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Don't Tell Me, Bullpen Again

Thecheatsmoking_tiny by The Cheat on in Recaps

There probably would have been a lot of angst following Tuesday's loss to the Yankees would the bullpen had been able to keep the game close in the late innings. I'd argue that angst would be misplaced, and instead should (theoretically) have been directed squarely at the offense unable to put together the big inning.

The White Sox had what looked to be a big scoring opportunities in the 5th, 6th and 7th innings, but could only net 2 runs total in those three frames. Jermaine Dye had a particularly tough day at the plate, stranding 6 runners and striking out twice in key situations to dampen Sox rallies. And when your hopes are riding on Juan Uribe at the plate, well, you don't have much hope at all.

Trying to find some positives in the breezy three hour, forty-four minute game...

  • Jose Contreras looked pretty good. He threw over the top for much of the game, though I assume that had more to do with the general left-handedness of the Yankees lineup more than anything else. Still, his velocity is better than last year, and he looks like a guy who can at least keep the Sox in the game every 5th day.

  • The Sox offense had a productive game against Wang. It just didn't result in--how do I put this--runs. They left a baker's dozen stranded on the basepaths tonight.
  • With his second late-inning, bases clearing (in a bad way) outing in a White Sox uniform, Octavio Dotel probably won't be getting any high-leverage innings for a while.
  • It was almost fun to watch Bobby Jenks pitch again... Then I realized it was Joba Chamberlain. I'm sure Bobby's just saving his heat for the playoffs.
  • The Sox gave up 5 homers in their first 160+ innings pitched. In the 9 innings since an unnamed poster boastfully claimed the Sox have "some of the nastiest pitches" in baseball, they've given up 3 more. Coincidence? I think not.
  • We're due to have a small, two hour (hopefully shorter) downtime on the site tonight, so don't freak out. We should be back to normal in the overnight hours.

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Call me crazy

But I find it hard to fault the offense tonight. Five runs isn’t bad. The massive runner stranding was bad, but I think that just happens sometimes. They had some bad at-bats and Joba Chamberlain is tough (if only the Sox had drafted Joba….sigh). The number of baserunners was great and if the Sox continue to do that I won’t worry about the offense.

The bullpen is a concern. They don’t have the peripherals that the offense does. Dotel is a key guy—I think Marmol and Zumaya have shown that a lock-down “middle relief” guy is very valuable (they come on with runners on base while closers start an inning). If Dotel and Mac continue to pitch lousily, I don’t see anyone to fill that role effectively in the organization.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 12:02 AM CDT   0 recs

The bullpen sucked implicitly

That was more or less a preemptive against the second guessing that Ozzie was sure to receive… The offense was at-fault for tonight’s loss, not when 9 runs are allowed, but there should have been 6+ runs on the board by the end of the 7th, and then Ozzie is using a whole different part of the bullpen (Linebrink, Jenks)

As for a lockdown middle of the bullpen guy within the organization - there is that one guy, who, you know, did just that for the last 6 weeks of the season last year - But he’s off the roster, and that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 12:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

was = wasn't

more drinking

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 12:42 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought of "The Man Who Wasn't Nick Magic" as well

But even though I think he’s a useful big league reliever I’m not sure that his platoon splits make him th guy I’d really want. If he was used like Dotel last night, the same thing likely happens. He should be on the roster though.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 8:24 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

So far...

in Triple A lefthanders are oh for 9, right handers are oh for 8. In spring training lefthanders were around 4 for 20. Exactly what platoon splits are you talking about?

by sylsouthbb on Apr 23, 2008 9:02 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm gonna go ahead and guess this one

vs LHB .533/.632/.733

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=wasseeh01&year=2007

did i get it right? what do i win?

bobby abreu doesn’t play for scranton.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 9:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

here's some second-guessing

when i saw who was warming up in the pen, i found it odd that ozzie showed so much respect to damon that he brought in a lefty for him. perhaps this was just my perception of how the game was going to go (i.e., sox weren’t going to get two outs before abreu came to bat) but i would have just brought in dotel for damon and jeter and then gone to logan for abreu. orthodox thinking,of course, says play for the two outs on the next two batters and then worry so i guess my hindsight is just that. dotel v. abreu is not a match-up you want occurring in a high leverage situation.

but, yeah, the offense was at fault for this one. yeah, sometimes the hits don’t come. but that doesn’t mean they weren’t the ones to primarily point the finger towards. twenty baserunners or whatever it was should not equal 5 runs.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 8:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Offense not to blame?

