In Defense of Tropicana Field
I always like to check out the SBN site of the opposing team as one of the proprietors of DRaysBay, so I've been lurking around South Side Sox for the last weekend or so. I was disappointed to check it out today and see that a member of the SSS community had some rather unflattering things to say about Tropicana Field. Since this opinion is neither unique nor entirely incorrect, I thought it would be fair for me to at least offer my two cents on the Trop.
First of all, to make things clear, I'm not arguing that Tropicana Field is a good ballpark. It is probably among the bottom five in Major League Baseball, and if not that, certainly the bottom ten. It simply is a dated facility that hasn't stood the test of time, but I think that a ballpark of the Trop's caliber ranks so lowly among MLB facilities is a testament to how much better ballparks have gotten over the last 18 years. A user in the earlier SSS diary noted how he had visited Tropicana Field ten years ago for one of the first ever series at the ballpark, and I've got to say that the Tropicana Field he observed was a dump. But I invite him to come back down to the Sunshine City in the Sunshine State to give our stadium another try. The investments that new owner Stu Sternberg have put into the stadium over the last two years have been immense, and it has really made all the difference. The ballpark is no longer drab, but vibrant with a paint scheme that reflects the team's new identity. New scoreboards have been put in, amentities have been increased dramatically, the outside has been landscaped, and you can still sit in comfort and watch Major League Baseball at 72 degree temperatures, for every game.
I've been to Comiskey Park in Chicago, and I've been to probably half of the stadiums currently in service around the Majors, and the Trop does rank relatively low. Comiskey itself wasn't a great ballpark before the renovations over the last five years, but those changes have made all the difference. I went to a game there in '06 and found the stadium to be excellent. It definitely compares well with Tropicana Field, and since Chicago actually has a mass transit system worthy of civilized folk, it was easy to get to. I only wish that Tampa Bay had any system of which to speak. But the fact of the matter is that Comiskey is only one year older than Tropicana Field, and prior to the renovations, it was an outdoor Tropicana Field. The era in which the two stadiums were built, just before Camden Yards, hinders the flexibility both teams have in bringing their stadiums up to the standards of the new "retro" ballparks. With Tropicana Field, it is all but impossible to work within the constraints of a dome to bring the stadium up to 21st century standards. Hence the new ballpark proposals.
So while Tropicana Field isn't a great ballpark, it takes far too severe a beating from opposing fans. It is entirely serviceable as a major league stadium, and going to probably three dozen games a year there, I've grown to appreciate it. It may not be perfect, but it was the stadium that fulfilled our area's Major League dreams. It did its job in bringing a team to Tampa Bay (eventually), and for that reason it is a place that means a lot to me. It might not be the crown jewel of the league, but it is too often trashed excessively.
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Blowhard
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on
Apr 21, 2008 2:54 PM CDT
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not a first-time caller.
i hope your foray into sss-ville ends better for you this time than it did last time.
this is all i need to know that tropicana field is a bad place for baseball:
-A batted ball that hits the catwalk, lights or suspended objects in foul territory will automatically be ruled a dead ball and it shall be called a strike.
-A batted ball that hits a catwalk, lights or suspended objects in fair territory shall be judged fair of foul in relation to the striking point on the ground or where it is touched by the fielder. If the ball hits the catwalk, lights or suspended objects in fair territory and lands in the field in fair territory or is touched by a fielder in fair territory, it shall be judged a fair ball. If the ball strikes the catwalk, lights or suspended objects in fair territory and is caught by a fielder in fair or foul territory, then the batter is out and the base runners run at their own risk.
-A batted ball that hits the catwalk, lights or suspended objects and remains on or in the catwalk, lights or suspended objects in foul territory is a foul ball and it shall be called a strike.
-A batted ball that hits the catwalk, lights or suspended objects and remains on or in the catwalk, lights or suspended objects in fair territory is a fair ball and it shall be called a double.
