Fields to Charlotte, officially
White Sox general manager Ken Williams described his conversation with Fields as "worse" than expected, adding that Fields took the news with class and vowed to improve in several areas.
about 1 year ago
The Cheat
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This is an embarrassment to the organization.
by SSH2005 on Mar 25, 2008 3:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
fire kenny
what a scared piece of shit he is to make this move be a man admit you made a mistake by not getting rid of crede and sign his walking papers embarrasing one of our potentially best players in in triple A
by mp11932 on Mar 25, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But not surprising
Many I spoke with at camp were of the opinion he needed more time. And not in LF.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 4:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
More time for what?
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
by BoKnows on Mar 25, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
What, precisely, is he going to accomplish in Charlotte?
And what is Joe Crede going to accomplish for the White Sox? Did they decide that, with the departure of Darin Erstad and Scott Podsednik, that they were lacking in the "total offensive liability" department?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Mar 25, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait till he learns how to hit a fastball
Facing Tim Redding, Felix Diaz, and other 90 to 91 mph meatball pitchers only to come up and face Verlander and CC.
by southsideirish71 on Mar 25, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's not my opinion
But then again, I have never played/coached in the majors or minors, either, so I tend to defer to those that have, and have no vested interest one way or the other in seeing a kid stay up or go down.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wanted you to clarify...
Did they want Josh to have more time in the minors or more time in the majors?
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
by BoKnows on Mar 25, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minors
It was suggested he is not ready to be an every-day 3rd baseman and has fairly large holes in his swing. Suggested by a former ROY and minor leage manager-of-the-year, among others.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll accept the...
not ready to play everyday 3rd base, but crede's got some pretty big holes in his swing as well.
"This has been a very long campaign so, occasionally I am a human being like everybody else. Last week for the first time in 12 or so years, I misspoke."
by Toonderstrook on Mar 25, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not going to fix those holes...
facing minor-league pitching.
And I don't think that he's going to improve much as a fielder, either. It's not like third base is a new position for him.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Mar 25, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect that opinion...but disagree with it
He had absurd power numbers last season. I don't care if he had to play third with a frying pan, I'd rather have him at this moment than Crede.
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
by BoKnows on Mar 25, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ye, Bo
and agree with your assessment. It's not my cross to bear...
Sometimes I feel like I'm tied to the whippin' post (as long as we're doing the Allmans) with this team.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Mar 25, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Owens to the DL
I'd "Fanshot" it but I'm too lazy. Wiz? There's an article on Whitesox.com, I'm fairly certain...
by CWSKeith on Mar 25, 2008 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're missing the word "could"
Gonzo said the same thing in the linked blog post. I'll wait until they make it official.
If he starts the season on the DL with a fuckin' groin issue, he earns a derisive nickname. What will it be?
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 25, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The article says...
that Owens is getting an MRI and could end up on the DL...
Either way, it's good news for Brian Anderson, at least in the short run...
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Mar 25, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the conversation with Hall
was "Hey Toby, if you were manager of this team, what would you do?"
Followed quickly by a "Hey Toby, if you were general manager of this team, what would you do?"
At which point Hall gave a glowing endorsement to guys who can't throw, hit or both (Owens, Uribe, Crede) in an effort to surround himself with some players of similar talent levels.
I, too, was taught karate by an old asian man who was the maintenance man in my building.
by MarketMaker on Mar 25, 2008 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I think I see the master plan:
Crede continues to suck through April while Fields is tearing it up. The fans will be DEMANDING Kenny to bring him up, he'll trade Crede for the proverbial bag of balls and then say he gave the fans what they wanted (like Pontious Pilate). See? It's US forcing Kenny to settle for the balls, instead of letting him try for a better deal.
Genious I tell you, pure genious.
Next time, Bhoov, do some research.
by Chiburb on Mar 25, 2008 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The conversation with Fields was probably worse than expected
because Josh probably asked, "What did I do to deserve to be demoted to AAA?"
Kenny, "Uhhh...Ummm...Uhhh. Thanks for being a good sport about this Josh."
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
by BoKnows on Mar 25, 2008 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this really upsets me
Fields was one of the bright spots of the team I was looking forward to watching. I like Crede and all, but he's hurt, not producing and a Boras client.
by shaftr on Mar 25, 2008 4:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
this is the right thing to do. The option appears to be throw away 5 million dollars. Let Crede play enough so that at least someone will pick up his full salary. Let Fields work on his fielding while potentially buying an extra year of arb (does anybody know if 1 month in the minors will accomplish this?).
I actually wish they would do the same thing with Alexei. I just don't see where his ABs come from with Pablo AND Juan on board. And even moreso than Fields this is someone that needs to play everyday.
