Who's afraid of Greg Smith?
by The Cheat on Apr 14, 2008 11:24 PM CDT
in Recaps
111 comments
I can sympathize with the White Sox tonight.
I spent much of the first half of Monday's game struggling to complete a project which seemed easy at first. I actually started this afternoon, and thought I'd be done before I sat down for dinner and game time. But every time I added another element to the project, a White Sox Blog Index which contains updates from around the net, something would break. And then when I thought I had it working, I realized I'd have to make it work (and look pretty) across all browsers -- no easy feat with the two available content widths and the criminally terrible IE 6 still being used by far too many of you.
The Sox, on the other hand, were faced with the seemingly easy task of taking on a young lefty, who wasn't even on the 40-man roster at this time last week, making his second major league start. Greg Smith, that's what they call him, was the least heralded of the 5 players sent to Oakland in the Dan Haren trade, the type who should seem, at least on paper, to be an easy victory. But Smith had little trouble taming the "top offense" in the AL, using the deadly combination of a changeup to keep runners off the bases and a balk disguised as a pick-off move to get rid of them once they got there.
Once Smith was chased, the Sox mounted two small offensives. Alan Embree, who threw 87% fastballs last season, wiped out the first one, striking out Jim Thome, who will get the day off tomorrow as the Sox face their third lefty in a row, on 4 straight breaking balls. Huston street took care of the second push, throwing all but one pitch off the outside corner of the plate. I've included MLB Gameday screencaps from Konerko, Quentin, and Crede's 9th inning at-bats for reference.
- Kurt Suzuki, who's no Donny Lucy, went 4-4. Nope, I'm never gonna stop with that one.
- Had the Sox have won the game, Nick Swisher would have been the lead story. He reached base in each of his first three trips to the plate, and gave one a ride in the 8th inning, shaving another few days off Hawk's life in the process.
- Emil Brown had a heckuva game as well. There were three balls hit to left field that I thought were doubles off the bat, and he held the Sox to singles on each occasion. He drove in the what proved to be the game winning run as well.
- Certified Sox killer Mike Sweeney's double came immediately after he popped up two pitches, the first of which is an out if the Sox have a first baseman with average to above average range.
- Boone Logan, pitching without that small woodland creature on his chin, was lights out cleaning up a typical Mike MacDougal mess. Logan struck out the two lefties he faced on a total of 7 pitches.
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Low and Away attack
This has been a bane to our team for years. When the sox handle guys like this, they drive that low and away pitch to right field and force him to come in. However, be it the cold, or the fact that the A's don't motivate them enough. They decided to flail away at crap out of the zone away. Its like they never have seen this approach before. Joe Mays formula lives on.
Uribe needs to go when this season is over. I could care less how defensive Profundo is, he is a walking train wreck at the plate. He cannot control himself. His approach at the plate, is the same as a 3 year old jacked up on sugar. Hyper and spastic.
On a personal note, the Jim Beam suites are pimp as hell. It made the loss a bit more manageable.
by southsideirish71 on Apr 14, 2008 11:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Uribe needed to go before the season started...
For some strange reason, people are back to defending him and his Tasmanian Devil ways. I don’t understand it. Just because he looks good at 2B defensively doesn’t mean we should keep his spinarooni ass in the lineup. He is pathetic at the plate. He swings as hard as he can at high fastballs that he undercuts by a foot. The guy has only one plate approach - trying to swing out of his shoes for a “¡PROFUNDO!” so he can tell Farmer that he called it. Going to right field my ass - Uribe only hits one to right field when he is late starting his Taz spin on a fastball. I read a blurb somewhere (maybe Rotoworld.com?) about how scouts were saying that Uribe is pretty much just guessing on every pitch and swinging as hard as he can based on whether or not he thinks a fastball is coming. Not the type of guy I want anywhere near my lineup.
by SSH2005 on Apr 15, 2008 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And who would you have at second base then?
Ozuna?
Ramirez?
No thanks. I’ll take Uribe’s solid defense and occasional offensive production.
"I'll bring the awesome." -The 'Swish'
by Hazymania on Apr 15, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two things
1) Could I get bigger play on the blog index?
2) I'm glad to see you mention Donny Lucy. Thought we had an impostor on our hands.
I actually think Juan has made a better effort to go to right field. But hey.
by Sox Machine on Apr 14, 2008 11:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ah, we've thrown less links your way since the move to the new platform
I almost never link out anymore. (And it has nothing to do with lack of quality content, and everything to do with my laziness) That's why I like fanshots. I don't have to do anything but click a couple buttons.
