Giving the Masset news the FJM treatment
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 12:56 AM CDT
152 comments
Nick Masset didn't know he made the White Sox active roster as their seventh reliever until he was informed by a couple of reporters following Saturday's Civil Rights Game with the Mets.
Translation: Ozzie couldn't bear to look this sorry excuse for a pitcher in the eye.
The manner in which the news was delivered didn't lessen the excitement for the right-hander.
"All right," said Masset with a smile. "Yes, I'm pumped. I had no idea."
Translation: I know I had no reasonable right to make this club. I'm a horseshit pitcher. But I sure am glad I'm out of options. Per diem, baby!
Ozzie Guillen had announced the team's final move after the Mets' 3-2 victory, with Masset getting the nod over Ehren Wassermann for the honor of 25th man. Masset had a 7.06 ERA over 21 2/3 innings this spring, compared to Wassermann's 3.09 ERA in 11 2/3 innings.
Masset also had an ERA of 7.09 in 39 innings with a WHIP of nearly 2.0 with the White Sox last year, while Wasserman, who was called upon when the Sox finally decided they didn't want to set a record for bullpen futility and sent Masset to the minors, posted a 2.74 ERA in 33 appearances. So you can see how this was a tough decision made solely on the merits of their respective pitching abilities.
Wasserman was the second-most effective reliever for the White Sox in 2007 behind closer Bobby Jenks, while Masset did not even earn a September callup. But Masset can serve as the team's long reliever, or as a sixth starter if necessary, and he also is out of options.
You have a choice between two airlines: Airline #1 is a small, no-frills carrier, but has an impeccable on-time and safety record. They fly to most major cities, but rarely fly non-stop. Airline #2 supposedly has the ability to fly cross-country non-stop, but has been plagued by pesky crashes (air to ground anomalies, they say), frequent delays and they always lose your luggage. But you have a soon-to-expire coupon for Airline #2. Decision made.
If the White Sox selected Wasserman, there was a good chance they would lose Masset.
I honestly think Merkin is trying to use this statement as a negative. I don't know how he thinks a sentence that ends "they would lose Masset" could possibly be a bad thing.
Let me try a couple of these... If The Cheat had won the lottery, he wouldn't have to work as a black market kidney donor anymore. If it wasn't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college. Sounds about right.
"We couldn't take the chance and gamble that way," Guillen said. "We have to look at the long shot, 162 games, even though Wassermann outperformed him. We know what [Masset] has, just in case something happens.
We know Masset has the ability to help us overachieve our Pythagorean Record by making sure we end up on the losing end of an inordinate amount of blowouts. All Wassermann can do is keep close games close, and we have no use for that here.
"I'm not afraid to bring Wassermann back. I know what we can get. He performed well, and that's a tough one for me. He did so great, but he was caught up in the same situation like [Josh] Fields.
Translation: If I had my way, Wassermann would be with the club right now. But it's not my choice. I'll have him back as soon as possible, sometime in August, when we're 6-10 games under .500.
Ozzie's talking out his ass with regards to the Crede-Fields situation, which we already glossed over when Fields was demoted. Crede is a plus-defensive, former (undeserving) Silver Slugger winner, who is a two-time minor league MVP, a major league player, an arguably below-average major league player, but a major leaguer nonetheless. Masset has far more in common with Sean Tracey, who the Sox correctly let go when his option status forced a similar "decision" this time last year, than he does with Joe Crede.
"It is what it is," Guillen added. "He did everything in his power to be here, and it was another tough decision."
Translation: It is what is; a terrible decision, sure to cost the Sox games this season, made for all the wrong reasons.
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Hahaha.
Thanks, Cheat. You just made this unbearable news...well, not bearable, but at least hilarious.
I'm so thrilled to have Masset back.
by mcdoofus on Mar 30, 2008 1:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed the airline analogy
Nick "ValuJet" Masset.
by Sox Machine on Mar 30, 2008 1:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Another excellent preseason
move to shore up the middle relieve situation. Man I liked Wasserman! This team is run by a bunch of horsesasses!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 1:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
incest mask
admittedly, i've just been out drinking, so my reaction may be a bit strong, but this is some goddamn motherfucking bullshit right here. how exactly does this dovetail with the stated goal of competing this season? and what in the world would have been so terrible out losing nick fucking masset? i'm sick about this move.
what am i supposed to take away from a move like this other than the belief that kenny wililams cares more about his reputation/ego than he does about fielding a winning team. "oh no, we might lose nick masset, a guy who has shown nothing but the ability to suck mightily in every chance he's been given. we better put him on the major league roster so we can hold onto him over an effective pitcher like ehren wasserman who we can safely stash in the minor leagues."
excellent plan. i wonder how many times masset will have to suck at the big league level to finally get his sorry ass released.
again, i'm drunk, so apologies for any inappropriate vulgarity or nonsense. but, shit, man, this sucks.
by Ryno on Mar 30, 2008 3:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
...that's the kind of sentence
that when you hear it, your brain comes to a screeching hault. And the left hand side of the brain looks at the right hand side and goes, 'It's dark in here, and we may die.'
