Don't Tell Me, Bullpen Again
There probably would have been a lot of angst following Tuesday's loss to the Yankees would the bullpen had been able to keep the game close in the late innings. I'd argue that angst would be misplaced, and instead should (theoretically) have been directed squarely at the offense unable to put together the big inning.
The White Sox had what looked to be a big scoring opportunities in the 5th, 6th and 7th innings, but could only net 2 runs total in those three frames. Jermaine Dye had a particularly tough day at the plate, stranding 6 runners and striking out twice in key situations to dampen Sox rallies. And when your hopes are riding on Juan Uribe at the plate, well, you don't have much hope at all.
Trying to find some positives in the breezy three hour, forty-four minute game...
-
Jose Contreras looked pretty good. He threw over the top for much of the game, though I assume that had more to do with the general left-handedness of the Yankees lineup more than anything else. Still, his velocity is better than last year, and he looks like a guy who can at least keep the Sox in the game every 5th day.
- The Sox offense had a productive game against Wang. It just didn't result in--how do I put this--runs. They left a baker's dozen stranded on the basepaths tonight.
- With his second late-inning, bases clearing (in a bad way) outing in a White Sox uniform, Octavio Dotel probably won't be getting any high-leverage innings for a while.
- It was almost fun to watch Bobby Jenks pitch again... Then I realized it was Joba Chamberlain. I'm sure Bobby's just saving his heat for the playoffs.
- The Sox gave up 5 homers in their first 160+ innings pitched. In the 9 innings since an unnamed poster boastfully claimed the Sox have "some of the nastiest pitches" in baseball, they've given up 3 more. Coincidence? I think not.
- We're due to have a small, two hour (hopefully shorter) downtime on the site tonight, so don't freak out. We should be back to normal in the overnight hours.
0 recs |
163 comments
Comments
Call me crazy
But I find it hard to fault the offense tonight. Five runs isn’t bad. The massive runner stranding was bad, but I think that just happens sometimes. They had some bad at-bats and Joba Chamberlain is tough (if only the Sox had drafted Joba….sigh). The number of baserunners was great and if the Sox continue to do that I won’t worry about the offense.
The bullpen is a concern. They don’t have the peripherals that the offense does. Dotel is a key guy—I think Marmol and Zumaya have shown that a lock-down “middle relief” guy is very valuable (they come on with runners on base while closers start an inning). If Dotel and Mac continue to pitch lousily, I don’t see anyone to fill that role effectively in the organization.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 12:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The bullpen sucked implicitly
That was more or less a preemptive against the second guessing that Ozzie was sure to receive… The offense was at-fault for tonight’s loss, not when 9 runs are allowed, but there should have been 6+ runs on the board by the end of the 7th, and then Ozzie is using a whole different part of the bullpen (Linebrink, Jenks)
As for a lockdown middle of the bullpen guy within the organization - there is that one guy, who, you know, did just that for the last 6 weeks of the season last year - But he’s off the roster, and that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
was = wasn't
more drinking
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 12:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought of "The Man Who Wasn't Nick Magic" as well
But even though I think he’s a useful big league reliever I’m not sure that his platoon splits make him th guy I’d really want. If he was used like Dotel last night, the same thing likely happens. He should be on the roster though.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far...
in Triple A lefthanders are oh for 9, right handers are oh for 8. In spring training lefthanders were around 4 for 20. Exactly what platoon splits are you talking about?
by sylsouthbb on Apr 23, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm gonna go ahead and guess this one
vs LHB .533/.632/.733
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=wasseeh01&year=2007
did i get it right? what do i win?
bobby abreu doesn’t play for scranton.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's some second-guessing
when i saw who was warming up in the pen, i found it odd that ozzie showed so much respect to damon that he brought in a lefty for him. perhaps this was just my perception of how the game was going to go (i.e., sox weren’t going to get two outs before abreu came to bat) but i would have just brought in dotel for damon and jeter and then gone to logan for abreu. orthodox thinking,of course, says play for the two outs on the next two batters and then worry so i guess my hindsight is just that. dotel v. abreu is not a match-up you want occurring in a high leverage situation.
but, yeah, the offense was at fault for this one. yeah, sometimes the hits don’t come. but that doesn’t mean they weren’t the ones to primarily point the finger towards. twenty baserunners or whatever it was should not equal 5 runs.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offense not to blame?
Lot of hits. Very few when it mattered. One Sox run was walked in. Another came in slop time. So yes, the offense was to blame, especially when URIBE gets two RBI! What was the final tally for the Sox hitters with RISP? At one point, I had them at 2 for 11.
...and on my death bed, I will receive total consciousness. So I got that going for me, which is nice.
by thekever on Apr 23, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're simply going to disagree
But there will be nights when key hits don’t happen. Hitting is hard. Especially against Joba from the right side. The Sox had some bad at-bats but the scored enough to win cause they got loads of people on base.