The win difference is likely to be minimal (Crede better with glove, Fields with bat) if Crede returns to regular .750 OPS Joe Crede. If he doesn't, hey you tried your best, move on. He gets 6 weeks max to prove he's OK for trade. I'd rather have Josh play every day in Charlotte than 2 days a week up here.
Would love to see JO on the DL with BA starting
by bhoov on Mar 25, 2008 4:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is Cowardice
This is simply cowardice, yes, on this week following Easter: very Pontius Pilate like. KW is too cowardly to admit he made the mistake to bring Crede back when he's blocking a MLB ready prospect and has no trade value. It's funny that the Sox are shelling out 10 million dollars for two players that add absolutely nothing to the team. I have a feeling that that 10 million could have been much, much better spent on player development or an actual good player(s).
I am personally going to guarantee that Crede will not have an OPS above .800 at the end of May. Furthermore, I will say that it is highly likely that he does not have an OPS above .700.
Meanwhile the White Sox's best position prospect (oh gawd how we have fallen) will languish in AAA after already proven he can hit with power in the Show.
Fields is one of the few bright spots on this crappy team.
by madvillian on Mar 25, 2008 4:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Personal guarantee huh?
Because... spring training stats are so predictive of regular season? Gimme a break. We all want Fields up here but this trashing of Crede is ridiculous. No he is not Mike Schmidt revisited but if he is healthy (and so far he appears to be) he will put up a +.700 ops.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is...
that Crede has no future with this club. He has no trade value, and will be gone after 2008. He brings nothing to the table at this point.
The future is Fields. They need to work on developing Fields, and he's got nothing left to learn in the minors.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Mar 25, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again we dont know that yet.
Fields is not somehow ruined now. And Crede can play plus defensive. Id rather work out a way for him to stay also but giving away Crede at this point for nothing is well pointless.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd even be OK with a Crede giveaway
as long as someone else pays his full salary. Right now I doubt we can even get rid of him without doling out at least half his salary. Let him play so we can can recoup that 5 million dollars. It could go to another Alexei.
By the way with the acquisitions of Swisher and Ramirez I think KW has had an excellent offseason. Sometimes you just have to deal with a temporary bad situation when thing don't go as hoped (Crede hitting below .100). If Crede's posting a .600 OPS while playing everyday 2 months from now then that's a disaster. This is just a minor nuisance that is likely to be win neutral.
by bhoov on Mar 25, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its seems strange to me that so many
Are ready to swear Crede offers no benefit to the big club this year before he has played 1 reg season game. And of course Fields is the future and present.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because we already know what we have in Crede...
He's a ~.750 OPS guy with a good glove. Fields has the potential to be better.
by SSH2005 on Mar 25, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
News flash!
A .750-.800 OPS third baseman with a good glove has value.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fields...
Has the ability to be a .850-.900 OPS guy with average to slightly below average glove.
I'd rather have Fields. Plus he doesn't have the injury issues Crede has.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 25, 2008 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What has that got to do with the price of tea in China
I think its a fact that everyone on this site wants Fields on the team.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because...
He has considerably more upside. If Crede could've shown me something in Spring Training I might be inclined to change my mind.
"God knows I gave my best in baseball at all times and no man on earth can truthfully judge me otherwise."
by Shoeless In SC on Mar 25, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps you should reference the original post.
It was implied to as a response that it was assured that Crede offered no value to the 2008 White Sox. We don't know that. The 06 Crede was valuable.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are we sure that has value?
i thought so, too. now i'm not so sure. i wonder if we won't just see a dye, mixed with some arod/warren buffet drama, situation by july.
by larry on Mar 25, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your asking whether its enough value to never bring up fields
No. On whether its has value in general. Yes. Assuming he is really healthy and doing it consistently.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crede has a .751 career OPS...
he is not an .800 OPS player.
by SSH2005 on Mar 25, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
barely a year and a half ago
he was finishing up a season well above .800. i think tdogg's range is just fine and you're simply looking for something to fight about.
by larry on Mar 25, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since When is
.829 (with a .323 OBP) well above .800? Oh, did I mention that that is his career year?
Lets just project all of our guys on their career years. That way we can pencil in Uribe for a good year along with Crede. Yea sure, I'm missing your point and putting words in your mouth -- but I think going by "well he had an OPS over .800 a little over a year and a half ago" is pretty silly.
I don't have BP premium but I think the chances of him putting up .823 are about slim and none this year.
There is no reasonable argument that involves pure baseball utility that can be made for Crede over Fields. None. Not only is Fields likely to be better this year, he's younger, healthier, and much, much cheaper.
by madvillian on Mar 25, 2008 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone piss in your cheerios? settle down.
since when is .750-.800 projecting on someone's career year. it's a range. a relatively reasonable one, too, to people who aren't friggin' lunatics.
by larry on Mar 25, 2008 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OPS+
Is better so lets just use that. Crede career OPS+: 92.