I got an email from the trib's top blogs writer wanting "to know more about my site" I emailed him back "wanting to know more about how he put his list together"
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Apr 14, 2008 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
My first time to the park this season and obviously a bit of a disappointment. Then again, 5th row first base line tickets for $12 wasn't too bad.
But two things were very telling about this team and the fans this year.
1) People love Joe Crede. The reception he is getting (and I assume it was bigger than normal today based off the slam the previous day) is not translating to TV at all.
2) I heard about 5 different variations from fans leaving the game saying "at least the games/team are/is fun again." 10 hits and 1 run is really frustrating, but the fact that the team is back to at least putting up a fight is nice. Over the past two years when we face new pitchers or just pitchers who were shutting us down a bit it looked like the team could give a shit to finish out the game. And I'm actually very much a "numbers guy," but that doesn't mean I don't like to see that scrappy attitude...even if it doesn't get the win every time.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 14, 2008 11:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
few things
MLB.tv was giving me trouble, so I listened to Boone's 8th inning and watched the bottom of the 9th.
1.) Why was MacDougal pitching in the 8th in a 1 run ball game?
2.) I was frustrated with Quentin's final at bat. He watched the first slider go for ball 1 and then swung at the same pitch 3 times in a row to strike out.
3.) I found myself with that circa 05-06 confidence when Crede was up in the 9th.
by shaftr on Apr 15, 2008 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Quentin
Those pitches were exactly the ones that the AZ posters over at baseballthinkfactory said he had big trouble with when on the DBacks. Not to go all melodramatic, but I think this is a watershed moment for Quentin. Scouts saw that at-bat, and I would imagine that he'll start seeing the low and away slider a lot more. His ability to adjust will determine if his start was just a bump from switching leagues or if he really is an impact hitter in the bigs.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 15, 2008 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is this a watershed moment
Just about every pitcher has attacked the sox low and away. Its the constant formula for our right handers to get themselves out. Quentin is just one of many on the team that has a problem with that pitch. The only difference, is that Quentin shows enough patience usually to lay off that pitch. Its a hard moment, game on the line men on in the 9th.
by southsideirish71 on Apr 15, 2008 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've probably seen more games than I have
I hadn’t seen Quentin get a steady diet of low and away sliders until tonight. I was thinking perhaps tonight would mark a change in how Quentin is pitched to in the AL, but maybe not….
by hitlesswonder on Apr 15, 2008 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A good low and away slider from a RHP is going to give just about every RHB problems
It’s not just Quentin. About all you can do with it is lay off of it, you’re not going to do much with it even if you do hit it. Crede had a good approach on his AB, he tried going up the middle at least but hit it right back to the pitcher.
Not every pitcher can throw that pitch, Street has one of the best.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not a watershed moment
Q was facing one of the best closers (when healthy) in the game. He had a poor AB. It happens.
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
by BoKnows on Apr 15, 2008 8:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
I was standing up as soon as I saw MacDougal coming out for the 8th yelling "lets not put our least reliable pitcher in a 1 run game!" Someone turned around and said "MacDougal is the man! He'll do fine"
Needless to say I was right.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2008 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gave Logan a chance to look good...
So, I think Boone is arriving as a major league relief pitcher. I'm disproportionately happy that the Sox minor league system has produced a useful relief pitcher.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 15, 2008 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those last two AB's by Quentin and Crede...
were about as bad as it gets. Once Street got Quentin to swing at that first slider low and away, he never stopped throwing it. He knew that the Sox would keep swinging at it and he made both Quentin and Crede look like scrubs.
And Crede is falling back to the norn after a hot start—back to the pop-ups.
by SSH2005 on Apr 15, 2008 3:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sunday - double and a grand slam, league lead in RBI's
Monday – hitless and “falling back to the norm” – still the leader in RBI’s.
Who says baseball fans are impatient and fickle?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 5:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't respond because I thought he HAD to be kidding
right?
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
by Chiburb on Apr 15, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This game just shows me
that we desperatly need JO back and leading off.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 8:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Fishing??????