-A batted ball that hits either of the lower two catwalks, lights or suspended objects in fair territory is a home run.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on
Apr 21, 2008 3:44 PM CDT
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LOL!!
The groud rules are a blast, aren’t they?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
Apr 21, 2008 3:50 PM CDT
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Don't tell me - is this the "Toby Hall is a classless asshole" dude?
You know what – you were right!
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on
Apr 21, 2008 5:30 PM CDT
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http://www.southsidesox.com/2006/12/18/2831/9551#2774741
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on
Apr 21, 2008 5:42 PM CDT
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classic
"I got the shotgun. You got the briefcase. It's all in the game though, right? "
by onlysoxfaninboston on
Apr 21, 2008 8:17 PM CDT
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Actually, I think my last foray here ended quite well
Seeing as though Toby Hall has proven to be an unproductive waste of money for you all. Perhaps it was ignorant at the time to suggest not signing him due to his being an asshole, which he sort of was, but there was also the whole “he sucks” element as well. Sorry you had to find out the hard way.
People always bring up the catwalks as a problem with the Trop, and I can understand that to some degree, but how honestly does it really impact the game? The ground rules pretty much set things even. Balls off the lower two catwalks would be home runs had the catwalks not obstructed the ball’s flight. Balls hitting off catwalks in foul territory would end up as foul balls out of play anyways. As far as balls striking the upper couple catwalks go, I’ve only seen that happen maybe a few times since the stadium opened. It really doesn’t occur that often, and balls that stay up there and are judged ground rule doubles are no different than similar quirks in any other ballpark. Not every stadium is cookie-cutter similar, thankfully, nearly every one has their own unique ground rules in some area or another, and the arcane ones at the Trop come into play so little that it shouldn’t really matter.
BTW, no hard feelings, I hope?
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 21, 2008 9:59 PM CDT
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funny
I don’t see the reason behind your ‘toby will suck’ prediction being the reason toby has sucked
but that didn’t stop you from claiming credit.
with that and you deleting your message and then saying ‘what message?’ makes me wonder if you’re trying to get some douchebag award…
by The Wizard on
Apr 21, 2008 10:12 PM CDT
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The ends justify the means, but really.........
I’m not here to claim credit for anything. You’ll notice that I wasn’t the one who brought up Toby Hall in the first place. I personally couldn’t give a rat’s ass, and it was wrong of me to care at that point. I created this thread to offer my rebuttal to one person’s opinion of Tropicana Field; your post is entirely irrelevant to that topic.
Listen, if you want the last word on something that happened 17 months ago, by all means have at it. For my part, the matter is past. I don’t care to debate you on it. All I will say is that SSS is an enjoyable community with good writers and knowledgeable Sox fans. Keep up the good work.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 21, 2008 10:44 PM CDT
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Pretty rough crowd
How is the new owner working out? Will he be able to keep the better players around? Is attendance doing well now that they have some exciting players? Seems like they finally have a plan down there, would be nice to see someone else come out of the AL East..
by Grinder in Training on
Apr 21, 2008 4:14 PM CDT
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I like Stu Sternberg a lot
I may disagree with some of his individual decisions, but they are relatively minor and I can understand the general thinking that he is going with as he moves forward on the franchise. The team has done more in a business sense over the last two years than Naimoli ever did. He’s upgraded the stadium, re-branded the team, signed several players to long-term, team-friendly deals, and moved forward with a massive stadium proposal that would completely change the look of St. Pete.
There will be individual players, Scott Kazmir most likely, that probably won’t stay here long-term, but I think that he can keep the core of the team together just fine. They have the No. 1 farm system in baseball, and the Longoria signing last week is just another example of the commitment Sternberg has shown to keeping the young players here. He might not always be successful, but he will try.
Attendance has increased every year at the Trop since Sternberg took over, including so far this year, and a lot of that has to do with the upgrades he’s made to the stadium. The organization is really trying their best to make the Trop a destination for families, and they’re building relationships in the community. Attendance is at its highest levels since 1998-00 despite the team actually finishing with the worst record in baseball for two years running. I think things will only get better as they develop a winning product.
