a bus to games in the IL by failing to disclose your injury than you are if you do.

"This has been a very long campaign so, occasionally I am a human being like everybody else. Last week for the first time in 12 or so years, I misspoke."

by Toonderstrook on Mar 25, 2008 3:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Marte in '06

Sure pisses Ozwaldo off when they don't disclose injuries. Might find yourself on a different team.

Hey man, this game is a bunch of frontrunners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.''

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Another issue I have with this organization...

is their infatuation with Spring Training. A roster should basically be set coming into Spring Training -- important roles shouldn't be up for a *competition*. What are 25 innings or 40 at-bats really going to tell you?

Then again, maybe I'm being a little too harsh here. It could be lip service from KW and co, as I know you can't just outwardly say that the roster is set on March 1st.

Also, since I've been out of the loop with regards to baseball a bit... Jerry Owens is seriously going to be a starter? Seriously? Is that what I'm gathering? Ugh...

And also, welcome back, JRE -- more and more I think I'm regretting our little White Sox offense bb-reference wager. Make that two "ughs".

by CWSKeith on Mar 25, 2008 2:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes - GM and Manager

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 25, 2008 2:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

CF or LF (Anderson vs Owens vs Ramirez vs Quentin)? 2B?

Am I reading the situation incorrectly? Are Richar and Quentin going to get their respective spots back? I know both were hurt (or still recovering) and there were other issues with Richar, but I haven't gathered that Quentin will be certain to grab the LF spot once his shoulder is completely healthy. Ditto Richar, although -- as you've mentioned in the past -- the difference between Richar and Uribe might not be a whole helluva lot.

by CWSKeith on Mar 25, 2008 2:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The only way something happens is if KW steps in

Uribe will be the starting 2nd baseman. Ozzie played him last year no matter how bad he was. And Ozzie has to have his Marlin-like speedster at the top. No matter how bad his OBP, or how many times he gets caught. Speed never slumps.

Quentin will be a 4th OF on this team due to his 40 yard dash time.

by southsideirish71 on Mar 25, 2008 2:50 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

those are important?

okay. i don't view those decisions as important. flip a coin between uribe and richar. richar hurt. done. and there was no outfield competition. there was a "competition" if you want to call it that for a bench/platoon spot. and that competition probably had more to do with seeing whether quentin was ready to play or not. there was a competition for the last guy out of the bullpen. again, not that important.

this team frankly had one of the least interesting ST's for roster decisions out of any likely below/near .500 team.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 2:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

No lie, bwana

Perhaps because all of our positions that are "up for competition" are being sought by folks with a similar profile - not much of a discernable difference, especially when hurt.

Hey man, this game is a bunch of frontrunners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.''

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 2:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i guess that's why there'd be a competition, then

but it's not like we brought in a ton of guys to compete or something. we're not the nationals or marlins or twins something. this roster was, what, 90% set in early january?

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 3:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My point is - there's not going to be a lot of

change in position players if they are all producing the same numbers. Competition is rendered moot.
What's tough to watch is the lack of diversification in our non-"core" players. Hopefully when Q gets healthy we'll see something different.

Hey man, this game is a bunch of frontrunners. If you're good, they kiss your butt. If not, you're horse s---.''

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 3:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i got your point

my point was that if you have two guys who are going to do about the same thing, it's pretty hard to pick between them based on anything all that logical. so you may as well do something like tell them they can win the job in spring training competition. better than flipping a coin or being accused of some sort of "grudge."

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 4:04 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Then why the sarcasm?

We don't know how it was presented to Uribe/Ramirez/Richar/Anderson/Owens/Q/etc in ST. And with Uribe's name floated via the waiver wire it seems the Sox might've been uncertain (and/or not satisfied) with anyone's performance, or at least his, and might've been looking elsewhere.

Besides, who the hell cares if anyone is accused of a "grudge"? Certainly not management, who traded McCarthy, is looking to dump Anderson, and has shown no problems with any and all contrary opinions to their strategy.