In contrast, the bullpen gave up 7 runs in 3 innings of work when any semi-competent group would have given up 2 runs maximum.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bullpen needs to deliever,
but I blame the O last night. The Sox should have at least had 6-7 runs last night by the 6th inning. They had Wang on the ropes quite a few times, and couldn’t break it open. The game would have been a lot different, and managed different if the O could have done anything.
by Tony82087 on Apr 23, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say...
the Sox had an extremely high number of really good at-bats against really, really good pitching to go along with a few bad at bats. I’ll take that if we can get it every night. You’re right. The “clutch” hits will come.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man this team is really starting to slide
I mean, we’re losing games that MLB doesn’t even have scheduled.
by BustedFlush on Apr 23, 2008 12:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So we have some Columbian Fued issues again...
I’ve been drinking since noon. Shoot me.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we keep playing like that
and I’m going to subscribe to that MO
by BustedFlush on Apr 23, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
posted this in what appears to be a dead gamethread, so here it is again
one thing this game did make me realize is that all the hitters on our bench are essentially worthless. when uribe came up with the bases loaded my first reaction was "you can’t let him bat here," and then i thought about it for a second, and realized that hall, anderson, and ramirez all would’ve been woefully overmatched (in all fairness, most bench hitters would be against chamberlain), and pablo might’ve been a better choice than uribe because he makes contact, but not so overwhelmingly that leaving juan in there was indefensible. not having a lefty isn’t great either.
i guess what i’m saying, crazy as it may sound, is that i miss rob mackowiak. he’s just rotting on the bench in washington, maybe we can get him back! sadly, i’m only half kidding. i’m sure someone will explain to me that even a great lefty bench hitter is only likely be worth 1 win over the course of the season, but i’d still feel better about it.
by Ryno on Apr 23, 2008 12:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You could move AJ down in the order
It’s happened a few times now that a tough RHP comes in from the bullpen against our 7,8,9 hitters and it’s lights out. Since there’s no LHB on the bench, if you bat AJ 8th it breaks up that string of RHBs. But then you’d have PK, JD, Crede and Quentin bunched up in the middle, so you’re screwed there. It definitely would be helpful to have a respectable LHB on the bench.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 23, 2008 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bourbon
Being old, I drink gin and bourbon instead of vodka and scotch.
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
by Chiburb on Apr 23, 2008 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better late than never
Good, then I chose correctly – Wild Turkey, splash of branch water. You know why I only drink branch water Chiburb? POE, Purity of Essence.
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 23, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good managers don't lose games like yesterday's
I just did not understand why Contreras had to pitch in the 7th inning. “I trust my men”... Laughable. Albeit Yankees only had scored 2 runs against him, it’s was blatantly clear he was not pitching, but “surviving.” Come on, man. It’s the Yankees the team you’re facing, and the ballpark was full… being humble sometimes pays.
He dominated Giambi? Good… but Giambi already had a HR off him. Risky. Why did you still insist with Contreras? The walk that followed clearly proved that the night had been unneccesarily extended for the Cuban hurler. Man, you’re winning for the minimum! You have to be careful! Bringing Logan just a batter later resulted harmful. Logan was the man for that 7th inning. And look the mess that inning turned into.
2-0 is the more dangerous pitch count in baseball. A mound visit was pertinent.. Did you notice who was batting? Bob Abreu. Bases loaded. You noticed, right? You noticed that Dotel is not for these moments, right? Dotel 6.05. Thornton 5.14. Thornton has a very good fastball… but that’s all… he has to improve his other pitches if he aspires to be dominant.
What a shame.
by Venezolano on Apr 23, 2008 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Couple Things
1. Bullpen looks shoddy again.
2. Stranding 13 runners will not win you many ballgames.
3. Has Dotel lost it?
4. Contreras pitched good enough to win.
5. Konerko swung the bat well yesterday – finally.
6. Bases loaded, Uribe batting – pops up on first pitch. Same ole’ Profundo.
7. Big game tonight – Vasquez needs to set the tone early.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 8:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good summary, Bobby.
Is Dotel this years MacDougal?
...and on my death bed, I will receive total consciousness. So I got that going for me, which is nice.
by thekever on Apr 23, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McaDougal is still this years MacDougal
Dotel is just putting pressure on him to achieve a new level of dis-stress
by Brush Back on Apr 23, 2008 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
primer
dotel is last year’s macdougal. macdougal is this year’s 2010 linebrink. linebrink is 2005 politte. jenks is 2006 jenks. logan is 2004 marte. thornton is 2002 wunsch. and masset, of course, remains masset. because masset is always here and always the same.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WU is right
you ARE on a roll lately. nice one.
Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote
by Chiburb on Apr 23, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bet you can't tell me what
I am having for lunch today?
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AHHHH SHIT!
“The Sox gave up 5 homers in their first 160+ innings pitched. In the 9 innings since an unnamed poster boastfully claimed the Sox have “some of the nastiest pitches” in baseball, they’ve given up 3 more. Coincidence? I think not.” Yeah it’s my fault that our pitchers gave up all those taters last night. I should have kept my mouth shut. Although I did not say anything about Dotel’s pitches ;)
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just giving you a hard time
Just so you know. You’re officially on the hook for all the HR for the rest of the season.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait for tonight's game.
I’m sick of thinking about that goddamn GS. How a leftie isn’t facing Abreu, when one was brought in for Johnny fucking Damn, is mind boggling. There are any number of ways Ozzie could’ve used his bullpen less incompetently.
