Game 17: White Sox (10-6) @ Rays (7-10)
by The Wizard on Apr 19, 2008 5:00 PM CDT
in Game Threads
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PrintChicago White Sox at Tampa Bay Rays, Apr 19, 2008 6:10 PM CDT
Mark Buehrle (LHP) vs. Andy Sonnanstine (RHP)
Time: 6:10 p.m. CT, TV: WGN, Radio: WSCR AM-670 (B-R preview, Live Boxscore; 2007 MLB Gameday; 2008 MLB Gameday)
GO SOX!
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Like the lineup....
Last night we survived a Pablo start, getting a rest for Crede….tonight Alexei gets a shot and Jermaine gets a day off….good.
When is Uribe getting a night off
For such a crappy hitter, he can’t get replaced. How about letting Ramirez give Profundo the night off and let Anderson rome in center. Kenny needs to make sure that Uribe is off the roster next year. It s the only way to keep Ozzie from playing him.
by southsideirish71 on Apr 19, 2008 5:49 PM CDT reply actions
Quentin on the pregame show...
yikes. I’m glad he lets his play do the talking most of the time.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:12 PM CDT reply actions
what he say?
How do you fuck a nut?!
by omnipotent grab on Apr 19, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Me like football.
Me like baseball.
Me like basketball.
Me look like Lou Ferrigno.
by ReservoirDog on Apr 19, 2008 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
DJ asked him about...
playing baseball, basketball, and football in high school and why he chose baseball. His answer was long and boring. He chose baseball because he had the best chance to succeed and you don’t get killed physically.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Indeed.
It kind of sounds like “Lost” going to commercial. Every five seconds.
by ReservoirDog on Apr 19, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
1000x better than thunder sticks.
I don’t mind the horns. I like the horns and drums in Oakland too.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice move from Buehrle.
Right before that I was thinking “just get this guy off the basepath Mark”.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:25 PM CDT reply actions
MB with 89 mph heat!
that’ll work if he locates it well.
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
That knee was moving forward.
I’d like for them to pay for their free bases from now on.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:39 PM CDT reply actions
That's freakin' Cabrera.
He got the ball and stopped to toss it. Then didn’t really seem to be expecting it back.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:40 PM CDT reply actions
i think it was paulie's fault initially.
he should make the throw toward second earlier instead of running him toward second. as soon as gomes took off, konerko should have thrown it, uribe then would have been able to chase him down on his retreat to first or make the second throw back to konerko. at least that way if you blow it, he’s still only on first.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know much about that kind of play...
because it’s usual not a problem for anyone but DJ kept saying Paulie has to run him down. He was saying that after the one that worked too.
I don’t care whose fault it is, that shit has to be fixed yesterday.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions
konerko and uribe both made the mistake of running the guy at the next base.
obviously, you’d rather have one or two throws, but you don’t make an extra-special effort to run him to the next base. force him to go back!!!
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmmm.
What, you just play catch from base to base? Why is it called a ‘run down’ then? Not that I know anything about the play but I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying about Paulie running after him at first. That’s exactly what DJ was praising earlier. And DJ IS ALWAYS RIGHT.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions
no, you don't just throw it base to base.
but once gomes committed to going to second, like he did right when paulie caught the ball, paulie should have thrown it immediately to second. most, if not all, of the running, should be forcing the runner to either retreat toward the base he came from or to have one of your quicker middle infielders be close enough to tag him in no man’s land between, in this case, first and second.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
in the play we just saw, for instance,
if uribe chased him too long toward first and threw late to paulie, gomes would have still been on first. still unfortunate when you pick a guy off, but much more desirable to picking off a guy and having him actually gain another base in the process.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Alright, guys.
Time to get this damn third out.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:43 PM CDT reply actions
Geez...
Buerle is serving some tasty dinner to the chumps…
3-0 bad guys
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Hawk:
“Rays get three…gift…runs just given to them.”
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:50 PM CDT reply actions
he just blamed Juan too.