This team is fun to watch, and for the first time that I can remember as a fan, there is actually the expectation of some success this year. We probably won’t finish in even the top three of the AL East this year, but next year they could certainly challenge for the division if things keep progressing.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 21, 2008 10:05 PM CDT
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OK
I don’t know, I don’t know if I can name 4 other places I’d lease like to watch a ballgame at then Tropicana. I’ve been to Dolphin’s stadium, other than when I went (year after 1st championship, 1998 probably) you could park about 200 feet from the stadium for about 5 bucks, it was just a hideous place for baseball.
So there is one. Maybe the Metrodome?
Tropicana just looks like a generic circus ring that they call a stadium.
Like if you played “arena league” baseball on some crazy video game Tropicana would be the ideal enviroment.
by madvillian on
Apr 21, 2008 5:47 PM CDT
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Guy died there last week
riding the escalator and fell to his death in front of hit two young boys. Shea is in NYC though and has history, which easily puts it over Tropicanna.
by madvillian on
Apr 21, 2008 9:43 PM CDT
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I thought we were just talking ballpark alone
Otherwise, it’d be hard to make a case for Kansas City, even though Kauffman is, in terms of cost, the best experience in baseball.
by Sox Machine on
Apr 21, 2008 9:57 PM CDT
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Granted, I haven't been to a lot of these stadiums.....
But I would nominate Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park, the Metrodome, the Oakland Coliseum, Shea Stadium, and Joe Robbie Stadium as potentially worse places to catch a ballgame. IMO, the Trop is certainly better than Joe Robbie. Now obviously five of these stadiums are going to be replaced in the near term, and Fenway has historical value, so the Trop doesn’t have a lot going for it going forward. That’s why it is imperative for the team to get the ball rolling on a stadium upgrade, but right now I think the Trop is cushioned from the bottom. I guess it’s a matter of taste though. Some people just have a virulent antipathy towards domes.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 21, 2008 10:09 PM CDT
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Yankee stadium or Tropicana...
Of the 13 Rays fans in existence, 12 of them would pick Yankee stadium.
by chrome on
Apr 21, 2008 11:14 PM CDT
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You're underestimating air conditioning
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on
Apr 22, 2008 3:48 PM CDT
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Joe Robbie is horrible
I haven’t been to the dump in Tampa, but Joe Robbie is terrible for baseball. The worst baseball stadium by far that I’ve been to.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on
Apr 22, 2008 6:22 AM CDT
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Fenway is terrible.
At least 8 years ago it was, just a dump.
by Grinder in Training on
Apr 22, 2008 7:26 AM CDT
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i recall reading a similar tract
[link http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/idom/dm/index.htm]
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on
Apr 21, 2008 6:11 PM CDT
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That is fucking hilarious, larry.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on
Apr 21, 2008 6:30 PM CDT
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Yikes, unfortunate coincidence
I don’t plan on quoting the Communist Manifesto anywhere though, so have no fear.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 21, 2008 10:11 PM CDT
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Read it - you have nothing to lose but your chains
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on
Apr 22, 2008 6:23 AM CDT
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First of all, to make things clear, I'm not arguing that Tropicana Field is a good ballpark. It is probably among the bottom five in Major League Baseball, and if not that, certainly the bottom ten.
Thats all I needed to read.
Floyd for President
by e-gus on
Apr 22, 2008 6:21 PM CDT
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Is this the one they refer to as "The Juicebox"
Or is that Minute Maid in Houston?
I can never remember.
"I'll bring the awesome." -The 'Swish'
by Hazymania on
Apr 25, 2008 1:19 AM CDT
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Nah, just The Trop.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on
Apr 25, 2008 7:39 PM CDT
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lol
well then
"I'll bring the awesome." -The 'Swish'
by Hazymania on
Apr 28, 2008 1:37 AM CDT
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