Lot of hits. Very few when it mattered. One Sox run was walked in. Another came in slop time. So yes, the offense was to blame, especially when URIBE gets two RBI! What was the final tally for the Sox hitters with RISP? At one point, I had them at 2 for 11.

...and on my death bed, I will receive total consciousness. So I got that going for me, which is nice.

by thekever on Apr 23, 2008 8:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

We're simply going to disagree

But there will be nights when key hits don’t happen. Hitting is hard. Especially against Joba from the right side. The Sox had some bad at-bats but the scored enough to win cause they got loads of people on base.

In contrast, the bullpen gave up 7 runs in 3 innings of work when any semi-competent group would have given up 2 runs maximum.

by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 8:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The bullpen needs to deliever,

but I blame the O last night. The Sox should have at least had 6-7 runs last night by the 6th inning. They had Wang on the ropes quite a few times, and couldn’t break it open. The game would have been a lot different, and managed different if the O could have done anything.

by Tony82087 on Apr 23, 2008 9:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I would say...

the Sox had an extremely high number of really good at-bats against really, really good pitching to go along with a few bad at bats. I’ll take that if we can get it every night. You’re right. The “clutch” hits will come.

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 10:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Man this team is really starting to slide

I mean, we’re losing games that MLB doesn’t even have scheduled.

by BustedFlush on Apr 23, 2008 12:36 AM CDT   0 recs

So we have some Columbian Fued issues again...

I’ve been drinking since noon. Shoot me.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 12:41 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

we keep playing like that

and I’m going to subscribe to that MO

by BustedFlush on Apr 23, 2008 10:13 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

posted this in what appears to be a dead gamethread, so here it is again

one thing this game did make me realize is that all the hitters on our bench are essentially worthless. when uribe came up with the bases loaded my first reaction was "you can’t let him bat here," and then i thought about it for a second, and realized that hall, anderson, and ramirez all would’ve been woefully overmatched (in all fairness, most bench hitters would be against chamberlain), and pablo might’ve been a better choice than uribe because he makes contact, but not so overwhelmingly that leaving juan in there was indefensible. not having a lefty isn’t great either.

i guess what i’m saying, crazy as it may sound, is that i miss rob mackowiak. he’s just rotting on the bench in washington, maybe we can get him back! sadly, i’m only half kidding. i’m sure someone will explain to me that even a great lefty bench hitter is only likely be worth 1 win over the course of the season, but i’d still feel better about it.

by Ryno on Apr 23, 2008 12:48 AM CDT   0 recs

You could move AJ down in the order

It’s happened a few times now that a tough RHP comes in from the bullpen against our 7,8,9 hitters and it’s lights out. Since there’s no LHB on the bench, if you bat AJ 8th it breaks up that string of RHBs. But then you’d have PK, JD, Crede and Quentin bunched up in the middle, so you’re screwed there. It definitely would be helpful to have a respectable LHB on the bench.

''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''

by ChicagoPete on Apr 23, 2008 7:23 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bourbon

Being old, I drink gin and bourbon instead of vodka and scotch.

Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote

by Chiburb on Apr 23, 2008 8:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Better late than never

Good, then I chose correctly – Wild Turkey, splash of branch water. You know why I only drink branch water Chiburb? POE, Purity of Essence.

''It's a grinder-type attitude, energetic attitude, confident-type attitude, and if it grinds on some people, then I need to know who those people are so we can move them on''

by ChicagoPete on Apr 23, 2008 3:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Good managers don't lose games like yesterday's

I just did not understand why Contreras had to pitch in the 7th inning. “I trust my men”... Laughable. Albeit Yankees only had scored 2 runs against him, it’s was blatantly clear he was not pitching, but “surviving.” Come on, man. It’s the Yankees the team you’re facing, and the ballpark was full… being humble sometimes pays.

He dominated Giambi? Good… but Giambi already had a HR off him. Risky. Why did you still insist with Contreras? The walk that followed clearly proved that the night had been unneccesarily extended for the Cuban hurler. Man, you’re winning for the minimum! You have to be careful! Bringing Logan just a batter later resulted harmful. Logan was the man for that 7th inning. And look the mess that inning turned into.

2-0 is the more dangerous pitch count in baseball. A mound visit was pertinent.. Did you notice who was batting? Bob Abreu. Bases loaded. You noticed, right? You noticed that Dotel is not for these moments, right? Dotel 6.05. Thornton 5.14. Thornton has a very good fastball… but that’s all… he has to improve his other pitches if he aspires to be dominant.