I agree…Juan should have thrown it quicker
Yeah, looking there...
Juan should’ve thrown instead of double clutching. Don’t know why he did that.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I remember now...
this is one of the guys who got the Rays fans pizza last year.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:51 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah...that's right, he did!
Wonder if they’d trade us Bartlett for Uribe…? :-)
The rundown was awful,
but Buehrle’s command, which he almost pitched over prior to the rundown, is awful so far. You can’t be tossing up 84 mph pitches with no movement or beneficial location.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
Melvin Emmanual Upton?
So, uh…how’d he earn the B.J. nickname?
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 6:57 PM CDT reply actions
hahahhaa
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Alexi looked like he needs to be in Charlotte
he was lost on that ball and could have reached it.
Time to get back to the NBA Playoffs, I think.
Suns/Spurs was much more exciting than anything the Sox are likely to provide with Sandy Sonnenfax on the mound.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 7:14 PM CDT reply actions
Ramirez
Drifts on the ball instead of running to proper position, he caught the sac fly moving backwards (not that he had any chance)
I am late to comment on the rundown
or lack of same, but I blame Uribe who tried to run him into second only to give it up too late for Cabrera to make the tag. These little problems that should have resolved in spring training, once again. Now they should practice rundowns, calling pop-ups, base-running, bunting , hitting to the opposite field . Do not ask Walker how to do these things ask Swisher.
Solved in Spring Training?
I’d go back a little further than that.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions
I was wondering about that too.
Hahahhahahaha.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Is MLB.com having problems?
the Sox game shows us in the 2nd inning. I had MLB.com last year and would not have it again.
wow...nice piece of hitting by toby. can't remember the last time i could say that.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
and then swish kills it.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
i don't think i saw sonnanstine last year, but what i see today and looking at his numbers, the sox should be hitting him much better.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice word choice
since The Tribe does not believe in absolution.
Even on a Sat. night, glass of wine in hand, you are the definition of precision.
I took the "under".
Wine?
You sir, are not living the High Life.
by ReservoirDog on Apr 19, 2008 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions
whiskey on the rocks
go hard or don’t go at all.
somewhere in baseball purgatory, jerry owens loudly whines.
Dallas 52 -40 at the half NBA
we can still come back in Tampa
scoring inning coming now
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
multiples
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
That's why AJ is out tonight!?
So he can wrestle later!!!?
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 7:40 PM CDT reply actions
Is AJ not in because:
1. Wresting pre-game?
2. Visited family in Orlando in the AM and decided to spend the night?
I took the "under".
are you sure he's not in Orlando
wrestling Mrs. WU?
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
She's snugly in bed. Yes, before 9.
On a Saturday night. The Sox are not the only ones scoreless this evening.
:)
Of course, hearing about 3000 years of oppression, enslavement, and bitter herbs and tears isn’t really the foreplay one wants.
I took the "under".
oppression? enslavement? tears? something bitter?
sounds like foreplay to me.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
she's just adding to the misery
to make your holy day more authentic.
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
The Sox have barred AJ from participating
Rumor was he was had a “match” in place with Johnny Gomes.
Hall is behind the bump because his throwing deficiencies can be hidden by Buehrle
AIM: SouthSideCheat
and Ozzie wants AJ in the day game tomorrow
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
Our impatience will cost us
we need to disrupt the rhythm of the Tampa pitcher similar to when the opposition disriputs Buerhl’s rhythm when he is going well and pitching quickly.
you can't really do that if i a guy is hitting his spots and throwing 2/3 of his pitches for strikes.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
yes, because he blows. but you can't be patient with a guy who is throwing strike after strike.
you actually have to hit the ball instead of drawing walks.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
just curious
what made you think he blows?