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
by BoKnows on Apr 15, 2008 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you watch the game
After I left the game, some Jerry Owens fan called into the postgame and said how the game needed speed. My thoughts on this was that the guy didnt watch the game. We had Swisher get on base with Cabrera all night long. And for your speed comment, you must of missed when Swisher “used his speed” to advance from 1st to 3rd on a single. How about smart aggressive baserunning with a guy who constantly gets on base trumps the track star who can’t get on base. We have a leadoff hitter getting on at a .400 clip and the people who are convinced that we were a small ball team at some point want him replaced.
Our leadoff guy and our number 2 hitter were onbase 5 out of a possible 8 times. If you want to blame someone for the 2-1 loss. Try the 3-4-5 crew. They had plenty of people on base. Just not so good at driving them in yesterday.
by southsideirish71 on Apr 15, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher can still be usefull batting 5th or 6th
and probably even more valuable. No I didn’t listen to the post game but this offense has laid some eggs when it comes to manufacturing runs. Plus Q has been decent so far but he has really looked over matched at times. I am just saying late in games we could replace Q with JO and possibly manufacture a run… something we are unable to do right now.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Replacing Quentin with Owens
Is probably one of the oddest things I have seen proposed. I would only use owens late in a game as a pinch runner for say Thome, Konerko or Dye. Quentin was overmatched against Street last night, but I haven’t seen him overmatched against anyone else. Quentin gets deep into the count, and puts good contact on the ball. Owens is a one trick pony with a bad groin. We have seen how the groinless speed demon works as a cog on the team before.
Manufacturing a run is when you cant get anyone on base, and need to scratch and claw yourself into a run scoring position. That is not what this team needs. We need better situational hitting over a speed guy laying down a bunt or stealing a base. If our 3-4-5 hit with the men on, we would of scored 6 last night.
by southsideirish71 on Apr 15, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean
like last night? When our thumpers are not hitting we need another threat we can use against them. I am not saying bench Q for Owens… We don’t even know what Owens can do just yet. He could be a speedster lead-off m an with a 350+ obp and a threat to steal 50-60 bases. Or he could be a huge piece of shit (which I don’t believe he is) and suck ass.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't exactly know what you are trying to accomplish with Owens in the lineup
Swisher got on, and was in scoring position. In fact his aggressive running was the reason you scored the only run of the game. I don’t know how Owens in the lineup would of made any difference. You realize that the pitcher was a lefty and owens doesn’t exactly get on base against lefties right. Unless you think Owens is stealing home, you realize that the 3-4-5 has to hit the ball to score the run right?
by southsideirish71 on Apr 15, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd believe the latter and not the former.
"I'll bring the awesome." -The 'Swish'
by Hazymania on Apr 15, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Few Observations
1. Is it just me or is any ball hit in between Dye, Konerko and Uribe in foul or fair territory – always going to drop? It is like the bermuda triangle out there. I haven’t seen that many fat/slow people running towards something since I left one of my Krispy Kreme’s at the counter last weekend.
2. Can Mike MacDougal please throw a first pitch strike? Or at least a second pitch strike? He is constantly behind 2-0.
3. Boone Logan is a stud against lefties OR righties.
4. Lastly, why the F*CK is Thome starting against lefties?! He looked like a little leaguer last night.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 15, 2008 8:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Mac
was getting squeezed pretty bad…
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw a couple that
were borderline. But the bottom line is he almost never gets a first or second pitch strike. He is always behind in the count…and he doesn’t ahve the stuff to come back from that.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 15, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
he is horse shit.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4.
what the hell happend to Thome in general? Time to unload him… put Fields at first… and DH Konerko.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Might as well deal Konerko then as well
He’s been sucking too.
Back up the truck!
by hitlesswonder on Apr 15, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Thome needs to sit against lefties. He had a great game against CC…but that is it.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 15, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thome...
...is going to be a streak hitter from here on in his career. He will look brutal for a few weeks than get hot for a few. In a way that is true of all players but I think it is doubly true for a guy like Thome who is getting up in age. I’d still rather have him up in major situations (8th inning of last nights game) than pretty much any of the available options on the bench to hit from him.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree he should sit against LHP
I just thought “time to unload him” was a little bit over-the-top.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 15, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Konerko's hitting...
a lot better than Thome is.
Take out Opening Day, and Thome’s batting .125/.222/.175, for an awesome OPS of .397.
This is more than just a mild slump. Thome looks screwed up six ways from Sunday. It looks like he’s guessing up there, and pitchers are starting to look more confident against him.