What a shame.

by Venezolano on Apr 23, 2008 8:12 AM CDT   0 recs

Couple Things

1. Bullpen looks shoddy again.
2. Stranding 13 runners will not win you many ballgames.
3. Has Dotel lost it?
4. Contreras pitched good enough to win.
5. Konerko swung the bat well yesterday – finally.
6. Bases loaded, Uribe batting – pops up on first pitch. Same ole’ Profundo.
7. Big game tonight – Vasquez needs to set the tone early.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 8:22 AM CDT   0 recs

Good summary, Bobby.

Is Dotel this years MacDougal?

...and on my death bed, I will receive total consciousness. So I got that going for me, which is nice.

by thekever on Apr 23, 2008 9:06 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

McaDougal is still this years MacDougal

Dotel is just putting pressure on him to achieve a new level of dis-stress

by Brush Back on Apr 23, 2008 9:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

primer

dotel is last year’s macdougal. macdougal is this year’s 2010 linebrink. linebrink is 2005 politte. jenks is 2006 jenks. logan is 2004 marte. thornton is 2002 wunsch. and masset, of course, remains masset. because masset is always here and always the same.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 10:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

WU is right

you ARE on a roll lately. nice one.

Skanberg, if I wanted to hear your opinion, I would have brainwashed you by now-
Don Guillote

by Chiburb on Apr 23, 2008 10:14 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bet you can't tell me what

I am having for lunch today?

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 10:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

AHHHH SHIT!

“The Sox gave up 5 homers in their first 160+ innings pitched. In the 9 innings since an unnamed poster boastfully claimed the Sox have “some of the nastiest pitches” in baseball, they’ve given up 3 more. Coincidence? I think not.” Yeah it’s my fault that our pitchers gave up all those taters last night. I should have kept my mouth shut. Although I did not say anything about Dotel’s pitches ;)

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 9:46 AM CDT   0 recs

Just giving you a hard time

Just so you know. You’re officially on the hook for all the HR for the rest of the season.

AIM: SouthSideCheat

by The Cheat on Apr 23, 2008 2:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I can't wait for tonight's game.

I’m sick of thinking about that goddamn GS. How a leftie isn’t facing Abreu, when one was brought in for Johnny fucking Damn, is mind boggling. There are any number of ways Ozzie could’ve used his bullpen less incompetently.

And then…we have to watch Uribe against Joba with the bases loaded. Can’t look at one freakin’ pitch Juany? How many times have you faced Joba in your career? Oh, that was the first time?

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 10:27 AM CDT   0 recs

because taking pitches is always a good thing, right?

i would have been looking first pitch slider, too. he got it. just couldn’t do anything with it. weird, huh, that happening with a good pitcher against a guy who would obviously be overmatched by joba. that was a pitch right down the gut of the plate, belt-high (obviously with movement, so not a cookie). that’s probably the best pitch he’d see in an at bat.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 10:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You're taught in little league

When you are facing a new pitcher with the game on the line you ALWAYS take a pitch.

1. You hope to see something that helps you out later in the at bat.
2. You hope to get ahead in the count (especially with the bases loaded)

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 10:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

This game was not uribe's fault

we had the lead late and gave it up. simple as that.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 10:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Never said it was

But, the game should have been put away before the bullpen imploded.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 10:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Well why get on him for swinging on the first pitch

the book on some pitchers is to hack away because they throw first pitch strikes.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 11:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

In this case,

I’M not sure about anything. I was OK WITH WHAT oZZIE did with the pitching/matchups….although I did question some….in the end, we need to avoid Abreu….he kills us….and, that trumps the handedness of the pitcher , at least in this instance. I don’t know

by dantesox on Apr 23, 2008 1:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you're also taught (correctly) in little league

that strikeouts are bad. major league ain’t little league. different game.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Time and Time

again Juan goes up there swinging for the fences on the first pitch. How often has that worked? I am not blaming the loss on him – but chr*st – take a pitch. You suck as a hitter so why not work the count – ESPECIALLY WITH THE BASES LOADED and a young pitcher on the mound.

IT JUST BAFFLES ME.