I, too, was taught karate by an old asian man who was the maintenance man in my building.
by MarketMaker on Mar 30, 2008 3:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
But wait, there;s more
The problem with Kenny sometimes is that he compounds his mistakes by being stubborn. He found Masset, he likes Masset and if he cut him loose with no ROI he looks like a schmuck.
Kenny needs to understand that even he makes mistakes. And there have been a whole lot more of them since 2005.
Chip Ramsey
by chipramsey on Mar 30, 2008 7:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
one interesting thing
I'll be interested (you know...sort of) how long the Sox carry Masset on the major league roster if he continues to not get people out. Similarly, I'll be interested in seeing what happens with Crede if he plays the way he did in spring training. I think both are likely to perform poorly, although as Cheat said there's at least some reason for hope with Crede. Masset is like a Rule V draft pick without the upside.
by hitlesswonder on Mar 30, 2008 8:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You ain't nevah lied!
They would "lose Masset"? An oxymoron. This was a no-brainer and it's pretty clear where the brains are. Turkey, anyone?
by MollyMeanGirl on Mar 30, 2008 9:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this is a completely illogical and entirely indefensible decision
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 9:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
though it does provide us another over/under opportunity
it seems debatable whether masset can make it to 30 games, let alone 162.
over or under on release by may 19?
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take the over.
If the powers that be haven't seen enough by now to show them that Masset isn't worth having, then I really do believe that they have blinders on, created by their egos.
I sure do hope I'm wrong though.
I'll bring the awesome.
by Hazymania on Mar 30, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take the under.
Masset is getting ready to get the Damaso Marte treatment x's 10. He will start off getting booed when he leaves the game after giving up 3-4 runs. Then he will start getting booed when he comes into the game. By the way this is in my opinion the worst move of the KW era. A bad move in so many different ways that I'm almost speechless. It just really reflects so badly on the organization and directly contradicts the supposed philosophy of "win now". Just pathetic.
by bhoov on Mar 30, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generally, does the last bullpen spot
matter that much? I suspect not, though this decision is met with retching because we're looking at it in the perspective of other questionable decisions. Throw in Ozzie's out and out lies about fielding the best team on a day by day basis (Thome against Sabbathia?) and Masset becomes the poster boy for all that is wrong with this team.
I'm usually the 1st or 2nd to say that's why they play the games, but Kenny and Ozzie sure can turn my glass from 1/2 full to 1/2 empty in a hurry.
Next time, Bhoov, do some research.
by Chiburb on Mar 30, 2008 10:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no it doesn't
but this isn't just a questionable move; it's an indefensible one. masset probably doesn't deserve to be on a AAA roster, let alone a major league one.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
This is just bad bad bad. This is no defense. The margin is slim enough without putting an extreme negative outcome in the mix.
by Tdogg on Mar 30, 2008 11:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Clearly the wrong decison
But it feels like there is complete outrage over this move, and the fact that Uribe will be starting over Quentin has been somewhat shrugged off. We saw Ehren's eventual demotion coming a mile away. Kenny stated one of his main offseason goals was to acquire the Carlos Quentin. I never thought it was so he could be a 4th outfielder. Masset will cost us more runs than Wasserman would, but this is the 6th bullpen arm. Uribe will be taking Quentin's ABs every day. Maybe caution with Quentin's injury history or the ease of correcting who starts a game over who joins the 25-man is the reason for less controversy with that move.
by 3E8 on Mar 30, 2008 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you pointed out the difference yourself
one move can be defended, whether you agree or not, with rational reasons. the other cannot.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the effect is being understated here...
Let's use last year's usage as an example...
Using FanGraphs leverage index as a guide to demonstrate the difference in importance of the batters they faced... Masset's leverage index was .83 for his 26 relief appearances and 1.10 for his lone start against the Cubs. Wassermann's LI was 1.22 in 33 appearances. 1.00 is average, and a number you really only see from starters, since relievers throw higher leverage innings in general.