So if it fair to pencil in Crede for an OPS+ of 92?
by madvillian on Mar 25, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pencil him in for whatever you want
this is idiotic. you're the one who apparently thinks .23 of OPS doesn't matter much so why is everyone going after tdogg over it?
by larry on Mar 25, 2008 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me...
it doesn't matter too much whether Crede is terrible or if he's decent this year. The fact is that a half-season of even a decent third baseman isn't worth anything.
Look at what the Sox got for a half-season of Tadahito Iguchi, or a half-season of Rob Mackowiak. There's no reason to expect that the Sox will get anything more for Crede than they got for either of those two guys.
So, basically, Williams is holding onto Crede in the hopes that he'll get a slightly better A-ball reliever and maybe save a million or two.
I was against tendering Crede in the first place, but now that they have, he's a sunk cost. Williams needs to suck it up and realise that fact.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Mar 25, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course you do
You think they have no chance at all of competing.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Crede has value...
why can't Kenny trade him so we can get the better 3B on the field?
by SSH2005 on Mar 25, 2008 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You truly have a special gift
Take a sentence, make up your own point and argue against it.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is...
Fields playing part-time (DH LHP, and spelling Crede) would make a stronger major league team. And I seriously doubt it would hurt his development.
The Sox won't do it because they refuse to sit Thome and they feel the need for 2 backup middle infielders. The latter reason is understandable from a conventional baseball thinking standpoint, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Plus, if Thome is really as good a guy as is said you'd think he could deal with it.
by hitlesswonder on Mar 25, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said I would rather Fields stayed also
That doesnt seem to be the main argument of some folks.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I can understand the Sox feeling they can't eat $5M So, if they have no A-ball reliever deal they can make, I understand keeping him until the salary can get moved. We just don't know what options Williams has for moving Crede, if any.
by hitlesswonder on Mar 25, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is
Most of us think that Crede is going to suck. Why will a few months of suck raise his trade value? This is just a bad, bad move.
by madvillian on Mar 25, 2008 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else is new?
We all saw Crede struggle and go backward with a bad back. He had surgery. He may or may not be okay. You proclaiming to "know" doesnt make it so.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really wish
That I could live in your postmodern fantasy world where nothing is ever more likely to happen than something else, where nothing is proven "wrong" until after the fact, where there are no bad moves, no clear cut choices -- only a gray mist of impenetrable fog in which we should all just cower before the divine oracle that is KW and follow him wherever he will take us.
by madvillian on Mar 25, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep you nailed it.
That is exactly what I said. Only make statements unless you are 100% certain and blindly follow KW. All your original statements were sound and rational and more likely to happen.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
latter = former
So much for trying sound comprehensible today...arrg
by hitlesswonder on Mar 25, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since when is an OPS just above .700 a good thing?
by SSH2005 on Mar 25, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im sorry SSH
I must have missed when I said that.
by Tdogg on Mar 25, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost everyone loves Crede.
But the Sox needed a backup plan. Maybe Fields working out atv 2nd (to be the util. IFer) or playing some LF.
Something other than being in AAA.
Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?
by ballyb on Mar 25, 2008 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Based on some of the above comments,
ah.....maybe I was wrong about the "everyone loves Crede" part.
Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?
by ballyb on Mar 25, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
shoot
i don't really like crede and i'm the one on here who is supposedly defending him against those who think you can pencil him in for a .751 but it's absolutely unconscionable and patently absurd to assert that he may produce a .775.
by larry on Mar 25, 2008 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a sucker for really good D. See BA.
See BA.
Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?
by ballyb on Mar 25, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zips
Has him for .756 and Fields for .785.
Sure, he may put up .775, but Fields is a better bet for it.
by madvillian on Mar 25, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fields
Is not very good at playing third base. Defense is important and Crede, if he's in pre-back injury form, is better at it then Fields. Actually, his numbers from '07 look good, not great:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/credejo01.shtml
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?lastName=Crede
Let Josh work on his fielding and stop worrying. I don't think there's much difference between Josh and Joe this year anyway.
by coffeepac on Mar 25, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Crede or Fields" is not an exclusive-or
Fields could be on the roster and platoon with Thome and play when Crede sits.
You can make a much better case that Ramirez should be in AAA getting regular at-bats and working on playing 2B/SS. Instead, he'll get an inordinate but sporadic amount of time in CF in Chicago.
It's a very inefficient use of talent.
by hitlesswonder on Mar 25, 2008 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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