And then…we have to watch Uribe against Joba with the bases loaded. Can’t look at one freakin’ pitch Juany? How many times have you faced Joba in your career? Oh, that was the first time?
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Re Uribe. If it was that cut and dried, the take sign would have been on.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on Apr 23, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because taking pitches is always a good thing, right?
i would have been looking first pitch slider, too. he got it. just couldn’t do anything with it. weird, huh, that happening with a good pitcher against a guy who would obviously be overmatched by joba. that was a pitch right down the gut of the plate, belt-high (obviously with movement, so not a cookie). that’s probably the best pitch he’d see in an at bat.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're taught in little league
When you are facing a new pitcher with the game on the line you ALWAYS take a pitch.
1. You hope to see something that helps you out later in the at bat.
2. You hope to get ahead in the count (especially with the bases loaded)
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This game was not uribe's fault
we had the lead late and gave it up. simple as that.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never said it was
But, the game should have been put away before the bullpen imploded.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well why get on him for swinging on the first pitch
the book on some pitchers is to hack away because they throw first pitch strikes.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In this case,
I’M not sure about anything. I was OK WITH WHAT oZZIE did with the pitching/matchups….although I did question some….in the end, we need to avoid Abreu….he kills us….and, that trumps the handedness of the pitcher , at least in this instance. I don’t know
by dantesox on Apr 23, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're also taught (correctly) in little league
that strikeouts are bad. major league ain’t little league. different game.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time and Time
again Juan goes up there swinging for the fences on the first pitch. How often has that worked? I am not blaming the loss on him – but chr*st – take a pitch. You suck as a hitter so why not work the count – ESPECIALLY WITH THE BASES LOADED and a young pitcher on the mound.
IT JUST BAFFLES ME.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, boy, this is amusing
guys who suck at hitting and are obviously overmatched should go up there looking for a pitch and swing at that pitch if they get it. work the count? again, this ain’t little league. this is juan uribe facing joba chamberlain. ever heard of him? strikes out a lot of guys, doesn’t walk a lot of guys? work the count. you hear that one from your dad in third grade? please. you don’t get to work the count against guys like chamberlain when you’re juan uribe. guess where uribe would have been if he didn’t swing at that first pitch? behind in the count. against joba chamberlain. exactly where a piss poor hitter wants to be against him.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See: PK Game 2 '05 WS
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong place. :(
Supposed to be under WU.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's also amusing
that everybody is shitting on uribe for hacking at a strike on the first pitch with the bases loaded but nobody is railing about quentin’s bases loaded whiff two batters earlier. the explanation is the same, though…it’s joba freaking chamberlain, a/k/a exhibit one to demonstrate why you have to get your runs when you can against the wangs, bruneys, and mussinas of the yankees.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh huh
but quentin worked the count. you know, took a pitch on his way to not hitting the ball.
the mentality on this board is exactly what people keep citing to: little league. i.e., hope the guy with the nasty stuff you can’t hit will walk you.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am admittedly just annoyed/aggrivated with the outcome...
but it’s freakin’ URIBE who’s always annoying/aggrivating at the plate. He’s not exactly the Pitch Selection Master you’re making him out to be for swing at that.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who said he was a pitch selection master?
juan was using his rep in the AB. they knew he would probably swing. so they threw a slider. juan was waiting for it. he got overmatched. c’est la vie. i give the man credit for doing what he could do against probably one of the toughest relievers out there right now. skewering uribe for every blessed thing is idiotic and deserves to be called out. if people want to whine about it, take it someplace else. i’m sure people whined about it no end on the gamethread. it’s twelve hours later. time to use one’s head.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not even.
cq swung at a slider out of the zone for strike one (what???? he swung at the first pitch against, you know, a guy he’d never faced before? burn him at the stake!), took a slider in the dirt for a ball, then whiffed at a fastball for strike two and struck out on another slider out of the zone.
better hitter, better situation (only one out…can look to do less), and still shit result.
what people need to realize is that chamberlain is one of those guys who doesn’t need to mess around with the uribes, and to a lesser extent the quentins, of the world. his stuff is good enough that he can throw a first-pitch (or second, third, fourth, and so on for that matter) slider for a strike to uribe and win that battle nearly every time even if uribe knows it’s coming.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not that easy to hit wang
we were fortunate enough to not get him on his A game. The point is we need to hold leads no matter if we get insurance runs or not. I liked putting boone out there with 2 men on base, it didn’t work this time. Shit happens another shitty loss. I am more worried about Buehrle struggling early. He has got to stop letting games get out of hand. If there is an error he is supposed to get hitters to ground into double plays. He has not done that. Unless he starts pitching we are not a good enough team to overcome these (occasional) late inning gaffes when he is responsible for like 3 or 4 of our losses.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure what you're talking about.
in his first (and by far worst) game, he ended up with a no decision. dotel blew that one, too. in his second game, he gave up 2 runs in 7 innings and got a win. in his third start, he got saddled with a loss despite giving up only 2 runs in 7 innings. the last game against tampa bay he gave up a bunch of seeing-eye singles after the botched rundown. where do you come up with him being responsible for three or four losses?