This isn't a choice between two back-end bullpen guys. It was a choice between one highly valuable member of staff that will help you win many games, and a dime-a-dozen backend innings eater, who isn't even very good at that since he's going to be so sheltered from close game situations.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's true
but would wasserman really be used in the same way this year (set aside, for a moment, whether he should be)? the bullpen sucked last year. no set up guys. wasserman showed an ability to get people out and was used accordingly. with guys like linebrink, dotel, macdougal, was wasserman really going to get the same opportunities? i doubt it.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he would be used much in the 8th
or maybe even the 7th as he was late last year...
But think about it like this... Floyd pitches 5.1 and has 2 baserunners on as he's pulled. There are a couple righties due up... Ozzie calls on who?
Jenks is out, obviously. Too early to use Dotel or Linebrink. Booner and Thornton don't use the right hand. So the choice is down to Mmac and Masset... Ozzie will, at least initially, call on MacDougal. But wouldn't you rather have Wasserman?
Actually, working through that in my head, I can now see Masset being with the team until at least the All-Star break. Because when both he and MacDougal fail, MacDougal will get sent out since he still has an option remaining.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course i would. that's why i said set it aside.
but are we really talking a great difference? i don't know. what i do know is that macdougal is probably on a short leash and wasserman is the first guy up. and while i don't think it's all that important, having a schlub mopping up innings instead of real pitchers has some value as well. i just don't see this move meaning all that much in reality.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's a big difference
In the situation Cheat described, where Floyd has thrown enough pitches to come out after 5+, our chances to lose the game are probably greater than those to win it. Sometimes by a lot, where Masset can eat up meaningless innings without subjecting good relievers to that. That's the only thing Masset seems to bring to this team. I would much rather have Ehren on the team, but I don't view it as the worst decision going into opening day
by 3E8 on Mar 30, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think
people are viewing this as a season long move or something. will masset be here for a while? maybe. i think this guy will be damaso marted by sox fans pretty quickly, though. but what sort of innings is ozzie going to bring him in for? as for wasserman, i'd be pretty surprised if he spends much more than a couple months in charlotte. with our pen, if it's not masset who's gone, it will be mac. and if it's not those it will be dotel. and if it's not those, someone else will get hurt or suck. that's just the way bullpens go. and if wasserman is performing well on his call-up, it's going to be hard to send him back because ozzie loves his situational guys.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the addition of Linebrink and Dotel
Who both throw with the same hand as Wasserman, he would not be throwing in the same amount of high leverage situations this season. Plus Wasserman did almost all his work in August and September, when it was quite clear our team was going nowhere. Assuming we are a more competitive team this year, can you assume Ozzie would go to Ehren in close late-inning situations? Probably not
by 3E8 on Mar 30, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ozzie likes Wasserman. He trusts him
But he didn't make this decision... There's no doubt that he would feel comfortable tossing Wasserman in to high leverage situations against righties... Would he do it as often as late last year, no. But there's little doubt that Wasserman would see higher leverage innings than Masset, who, short of injury, won't see a game within 3 runs.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do I bother?
More fuzzy math/logic by Phil Rogers:
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 30, 2008 11:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm all for criticizing phil
but what exactly is fuzzy about that statement? i think it's probably right and, even if one doesn't entirely agree, i don't see how his logic could be described as fuzzy. three above average starters = competitiveness; two above average starters = oblivion.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I dont have a real problem with Phil on this
Contreras is definitely 1 of the critical question marks this year. Hell an effective Jose may limit the Masset train.
by Tdogg on Mar 30, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
i suppose my response is knee jerk, but i just think its going to take more than 3 above average starters for this team to be even competitive.
by onlysoxfaninboston on Mar 30, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well yeah
that's probably why he said "most important player." you know, singular. it's a newspaper article. it would be pretty boring if he listed the fifteen caveats - MB and javy must perform as expected, one of floyd and/or danks must not be atrocious, the bullpen has to be decent, the defense has to not be a sieve, thome must not die, etc. i think we can put our critical thinking hats on a little when we're reading.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Masset blows, but he is the new Haeger. A body for target practice and blowouts.
I truly believe that Ozzie, while still absolutely insane, has made progress this year. Batting Swisher lead off is evidence of that, as well as bringing up BA from the minors. As for the Cuban Missile Crisis (Alexei), many people on this board wanted him starting CF before he even signed a contract with us. As long as JO isn't our starting CFer, there is still hope for the Quentins and Wassermans of the world.
www.fratdaddy.blogspot.com
by Raf on Mar 30, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What you call progress
I call a manager having his hand forced by a bad player getting injured.
by Grinder in Training on Mar 30, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that often how growth occurs?
if you had told me three months ago that ozzie would have swisher leading off for any reason, i'd have laughed at you. i'm still waiting to see if it actually occurs in real games. but if it does, he should receive kudos for it.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off topic - "Sox History" videos
I have no comment on the Masset mess. This is stupidness beyond words.