"Jenks, who was never afraid to say "no" to a hamburger..."

by BobbySouthSide on Apr 23, 2008 11:19 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lol, boy, this is amusing

guys who suck at hitting and are obviously overmatched should go up there looking for a pitch and swing at that pitch if they get it. work the count? again, this ain’t little league. this is juan uribe facing joba chamberlain. ever heard of him? strikes out a lot of guys, doesn’t walk a lot of guys? work the count. you hear that one from your dad in third grade? please. you don’t get to work the count against guys like chamberlain when you’re juan uribe. guess where uribe would have been if he didn’t swing at that first pitch? behind in the count. against joba chamberlain. exactly where a piss poor hitter wants to be against him.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

See: PK Game 2 '05 WS

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wrong place. :(

Supposed to be under WU.

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's also amusing

that everybody is shitting on uribe for hacking at a strike on the first pitch with the bases loaded but nobody is railing about quentin’s bases loaded whiff two batters earlier. the explanation is the same, though…it’s joba freaking chamberlain, a/k/a exhibit one to demonstrate why you have to get your runs when you can against the wangs, bruneys, and mussinas of the yankees.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 11:29 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

uh huh

but quentin worked the count. you know, took a pitch on his way to not hitting the ball.

the mentality on this board is exactly what people keep citing to: little league. i.e., hope the guy with the nasty stuff you can’t hit will walk you.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:33 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I am admittedly just annoyed/aggrivated with the outcome...

but it’s freakin’ URIBE who’s always annoying/aggrivating at the plate. He’s not exactly the Pitch Selection Master you’re making him out to be for swing at that.

Out-underacheiving the other guy.

by defensive indifference on Apr 23, 2008 11:44 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

who said he was a pitch selection master?

juan was using his rep in the AB. they knew he would probably swing. so they threw a slider. juan was waiting for it. he got overmatched. c’est la vie. i give the man credit for doing what he could do against probably one of the toughest relievers out there right now. skewering uribe for every blessed thing is idiotic and deserves to be called out. if people want to whine about it, take it someplace else. i’m sure people whined about it no end on the gamethread. it’s twelve hours later. time to use one’s head.

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 11:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not even.

cq swung at a slider out of the zone for strike one (what???? he swung at the first pitch against, you know, a guy he’d never faced before? burn him at the stake!), took a slider in the dirt for a ball, then whiffed at a fastball for strike two and struck out on another slider out of the zone.

better hitter, better situation (only one out…can look to do less), and still shit result.

what people need to realize is that chamberlain is one of those guys who doesn’t need to mess around with the uribes, and to a lesser extent the quentins, of the world. his stuff is good enough that he can throw a first-pitch (or second, third, fourth, and so on for that matter) slider for a strike to uribe and win that battle nearly every time even if uribe knows it’s coming.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 11:45 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Its not that easy to hit wang

we were fortunate enough to not get him on his A game. The point is we need to hold leads no matter if we get insurance runs or not. I liked putting boone out there with 2 men on base, it didn’t work this time. Shit happens another shitty loss. I am more worried about Buehrle struggling early. He has got to stop letting games get out of hand. If there is an error he is supposed to get hitters to ground into double plays. He has not done that. Unless he starts pitching we are not a good enough team to overcome these (occasional) late inning gaffes when he is responsible for like 3 or 4 of our losses.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 11:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

not sure what you're talking about.

in his first (and by far worst) game, he ended up with a no decision. dotel blew that one, too. in his second game, he gave up 2 runs in 7 innings and got a win. in his third start, he got saddled with a loss despite giving up only 2 runs in 7 innings. the last game against tampa bay he gave up a bunch of seeing-eye singles after the botched rundown. where do you come up with him being responsible for three or four losses?

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 12:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

sonnanstined.

remember also that the sox scored ZERO runs in his last start (and only 1 the start before). clearly it’s all on buehrle.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

My point is

he has not looked good no matter what his record is. he got a lucky no decision. we lost. 2nd game he won…ok. 3rd game he couldn’t hold the lead. 4th game no run support. He is supposed to be the ace and overcome that shit. that’s all im saying.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 12:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

do you make this stuff up?

game one. everybody knows he had a terrible outing. but when the sox come back to tie up the game, it isn’t buehrle’s fault that dotel much later loads the bases and then gives up a bases-clearing double.

game two we agree on. he pitched well and the sox won.

game three. he couldn’t hold the lead? what lead? the white sox never had the lead. they were down 2-0 before getting one measly run off the great greg smith in the sixth.

game four. yeah, ZERO run support. no runners past second base. no way no how that can loss be put on him.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 12:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I love Buehrle

The game he won, he was letting too many batters reach base, he did a good job holding them but still. Game 3 he was out dueled by the guy… not all his fault obviously but they both started with a tied game. I guess my real point is we need him to set the tone… I have seen him get rattled by errors which is unusual for him. My point is I was hoping he would win 20 games this year… he still might and I know it’s not all his fault but to my point in spring training and you alluded to it to, he falls behind early in games which puts more pressure on the offense and that is why he doesn’t get the run support he deserves.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 1:13 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

where to begin.