Maybe he’ll snap out of it, but it’s time to start thinking about at least dropping him down in the order until he figures things out.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya see, feisty, he's caught in between
he just looks like he doesn’t have a plan. and you gotta have a plan. and it’s better to have a bad plan than, he he, no plan at all.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ozzie
needs to give Thome more days off and move Konerko or Dye to DH on occassion. At least until Thome starts swinging the bat better.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 15, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sheesh
I was just saying if it’s time to unload Thome, then the Sox have a few other players to get rid of. Like their .780 OPS first baseman. And maybe their .700 OPS LF. And probably Buehrle who has a pretty bad ERA.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 15, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about unloading him...
he has a no-trade anyway, but I don’t know if he should be the #3 hitter any more.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thome would have quite a lot of competition on the trade market
if thome is on the block for sucking for twelve games, one would have to think then giambi and ortiz are, too. teams are always looking to unload players with track records of success twelve games into a slump. it’s really a wise decision.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am just saying
I would rather see Fields at first… Konerko at DH and Thome gone than see Crede gone and we still have Thome.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Fields who is sucking mud at AAA?
THAT Fields? Are you serious? Take a deep breath and calm down. We’re early yet, we’re doing surprisingly well, and you want to overhaul the lineup? Take it easy.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Sucking mud"?
Fields is batting .316/.409/.474 right now. It takes a lot to impress you.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thome
looks done in my opinion. He was up there guessing alright… GUESSING WRONG! He looked like Juan Uribe waving at those sliders.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
players always look "done" when they're slumping
considering how he looked last season, especially over the second half, and in spring training, i’m finding it rather hard to believe that he’s “done.”
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
He’s not done. But, he is slumping pretty badly. He needs to be out of the lineup a little more until he breaks out of it. Or at least moved down to the #5 hole…a guy with his stats right now should not be batting 3rd everyday.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 15, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he's not done
He’ll get hot again and the world will be back in order. But the depth and severity of this slump is a pretty good indicator that you probably can’t count on him for massive Thome #’s anymore. This is yet another guy that we’re paying a lot of money to, and we’re going to see him run out the clock on our time. There’s nothing to be had for him in trade anyway, so all you can do is keep paying him and hope his production doesn’t completely crater.
We’re in the same boat with Paulie, JD and AJ. These guys have no trade value, so we better hope they produce. If they don’t we’re totally screwed.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is guessing...
...but all hitters do that sometimes. When you’re slumping you look to bust out of it by getting a few hits. So you press and you hope that you can guess what the next pitch is going to be so you can drive it.
Konerko looked “done” back in ‘03 when he couldn’t hit anything for the better part of the season. But once he figured things out…well…we all were around for the last few years.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's so much that he's guessing
He’s not hitting fastballs even when he’s looking fastball. That’s the cause for concern. It’s not like pitchers are being cute with him with junk and breaking balls, they’re just coming right at him with heat – thus, no walks.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes -- that's what I was trying to say
I guess my writing was too elliptical for some people.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 15, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you JRE
these guys don’t watch the games they watch stats.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 15, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold on now...
I agree that he’s slumping badly, and I’m known for not being a big Jim Thome supporter, but I don’t think it’s time to cut him loose. I don’t even think he should be benched, although I do think the team should start giving him a day or two off a week.
I just think that it’s time to stop considering him the centerpiece of the offense.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still, I can’t help but cringe when I see that one of the key lessons of sabermetrics—that small samples of baseball are not valuable analytically—has made such little penetration into the mainstream. That Philip Hughes has had two bad starts, or David Ortiz two bad weeks, or that the Diamondbacks swept the Rockies, just doesn’t mean a whole lot for what those entities will do going forward. We have more information than that, and whether the new information runs counter to our beliefs or supports them, it’s important that we keep it in perspective.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7368
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
watch the games and stop frequenting stat sites.
Somebody's shoved a red-hot poker up our ass, and I want to know whose name is on the handle!
by Toonderstrook on Apr 15, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fucking seamheads
messing with my mind.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on the small sample sizes
But there really is serious cause for concern with Thome. He’s getting a lot of fastballs, as evidenced by his low walk rate. And he’s not hitting the fastball with any authority, as evidenced by his low line drive rate.
If they were giving him a steady diet of breaking stuff it would be a different story. But they’re coming after him like he’s Erstad, and he’s hitting like Erstad.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really think that the low walk rate is indicative of getting nothing but fastballs. I can’t pull up gameday at the moment but I think he’s been seeing a lot of sliders while expecting fastballs and has been missing them.