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sonnanstined.
remember also that the sox scored ZERO runs in his last start (and only 1 the start before). clearly it’s all on buehrle.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is
he has not looked good no matter what his record is. he got a lucky no decision. we lost. 2nd game he won…ok. 3rd game he couldn’t hold the lead. 4th game no run support. He is supposed to be the ace and overcome that shit. that’s all im saying.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you make this stuff up?
game one. everybody knows he had a terrible outing. but when the sox come back to tie up the game, it isn’t buehrle’s fault that dotel much later loads the bases and then gives up a bases-clearing double.
game two we agree on. he pitched well and the sox won.
game three. he couldn’t hold the lead? what lead? the white sox never had the lead. they were down 2-0 before getting one measly run off the great greg smith in the sixth.
game four. yeah, ZERO run support. no runners past second base. no way no how that can loss be put on him.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Buehrle
The game he won, he was letting too many batters reach base, he did a good job holding them but still. Game 3 he was out dueled by the guy… not all his fault obviously but they both started with a tied game. I guess my real point is we need him to set the tone… I have seen him get rattled by errors which is unusual for him. My point is I was hoping he would win 20 games this year… he still might and I know it’s not all his fault but to my point in spring training and you alluded to it to, he falls behind early in games which puts more pressure on the offense and that is why he doesn’t get the run support he deserves.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where to begin.
“The game he won, he was letting too many batters reach base, he did a good job holding them but still.”
In that game, he let 9 men reach base in seven innings for a WHIP of 1.29; his career WHIP is 1.27.
“Game 3 he was out dueled by the guy… not all his fault obviously but they both started with a tied game.”
This is like saying that Eli Manning outdueled Tom Brady in the Super Bowl even though they were never on the field at the same time. Bottom line is that a starter who gives up 2 runs in 7 innings is not to blame for that loss, regardless of when the runs came in the game.
“I guess my real point is we need him to set the tone… I have seen him get rattled by errors which is unusual for him.”
Since when is it unusual for him…that’s been a running joke here for the last two years.
“My point is I was hoping he would win 20 games this year… he still might and I know it’s not all his fault but to my point in spring training and you alluded to it to, he falls behind early in games which puts more pressure on the offense and that is why he doesn’t get the run support he deserves.”
You can hope all you want that he wins 20 games. But (a) wins aren’t a very effective tool in gauging a pitcher’s performance and (b) since he’s won more than 16 games only once, six years ago, your hope appears to be not much more than hope. With regard to falling behind early, it sure didn’t seem to stop the Sox offense on opening day, and the hitters did zip against Greg Smith and Andy Sonnanstine. Didn’t matter what the score was.
Did you realize if you take away the opening day game, Buehrle has a 3.42 ERA in 21 innings. Granted his WHIP is still high, but his performance the last three games has not been bad.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buehrle
Is not a strike out pitcher, for the last 7 years he’s let guys get on his base. He’s a guy who relies on his defense, not sure where you’ve been, but he’s a guy who throws strikes, and let’s his defense play for him. This is why he has trouble when someone makes an error.
He isn’t letting too many hitters on base, he always let’s hitters on base. Not every pitcher wins by getting strike outs. He will always give up hits, I’m not sure if you’ve never paid attention before or just don’t know about baseball.
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
He is not a strike out pitcher? and all this time…. I really don’t feel like arguing about this. He needs to step it up.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is he supposed to...
“step it up”? He’s doing the same thing he always has – the defense is letting him down. Period.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry. you haven't argued yet.
all you’ve done is made up or distorted facts and compared your hopes for buehrle’s 2008 performance, which aren’t based on any historical data, to his current performance which, aside from game one, has not been much different from his career performance.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats fine
Toonder… I have higher expectations of Buehrle. If you want to be satisfied and say he is what he is that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Myself on the other hand feels that he should be able to take the next step with the stuff he has. Greg Maddox dominated being a soft thrower with control.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just see
a lack of focus… and I heard a rumor that he pitches so fast because he’s hung over and can only pitch hung over. anyone else hear this?
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just see a lack of focus
is that sort of like Brian Anderson being a cocky asshole for walking to home plate too ‘confidently’?
by CWSKeith on Apr 23, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aside from the first game,
he’s pretty much pitched the same way his entire career. guess he’s NEVER been focused.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian's problem
is that he is unable to pick up the spin on pitches.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
time for lasik
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so your expectations of buehrle
are based on the performance of one of the best pitchers in the history of baseball, rather than on how buehrle has actually performed up to his age 29 season?
maddux didn’t start dominating hitters at age 29; he’d already won three cy youngs by that point.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I would rebuttle
that if Buehrle was more focused he may have won 1 by now.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweet Molly
How can you look at Buehrle’s stuff and say he should have gotten more out of his ability than he has? How?
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what, you don't see a left-handed
maddux when you watch buehrle pitch?
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the sake of argument,
let’s say you’re right and buehrle has never been focused. what made you think he suddenly would get focused after 8 and a half seasons and win 20 games?
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am allowed to hope right?