On the bright side, the Trib has posted a bunch of neat videos worth a look at:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-soxhistoryvideo-html,0,3917564.htmlstory
I haven't checked out everything yet, but the Opening Day 1964 footage is interesting (note the sparse outfield crowd), as well as 1961 footage of Pres. Kennedy throwing out the first pitch from the stands (which is intercepted by Jungle Jim Rivera) and a 2004 5 min. video of Paulie talking about hitting technique.
Enjoy!
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
April prediction revised
This latest "move" has forced me to take my April 16-11 prediction down a few notches to 13-14...oh well.
Stoney said this morning on WSCR that the Sox will need 50 wins (yes 50) out of Buehrle, Vazquez and Father Time to have a chance at making the playoffs.
Lots O'Luck with that one Stoney.
In a recent radio interview Paulie commented he'd be happy getting out of April "around .500." Paulie, your wish shall be granted.
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
i guess this is the epitome of a move that has a larger psychological effect than a real one. masset wasn't worth three losses last year in 40 innings.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct...
His very presence boosts the "suck factor" significantly.
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our only hope
Is that Masset gets caught juicing or something. Quick, someone give him some "B12". Where's Canseco when you need him?
by vince_ on Mar 30, 2008 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey - these aren't your Daddy's Sox
Because they were restricted by lack of financial support... they would not have kept better talent in the minors. I think we can see were this team is heading. Its ego and arrogance that drives it.
Help! My groin's fallen and I can't get it up!
by Brush Back on Mar 30, 2008 12:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
amazing
So Wasserman earns a job, and doesn't get it because of the options on Masset. This doesn't make any sense. Watch Wasserman get traded.
by shaftr on Mar 30, 2008 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rick Hahn on WSCR yesterday
The Sox asst. G.M. was on one of the Sox weekly shows yesterday and said...
"Virtually everyone has to prove themselves annually. If anyone isn't getting the job done, we'll give him alternatives. No one has the luxury of tenure."
We'll hold you to it, Rick!
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 12:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"virtually"
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Always a loophole, right counselor?
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one should rarely speak in absolutes
because there are few.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Wassermann seemed to have proven himself, yet "he gone."
Joe Crede should probably be gone, yet he is enjoying the luxury of tenure.
I'm freakin' out man, I'm freakin' out!
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that - at least the BS is well scripted
Can't wait to see tickets sales after this season - especially if the other team does well again. It will seem like the Sox are back in the west division again.
Help! My groin's fallen and I can't get it up!
by Brush Back on Mar 30, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is SSH to give us a Masset *pukes*?
I am just glad the Sox actually start playing meaningful games tomorrow (if there was any doubt for some people on here whether ST games were meaningless, now we know for sure). And that I get to see Gio pitch live for the first time today.
"This has been a very long campaign so, occasionally I am a human being like everybody else. Last week for the first time in 12 or so years, I misspoke."
by Toonderstrook on Mar 30, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They were only meaningless in regards to record
Ok - correction, they are meaninigless in regards to who plays when, where, and if they will make the team.
Help! My groin's fallen and I can't get it up!
by Brush Back on Mar 30, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's not a correction
that's rather the point we've been making for like a month.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep - It was just a correction in my statement
I believe with the exception of a few - that has been the sentiment here.
So in reality - were do you now see them finishing in the division - based on these recent moves?
Help! My groin's fallen and I can't get it up!
by Brush Back on Mar 30, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no different
no moves they've made changes much of anything.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me this
is a poor PR move. Here you have Wasserman a hard working, successful pitcher. He's got working class stiff written all over him! And he gets the shaft . While the overpaid underacheiving, overhyped, fat cat veterans get there asses kissed! And another wannabee gets a chance to gum up the works!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 1:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You guys...