You guys are reading way too much into a very small amount of games. Does he need a few days on the bench? Sure…it can’t hurt. But trust me…if pitchers are going to start trying to beat him with the fastball on a consistent basis he is going to start launching them into the bleachers.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a lot easier to control a fastball than offspeed or breaking balls
If he starts launching a few of them again they’ll back off of him and he’ll start drawing his walks, his OBP will go back up and all will be right with the world. But till he starts launching them…
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thome situation
Larry, what do you recommend be done with the Thome situation?
Let him ride out the slump at the #3 spot everyday?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 15, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't see much difference between #3 and #5
leave him where he is. obviously he should not be facing (m)any lefty starters. i don’t mind him facing one if it’s a two days in a row type thing – keeping him out of the lineup for two straight days probably isn’t a good idea either.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think maybe moving AJ up to #3 and dropping Thome down to six is a possibility?
Just until Thome starts to see the ball a little better. Or do you think AJ’s current level of production is partly a product of his spot in the lineup?
"I'll bring the awesome." -The 'Swish'
by Hazymania on Apr 15, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wouldn't want AJ batting #3
i think everyone knows how i feel about lineup machinations. this early in the season, i’m not sure there’s a need to be overthinking it. chasing trends usually isn’t a good idea this early in the season because you’re usually doing just that: chasing. may 15 is the date i’d be looking at for a serious assessment of where players are and aren’t and then do some tweaking over the ensuing couple weeks. before that it just wreaks of panic moves.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
"I'll bring the awesome." -The 'Swish'
by Hazymania on Apr 15, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And when are we permanently wedded to Paulie?
May 15th?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thereabouts
we’re already “permanently” wedded because it’s rather unlikely that a team would make a major trade before june 1. it simply is not done. such things are panic moves.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about his trade refusal rights?
Doesn’t he get those in May?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Jim, April 30:
http://soxmachine.com/blogs/meet_the_sox/articles/12063.aspx
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
by Chiburb on Apr 15, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think...
the Sox are even considering trading Konerko. They place a lot of value in his intangibles.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a little late in the day
to be rejiggering your roster that much. what’s the replacement, owens for konerko? awful.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you'll see more, ahem, rest days for Thome vs. LHPs
I think Ozzie learned a lesson last night. In hindsight he would’ve liked to have had Thome coming off the bench in the 9th against that nasty slider of Street’s in a high leverage situation than to see him take his ofer vs. an LHP starter.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what hindsight is for
ozzie wouldn’t have pinch-hit for any of those guys who were up anyway. and with good reason.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quentin was overmatched
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still wouldn't have pinch hit for him
and it’s not like thome has had much more success with street. and if he’s sucking as much as you say he is and has “major issues” i don’t know why you would have, either.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no LHB on the bench
Even with Thome struggling, he has a better chance against a pitcher like that than a Quentin, Crede or Uribe.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uribe didn't bat
he would’ve been the man for whom thome should PH. the rest, like i said, if he sucks right now as much as you say he does, the sox should stick to the other guys.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of sucking
I’ll be at the game keeping a close eye on your BFF OCab.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good for you
i’ll remember to let you know when i care about your opinion. which is probably the same point where you’ll let me know when you care about mine.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hear hear
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
maybe Brian Anderson, but we all know how much you hate him.
Also (and this is somewhat off-topic), they’ve got to do something with Alexei Ramirez. Either put him in the lineup or send him down. He’s doing nobody any good sitting on the bench.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, i hate him jerry. good one.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kidding.
I hate using emoticons, but maybe I should start using them more often.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, and on record as stating so
Just wanted clarification. Even JR brought it up in January, chuckling. (As in, “Yeah, right, we’re going to trade the first playoff hero in 88 years in Chicago.”)
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watching Ortiz start yesterday at 3-43 for the year
is a fine example of how a small sample size might not translate to a “career over”. Even at his age, Ortiz is a keeper. Has he “lost it” because he hit a certain age threshold? Damn, Paulie ended up last year with about his career average season stats after being horrible for 3 months. JD and AJ are a year older and are on fire, especially compared to the crap they were bringing to the batter’s box most of last year. Didn’t Jeter have a 1-40 stretch a few years ago?