I don’t think you guys give his stuff enough credit. He did throw a no hitter, albeit because of great defense that day. When he starts getting fluttered he pitches TOO fast and starts giving up hits. He is a rythm pitcher and sometimes needs to be tamed. He has the stuff to win 20 games. period.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he ALWAYS gives up a bunch of hits.
since ‘03, he’s given up 1237 hits in 1140 innings. in not one of those seasons did he give up less hits than innings pitched.
since you like the maddux comparison so much, he, on the other hand, gave up more hits than innings pitched one season between 1988 and 1998. one. with less walks.
buehrle just doesn’t miss many bats, which means that he can gave good or great stuff and still give up a bunch of hits (see tampa bay on saturday) if balls aren’t hit at people and if the defense isn’t making plays behind him.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and also
winning game’s is also determined on how good of a division you’re in. Over the past 7 years we have had a pretty tough division. Especially in the past 3 years.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The braves played in a
piss poor division when they were able to slaughter the expos (most of the time), mets, phillies, and marlins (all but 1 year). Another factor… he pitched in the NL w/o a DH something Buehrle has never done. So really you can not compare the 2 because they pitched in different leagues. I could also argue that Buehrle broke in when the steroid era was in it’s prime. When Maddux was winning those Cy Youngs he was pitching to guys who were alot smaller than they are now.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
I won’t mention the stike zone Maddux was awarded…even though I just did.
by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
brick wall.
number one, do you remember who started the maddux comparison? you did.
number two, check out the adjusted era+ numbers for maddux and buehrle. it won’t help with a direct comparison, but you can see how maddux compared to all other national league pitchers and buehrle to american league pitchers for each season. this will take care of your weaker league and steroid effect issues. i also think you overstate the strength of the al central for a few of those years and discount the infrequency of pitching against the yankees and red sox.
maddux ‘92-’98: 166, 171, 271, 262, 162, 189, 187. those numbers in the 200s are correct.
buehrle ‘02-’07: 140, 126, 112, 122, 144, 95, 131.
feel free to check out the whip numbers as well.
if you really think buehrle’s stuff is as good as maddux’s ever was, or that maddux’s success is a result of a strike zone, i can’t do anything for you.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 24, 2008 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since 2000
Buehrle has pitched more major league inning than anyone else. He has a 3.80 ERA in the AL and the Cell. I don’t know where that ranks but classifying him as an underachiever is stupefying.
I do have to agree though, if Maddux can be possible the best pitcher in history then there’s no excuse for anyone not to be. Gavin Floyd should be on his way to the Hall.
Sheesh.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to be obtuse
but conventional wisdom for kids isn’t always the best policy. Lots of folks are aggressive with the first pitch, especialy with the bags loaded, because they figure the pitcher needs a strike, and it’s the best pitch they’ll see. Advantage, hitter.
Some, like Wade Boggs, IIRC, ALWAYS take the first pitch. A man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do.
I’ll split the baby – the loss was a collaborative effort between poor situational hitting and an inability to keep a batted ball in the park in important sitations. The strikeout of Jeter was huge, but Abreu wasn’t a guy who was going to chase balls out of the zone like The Captain did (twice). I’d have taken Abreu in that situation over anybody on the Spanks for that AB. (Easy to say now, but he killed the Sox last year when we were rumored to be trading JD for him. I like Bobby.)
One hit on our part blows the game open. One hit on their part did blow it open.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 23, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never learned that in little league, or any league for that matter.
You go up there with a gameplan. If you get the pitch you are looking for first, then swing.
"You might be impressed with your analysis, but I am not. Stop wasting my time." - Chris De Luca
by BoKnows on Apr 23, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
but Juan kind of has a history of swinging at first pitches. I see a game where our hitters worked at least a million (really!) full counts and it was what worked against Wang, a pitcher that usually owns us, and then at the defining moment Juan comes up hacking…after Joba just walked a guy.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he walked him
because he was not going to throw anything other than fastballs to crede. and he didn’t. that’s not how they were going to approach uribe. you’re not looking past the surface, DI.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I'm pitching
to Uribe in this situation I don’t give him anything to hit on the first pitch. Not sure what his percentage of first pitch swings are – but it is huge. NO MATTER WHERE THE PITCH IS LOCATED! I give him a high fastball about head high and watch him chase it.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you must have a great fastball
and, no, you don’t throw a fastball to juan uribe. christ. where do you come up with this stuff? do you watch baseball on a regular basis? do you think about it with something more than a passing thought that doesn’t include what you learned in little league? you throw a slider and hope it’s good enough that he does with it exactly what uribe did with it.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BSS, he's below the Mendoza line!
If you’re Joba, when exactly IS a good time to challenge a marginal hitter with the heat?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 23, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
My impression when watching the game was the same as yours—after a relief pitcher walks to load the bases that maybe Uribe should have held back and seen if Joba was losing the zone.
But in calm reflection, larry’s right. Uribe swung at a pitch in the zone, and that’s likely the most hittable pitch he was going to see that at-bat.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I shall never question...
the Pitch Selection Master again.
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was watching the YES broadcast last night...
and even the Yankee announcers said that Chamberlain “got away with one” there. That was likely the most hittable pitch that Uribe was going to see.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was at the game.
1. Lefty / righty vs. Abreu? Not sure it mattered. The key was his first 2 pitches were balls with the bases loaded. Can’t do that in the majors.