Do you not understand that they were forced to keep Masset in the bull-pen in case Danks or Floyd fail as starters? He provides 2 things even if he is not very good. 1. If Danks or Floyd are getting knocked around early in games he can come in and pitch 2-3 innings. 2. If one or two of them are failing badly they can move him into a starters role. I know this is not the most logical move but look at it realistically... if both Danks and Floyd fail then they already have someone on the 25 man roster to fill their spots and can call up Broadway.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So he gives us
5 shitty innings every fifth game instead of 3 or 4. Sweet life. Like someone said earlier, the Cubs start was a fluke. And yes, I would be more than happy to eat my words should he prove me wrong.
by onthemark12 on Mar 30, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fluke
Some people say 05' was a "fluke"
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're seriously comparing a 99-win season
to one 5+ inning start? The former implies consistency over a 7-month period, while the latter is an obvious outlier.
by onthemark12 on Mar 30, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
I think you guys need to chill a little bit (Ryno) we are talking about the final bull pen spot. We won the world series with Damaso Marte pitching in our bull pen. Calm the F down, grab a beer and enjoy watching the season no matter how it turns out because it's only entertainment. If you want to get into baseball management by all means follow your dreams if you think you can do a better job than the people who make the hard decisions.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 2:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Masset is only entertainment for the other team
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares
He is the 25th player on a 25 man roster.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny's job
is to compile the best 25-man roster given the cards he has dealt himself. He didn't do it. Yes, there are reasons unrelated to pure performance (i.e. number of options), and no, having Masset over Wasserman will not cause a 5-game swing on the season (we hope). But we have a right to get pissed when KW makes ego-based decisions like this that run counter to both the stated goal of the season and straight logic.
by onthemark12 on Mar 30, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I care because this is an 85 win team
which has been whittled down to a 75-win team by making poor decisions on the margins.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that deliberate hyperbole
or are you serious? hmm. maybe. i'd like to see that broken down.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's hyperbole
It may be slightly exaggerated. But I think it's true that the Sox have made a number of minor but bad decisions that will cost them wins. They aren't using Quentin and Fields optimally -- at the very least those guys could present a much stronger lineup against LHP. Dye is still in RF. And of course, Masset will actually pitch in games. You can say he'll never be in a situation where he'll actually effect the outcome, but I doubt that given the way Ozzie uses the pen.
Getting Fields or Quentin) in as DH against LHP is an easy decision -- it doesn't impact the defense at all. Getting Uribe's bat out of the lineup and Swisher in CF does impact the defense, so I won't guess exactly how that trades off except that I think Quentin's bat in LF probably still makes it a good move.
Of course, all of this is sort of complaining that the deck chairs haven't been shuffled correctly. The Sox aren't likely to contend anyway. But it's still annoying. And in the case of Fields, it's too bad he can't get some major league at-bats because that would actually be useful in his development.
by hitlesswonder on Mar 30, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must have Z-ed over Larry's comment
or I would have responded earlier...
No exaggeration.. The Sox have the talent base (that's including sure to be underutilized players such as Quentin, Anderson, Wassermann, Fields, and Egbert) to put together a solidly above average team.
But as it appears now, based on my own projected playting time... with Masset, Uribe, Crede, Owens, and to a lesser extent Ramirez, they've whittled away at that, and have made themselves into a solidly below average club.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
interesting
ten wins seems a stretch to me (i also don't think it's all that appropriate to be doing too much projected playing time at this point) but i obviously wouldn't disagree with the basic premise.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
85 is optimistic
based on my own playing time and projection... In other words, in a perfect world where nobody ever got injured and achieved my own expectations of their abilities...
I had 82 (only because I refused to take 81) a few weeks ago, based on how I thought the battles and playing time would work out according to Ozzie....
76-77, is where I feel they've headed, or where they appear to be headed based on their recent actions.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Entertainment implies enjoying what you are watching.
I will not enjoy watching Masset's 7.00 ERA or Crede's sub-.300 OBP.
by onthemark12 on Mar 30, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said
anything about Crede??? Why do you say it is his ego that forced him to make this move?? Doing this gives him the most flexibility. If Masset sucks like he did in the spring they will call Wasserman up and everyone will be happy. If they let Masset go before the start of the season and Wasserman turns out to suck then what?
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re
If Masset sucks like he did in the spring
if? was there a time where he didn't suck?
remember the small sample size principle
they will call Wasserman up and everyone will be happy
I wouldn't bet on it...
by The Wizard on Mar 30, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have scaled back to just popping in
to check on any roster moves. Sports boards are chock full of truly miserable people who just want to bring you down.
Big deal. It's one roster move. They might be trying to get 20 fair innings out of him, and package him with a healthy Crede for a trade. Who knows?
I remember running an AOL White Sox board back in 1997. I read in some notes column that the White Sox actually had the option of taking a 7th player in the "White Flag" trade. The players that the WSox had to choose from was less than impressive. They chose to not take the 7th player. You should have seen people complaining about how Schueler sucked because he didn't take anyone just to get a 7th player. Without even knowing if all the players on the list were drug dealers, or made $10 million a year.