Ease up. 2-3 weeks does not a trend make. Or perhaps the Twins should dump Liriano becuase he’s struggling in his return to pitching – I guess that means he’s “toast”.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with the first
paragraph. Liriano is totally different – coming back from Tommy John surgery.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 15, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thome will be 38 in August, Ortiz is 32
There’s no comparison.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So between
last season/spring training and opening day he officially “got old?” I don’t buy it. Slumps happen. He is old…I’m not debating that. I’m simply saying that I don’t think that he went from what he was to so bad that he shouldn’t even be hitting in about 10 days.
Contributing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Apr 15, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course there is a comparison
Whether or not you think it is valid is the issue.
BTW, I (the psychologist of this group) beleive I have the answer – Jim’s a proud pappa again this past November. It means he has a brand new son who is 5 months old. He probably hasn’t slept in a half a year.
The Liriano example was highlighting a small sample size. Both Thomer and Liriano might be high on the “watch list” – one because of age, one because of injury. Since both have immense talent the leash might be a little longer than an unproven guy.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't Konerko's terrible season...
the year he got married?
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
women weaken the knees
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As someone who recently went through that...
I can understand how wedding preparations would negatively impact one’s work performance.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Not succinct, but accurate.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'm just naive
But I’d think a lot of the stress an average person goes through, would not even be relative for a guy making 10 million plus a year. I would assume he has people to take care of those kind of things. He just has to show up and say I do.
by Grinder in Training on Apr 15, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hire a fluffer for honeymoon night, etc
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup, you're naive
“people” don’t take care of these things completely. the wife does. and the wife involves you. and when you make $10M, i’m betting the wedding is slightly more elaborate than yours or mine.
at any rate, i’m not sure why wedding stress would affect work much if you have the ability to compartmentalize things. but maybe he can’t.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why God invented the road trip in his infinite wisdom
Ever notice at work that it’s always the married guys who find out some way to be out traveling on business all the night. And it goes up exponentially based on the number of kids at home.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How are yours holding up, larry? ;)
BTW, I read that Citadel is sniffing around Centro Properties. My wife is a marketing VP there. Daddy needs (wants) wifey to keep working for a few more years. Wave your wand and make it so, sir.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 15, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure there is
plenty of sluggers have fallen big-time starting around 31-32. thinking of boston and ortiz, a guy like vaughn immediately comes to mind. thome’s older sure but the risk of collapse, considering how long thome has lasted at a high level of production, is probably not markedly higher than ortiz’.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Paulie fit in there?
He’s a lot more likely to crater than Ortiz.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 15, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Konerko...
has always been considered a high risk for collapse by those who study trends. He’s got “old player” skills (good power, poor defensive and baserunning ability), and supposedly guys with his skill set don’t tend to age gracefully.
I remember that he signed his contract extension just a couple of months before Derrek Lee (who’s basically the same age as Konerko) did, and the consensus was that Lee was a much better bet to produce through the life of the contract.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
consensus ain't looking too good so far
missing those 100 games or whatever puts him far behind PK.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far, yes...
although that wrist injury was something of a fluke.
I actually argued with Cub fans about that at the time. A lot of them thought the Konerko extension was foolish and the Lee extension was great.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 15, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was nothing wrong with the consensus thinking
playing the odds, they were right. but them’s the breaks. literally.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure
i think once you get to about age 32 and you have the skill set that guys like thome, ortiz, giambi, konerko, and so on have, that chance becomes far more salient and is there every year. some guys will be fine – thome obviously is one of those – but others (like the vaughn example) will collapse. since PK’s level of production isn’t quite as high as those other guys i mentioned, the chance of him becoming a “worthless” player (i.e., like a 100 OPS+, bad for a 1B/DH) is probably higher than a guy like ortiz who would be coming down from a higher level of production.
somewhere in arizona, jerry owens silently weeps.
by larry on Apr 15, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a tough game to watch. Also, it would be nice if Joe decides to keep up his homer happy ways.
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Apr 15, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Headshaker during last night's game
I think it was last night’s game, at least. Hawk and DJ were talking about how Pierzynski faired against lefties, and Hawk goes: “For the most part, AJ has never really struggled against lefties.”
Of course, I know that’s complete foo-ey, but I wanted my eyes to see his career .648 OPS versus lefties.
Also… fuck MLB.tv. The service has been absolutely brutal this year. Last night was more of the same BS… I think it’s time to write them a strongly-worded letter to Mr. Selig.
by CWSKeith on Apr 15, 2008 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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