2. The Sox outplayed them. Yanks had dinky hit after dinky hit. All that matters is the score, though.
3. Really, really crappy turnout for the game on a fabulous night for baseball. Disappointing. If the Sox fortunes turn, attendance will really take a hit.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on Apr 23, 2008 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
#2...
is really why that game made me mad and why I said I cannot wait for them to get back out on the field.
1 can be argued/talked about but ultimately I have grown to trust Ozzie’s use of the pitching staff, so I guess I should chalk that one up to a bad night.Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
chalk it up
to logan not getting the job done. not really his fault because that was about as cheap a hit you’ll see (oh, wait, uribe had a cheaper one in the same game) but the idea is to get damon and then get jeter. when that doesn’t happen, ozzie’s faced with the choice of burning his last lefty against a lefty-heavy lineup or leaving in dotel. not really a good answer either way.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3.
Why is 25K a bad turnout on a school night in April? Especially with that other team in town too?
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
by Chiburb on Apr 23, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe because last year the same series on school nights in may
drew about 30K?
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weather?
Wasn’t it supposed to T-Storm that night?
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a big difference between May and April
Namely the college-age crowd is out of school and has their disposable income at hand.
AIM: SouthSideCheat
by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure
but the sox were drawing the same amount for the rangers and other less, how shall we say, popular teams in april last year. if the yankees only get you 25K… there ain’t 5000 college kids coming to the cell.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
25K against the New York Fucking Yankees?
We’re playing well. I was shocked at the turnout.
Pitching and defense.
by ballyb on Apr 23, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it to be expected?
Last year the team was coming off a 90-win season. This year they’re coming off a 72-win season. Attendance always lags behind performance.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the Yankees.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 23, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs drew 40K+ in the afternoon.
I think after the terrible play of second half ‘06 and even more terrible play in ‘07, the fickle Chicago fans are going to the North side. If this trend keeps up, the Sox will go back to the $70-80 Million payroll next year or ‘10.
by CurlyMoe on Apr 23, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
25k, that is very lame
But as evidenced by the usual tenor on SSS, the vast majority of Sox fans are disloyal weasels – myself included. They suck, I don’t go. They’re good, I’ll go if it’s nice weather and good tickets. Is there any other franchise that has such a love/hate relationship with their fan base?
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 23, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
future shock notebook
Poreda Outshined by Fellow ‘07 Draftee: The top prospect in a bad system, left-hander Aaron Poreda’s 2.35 ERA at High-A Winston-Salem doesn’t reflect the true story of his initial struggling this spring. Carolina League hitters are batting a healthy .302 against the former University of San Francisco star, as he continues to live off of his fastball, showing little in the way of secondary pitches and allowing his opponents to simply sit back, dead-red. The development of his slider is the key to his future, and so far, it still needs a lot of work. The more impressive performance in the Warthog rotation is coming from righty John Ely, a third-round pick last summer out of Miami (Ohio). Known more for his command and his changeup than any kind of overwhelming stuff, Ely has a legitimate 1.89 ERA in three starts and a fantastic 15-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 19 innings. His upside doesn’t come close to Poreda’s, but he could be a quick mover who is ready for an audition for the back end of the big league rotation in 2010.
Whither Josh Fields? When Joe Crede went down last year, Fields did a more than credible job by slugging 23 home runs in 100 games in Crede’s place. A closer look at the statistical line does find cause for concern, however, as Fields hit just .244 while striking out 125 times in 373 at-bats. With Crede healthy and productive so far this year, Fields finds himself back at Triple-A Charlotte, where he’s come out of the gate slowly with a .254/.333/.356 line in 15 games with just one home run. With Crede’s impending free agency, Fields could be taking over again soon, but one veteran scout I spoke to is convinced that Field’s isn’t going to make many more improvements: “What’d he hit last year in the big league? .240? That’s about as good as he can get if you ask me,” he concluded. “There are just a ton of holes in that swing.”
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7409
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So the ex-players and coaches who told me the same thing in January
might know something, eh?
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 23, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, where the hell were you last night, lar?
Only a few weenie jokes were told, and we needed your even-handed, caustic perspective.
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 23, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'll notice that i generally don't populate gamethreads
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hadn't noticed
until last night. Is there a “salon” where the Volatires, Sartres, Kierkegaards, and Buckleys of the baseball world congregate? I surely could not afford that ticket. With my VP business card and all.
;)
I took the "under".
by winningugly on Apr 23, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well that isn't too promising.
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which part?
ain’t nothing new in there, for good or bad.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
Optimistic: the Sox may have a very poor man’s Kevin Slowey in A-ball!
Pessimistic: Josh Fields is teh suck.
As for Fields, I dogged him a lot but I’m somehow clinging to hope that he’s more than a .240 hitter. Watching him, he visibly did try to adjust at the plate last season, so at least there’s that. But his start in AAA isn’t inspiring. Damn strikeouts.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
anyone clinging to much hope that his BA was going to impove is probably off their meds a bit. i’m not sure i’d take the scout exactly at face value – he’s probably good for a .255, .260 and some small improvement in Ks and a decent OBP bump that comes with experience. but this is why AAA ain’t going to do much for fields.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course...that's why the sox should...
sign crede long-term, trade konerko and thome, move swisher to first, call up owens to play center, and install fields as the everyday dh. duh.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my worry on Fields...
is that the Sox (and scouts) will focus on what he can’t do (be a contact hitter or play gold-glove defense) to the exclusion of what he can do (hit the ball a long way). Then he’ll try to adjust to be the kind of hitter they want him to be, and screw himself up in the process.