Just to complain.
by KevinBellsDingers on Mar 30, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny tried to
get rid of Crede. There is no market for him right now so they need to patient and wait for the market to expand. Once again there is no harm sending Fields down to AAA. If he can't handle the demotion like a professional I wouldn't want him on the team anyways.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know cheat
i find masset pretty entertaining.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In your opinion
No games have been played yet.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 2:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're going to be that guy, huh
I have a record over 4 years on this... I was one of the few people who didn't absolutely slam the Lee trade. I quickly understood the give and take that trade allowed. I saw a team poised to compete in '05 though 87 wins was my official prediction. I saw a 91-92 win team in '06. I saw a disappointing 83 win team last year, who surprised everyone with their futility. And yet I was writing that they were a terrible team "inexplicably above .500" in early May.
You can try to minimize my opinion all you want, but until you have a before the fact record as accurate as mine, you're no different than Greg from Aurora.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheat
I am not in a pissing match with you. I read your opinions... some I agree with and some I dont. I cried myself to sleep over the Lee trade because he was my favorite player on the team. I understood what the club was trying to do and I was all for it because of the pitching staff that they put together through trades the previous year. The team explained why they made the move and the idea of playing national league style ball in the AL excited me. I don't bother predicting the future because I am not God, Cheat or Cleo the Psychic. I could go on record right now and say in my heart I believe we will be a competitive team... but I will not go on record predicting how many wins a team will have when I have no control over the final outcome. I do believe we have a better team than both Detroit or Cleveland. Detroit would love to have this final bull pen spot "problem" right now.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
Cheat just to make you happy. The sox will win 97 games this year and win the division. No playoff predictions yet. See anyone can blindly throw some numbers out there.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's your problem
You think these numbers are just blindly thrown out there. They're not.
I have an aptitude for this. I understand how 25 players fit together (or don't) to make the difference between an 80 and 86 win team.
I can't say the same thing for football or pro basketball, even though I'm a fan of both. I don't fully understand how the presence (or absence) of a player effects the overall performance of the club in those sports. The wins on the margins of those sports escape me, especially in the NBA. I could probably throw out some numbers for those sports, but they'd be no different than your 97 wins because Detroit has a bad bullpen prediction. And I have the good sense not to go around criticizing those who clearly have more ability to break down a team than do I.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what
so you read pecota, bill james, hbt, then you pretty much use that as your base... then sprinkle in a little bit of your own prediction. Big f'n deal. You are no "expert" why does your opinion mean any more than mine? The way you bitch and moan about this Wasserman Vs. Masset deal really makes you look foolish.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I forgot Zips
Everyones projections are blindly thrown out there. Name 1 projecting system that predicted the 2007 Rockies.... you sure as hell didn't.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If my opinion means nothing
you should feel no obligation to ever visit the site again. I never read Mariotti. I won't force you to force you to read an opinion you don't value above anyone else's.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just come here
to see what larry has to say.
But that's just me.
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
you should come here to read the cheat. he's smarter than me. i'm the gravy.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry, If you're the gravy
Is Cheat the turkey?
by RME JICO on Mar 30, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look
If you read my posts I said that sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don't. What is so hard to understand about that? Am I not allowed to disagree with you because it is your site? Are you that arrogant that you can not take criticism yourself?
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can take criticism, see 3e8 and Larry above
But you've spent the better part of an afternoon trying to diminish my opinion. So yeah, I take issue with that.
You can call it arrogance, but I know my White Sox... and by proxy the AL Central.. and to a lesser extent the rest of the AL... and a little less about the NL...
You brought up the Rox earlier. Well if the comments were more readily searchable right now, you could probably go back and find a discussion from last spring with us concluding that the Rox were about a year away. We got to see their young talent first hand thank to them bein in Tucson, and we thought Jimenez, Morales (who 3e8 really liked), Tulo (who everyone liked) and company were about a year off. It wan't surprising that it was that core leading the charge late. I'll gladly point out that I thought Ianetta (who flopped) was going to have a breakout season on the strength of what I saw from him in spring.
I'm not infallible. But diminishing my opinion as crap "thrown against the wall" says more about you than it does me.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Guy
Yeah - be that guy. This board needs it. But be prepared to go crazy. My advice is to log off now and enjoy the season.
Never forget to ask about
Matt Thorton
and
Boone Logan.
Also remember Jim Thome is far less injury prone than The Big Hurt. Everyone knows that.
Comonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn You White Sox!
by zokmaad on Mar 30, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is about stubborn pride.
Williams is out to show that getting Linebrink and Dotel will turn out to be a great move. Maybe, but if not. Why have Wasserman sitting in the bullpen if they fail. There trusting the veterans like MacDougal, Linebrink, and Dotel over a guy that was one of the few brite spots of 2006 and ST. This team needs a good start in April, if middle relief fails, and there the cause, then its time for Williams to go!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 2:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why does
nobody criticize SoxfaninAz's grammar? "There trusting veterans" you mean They're? Sorry Soxfaninaz they jumped all over me for writing "your" when it should have been "you're".
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your right! My grammar sucks!
Hope I did'nt screw that up! Dizzy Dean had lousy grammar, but everybody got the point!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am just kidding with you
Almost everyone here blasted me when I made a grammatical error.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny loves
hasbeen pitchers and HR hitters!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Guillen's opening day lineup -
Swisher, LF
Cabrera, SS
Thome, DH
Konerko, 1B
Dye, RF
Pierzynski, C
Ramirez, CF
Crede, 3B
Ozuna, 2B
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Mar 30, 2008 3:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like
Although I wonder why Ozuna is not leading off against CC. It doesn't matter though I look at Swish as a younger, stronger, better, Johnny Damon. So thank god we didn't trade Crede for Damon.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Damon and Swisher? About the only things they have in common is that they're both white.
by CWSKeith on Mar 30, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on now
they both played for oakland, too.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Long hair?
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
Next time, CWSKeith, do some research.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think before you post, man
Try it sometime.
Cheat -- was the ignore feature discussed? Or is that what Chiburb is alluding to below my post?
by CWSKeith on Mar 30, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lifetime OPS vs. CC.
Swisher, LF 0.962
Cabrera, SS 0.607
Thome, DH 0.214
Konerko, 1B 0.637
Dye, RF 1.012
Pierzynski, C 0.154
Ramirez, CF ---
Crede, 3B 0.428
Ozuna, 2B 0.990
Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?
by ballyb on Mar 30, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry where did you get that lineup from?
The link you posted says how Uribe is playing 2B and batting 9th, not Ozuna. Which makes this lineup brutal vs LHP.
by RME JICO on Mar 30, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
They are leading off for their respective teams.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 3:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cheat: where's that button I mentioned?
Next time, Bhoov, do some research.
by Chiburb on Mar 30, 2008 3:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
go to lonestarball and ask them...
They'll point you in the right direction...You'll need firefox though.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thx, but I have to use Safari
on my phone.
Oh well...
Next time, Bhoov, do some research.
by Chiburb on Mar 30, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Thome in the third spot against a lefty.
Personally i'd rather see him on the bench.
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 3:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
its opening day
and you cant bench a guy like thome
by Jbasic89 on Mar 30, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Because Thome is the most proven hitter you have.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they play...
it will be cold and possibly rainy, so throw your best out there and see what happens.
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Against lefties!
nothin but Sacred Cows!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not
Swisher CF
Cabrera SS
Dyr RF
Konerko 1B
Quentin Lf
Crede 3B
Ramirez DH
Ozuna 2b
AJ C
Let Ramirez just concentrate on hitting this guy!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am not going to lie
I bat AJ 9th in MLB 2k8... because he can't hit in that game.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Mar 30, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'd only
be in there cus i can't stand Toby Hall!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 4:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
KW is exacerbating his errors in spending by making roster decisions based on sunk costs. Fer chrissakes, even the fucking Astros cut bait and got rid of Woody Williams and ate his $6.25mm when it was obvious that he sucked and couldn't play anywhere. The CWS have Crede (Fields should be starting, not in friggin AAA), Uribe, Contreras, MacDougal, Ozuna, and Hall on this roster is because KW made a mistake in tying them up to a contract and now he doesn't want to get rid of them for nothing. Masset is on this roster because KW slobbered on his knob in public last year.
This what $118mm in payroll gets you? If I were JR I'd ask for a refund. I can't remember ever in my life being this fed up with the team - and the season hasn't even started. That is sad.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 30, 2008 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sad thing is
alot of sox fans will drink this Kool Aid!
by SoxfaninAZ on Mar 30, 2008 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sad thing is for some reason you two
Dont understand the difference between making a point and being ridiculous. Everything isn't a mistake. And your selective memory (Hall for instance) is funny.
And no Ozzie is not going to bench Thome in the season opener.