My actual point was that if anyone was expecting a great improvement based upon who we added to the roster (other than Swish, and maybe Alexei) they were going to be disappointed. And I can't see much of an upgrade in performance from our young guys, unless Danks and Floyd mature quickly.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 4:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

as for who the hell cares

me. because i've had to read the whining on here for nearly a year that BA didn't get the starting job over erstad even though he "won" a "competition." there couldn't have been anything else that went into that decision - rightly or wrongly - could there have been.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 4:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OK - I agree with the BA assessment

But you know quite well conspiracy theorists will always cling to whatever misguided belief despite facts supporting the contrary. Ozzie could take a polygraph and DNA test and it would not suffice.

I do think there was more of a competiton this year, at least at 2B. (Owens may've won the CF role after last September, but who knows?)

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 4:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

there would have been more of a competition

if richar hadn't gotten hurt. uribe had the job once that happened.

there wasn't any competing going on in the outfield either - just guys trying to stay off the DL or get back from it. BA got lucky with not one but two injuries.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 4:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

misguided? despite the facts?

what are the facts? that he was a punter?

by The Wizard on Mar 25, 2008 5:59 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that both were/are shit players

neither of whom deserved to start. the sox simply decided to fall into the "veteran" trap instead. whatever. you'll note that each had a similar number of at-bats in their respective years and produced similar numbers. it is somewhat silly to go out and get a player to do exactly what someone you already have can do but perhaps there was some notion that they could "hide" BA and trade him for something of value while using erstad as a placeholder until torii hunter or whoever was signed the following year. who knows.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 6:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL!

ozzie and kenny mishandle a player and screw his development

and afterwards larry says 'he is a shit player'

duh!

by The Wizard on Mar 25, 2008 6:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

no

i said were/are. meaning he was and is a shit player. we all know what you think of BA. but you may want to at least consider the possibility that there is merit to the argument that BA was a 4th outfielder in 2006 and remains as such. i'm failing to see the "screw his development" angle. he didn't get to play much in chicago so they sent him down to do so in charlotte. i don't think not even a full month of having irregular playing time constitutes "screwing" someone's development. if anything, ensuring they get regular ABs is the opposite of that.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 6:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't think BA was a star

he was below below average for the first 2 months of 2006 and average afterwards
I thought that he was better than anything else we had and if handled as he should (not having erstad start over him, not sending him to AAA) we could have an average CFer (a bit below average at offense and a lot over average at defense)

I also thought he should've gotten the nod over darin effin erstad
what would erstad give you?
a below average performance for 1 year
BA could give you an average performance for many years
cheap too

you may want to at least consider the possibility that there is merit to the argument that BA was a 4th outfielder in 2006

as I said 'below below average for the first 2 months of 2006 and average afterwards'

i don't think not even a full month of having irregular playing time constitutes "screwing" someone's development

it's not like he was on the bench for 1 month and then played for the rest 5 months
he was on the bench for 1 month and then got send down
send down to do what? face AAAA pitching?

by The Wizard on Mar 25, 2008 7:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You tell 'em, Wiz.

I don't give a flying fuck what they say about Crede, but don't let them malign BA!

Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?

by ballyb on Mar 25, 2008 7:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This goddamn horse

will NOT die! It's like a cockroach. You cannot kill it.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 8:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm with you wiz

Just wait till Ramirez gets the starting call over BA this season - dis kid is reel fast too.

No it will never die!

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 25, 2008 8:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And to think

I had my son switch his jersey from 32 to 30 this year...