I compare him to Richie Sexson, another guy who put up piss-poor contact rates in the minors and early in his major-league career. But the Indians never tried to turn him into a different hitter – they just let him do his thing, and they were better off for it.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't really care what the scouts focus on
the sox don’t seem particularly adept or maybe even interested in changing approaches so i’m not worried.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, then the other worry...
is that the Sox will simply give up on him and deal him because he’s not the player they want him to be.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You contradict yourself really well Larry.
Anyone thinking that his BA was going to improve is off their Meds. Then you state that his BA will improve. Looks like you better get back on your meds.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
reaching there a little, bobby?
got your butt kicked around a little too much today and looking for anything to help you save face? have at it.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah,
I get pissed off when someone calls me “idiotic” and a “whiner” though. I don’t attack you as an idiot or question your mentality. I think this is a blog where you share your thoughts about the White Sox. I have never personally attacked anyone on the board – I may have disagreed and I have admitted when I am wrong.
Since you have attacked me, I will throw it right back at you. I have seen on numerous occasions your stubborness when it comes to your thoughts. If someone does not agree with you then they become ostracized in your mind.
You look down upon your “audience” as a handful of court jesters with no education or baseball knowledge. Well, sometimes I wish you would just get off your high horse and speak to us commoners as people having opinions too – not idiots or mental midgets.
Lastly, I do not agree with you with Juan Uribe and Chamberlain. You talk of Chamberlain as a god and the only chance Uribe had against him was the first pitch he saw. Otherwise he is behind in the count, only 0-1, nonetheless and utterly bull f*cked. Well – maybe Uribe should have just told Ozzie that there was no way he was going to get a hit off this guy and to pinch hit for him. Hindsight is 20/20 – but Uribe has no plate discipline and swings at anything – it pisses me off to no end. That is my thoughts and not gospel – if you disagree, I won’t think your an idiot.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I don’t always agree with larry (duh) but in the case of Uribe’s AB last night, I think he was right. He got a very hittable pitch, and he just missed it. If he had hit it a quarter-inch higher, that ball would have been flying over the wall. Going after the first pitch wasn’t a bad idea.
Uribe’s had some pretty terrible PAs, but that wasn’t one of them.
Contrast that to Carlos Quentin (who everyone agrees is a much better hitter than Uribe), who looked absolutely terrible against Chamberlain, chasing pitcher’s pitches and not even coming close. Chamberlain is going to make a lot of hitters look bad.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as hawk always says
it’s better to have a bad plan than no plan at all. Q looked like he had no plan (who knows if he did – good pitchers often make your plan look like no plan). at least uribe seemed to have an idea what he wanted to do. whether it was just his default swing at everything or he really was looking first pitch slider, he at least executed.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uribe swung at a meatball, which is exactly what he should have done...
The guy fucking sucks at the plate. I would rather see Uribe swinging at first-pitch meat than be doing his Tasmanian Devil corkscrew spin on an 0-2 count.
by SSH2005 on Apr 23, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's because you can't attack me as an idiot because i'm not one
i never called anyone an idiot. i wrote doing certain things is idiotic. i wrote doing certain things is whining. simply because one engages in either of such activities does not make one an idiot or a whiner.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really seeing the difference here Larry?
So if you said that guy really ran around the bases fast…he still could not be fast?
Or, the Right Fielder really gunned that guy down at 3rd base….he still could not have an arm?
Or, that lawyer really made that deposition look intelligent…he still isn’t intelligent?
By saying someone said something whiney – in the person’s eyes you said it to means you are calling them a whiner. Plane and simple.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
take it however you want
if you want to self-select as an idiot or whiner, have at it.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol.
Fuckin’ lawyers. Keep backpedalling, Larry
Out-underacheiving the other guy.
by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uribe is trash...
He should swing at any meatball he sees. Remember how he got his 2 RBI double earlier in the game? Oh yeah, on a meatball pitch.
by SSH2005 on Apr 23, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, that's good - pinned the tail right on that donkey
I propose a new name – “Nice Guy Larry”. Never a cross word for anyone, never called anyone an idiot, never any condescension, never whined when you call him out on his bullshit…
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 23, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question
You say Uribe has no plate discipline and swings at everything. Every scouting report would have told you the Yankees were going to heave slider after slider at him. Why, then, is it a bad thing that he swung at a slider that happened to be a strike? If he doesn’t swing there, he’s going to see out of the zone sliders that you admit he will swing at anyway.