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
you have access to better information than i do, so i'll ask you
what makes you think he’s good? every projection i’m looking at has him being a less than average starting pitcher this season.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions
i have no idea what projections you're using
i just looked at BP to make sure i’m not insane and they have him projected at a WHIP of 1.30. he will be very good. you’re going to get flashes of very nice pitching from a player with his talents. the sox aren’t good tonight but andy’s been pretty good himself.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
whatever projections are on fangraphs (bill james, chone, zips, etc.)
and because he doesn’t walk anybody, even a 1.30 WHIP projects to over a hit per inning, which means he pitches to contact and has to get whacked around a bit (see home runs against and not insane BABIP against).
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
sure
he was dealing tonight. that happens with these guys. we have a guy on our team who does the same thing sometimes. i’m not sure why this type of performance would be a surprise to a sox fan.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
i was pissed and said he "blows." i exaggerated. but aside from that,
there is nothing incorrect about the assertion that he SHOULD be getting hit. he gives up a lot of home runs (white sox specialities) and over a hit per inning in his big league career.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
there is rarely a pitcher who
SHOULDN’T be getting hit. but guys with good stuff sometimes accomplish it, due to themselves, the other team, or some combination thereof. welcome to baseball.
and i have serious issues with using hits per inning for a young pitcher with one of the worst defenses ever behind during that small sample. but i’ll leave that for another discussion.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
except
if those past numbers are a 1.00 WHIP in the minors and a very good k/bb rate last year, to go along with a respectable WHIP, who was fucked over repeatedly by a poor tampa defense.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
in this game, nobody's even hit the ball hard enough to force the defense to do shit.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions
that would go along with that whole 1.0 WHIP history
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
yes, fine, we should be getting 2 hit and shut out by a guy with a career 1.40 WHIP.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions
there are much worse pitchers to suck against
than him
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
it doesn't matter...a guy's gotta get his first major league complete game shutout against somebody, i guess.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions
We're famous for scoring meaningless runs
in the 9th to make it close. Wait for it.
I took the "under".
His numbers this year
seemed almost as good, if not better, as Buehrle except a few more hits went over the wall.
I took the "under".
You dont' have to convince me, I'm a Sonnanstine fan
But Toonder saw the ERA north of 8 this year and maybe last year’s ERA with Tampa and concluded he blows. Anyone watching the game tonight can see he’s dealing
yes, i saw his bad era against major league hitters and 23 home runs against in 146 innings and assumed he wasn't the second coming of sandy koufax.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
fine, let's go with that.
he had a below average rookie season and an even worse start to his second. so where in there does he become cy young?
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Not Cy Young...
but he put up good peripherals last year, and so far this year as well. It looks like he’s been pretty unlucky (read: had bad defense behind him) on balls in play. He also put up pretty terrific numbers in the minors.
If he can keep the ball in the park and gets even mediocre defense behind him, he’ll be a fine major league pitcher.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 19, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
You're the one calling him crap
I never likened him to Koufax or Cy Young. It would’ve been nice to mount something resembling an offensive attack but he didn’t make any mistakes
Maybe he isnt crap
But if you are telling me that he is 3 hit shutout complete game material then I suggest you are stretching it a bit.
by southsideirish71 on Apr 19, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
you mean the guy with 4 CG SO while in the minors?
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
He's no worse than Gavin Floyd...
and Floyd has done pretty much the same thing over his past couple of starts.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 19, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions
he was good tonight. better than he ever has been it appears.
but the bats looked lifeless and clueless (i.e. ramirez following a pitcher’s first walk of the game by flailing at two offspeed pitches out of the zone).
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Consider the source on that one
Alexei isn’t known for his plate discipline yet.
I took the "under".
plate discipline, what?
it’s approach. like as in, oh shit, he finally walked somebody, maybe i should go up to the plate and not swing out of my shoes on the first pitch unless its the kind of pitch i hit the shit out of…like a mistake fastball.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:22 PM CDT up reply actions
His approach does not include that
thought process. Which is maybe why he needs some work in Charlotte. I wouldn’t hold Alexei as a representation of the whole team, especially one with as high of a OBP as we had coming into this game.