So instead of a big splash, there were ripples -- enough to change the tide, Williams believes

by Brush Back on Mar 25, 2008 8:28 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

See above

that both were/are shit players
neither of whom deserved to start. the sox simply decided to fall into the "veteran" trap instead. whatever. you'll note that each had a similar number of at-bats in their respective years and produced similar numbers. it is somewhat silly to go out and get a player to do exactly what someone you already have can do but perhaps there was some notion that they could "hide" BA and trade him for something of value while using erstad as a placeholder until torii hunter or whoever was signed the following year. who knows

larry's a helluva lot more eloquent than me. Besides, wiz, it is a fait accompli. Machts nichts.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 8:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

busted

Who had an argument about BA in the "first flame to break the comments" pool?

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 8:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

this is why i said

the area for posting comments is way too small. what was this, 15 replies to a post and we're out? kind of ridiculous.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 8:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

perhaps i'm misreading WU

but i'm not sure he was talking about what you seem to want to keep beating into the ground. i think he was talking about how there may have been something other than ozzie guillen hating brian anderson that went into the decision to start erstad.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 8:44 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

oh I see

my bad then, sorry WU

by The Wizard on Mar 25, 2008 8:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ain't a thing

I'm just worried about your future ulcer, wiz.

:-)

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 8:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yep

Like KW REALLY liked Erstad. For 7 years. Remember how he "got his man"?

Let..it..go.

I took the "under".

by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 8:46 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

re

Let..it..go.

I can't!

:p

by The Wizard on Mar 25, 2008 8:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

@ Larry

I can show you a thread that I know collapsed in the old SSS, but doesn't in the new one.

I gotta look for it though.... I'll post it at the bottom of the thread

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 8:53 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough

You seem to have a better grasp on the situation than I do and as such I'll defer to your commentary. I thought Quentin was mostly healthy coming into Spring Training -- and I define "mostly healthy" as not too many lingering effects from the surgery, able to play without pain the next day. That was clearly wrong.

I guess it goes back to that Carlos Quentin quote from Kenny, something along the lines of, "We didn't want somebody like Carlos Quentin, we wanted Carlos Quentin." This seems to be contradicted by (what is looking like) Owens starting even when Quentin is fully healthy. Or am I off-base there as well? I'm obviously asking you to look into a crystal ball and wanting you to give me a very uncertain answer, but nonetheless I'm interested in your thoughts.

by CWSKeith on Mar 25, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i thought quentin would be ready to go on day 1

he wasn't. sort of like with richar, it ended any real "competition." quentin has an easier path back up from AAA once he gets his hacks in because BA is the one who'd go and he'll be on a real short leash. if by "competition" you meant that roles would be better defined, i guess that's what the situation would have been if quentin was healthy. but it's not like we didn't know owens was on the roster, if healthy, and would be playing a good amount. we also knew quentin would be on the roster, if healthy. honestly, just like with most teams, the only interesting things occurred when guys got hurt.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 3:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I continue to be amazed at how many folks

Are throwing a hissy fit over the opening day 25 man roster.

A) It is likely to be different at some point in the season (There are other options to step in as I have argued.

B) Most of you don't feel they can compete anyway so if the roster changes happen in a month, whatever.

by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 3:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

well

there tends to be a level of inertia regarding who you break camp with. if you make the team opening day, you probably would be set in your job a lot longer than if you're the guy who comes up as a replacement, no matter what your performance is (unless it's one of those "timed" moves where everyone knew joe rookie was arriving june 15 in order to avoid super two and you're just a placeholder until then).

at any rate, i don't think it's incorrect to complain about not putting one's best team out there. games matter just as much in march as they do in september. i doubt there's anyone on here who actively wants to see the sox suck so i think we'd all like to see the best possible team out there in order for the sox to have the best chance to compete the longest.

by larry on Mar 25, 2008 3:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I hear you

And in general agree with you. But its past that now on here. Bitching about Uribe starting at 2nd when Richar is hurt at this point is just goofy to me. I realize Im in the minority (what new) on how long JO would be allowed to suck and even how many times he'll lead off anyway.

In the end imo the season will still come down to players named Danks, Floyd, Contreras and rather "real" important players stay healthy and experience some s