“The game he won, he was letting too many batters reach base, he did a good job holding them but still.”

In that game, he let 9 men reach base in seven innings for a WHIP of 1.29; his career WHIP is 1.27.

“Game 3 he was out dueled by the guy… not all his fault obviously but they both started with a tied game.”

This is like saying that Eli Manning outdueled Tom Brady in the Super Bowl even though they were never on the field at the same time. Bottom line is that a starter who gives up 2 runs in 7 innings is not to blame for that loss, regardless of when the runs came in the game.

“I guess my real point is we need him to set the tone… I have seen him get rattled by errors which is unusual for him.”

Since when is it unusual for him…that’s been a running joke here for the last two years.

“My point is I was hoping he would win 20 games this year… he still might and I know it’s not all his fault but to my point in spring training and you alluded to it to, he falls behind early in games which puts more pressure on the offense and that is why he doesn’t get the run support he deserves.”

You can hope all you want that he wins 20 games. But (a) wins aren’t a very effective tool in gauging a pitcher’s performance and (b) since he’s won more than 16 games only once, six years ago, your hope appears to be not much more than hope. With regard to falling behind early, it sure didn’t seem to stop the Sox offense on opening day, and the hitters did zip against Greg Smith and Andy Sonnanstine. Didn’t matter what the score was.

Did you realize if you take away the opening day game, Buehrle has a 3.42 ERA in 21 innings. Granted his WHIP is still high, but his performance the last three games has not been bad.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 1:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Buehrle

Is not a strike out pitcher, for the last 7 years he’s let guys get on his base. He’s a guy who relies on his defense, not sure where you’ve been, but he’s a guy who throws strikes, and let’s his defense play for him. This is why he has trouble when someone makes an error.

He isn’t letting too many hitters on base, he always let’s hitters on base. Not every pitcher wins by getting strike outs. He will always give up hits, I’m not sure if you’ve never paid attention before or just don’t know about baseball.

by Grinder in Training on Apr 23, 2008 1:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Really?

He is not a strike out pitcher? and all this time…. I really don’t feel like arguing about this. He needs to step it up.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 2:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How is he supposed to...

“step it up”? He’s doing the same thing he always has – the defense is letting him down. Period.

by The Jerry Royster Experience on Apr 23, 2008 2:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

don't worry. you haven't argued yet.

all you’ve done is made up or distorted facts and compared your hopes for buehrle’s 2008 performance, which aren’t based on any historical data, to his current performance which, aside from game one, has not been much different from his career performance.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 2:33 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Thats fine

Toonder… I have higher expectations of Buehrle. If you want to be satisfied and say he is what he is that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Myself on the other hand feels that he should be able to take the next step with the stuff he has. Greg Maddox dominated being a soft thrower with control.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 2:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I just see

a lack of focus… and I heard a rumor that he pitches so fast because he’s hung over and can only pitch hung over. anyone else hear this?

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 2:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

You just see a lack of focus

is that sort of like Brian Anderson being a cocky asshole for walking to home plate too ‘confidently’?

by CWSKeith on Apr 23, 2008 3:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

aside from the first game,

he’s pretty much pitched the same way his entire career. guess he’s NEVER been focused.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Brian's problem

is that he is unable to pick up the spin on pitches.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 3:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

time for lasik

in their respective baseball purgatories, both frank thomas and jerry owens loudly whine.

by larry on Apr 23, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

so your expectations of buehrle

are based on the performance of one of the best pitchers in the history of baseball, rather than on how buehrle has actually performed up to his age 29 season?

maddux didn’t start dominating hitters at age 29; he’d already won three cy youngs by that point.

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:08 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and I would rebuttle

that if Buehrle was more focused he may have won 1 by now.

by Where Triples Go to Die on Apr 23, 2008 3:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sweet Molly

How can you look at Buehrle’s stuff and say he should have gotten more out of his ability than he has? How?

by hitlesswonder on Apr 23, 2008 3:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

what, you don't see a left-handed

maddux when you watch buehrle pitch?

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

for the sake of argument,

let’s say you’re right and buehrle has never been focused. what made you think he suddenly would get focused after 8 and a half seasons and win 20 games?

Blood has been shed, Jerry.

by Toonderstrook on Apr 23, 2008 3:23 PM C