I took the "under".
that was one example.
i actually did get a chance to see the entire game. they had nothing. how much was due to sonnanstine and how much was due to the bats having an off day i don’t know.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd look at Cheat's comment below,
subtract AJ and JD, and begin to get concerned.
But Sonny-boy had a good night. It happens.
I took the "under".
woah, there
how did he have a below average rookie season? 1.35 WHIP is above average. that k/bb ratio is bordering on stellar. looking at the wrong stats if those are below average.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
Win Shares would be a better representation of worth than either of those stats
And his WSP was well below average for starters
with a historically bad defense behind him
peripherals tell you far more about a pitcher than the rest. a pitcher will perform to those over the long run.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
You can only blame so much on his D
Opponents slugged over .480 against him good for one of the worst in the majors as a starter. Finesse pitchers cannot get hit so hard. And I don’t know how he’ll fare in the long run. But last year he wasn’t average overall
hence why you look at peripherals
get past noise like bad luck, bad defense, and so on.
and you can blame a hell of a lot on the 07 tampa bay defense
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
and the 08 defense prior to today, apparently.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
fuckers stealing my shit
at least he expanded on it.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/4/21/434265/evaluating-andy-sonnanstin
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
PASSOVER
someone tell tell God that our offense has nothing to do with the first born sons of Egypt!!
harharhar please tip your waitresses ill be here all week.
speed over accuracy, remember?
looks like appomattox court house hits tampa bay with the arsonist up in the ‘pen.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
too bad you'll miss the rally
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
In other news...
Jerry Owens picked up his first extra-base hit of 2008, a double. 1-for-3 with a walk.
Nothing else much going on – The Knights are losing, 3-1.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 19, 2008 7:54 PM CDT reply actions
Our errors, baserunning mistakes and poor judgement
is costing us another game. I pray we can comeback but I would not bet the farm on it tonight. They do not look good, no fire anywhere.
Don't you need baserunners to make baserunning mistakes?
Only mistakes I’ve seen tonight have been in the field.
The Rays pitcher has been dealing.
a walk! amazing.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
The Cuban Missile
looks like he needs seasoning in a lower league.
I think everyone agrees...
except, apparently, for Guillen and Williams.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 19, 2008 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Our baserunning mistakes
have been with their baserunners.
Tampa Bay is heavy into wrestling
a big show to follow the game. Hold AJ back.
Where's Masset?
Go down in flames.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 19, 2008 8:04 PM CDT reply actions
two days in a row?
you trying to blow out that special arm?
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
He never looked better
I think Mac is on top of his game. We must give praise when it is due.
Sometimes
when I leave they come back , let’s test it.
Elephant in the room
Sox now own the 13th ranked BA in the AL, .239 (only fractions of a percentage point from last in the AL)
AIM: SouthSideCheat
I was looking at the lineup (late)
and when AJ and JD are not in it you wonder where the hits come from.
And tonight, we have the answer – they don’t.
I took the "under".
in that case, maybe sonnanstine SHOULDN'T have been hit.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions
A lot like last year...
Except Swisher and Quentin get on-base. I would expect the Sox BA to rise—Thome, Konerko, and Cabrera should all improve. Maybe even Quentin. And honestly, Uribe would be expected to have a higher BA as well…although I’d love to see a better hitter at 2B somehow.
Anyway, the Sox offense should be expected to be average I think. They’ve won for the most part because the starting pitching has over-performed. I’m more concerned about the unsustainability of that…
by hitlesswonder on Apr 19, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
you mean babip?
not every ball is in play.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
right. so that explains why the BABIP can be higher than the overall average against, but how does the overall average against get higher than the BABIP?
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions
you're messing with my mind
is this a theoretical question or do you have an example. home runs. a guy could theoretically give up 1.000 BAA but have a .000 BABIP.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
no, it was a real example
from looking at fangraph’s sonnanstine page, which showed a higher BAA than BABIP against for this season. i didn’t realize that home runs weren’t included in BABIP.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
makes sense. just hadn't seen the BAA > BABIP on a stats page before.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 19, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions
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