Fairfield and Kansas great game.
by Tdogg on Mar 30, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KW's just making bad decisions, plain and simple
KW's ego is getting in the way, and that doesn't bode well. There is no way you can justify this Masset over Wasserman thing, other than KW choosing to ignore all concrete evidence and keeping the guy around because he made some public comments that gave him a personal stake in seeing Masset succeed - to the detriment of the team. He really screwed the pooch with the Crede and Uribe signings too, he completely misread the market.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 30, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are different statements then what you
wrote above and other times. Its like to make a point you try to throw everything even untrue things into the mix. The Masset decision is awful.
by Tdogg on Mar 30, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
I've questioned his decisions this entire offseason. I didn't like the Uribe re-signing, and then I hated the OCab/Garland trade one week later - it just looked like the Angels dangled Cabrera under his nose and he just had to jump at it even though he just committed to his SS. And I didn't like the Crede re-signing because the only reason KW did it was because he thought Crede had some trade value and he'd be able to get rid of him in the spring to make room for the player who has nothing left to prove in AAA, Fields. I didn't like the Swisher trade because KW blew out the only good prospects left in the system to acquire him in order to field a team that had a remote chance of competing in 2008. And now that he does have a team that has a very remote chance of competing, he pulls this Masset/Waserman bullshit just to prove that his judgement is correct on Masset.
So what exactly is different about my statements? I've been consistent with my objections to these moves, all the way back to the Dye extension last June.
by ChicagoPete on Mar 30, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No you misunderstand me
I certainly understand your consistent criticism. My point is according to you everything is a mistake. Nothing is rational to you.
by Tdogg on Mar 30, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Throwing good money after bad is usually considered not rational
As I mentioned before, I think the worst thing that happened to the PRESENT team is having won the WS. I certainly can't prove it, but IMO there's no way these same moves would have been made in a vacuum.
Now pay attention to the Bill James interview, see the light!
by ChicagoPete on Mar 30, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does whitesox.com...
have Buehrle's picture/name up as the starting pitcher tomorrow? I thought it was going to be Javy. Did I really miss that altogether?
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Mar 30, 2008 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
apparently
javy was "starting" for like a day when beat reporters took ozzie's musings seriously.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BP's first crack at playoff percentage
for the sox: 7.7/4.5/12.2 [division/WC/overall]
keep the faith.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 5:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
Higher than I and prob most thought they would make it or do you think 1 in 10 is about right?
by Tdogg on Mar 30, 2008 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thinking about it for a second
one in ten is probably about right. i think bhoov and i had a conversation about this last year regarding the offseason and what to do in it and that's about where we (or at least i) were talking about the sox' chances being if they decided to make moves like sign hunter, etc. acquiring swisher is probably about the same sort of improvement and i think we were talking about a ten to fifteen percent chance of winning and whether that sort of chance was worth making trades and signings and so on.
the law of conservation of masset: no matter how much masset you use up, there is always masset in your system.
by larry on Mar 30, 2008 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill James on 60 Minutes in a few minutes.
Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?
by ballyb on Mar 30, 2008 6:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is he talking about global warming?
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shaved the beard, too.
Was that a ground out to 2nd for Owens?
by ballyb on Mar 30, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the chapelle guy?
I'm Rick James bitch!
by The Wizard on Mar 30, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was one of the
piss-your-pants funniest sketches ever.
Right up there with the "Does Wayne Brady gotta choke a bitch?" sketch.
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Tonight
Quote from Steve Phillips:
"The Tigers are going to score 1000 runs and be the best offense in the history of baseball."
Quote from Karl Ravich (after a Web-Gem by Nick Punto):
"Players like Nick Punto are why the Twins won't be going anywhere (i.e. will compete for a division title)."
I had to shut it off... John Kruk and Eric Young? I'm pretty sure EY has yet to string a sentence together in his time on ESPN.
by CWSKeith on Mar 30, 2008 6:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They're like Hawk to me now
I had it on, but I so easily tuned them out it, I didn't even notice.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Opened a gamethread for the American Soil opener
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Mar 30, 2008 7:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cool piece on Bill James
on 60 Minutes right now.
by onthemark12 on Mar 30, 2008 7:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, didn't see
the threads above. I apologize for the redundancy.
by onthemark12 on Mar 30, 2008 7:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone watching the Nationals game?
Joe Morgan on being inducted in the HOF:
"You always remember the guys you were inducted with."
The year is off to another brilliant start. Kind of a warm up for whatever gems DJ will spill tomorrow.
Share the passion, show the swagger, pray for the bullpen.
by tailgater on Mar 30, 2008 8:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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