Blood has been shed, Jerry.
by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just gonna cut this one off at the roots
and assume that Larry was talking about people who saw Fields becoming a .290 hitter
by onthemark12 on Apr 23, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or you assume that i sometimes forget where i'm discussing and to whom
and i assume, often wrongly, that certain things are implied. fields’ expected batting average last year was right around .260. you’ll get variance around batting average to one degree or another so he could hit .240 or .280 or whatever. but his “true” level is probably around that .260 mark. bobby’s right that i didn’t make that clear, certainly with the audience i was posting to. the oft used statement regarding assuming is apropos here.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not new
But never good to see that nothing has changed for the better. I’d have hoped in his second year Poreda would start showing something with that slider. Fields.. I don’t think he’ll ever hit over .260 – .270 after what we keep hearing but would still like to see him at least makes some strides to make me think otherwise.
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glass half full
Upside: Jose pitched well for Jose and the offense continues to show they can be in most games even when down a few runs. And…Jeter 0-5…hah!
Downside: Juan will never be any better offensively than he is now so we better get used to it, stranding many guys on base will get you every time and the bullpen is going to have an off night every once in awhile – pretty easy to do against the Spanks.
Bottomline: I still hate the Yankees and who is this monster named Joba? – Jeeeez!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
by tailgater on Apr 23, 2008 12:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
one less dumb GM to fleece
bye bye wayne, we’ll miss you.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/04/23/krivsky.fired.ap/index.html
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 1:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
looking back on his acquisitions
i shouldn’t be so hard on wayne. he wasn’t the greatest but he probably wasn’t dumb, either.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd agree
He had that trade with the Nats and some pointless stuff like acquiring Castro. But he picked up Hamilton and traded him for something more useful for the team. He held onto Cueto and Bruce. He wasn’t dumb—he was alright overall.
by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd love to grab him and stash him in the minors
or, fuck it, why not on the bench. we could use a real bat on the bench, as illustrated last night. probably pie in the sky but whatever.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So would I...
Even though he is a man without a position, I think his bat is underrated.
by SSH2005 on Apr 23, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been talked about around here before...
but here’s another one of those freely available 1B/DH types who - if given a legit chance - could probably be anywhere from average to a bit better than average. I don’t know where Johnson lies on that spectrum - he’s already 28 and has only been a league average hitter in his (sporadic) 1000 at-bats during the season - but it’s interesting nonetheless. Wouldn’t the Yankees be a good spot for Johnson? Or - more obviously - the Giants? Sabean should be punched in the groin if he’s given a shot to pick up Johnson and passes.
by CWSKeith on Apr 23, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sabean seems to have already had the chance once
according to the As beat writer and whiffed. but, yes, this is exactly the player a horrid team should be going after – cheap, no risk, and all upside.
in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.
by larry on Apr 23, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have Morgan Ensberg already...
but I would dump him and pick up a younger Dan Johnson.
by SSH2005 on Apr 23, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What to do with 10,000 Frank Thomas Bobbleheads?
In case you were wondering about the May 25 Frank Thomas Bobblehard Night that has been cancelled (from the Canadian Press, eh?)...
“The Blue Jays are donating the Frank Thomas bobbleheads that were to be given to fans May 25 to their Jays Care Foundation. The team’s charity will auction off some and give away the others.”
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
by tailgater on Apr 23, 2008 1:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping to score a couple through
the Doug and Bob McKenzie Foundation, eh?
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
by tailgater on Apr 23, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
coo-roo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo-coo
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
by Chiburb on Apr 23, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Frank Thomas Bobblehead Night
has been replaced with “Back Bacon and Molson’s” Night.
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
by tailgater on Apr 23, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hoser
"Lipstick traces on cigarettes can get you in trouble or remind you of the wonders of the night before."
by Chiburb on Apr 23, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Link
Was there a link for this auction? I’d like to get my hands on at least one of those.
by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably here at some point...
http://bluejays.auction.mlb.com/
Currently, you can bid on a Royce Clayton game-worn jersey for…are you ready? $250…ha, ha, ha!
"We're gonna bring it all day, everyday...we're gonna keep grinding it out." - Nick Swisher (4/1/08)
by tailgater on Apr 23, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Royce Clayton bat too - like new, never hit a ball
''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''
by ChicagoPete on Apr 23, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Inge still playing in that lineup?
dude, that was totally not swish you saw on rush street last night. swish was at home playing xbox.
by colintj on Apr 23, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll probably...
see time in center field.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also...
the backup catcher, I believe.
by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have liked to have seen ozzie take out jose after 6
it may have made a difference, or not
anyway, let’s get ‘em today!
by The Wizard on Apr 23, 2008 2:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I see the board is in rare form today
Miss anything? Oh yeah. Hell yeah Uribe should have swung.
by Tdogg on Apr 23, 2008 2:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he should
have taken a friggin pitch. In fact he should have taken 3 pitches and leaned into each of em’.
"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."
by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miguel Cabrera moving to 1B...
The Tigers announced that Miguel Cabrera will begin playing first base on a regular basis, with Carlos Guillen moving to third.
If they weren’t trying to sign Cabrera to a long-term deal, there’s a good chance they would have arranged it this way in the first place. Now that Cabrera is signed for eight years, he won’t have to worry about a switch diminishing his value. As much of a liability as he was at third, he should prove to be quite a bit more valuable to the Tigers at first base. Fantasy leaguers, though, will be upset the team didn’t wait another week to make the switch. He’s played only 14 games at third, making it unlikely that he’ll qualify there next year in most leagues.
by SSH2005 on Apr 23, 2008 2:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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